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The results of 25 Level 6 maps on Test Center

W

wrekognize

Guest
I'm rather disappointed in reading the changes. I would have thought there might be at least one unique hard to get item. A powerful artifact or some awesome statuette or decoration of some kind...even if the chances were a 1 in 100. Something.....

I was really looking forward to the changes. I certainly don't forsee myself doing alot of treasure hunting unless someone tells some tales of a unique rare or valuable item of some kind.

Treasure Mapping really shot have the chance of hitting it BIG even it's few and far between. Kinda like playing the lottery but it doesn't look thus far as if anything of that nature was included. :confused:
i agree
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Random response to some issues I saw come up a few times in the responses.

1. Yes, my guildmate soloed the level 6 chests. This by definition means that level 6 maps are still solo-able. However, my guildmate is an extraordinary player, as are all my guildmates actually, so she can do things that most players (including myself certainly) cannot. Now it's not like she's the only good player out there. So some others will also still be able to solo the maps, but it doesn't sound like it's going to be easy.

2. On whether or not the pardons should be discussed in this thread, if I minded that I wouldn't have expressed my own opinions alongside expressing my guildmate's results. I don't see how we can reasonably discuss the t-map changes without also discussing their potential consequences. I find it telling, though, that no one actually objected to the discussion until someone agreed with me!

3. On the substance of the pardons, my original opinion has not changed. Being a murderer should have consequences. When I was in champ spawn guilds I took several counts, and always had to mind how many I carried at any given moment. I don't like the idea of no longer having to worry. For the item to exist at all, it should be much rarer and/or have limited use (once per RL day, for example).

4. On the Imbuing ingredients. I believe she said there were mostly Essences, and she also got Abyssal Cloth once or twice. So we have to assume that you can get pretty much any of the Imbuing ingredients that spawn in the Abyss from a t-map.

5. No ML ingredients that she mentioned. I, for one, don't think this is a terrible idea. Imbued stuff will wear out sooner or later, even if it takes a good long while. ML stuff, by contrast, can last forever unless you screw up. Thus the need for Imbuing ingredients is eternal, and the need for ML ingredients last only as long as all active players does not have ever ML item they need. So, why not keep the ML stuff exclusive to the ML bosses? If she corrects me, realizes that she saw some ML ingredients in there, or does more tests and the results change, I will be sure to correct myself.

6. I think you're all seriously missing the potential for 6-property items.

7. Remember, that at least some of the new Brittle Artifacts, the Shield for example, can be Imbued.

8. As indicated in my original post, the level 6 map artifacts are, indeed, still spawning under the new system.

9. Someone asked for there to be at least one unique or very hard to get item? Remember that the Brittle Artifacts are non-PoF-able, and have low durability. There will be potentially an eternal need for at least some of them.

10. I view these changes as overall positive and have moderate enthusiasm for them. I am looking forward to hiring some t-map hunters to do some maps with my guild.

-Galen's player
 
W

weezer

Guest
Maybe on SP but even on a low population shard like Legends, we still have plenty of people burning their murder counts off in Luna. I'm against the pardons and against murder counts decaying in Trammel.

As a long time red player who plays legends, (three years ago i had 2700+ counts and i havn't checked since 2007) I really don't care about the pardons. I am red for a reason and don't want to be blue again. There are so many adavantages to being red (withers, hail storms, etc hit every in their radius, para fields, etc) it outweighs me even thinking about being blue. The true red players will never use these. The casual person who tries out fel will. I see no reason to keep people in fel and penalize them for trying it out. I do agree there will be some abuse of the system, but it really doesn't matter.

The real issue here some people have already addressed. People fighting in fel are mostly factions now and counts are hard to come by compared to old days. Pvp has changed, blues have changed, reds have changed, and orange is the color to be now. I am of the mind that if people want to play multiple facets so be it. The more people i see everywhere the better. My other hope is that this brings more people to fel to be murderers and try it out. I think the pardons can help with some of this. I remember the first time i took a count back in 2000. I really didn't want it, but then i got 5 more 10 minutes later and never looked back after seeing the fun i was having.

I would be happy if counts were perm. and never went away, but that is my play style. Other people's play style (red, blue orange, or green) have no bearing on what i do so the pardons are fine by me.

Fel is about risk, rewards and fights for me. I don't care who i fight or who attacks me, let's just enjoy fel for what it is.

PS, if i ever got 4k+ pardons, i would turn one of my characters blue for a day just for fun. Then i would go right back to being red and wait another 10 years and do it again.
 

Shelleybean

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
8. As indicated in my original post, the level 6 map artifacts are, indeed, still spawning under the new system.
I don't see this listed in your original post, but I just completed a map on TC before it went down and received an arctic death dealer. :)
 
W

wrekognize

Guest
These pardons will no effect your game play in the slightest, but will tremendously help others, like myself.
If it will tremendously help others and yourself, then it's affecting the game.
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Murder counts essentially have no meaning anymore [...] I'd be willing to bet if UO started out with both trammel and fel in the beginning there would have never been any such thing is murder counts.
Murdering people in UO is a playstyle choice, which, I believe, would have always been punished somehow in order to alert others, due to the karma system. Before champ spawns, the need for murderers was not required. There were very few murderers, and most of them killed others simply to PK. They were perhaps the truest of murderers.

By now, we are sort of, perhaps, numbed by murdering. Since Champion Spawns came out, we have had to use murderers in order to control spawns. Essentially, PvPers have no choice but to murder unless everyone joins a faction; murderers are a necessity of spawn control.

The problem people have now is they equate murdering with PvP. If only everyone had to join a faction :p.

As a personal note, I've burned over 4,000 real hours on counts, so like I said in my first post, I do like the idea of an easier route to burn counts ;P.
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
4. On the Imbuing ingredients. I believe she said there were mostly Essences, and she also got Abyssal Cloth once or twice. So we have to assume that you can get pretty much any of the Imbuing ingredients that spawn in the Abyss from a t-map.

5. No ML ingredients that she mentioned. I, for one, don't think this is a terrible idea. Imbued stuff will wear out sooner or later, even if it takes a good long while. ML stuff, by contrast, can last forever unless you screw up. Thus the need for Imbuing ingredients is eternal, and the need for ML ingredients last only as long as all active players does not have ever ML item they need. So, why not keep the ML stuff exclusive to the ML bosses? If she corrects me, realizes that she saw some ML ingredients in there, or does more tests and the results change, I will be sure to correct myself.

I do not see any difference.

When an imbued item breaks (which will take anyways quite some time...), another one just the same can be crafted to keep going.

And, with a steady source of ingredients making them one after the other after the other after the other seems pretty much like having the same one item for ever...

So, I really do not see a reason for treating imbuing and ML ingredients differently.

Peerless ingredients, IMHO, definately need to also be added as drops to treasure chests, just like imbuing ingredients if not more...
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't see this listed in your original post, but I just completed a map on TC before it went down and received an arctic death dealer. :)
Holy **** it's not!

Sorry.

She specifically mentioned it to me too. I guess the line just didn't surprise the copy, paste, edit process.

:(

Sorry.

-Galen's player
 

Gheed

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
5. No ML ingredients that she mentioned. I, for one, don't think this is a terrible idea. Imbued stuff will wear out sooner or later, even if it takes a good long while. ML stuff, by contrast, can last forever unless you screw up. Thus the need for Imbuing ingredients is eternal, and the need for ML ingredients last only as long as all active players does not have ever ML item they need. So, why not keep the ML stuff exclusive to the ML bosses? If she corrects me, realizes that she saw some ML ingredients in there, or does more tests and the results change, I will be sure to correct myself.


-Galen's player
On this particualr point, Some ML crafted items can be imbued thus making their lifetime finite.
 
G

Gowron

Guest
Quite frankly, popps, your arguments fall way short.

This is a game first and foremost.
As such, nobody needs to play it.
As such, nobody needs to have a particular template.
As such, nobody needs to obtain certain materials.

Fact is, people choose to play it.
As such people choose templates.
As such templates come with strengths and weaknesses.
As such people choose to mitigate weaknesses via items.
As such people choose to obtain items.

NO WHERE IS IT MANDATED THAT ANYBODY HAS TO DO ANYTHING.

If I go to Felucca, it is because I CHOSE to.
If I go to a Champ Spawn, it is because I CHOSE to.
As I CHOSE to go to Felucca and a Champ Spawn, I acknowledge that I have taken certain risks.
If I am raided, so be it. I lose more than I win by far, but I HAVE FUN in the challenge.

That is all. I no longer have the desire to entertain bedwetters and whiners.
Just play the damn game and acknowledge that choices have consequences. If you can get through that in a game, then real life won't be such a difficulty.
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
On this particualr point, Some ML crafted items can be imbued thus making their lifetime finite.
Good point!

I had forgotten about that.

I remember seeing some really cool Imbued Overseer Sundered Blades. Though that particular item, I suppose, isn't Imbuable anymore as it may've been considered an artifact?

-Galen's player
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I wonder if the real issue against the pardons is that many of those who can't really compete in PvP and stumble into fel on a rare occasion, or just scared of the place, feel that murder counts are their only real way to "get back" at the person who pk's them? The only justice they can get?
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I wonder if the real issue against the pardons is that many of those who can't really compete in PvP and stumble into fel on a rare occasion, or just scared of the place, feel that murder counts are their only real way to "get back" at the person who pk's them? The only justice they can get?
If I go to Fel, I run the risk of getting PKed. (I'm in Factions, so I run risks from oranges, their allied "hero reds," and their blue allies to boot. But for most people, we'll say the risk comes from reds, specifically.)

If I PK too many people in the specified period of time, I find myself restricted to the facet you can PK people more-or-less freely in.

If you do not wish to run the risk of being PKed, do not go to Fel. If you do not wish to run the risk of going red, do not PK blues in Fel.

Both are roughly equivalent, roughly corresponding risks.

If the pardons spawn too frequently, they effectively take away risks for one and not for the other.

Now, to closely paraphrase your post, I wonder if the real issue for the pardons is that many of those who PK a lot can't really compete in PvP outside of ganks and miner killings, and are scared of being red?

I had not planned on arguing this point at all.....Until I realized how common the pardons were likely to be. Spawning at that rate, they become not a means to sidestep the occasional murder count from killing a blue who's attacking your Faction mates, or who is attempting to "jump" your champ spawn. Rather, they become a means of ducking the consequences of PKing.

-Galen's player
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Quite frankly, popps, your arguments fall way short.

This is a game first and foremost.
As such, nobody needs to play it.
As such, nobody needs to have a particular template.
As such, nobody needs to obtain certain materials.

Fact is, people choose to play it.
As such people choose templates.
As such templates come with strengths and weaknesses.
As such people choose to mitigate weaknesses via items.
As such people choose to obtain items.

NO WHERE IS IT MANDATED THAT ANYBODY HAS TO DO ANYTHING.

If I go to Felucca, it is because I CHOSE to.
If I go to a Champ Spawn, it is because I CHOSE to.
As I CHOSE to go to Felucca and a Champ Spawn, I acknowledge that I have taken certain risks.
If I am raided, so be it. I lose more than I win by far, but I HAVE FUN in the challenge.

That is all. I no longer have the desire to entertain bedwetters and whiners.
Just play the damn game and acknowledge that choices have consequences. If you can get through that in a game, then real life won't be such a difficulty.

I am sorry but I have a different opinion as to what "choosing" might be.

I enjoy living life but I need money to live a life, have a family and so forth and so, I have to work. It is NOT a choice, if I could, I'd rather not to, but I MUST because otherwise my life would be far more miserable......

This, to me, is not a choice but a "forced" choice. I have to work even if I could not work and live a miserable life.

So, when a choice is being driven by a necessity there hardly is a free choice there but more a "forced" choice, IMHO.

Free choice to my opinion is going to the movies rather than to a restaurant or putting up a song rather than another. Whenever I have to put on a soap opera on TV because someone in my family asks for it and to avoid discussions I let go, that is no choice to me, it is a forced choice given the circumstances.

As I see it, they are 2 entire different things.
 
N

Nastia Cross

Guest
I am sorry but I have a different opinion as to what "choosing" might be.

I enjoy living life but I need money to live a life, have a family and so forth and so, I have to work. It is NOT a choice, if I could, I'd rather not to, but I MUST because otherwise my life would be far more miserable......

This, to me, is not a choice but a "forced" choice. I have to work even if I could not work and live a miserable life.
Working so you can have money is a forced choice for you? Wow that's sad...
 
G

Gellor

Guest
blues will take counts from defending THEIR spawns
Emphasis on something that was not intended for champ spawns. Last I recall, champ spawns are not instanced... and thus NOT private. You want a private spawn, take your counts defending it. Otherwise, it is a free for all and public.

If another guild is "raiding", more often than not, it will be a bunch of reds coming out of the wood works. Thus, no reason for getting counts. Although, some raiding guilds do show up on a mix of reds and blues. But if the blues are healing the reds, they are gray and freely attackable.

I do like the theory of the pardons... but I think there needs to be some limit and penalty for using them. Something along the lines of 2-3 a day per char max and 500k per use.

If some reasonable use limit was put in, I don't have a problem with the drop rate.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Question regarding the "commonality" of these pardons: 8 of 25 and this is only of 25 level 6 maps. How do we know this wasn't just a lucky pick? Perhaps a larger test needs to be done? 25 isn't a very good test if people think this is such a serious issue.

Second question: Are they ONLY limited to level 6 maps?
 

Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Galenknighthawk got a question for you on the spawn.
What lvl maps had what?
How many spawned per?

I'd hate to go do a lvl 1 and get a yomotsu !
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Said it was 25 level 6's. Which is why I am wondering how the loot will differ between levels.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Emphasis on something that was not intended for champ spawns. Last I recall, champ spawns are not instanced... and thus NOT private. You want a private spawn, take your counts defending it. Otherwise, it is a free for all and public.

If another guild is "raiding", more often than not, it will be a bunch of reds coming out of the wood works. Thus, no reason for getting counts. Although, some raiding guilds do show up on a mix of reds and blues. But if the blues are healing the reds, they are gray and freely attackable.

I do like the theory of the pardons... but I think there needs to be some limit and penalty for using them. Something along the lines of 2-3 a day per char max and 500k per use.

If some reasonable use limit was put in, I don't have a problem with the drop rate.
I don't agree at all. Groups of blues do spawns all the time and are left to defend them. My first four chars I played with spawning went red simply from defending against raiding BLUES (yes...raiding teams often bring blues to complete spawns FYI :) ). I was not a murderer because I went out and hunted down people to kill, I was a murderer because I tried defending what we felt was ours. (yes, spawns may be public...but when you have the champ up and an outsider comes in to share the wealth...people look down on that.)

Limit and penalty? Do you have any idea how long it will take to get 100 pardons? So in your opinion if you are red it should cost you 50 million gold in addition to the time spent gathering and finding the treasure pardons if you have 100 counts? What about 1000?

Guess you forgot about the old one time complete pardon too eh?
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If I go to Fel, I run the risk of getting PKed. (I'm in Factions, so I run risks from oranges, their allied "hero reds," and their blue allies to boot. But for most people, we'll say the risk comes from reds, specifically.)

If I PK too many people in the specified period of time, I find myself restricted to the facet you can PK people more-or-less freely in.

If you do not wish to run the risk of being PKed, do not go to Fel. If you do not wish to run the risk of going red, do not PK blues in Fel.

Both are roughly equivalent, roughly corresponding risks.

If the pardons spawn too frequently, they effectively take away risks for one and not for the other.

Now, to closely paraphrase your post, I wonder if the real issue for the pardons is that many of those who PK a lot can't really compete in PvP outside of ganks and miner killings, and are scared of being red?

I had not planned on arguing this point at all.....Until I realized how common the pardons were likely to be. Spawning at that rate, they become not a means to sidestep the occasional murder count from killing a blue who's attacking your Faction mates, or who is attempting to "jump" your champ spawn. Rather, they become a means of ducking the consequences of PKing.

-Galen's player
and yet no one has really concerned themselves with the fact that these will not be passed out for FREE on vendors. Lest you forget that MOST reds will not be spending 200 plus million to make themselves go blue again. rolleyes:
 
J

Javin

Guest
sorry if anyone already said it, but heres an idea...

have the pardons spawn only in fel chests?

~J
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
sorry if anyone already said it, but heres an idea...

have the pardons spawn only in fel chests?

~J
Since loot in fel and tram chests are the same, I'm going to go with the same lol.
Better question, what levels do they spawn in aside from level 6?
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
and yet no one has really concerned themselves with the fact that these will not be passed out for FREE on vendors. Lest you forget that MOST reds will not be spending 200 plus million to make themselves go blue again. rolleyes:
No, but one of those gigantic Fel-based guilds can chain l6 maps for, say, a week, and based on the current drop rate that may well about do it for many of their reds.

Let's see....What snotty smiley face can I use to counter your rolling eyes.

Oh, I know!

:confused:

-Galen's player
 

Miri of Sonoma

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What was her experience with locating the maps? Are the markings on the map enough of a guide. How much time did she have to spend finding the exact spot? and did she use mining?? also was she using 2d or the enhanced client?
 
A

Aristillus

Guest
No, but one of those gigantic Fel-based guilds can chain l6 maps for, say, a week, and based on the current drop rate that may well about do it for many of their reds.

Let's see....What snotty smiley face can I use to counter your rolling eyes.

Oh, I know!

:confused:

-Galen's player

And then what??? The Red Tide Of Death is going to sweep through Trammel and uproot your Daisies?????
 

Lord Chaos

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What was her experience with locating the maps? Are the markings on the map enough of a guide. How much time did she have to spend finding the exact spot? and did she use mining?? also was she using 2d or the enhanced client?
I'd like to know that too.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No, but one of those gigantic Fel-based guilds can chain l6 maps for, say, a week, and based on the current drop rate that may well about do it for many of their reds.

Let's see....What snotty smiley face can I use to counter your rolling eyes.

Oh, I know!

:confused:

-Galen's player
ok...so the rest?

How many counts do you suppose these giant fel-based guilds tally then? 1000? 10000? lol...if you are going to try to make an example it is best not to use the extreme. Just how many chars do you suppose have cart and lockpicking in a FEL BASED GUILD? 1? 2? 3? That is a lot of maps to get for starters...not to mention finishing them!
 
G

Gellor

Guest
I don't agree at all. Groups of blues do spawns all the time and are left to defend them. My first four chars I played with spawning went red simply from defending against raiding BLUES (yes...raiding teams often bring blues to complete spawns FYI :) ). I was not a murderer because I went out and hunted down people to kill, I was a murderer because I tried defending what we felt was ours. (yes, spawns may be public...but when you have the champ up and an outsider comes in to share the wealth...people look down on that.)

Limit and penalty? Do you have any idea how long it will take to get 100 pardons? So in your opinion if you are red it should cost you 50 million gold in addition to the time spent gathering and finding the treasure pardons if you have 100 counts? What about 1000?

Guess you forgot about the old one time complete pardon too eh?
You've completely missed the first part of my post you quoted: Spawns are not private events. If you want a private spawn, be prepared to defend it and take counts. Champ spawns are just like any other spawning monster: everyone can play... and in Fel, if you don't want someone to play with spawn while you are, you kill them.

I know exactly how raid guilds play... I was a member of one of the top ones for years. The reds in the raid group kill every one not guilded... the blues kill the spawn.

And yes, I think there SHOULD be some sort of timer and penalty. This is spoken by someone with several reds on two accounts(three with 100+ on them). I don't believe someone with over 10+ counts should have a free one day fix. Maybe my proposed 500k per pardon is a bit much. OTOH, do you think most of the reds of raiding guilds don't have an account or two of fully scrolled chars? I know that both of my accounts were at least 115'd out with the main chars I played 120'd (including mageries, evals, weapon skills, etc)

As for the one time pardon, I believe there were two of them. Once was when Trammel just opened. The other was due to a SEVERE bug with the counting system. Neither of them were done because of willfully killing blues.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As for the one time pardon, I believe there were two of them. Once was when Trammel just opened. The other was due to a SEVERE bug with the counting system. Neither of them were done because of willfully killing blues.
Oohh yeah! I remember those :D

There was also a complete pardon when factions was introduced. Initially no reds could be in factions and once you went red in a faction, you were booted. So if a red wanted to join factions, no matter how many counts, they went straight down to 4 I believe, making them blue.

However, the moment they went red again, not only did they get booted from the faction, their counts went back to where they were. That and you couldn't join again for a reprieve. One time only per character.

Obviously they removed that one-time reprieve. That and the "no murderers in factions" thing :p
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No, but one of those gigantic Fel-based guilds can chain l6 maps for, say, a week, and based on the current drop rate that may well about do it for many of their reds.

Let's see....What snotty smiley face can I use to counter your rolling eyes.

Oh, I know!

:confused:

-Galen's player
They COULD do that... but why? Those fel based guilds are in fel because they want to pvp. Not treasure hunt. And honestly, how many of these maps do you think a guild could do in a week?

First of all they would have to camp miasma, etc to get maps, and that can only get you so many maps so fast. So lets be generous and say they get... 100 maps a day from miasma. Then lets be generous again, and say they go buy 200 more maps a day (which is beyond generous).
Then lets be generous again, and assume that they can do 300 maps a day, every day in a seven day week. Assuming a drop rate of 1/3 that nets 100 pardons for each day. 700 pardons, for a whole guild devoting their time... and thats a LOT of work.

For a guild full of reds... thats not going to be that many. I'm willing to bet that each red person they MUST have at LEAST 50 counts (again, very generous). So... lets say this fel based guild has at least 10 reds, with 50 counts each (again... probably low end) at the onset of this undertaking. SO we could wipe them of being red, with 200 left over. Assume they all kill at least 1-2 blue a day, or 7-14 a week, 70-140 for the group.

So a guild with just like 10 reds, would have to do this MASSIVE week long undertaking once a month, for 1/4 of the month in days, to keep their reds blue...

And for what? To get the drop on some noobs they could probably, while red, decimate anyway?

Not going to happen. Ever. People need to stop overreacting.
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You've completely missed the first part of my post you quoted: Spawns are not private events. If you want a private spawn, be prepared to defend it and take counts. Champ spawns are just like any other spawning monster: everyone can play... and in Fel, if you don't want someone to play with spawn while you are, you kill them.
This, I have taken many counts defending spawns from these guys, back in the day. If you were a fielder many times the rivals guilds blue [a.K.a Scouts] would hit a para field poison field, get killed and give counts. and a couple times we were escorting Trammie Guilds. Defending/Raiding spawns is what the designers at the time had in mind, They are the most team based, dynamic system UO has going. The PS is the reward that makes the intense battles, Multiguild Harries on bigger shards is an experience unmatched. Todays Fell is only about PvP, Housing, and the occasional harvest/mining spot. There have been a few times I took a count because I won a Dual and the loser lost and was sore about it. There are 2 kinds of reds out there, First is the PvPer lives breaths PvP, they are not going to waste money on less counts period, 2nd are those who go red through defending guildmates/spawn or mallace means. Number one has hundreds if not thousands of counts, number 2, under 10. There is no such thing as murder these days, since the year 2000 there has been a gate that says I consent to being killed by another player. AOS made it even more pointless with insurance. The only time murder will mean anything is if we get a classic shard.
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
They COULD do that... but why? Those fel based guilds are in fel because they want to pvp. Not treasure hunt.
Then why have the items at all?

*shrugs*

Most of the reactions to me, I see, appear to be assuming that I'm opposed to the items in general, no matter how careful I've been to say otherwise.

I have a pretty good idea of why this is, but it's not reality.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Then why have the items at all?

*shrugs*

Most of the reactions to me, I see, appear to be assuming that I'm opposed to the items in general, no matter how careful I've been to say otherwise.

I have a pretty good idea of why this is, but it's not reality.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player
Well they ARE usefull items like I've been saying. Sometimes, when you are not a red, there are blues that need to be killed, because they are jerks, or are griefing...

So now, you can defend yourself and your friends from these morons, and no have to deal with 40 hours of being red.

I just think the whole notion that these pardons are going to somehow lead to wide scale griefing, to apparently oblivious fel tourists, is pretty absurd, ignores the logistics involved, and over sells the advantage that being blue gives a pk.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There are 2 kinds of reds out there, First is the PvPer lives breaths PvP, they are not going to waste money on less counts period, 2nd are those who go red through defending guildmates/spawn or mallace means. Number one has hundreds if not thousands of counts, number 2, under 10. There is no such thing as murder these days, since the year 2000 there has been a gate that says I consent to being killed by another player. AOS made it even more pointless with insurance. The only time murder will mean anything is if we get a classic shard.
There you have it.
 
S

Sevin0oo0

Guest
What was her experience with locating the maps? Are the markings on the map enough of a guide. How much time did she have to spend finding the exact spot? and did she use mining?? also was she using 2d or the enhanced client?
I'd like to know this as well - with the random locations, guess that will make the work put into t-map libraries worthless - at least i get more lockdowns now, to go with the freed space I got from the other resource books already trashed(mining/trees), cool
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You've completely missed the first part of my post you quoted: Spawns are not private events. If you want a private spawn, be prepared to defend it and take counts. Champ spawns are just like any other spawning monster: everyone can play... and in Fel, if you don't want someone to play with spawn while you are, you kill them.

I know exactly how raid guilds play... I was a member of one of the top ones for years. The reds in the raid group kill every one not guilded... the blues kill the spawn.

And yes, I think there SHOULD be some sort of timer and penalty. This is spoken by someone with several reds on two accounts(three with 100+ on them). I don't believe someone with over 10+ counts should have a free one day fix. Maybe my proposed 500k per pardon is a bit much. OTOH, do you think most of the reds of raiding guilds don't have an account or two of fully scrolled chars? I know that both of my accounts were at least 115'd out with the main chars I played 120'd (including mageries, evals, weapon skills, etc)

As for the one time pardon, I believe there were two of them. Once was when Trammel just opened. The other was due to a SEVERE bug with the counting system. Neither of them were done because of willfully killing blues.
Again, these are not something that are available like candy. Every single monster does not drop these every single time. To bypass the experience and collecting, decoding, and doing the tmaps just to say things are too easy is not exactly expressing things honestly.

As far as missing your point, I didnt miss a thing. However thanks for reiterating the same garbage as last time.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There are 2 kinds of reds out there, First is the PvPer lives breaths PvP, they are not going to waste money on less counts period, 2nd are those who go red through defending guildmates/spawn or mallace means. Number one has hundreds if not thousands of counts, number 2, under 10. There is no such thing as murder these days, since the year 2000 there has been a gate that says I consent to being killed by another player. AOS made it even more pointless with insurance. The only time murder will mean anything is if we get a classic shard.
There you have it.
Not entirely true. I have three reds with over 100 counts each who went red defending spawns. Once I hit ten counts these chars stayed red and just stuck around to defend spawns instead of doing them. Personally I would like to be able to get them blue again (at least one of them.) However, this is going to take a LONG TIME...not something I can do overnight.
 

Nyses

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ok, I just hopped on Test and did 3 lvl 6 Maps, One in Illsh, one in Ter Mur and one in Malas.

I just used a Mage, with Cart, Lock Picking and Mining. I would STRONGLY suggest Mining, as the Maps are drawn from Impossibly High up and you can get close but not nearly close enough to the exact spot. I walked right up next to the first chest spot and mining saved me on the other two (without spending forever looking).

Picking the chest: did get easier. I got one chest on the first try, one took me 4 tries and a broken pick, and one took me 7 tries 3 broken picks and a grubber poped out.

The Guardian Spawn: of the 3 chests, I got 4 guardians once, and 7 the other 2 times. Much easier than the old chest guards. Ev's will eventually kill them all.

The Loot: in total, I got:
3 Mana Phasing Orb
3 Forged Pardons
18 Essence (3 piles of 6 per chest)
1 Skeleton Key
1 Creeping Vine
1 Tasty Treat
1 Alacrity Scroll (Imbuing)
1 lvl 6 map
2 Recipie Scrolls
57 gems (1 pile of 19 per chest)
53 Junk Items (17 in two chest and 19 in one)

Loot Suggestion: Add the regs back in (they actually are useful). Either pair down the junk items further, or give them a minimum intensity, so we can get essence from unraveling them. I saw no 6 mod Items in the chests I did, and most of the "loot" in the chest is garbage. It is not Treasure chest worthy stuff. It would break down to residue. Who doesn't have a huge stockpile of residue already?
 

Frarc

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I keep getting a message on a map. "You stop digging cause you can not see the right location.". Its just right of Jhelom farm.
 

Gheed

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Loot Suggestion: Add the regs back in (they actually are useful). Either pair down the junk items further, or give them a minimum intensity, so we can get essence from unraveling them. I saw no 6 mod Items in the chests I did, and most of the "loot" in the chest is garbage. It is not Treasure chest worthy stuff. It would break down to residue. Who doesn't have a huge stockpile of residue already?

I have done several maps of all levels and it just feels like something is missing. It is just test center. And the devs have been known to hold back a bit until the pub goes live. Maybe it just that the chests look so empty now without all the stuff in them. I really hope there is more than these arties and vines. But it does seem like PvP has been at the top of the dev's list lately so who knows. I remember Leurocian hinting about new t-maps in the abyss, but they didn't happen. So maybe the there are a few surprises to be had yet.

I have been taking the loot from both guardians and chests to the soulforge to see if maybe the total intensity caps higher than 450 on some items or if they have increased mod caps. Out of about 30 chests 4-6, not one of the items were special in any way. There were several 6 mod items but most of the mods were weak or mismatched. None would unravel higher than essence.

When I think back in the beginning about t-hunting. It was really awesome to pop open a high level chest and see it bursting with items. Even though most of them weren't too great, you had a chance of pulling out some of the most powerful items to be had. I would like to see t-hunting get back to this.

6 mod items are nice but you can't imbue them so I fear I would spend a lifetime digging up chests before I found something really nice.

Another idea I had was to put items in the chest that were blanks with the exception of one or two unusual mods like SSI or DI on armor... or a +skill item. Then you could place 3 or 4 additional mods on the item w/a 450 cap. Sort of a partial arty where you could finish off mods w/imbuing as you see fit. They wouldn't be too wonderful with out imbuing them so it is guaranteed their life is finite.
 

Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I keep getting a message on a map. "You stop digging cause you can not see the right location.". Its just right of Jhelom farm.
Your ether standing on it or its within a few steps range of your position. without cords it makes it a hunt and peck.

Thank you for the calirfication on the lvl she did

Would really like the ML stuff to spawn in them too Some shards the players dont do Peerless anymore - not enough ppl. Its mostly factions players left.

I do see a problem with the pardons, thou I do think its time to get accidental reds a way to come clean. By which I mean some reds are that way cause of other methods of killing that got them in perma red state.
Pk/PvP reds should not be able to get these pardons so quickly or easly and I do see a vast number of the T maps misused for getting the pardons. Perhaps only the harder areas for these maps that give the pardons? Limiting them might not be an option, there are a lot of reds out there and so few t hunters viable enough to hunt the high end chests.

The maps the ladys tested were 6's so means para maps high end critters, and the only ones that are good for the maps are the masma chests. So I see alot of farming the scorpion coming.
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The Loot: in total, I got:
3 Mana Phasing Orb
3 Forged Pardons
18 Essence (3 piles of 6 per chest)
1 Skeleton Key
1 Creeping Vine
1 Tasty Treat
1 Alacrity Scroll (Imbuing)
1 lvl 6 map
2 Recipie Scrolls
57 gems (1 pile of 19 per chest)
53 Junk Items (17 in two chest and 19 in one)

Wait, over 3 Maps you got 3 pardons ???????????????

I cannot believe that they coded them to be that common.

The other concern is the 53 items ALL junk.

I keep seeing this over all reports of the items in the chests, none are worthy of being kept, all are referred to as "junk".

This is not good.

There should at least be some chance that some items had high intensities.
 

Nyses

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wait, over 3 Maps you got 3 pardons ???????????????

I cannot believe that they coded them to be that common.
Everyone is having big issues with Pardons and how "common" they are. Me personally, I think they are fine.

Most real reds have hundreds of murders or more and do not want to go blue. For the Reds that want to save up 300 and go Blue, who cares, let em. So they can come to Tram, so what? If you are in Fel, you should be aware of any players that are not with you, regardless of thier color. Just because soimeone is blue, does not mean they will not drop you, at the drop of a Hat, if they want to.

All that aside, just how easy does anyone think it will be to gather up 100 of these? Really. I personally have about 150 level 6 maps saved up and more are easy to get, but you also have to factor in the time to actually go do them!

Actually now that I think about his more, I'll be using these, I usually only attack blues at spawns I am doing, and it is nice to wipe a few counts to keep the counts down. :)
 

Frarc

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Your ether standing on it or its within a few steps range of your position. without cords it makes it a hunt and peck.

Thank you for the calirfication on the lvl she did

Would really like the ML stuff to spawn in them too Some shards the players dont do Peerless anymore - not enough ppl. Its mostly factions players left.

I do see a problem with the pardons, thou I do think its time to get accidental reds a way to come clean. By which I mean some reds are that way cause of other methods of killing that got them in perma red state.
Pk/PvP reds should not be able to get these pardons so quickly or easly and I do see a vast number of the T maps misused for getting the pardons. Perhaps only the harder areas for these maps that give the pardons? Limiting them might not be an option, there are a lot of reds out there and so few t hunters viable enough to hunt the high end chests.

The maps the ladys tested were 6's so means para maps high end critters, and the only ones that are good for the maps are the masma chests. So I see alot of farming the scorpion coming.

No matter where i stand i keep getting that message. either the fallen log or the morning glories are blocking that chest.
 

Prime.

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Goodness, I always thought it'd be fun to be a dev for uo, they do something great and FINALLY show T-hunting some love just to get attacked at because it's dropping to much stuff....

Pardons are fine, half the people complaining probably don't even step foot into fel

Thanks Devs! You at least made one person happy! :heart:
 

Shelleybean

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Here's a screen shot of the runed sash. I noticed that this one says weapon damage ward. I guess it also works for spell damage as indicated by the publish notes? You jsut double click it to use it. I could be wrong but it doesn't seem to last for 10 seconds and there is a cool down before being able to use it again. I'll test it more later.
 
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