The Virtues finished....when?

[Victoria Navarre]

I was checking out the levels of virtues I have been working up. Compassion,Honor,Sacrifice,Valor,and Justice are all available for us to work up. How about the rest of them? Humility is said to be earned by helping new players but the virtue remains "undefined". If I was rewarded virtue gains for each time I helped a new player with anything my character would be "Knight of Humility" ten times over,as would many,many others that have played here as well.

So please Dev's...please finish the virtues.I wouldn't care at all if there was any special bonus ability or anything for getting to knight level.Just make all the virtues available.Please?

 

[Nexus]

I was checking out the levels of virtues I have been working up. Compassion,Honor,Sacrifice,Valor,and Justice are all available for us to work up. How about the rest of them? Humility is said to be earned by helping new players but the virtue remains "undefined". If I was rewarded virtue gains for each time I helped a new player with anything my character would be "Knight of Humility" ten times over,as would many,many others that have played here as well.

So please Dev's...please finish the virtues.I wouldn't care at all if there was any special bonus ability or anything for getting to knight level.Just make all the virtues available.Please?

Well we're averaging about 2.5 years per virtue so to get out the last 3? I'd say sometime around 2016

 

[MalagAste]

Right.

I agree I would like to see them finished.

 

[Viper09]

Several times I myself have asked this question. Several times there was never an answer.

 

[LordDrago]

I think finishing the virtues would be Dev time well spent.

 

[Otis Firefly]

they are aware of the problem and have been working on a solution that cannot be revealed at this time

 

[Kiminality]

As I recall, there were no immediate plans to finish the virtues.

To say that the original designs were incomplete would be something of an understatement.
The virtues were more of a "cool idea" and the devs at the time began implementing them without any solid designs in place. This far down the line, the devs would be better off just starting from scratch on the virtue system.

 

[Viper09]

I remember they had some good ideas for the whole system. One thing I remember them talking about is that when someone became a "knight" of all virtues the would have a title of "knight of the virtues."

 

[Victoria Navarre]

I remember they had some good ideas for the whole system. One thing I remember them talking about is that when someone became a "knight" of all virtues the would have a title of "knight of the virtues."

That would be awsome to be able to have that as an overhead title.

 

[Dryzzid of Atlantic]

This far down the line, the devs would be better off just starting from scratch on the virtue system.

I somewhat agree with this statement. I say somewhat because there are some aspects of the virtue system that I like. I speak of Compassion and Sacrifice. I like those virtues because they involve a character increasing it's personal ability through dedication to the Virtues. I know, I know, maybe I'm putting more thought into it than I should. Self-rezzing three times a week is nice, and if you hunt in packs, rezzing your guildmates at 80% of their health can be helpful too.

However, I never liked that 2 of the virtues were completely attributed to the champ spawn system. Now, don't get me wrong. I like WHAT those virtues do. The justice protection is awesome for the extra scrolls and I wouldn't want to take those away from the champ spawn guilds. As well as the ability to start up the champ spawns. I just never felt that they should have been tied to the virtues. And they certainly don't result in any increase of personal ability. Valor and Justice are too tied in with game mechanics and not the lore of the Ultima virtues.

I think Honor SORT OF ties in with the original intention. You fight honorably, thus showing a commitment to the Virtue of Honor, and you are granted extra damage and luck. What I don't like about Honor is how it is so closely tied into the Bushido skill and the idea of "Samurai's Honor". The Code of Bushido is significantly different from the idea of Ultima's Honor Virtue, which is derived from the Principles of Courage and Truth.

"Honor is Courage to seek and uphold the Truth."

Now that being said, I don't think we will see a complete overhaul because that would involve finding a way to rename and reimplement the current Justice, Valor, and Honor game mechanics, on top of coming up with all new mechanics for all 8 virtues.

I should also say that I do not blame the current Developer Team for our lack of a completed Virtue system. I agree with the first part of your post.. the Virtue system was an idea by Devs who are long gone. While I feel the same sentiment as many do, and want to see a completed system, I also understand the current Dev Team's desires to create and work on their own stuff.

 

[Specialshoes]

The whole virtue system would be great to get in game. It has been so long since a developer has even acknowledged it I would even appreciate the standard "lip service"

 

[Trebr Drab]

They should have never started on this. The Virtues are not a game system.
This does UO a very big disservice.

 

[SchezwanBeefy]

They should have never started on this. The Virtues are not a game system.
This does UO a very big disservice.

How so? I don't see how this is true.

 

[Trebr Drab]

They should have never started on this. The Virtues are not a game system.
This does UO a very big disservice.

How so? I don't see how this is true.

Well, you have to look at the overall picture to see it. Most still don't because these games are "just games" and not worlds to them. That's ok, except for us roleplayers who have less place in MMOs anymore.

But it centers around "worldly" vs. "gamey". And taking something that should be very deep in a roleplaying game and making it a simple system makes it far less roleplaying and much more gamey. So you have some characters who are far from virtuous gaining high rank in the Virtues. It just smacks more of Blackthorn's Virtues than LB's. Which actually would be ok in a roleplay sense, if Blackthorn were in charge.

Hmm, a case could actually be made that way with some other force. I think I could do this.

 

[Specialshoes]

Well, you have to look at the overall picture to see it. Most still don't because these games are "just games" and not worlds to them. That's ok, except for us roleplayers who have less place in MMOs anymore.

But it centers around "worldly" vs. "gamey". And taking something that should be very deep in a roleplaying game and making it a simple system makes it far less roleplaying and much more gamey. So you have some characters who are far from virtuous gaining high rank in the Virtues. It just smacks more of Blackthorn's Virtues than LB's. Which actually would be ok in a roleplay sense, if Blackthorn were in charge.

Hmm, a case could actually be made that way with some other force. I think I could do this.

I was waiting for your response waiting to disagree with you. But uhhh yeah...wow. I am a little turned around.

I guess what I wanted to say would be that yeah they need to be restarted from scratch. Not entirely done away with or not started at all.

I would definitely like to see them re-done all over with an eye toward a little more role play value.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Well, you have to look at the overall picture to see it. Most still don't because these games are "just games" and not worlds to them. That's ok, except for us roleplayers who have less place in MMOs anymore.

But it centers around "worldly" vs. "gamey". And taking something that should be very deep in a roleplaying game and making it a simple system makes it far less roleplaying and much more gamey. So you have some characters who are far from virtuous gaining high rank in the Virtues. It just smacks more of Blackthorn's Virtues than LB's. Which actually would be ok in a roleplay sense, if Blackthorn were in charge.

Hmm, a case could actually be made that way with some other force. I think I could do this.

I was waiting for your response waiting to disagree with you. But uhhh yeah...wow. I am a little turned around.

I guess what I wanted to say would be that yeah they need to be restarted from scratch. Not entirely done away with or not started at all.

I would definitely like to see them re-done all over with an eye toward a little more role play value.

I'm not sure if you followed me or not, so I'll say a little more.

Doing a Virtue system at all gives it a "letter of the Law" meaning.
So a character that ranks high in Compassion, because he/she has followed that letter spelled out in that law, yet goes out and slays a fort full of Orcs, is that character truly compassionate?
This is how it's like Blackthorn's version of the Virtues. And it undermines the Virtues themselves. So if it's done at all, to be within roleplay (as well as to have solid meaning to a "worldly" game), it would have to be done with the undermining of the Virtues as part of the plan. Either intended or not, from some force or power in the world of Sosaria in either case.

Casca would have been great for this. The FOA would have been great for this. There's many forces in the lore of this game that could be behind it.

But if that's the way of it (and it's almost certainly not at this point but could be evolved), where does it go? Do players at some point lose their gained rankings and powers? As a roleplayer, I'd be all for the possibility, but expect some battle of some sort, some waging of some war or struggle, to see if the truly Virtuous wins out over this false Virtue by decree.

However, how many players playing a gamey game would accept that, accept their own personal loss?

 

[Specialshoes]

I'm not sure if you followed me or not, so I'll say a little more.

Doing a Virtue system at all gives it a "letter of the Law" meaning.
So a character that ranks high in Compassion, because he/she has followed that letter spelled out in that law, yet goes out and slays a fort full of Orcs, is that character truly compassionate?
This is how it's like Blackthorn's version of the Virtues. And it undermines the Virtues themselves. So if it's done at all, to be within roleplay (as well as to have solid meaning to a "worldly" game), it would have to be done with the undermining of the Virtues as part of the plan. Either intended or not, from some force or power in the world of Sosaria in either case.

Casca would have been great for this. The FOA would have been great for this. There's many forces in the lore of this game that could be behind it.

But if that's the way of it (and it's almost certainly not at this point but could be evolved), where does it go? Do players at some point lose their gained rankings and powers? As a roleplayer, I'd be all for the possibility, but expect some battle of some sort, some waging of some war or struggle, to see if the truly Virtuous wins out over this false Virtue by decree.

However, how many players playing a gamey game would accept that, accept their own personal loss?

I quite understood your original meaning. Unfortunately I am at work and don't really want to be all that literate with my thoughts.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I quite understood your original meaning. Unfortunately I am at work and don't really want to be all that literate with my thoughts.

Heh, ok.

 

[Lord Chaos]

They need to redo it so it doesn't decay over time, only go down on usage. Its annoying as hell to take a break and then come back and your virtues are all 0 again.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

This far down the line, the devs would be better off just starting from scratch on the virtue system.

I agree with this statement... ditch the surrent system and rebuild from scratch using the quest system, the mantras at the shrines, and other options based on the virtue involved. The Humilty cloak quest would have been a good start.

 

[the 4th man]

I've been playing a long time, and these virtues have yet to be completed.
Why they haven't is a major head scratcher..........wait, no it's not.....
...the devs don't care.

How many of them play UO? How many of those that do, have played as long as some of us?? You get the picture. Alot of us remember the console games, put out by Pony Canyon.....It was all about virtues, Ultima was a Virtue game.

Perhaps, but doubtful, a dev, before entering the creative realm of a game, needs to learn the history of the game, what it's all about.

Nahhhh, that makes too much sense.

As far as killing a fort full of Orcs and not having Compassion, well, it all depends on if your an orc doing the slaughtering or a human. That's a no brainer.

Devs........educate yourselves and stop looking at UO as just a paycheck.
Workers like that, I would have canned a long time ago.

later

 

[Trebr Drab]

Devs........educate yourselves and stop looking at UO as just a paycheck.
Workers like that, I would have canned a long time ago.

later

You sir, should speaketh naught of Campassion, for thou knowest naught of it.

 

[Mapper]

Devs........educate yourselves and stop looking at UO as just a paycheck.
Workers like that, I would have canned a long time ago.

later

They can only do what they're told by their boss. Maybe its Cal you should moan to?

 

[Felonious Monk]

I'm not sure if you followed me or not, so I'll say a little more.

Doing a Virtue system at all gives it a "letter of the Law" meaning.
So a character that ranks high in Compassion, because he/she has followed that letter spelled out in that law, yet goes out and slays a fort full of Orcs, is that character truly compassionate?
This is how it's like Blackthorn's version of the Virtues. And it undermines the Virtues themselves. So if it's done at all, to be within roleplay (as well as to have solid meaning to a "worldly" game), it would have to be done with the undermining of the Virtues as part of the plan. Either intended or not, from some force or power in the world of Sosaria in either case.

Casca would have been great for this. The FOA would have been great for this. There's many forces in the lore of this game that could be behind it.

But if that's the way of it (and it's almost certainly not at this point but could be evolved), where does it go? Do players at some point lose their gained rankings and powers? As a roleplayer, I'd be all for the possibility, but expect some battle of some sort, some waging of some war or struggle, to see if the truly Virtuous wins out over this false Virtue by decree.

However, how many players playing a gamey game would accept that, accept their own personal loss?

I quite understood your original meaning. Unfortunately I am at work and don't really want to be all that literate with my thoughts.

Ultima 4......... Thou has lost 1/8. Requiring you to hit the shrine and reacquire through meditation and deed illustrating your understanding and worthiness of said title " Champion of Virtue". I'll bet the intent to install that into UO was there but proved to challenged.
Running from battle would result in virtue loss. U4 was an amazing philosophy. Stealing an item meant losing Honesty.... It was a tightrope to walk and made you think and fear your very choices. Suddenly you were Accountable. Role players dream........