The new and improved RoT system, designed by a player for players

[MoonglowMerchant]

Ok,

For those who don't know, here is the current system.

70-80--5 minutes between gains, 3.6 points per day
80-98--10 minutes between gains, 2 points per day
98-120--15 minutes between gains, 2 points per day


Here is the new system.

70-80--5 minutes between gains, 5 points per day
80-90--8 minutes between gains, 4 points per day
90-100--12 minutes between gains, 3 points per day
100-110--15 minutes between gains, 3 points per day
110-120--15 minutes between gains, 2 points per day


Ok, lets compare the two systems.

In the "old" RoT, assuming you start a new character and get all your gains every day, it takes about 90 days (3 months) to make a 7X GM character. It takes about 135 days (4.5 months) to make a 6 X 120 character.

In the "new" RoT assuming you start a new character and get all your gains every day, it takes about 55 days (1.5 months) to make a 7X GM character. It takes about 97 days (3 months) to make a 6 X 120 character.

So, you save 1.5 months going from zero to 7X GM and 1.5 months going from zero to 6 X 120.

If you are training one skill from zero to 120, the "old" system requires 23 days if you are maxxing your gains each day. The "new" system requires 16 days if you max your gains.

The overall reduction in days spent training is an improvement whether you are talking about 7 skills or just one.

Now, lets talk about the time it takes each day to get all your gains.

If you are training 6 or 7 skills, it isn't that bad. It never takes more than one hour of playing under the "old" system or under the "new" system to get all your gains for the day if you are training a new character.

THE PROBLEM IS THE HUGE AMOUNT OF TRAINING TIME EACH DAY TO GET ALL YOUR GAINS IF YOU ARE ONLY TRAINING ONE SKILL.

Why would someone train just one skill? Well, maybe EA introduces a new skill like bushido or spellweaving and you want to add it to your template. Maybe EA nerfs a skill and you no longer want it. In either case, here are the daily requirements to get max gains when training just one skill.

Under the "old", it would take 3 hours of training each day to max your gains on a skill between 70 and 80. Under the "new" system, it will take more than 4 hours of training each day to max your gains between 70 and 80.

Under the "old" system, it would take 3 hours and 20 mins each day to max your gains between 80 and 90. Under the "new" system, it will take more than 5 hours to get your daily gains between 80 and 90.

It gets worse.

Under the "new" system, it will take 6 hours each day to get all your gains on one skill between 90 and 100. It will take SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS each day to get all your gains between 100 and 110. Finally, it will take 5 hours to get all your gains each day between 110 and 120.

So, what is the solution?

I am going to fix this. I am doing it for the players of Siege and the dedicated staff at EA (I just need you to code it).

As I explain the solution, keep two things in mind. One, daily caps are in place to prevent people from gaining skills too quickly. Two, training a single skill under RoT requires a ridiculous amount of time each day.

Alright, here is the fix.

Leave the "new" caps in place.

70-80 5 points per day
80-90 4 points per day
90-110 3 points per day
110-120 2 points per day

However, instead of having the delay timer determined by skill level, have it determined by the number of skills in RoT.

The basic rule is 1 minute between gains for each skill in RoT. So, if I am training only one skill in RoT, I get a gain every minute. If I am training 7 skills in RoT, I get a gain in each skill every 7 minutes. This is the same no matter how high my skills are in RoT.

Here is an example.

I start a new 7X character and work all my skills to 70. It is my first day in RoT. I log in and immediately get 7 gains. 7 minutes later, I get another 7 gains and so on. It will take 42 minutes to get all my gains for the day. This is very similar to the "new" RoT. Under the "new" RoT, it would take 30 minutes.

The big difference is in training a single skill. Instead of 4 hours to get my gains each day from 70 to 80, it will take 50 minutes.

From 80 to 90 instead of 5 hours to max my gains on a single skill, it will take 40 minutes. Daily required training times will be reduced all the way up to 20 minutes for 2 points from 110 to 120.

You can play with the interval between gains. If one minute is too fast, make it two minutes.

The point is that by scaling gains to the number of skills trained rather than skill level, you will equalize the time spent in game to train a new character raising 6 or 7 skills and an established character training one.

Caps are still in place to prevent powergamers from going 0 to 120 in a day or a week. You still have to log on each day to get your gains. Training time for new characters will be relatively unaffected.

What this system does is allow people to train one or two skills in RoT without having to be on-line for 5 to 7 hours each day.

You are welcome.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Ok,

For those who don't know, here is the current system.

70-80--5 minutes between gains, 3.6 points per day
80-98--10 minutes between gains, 2 points per day
98-120--15 minutes between gains, 2 points per day


Here is the new system.

70-80--5 minutes between gains, 5 points per day
80-90--8 minutes between gains, 4 points per day
90-100--12 minutes between gains, 3 points per day
100-110--15 minutes between gains, 3 points per day
110-120--15 minutes between gains, 2 points per day


Ok, lets compare the two systems.

In the "old" RoT, assuming you start a new character and get all your gains every day, it takes about 90 days (3 months) to make a 7X GM character. It takes about 135 days (4.5 months) to make a 6 X 120 character.

In the "new" RoT assuming you start a new character and get all your gains every day, it takes about 55 days (1.5 months) to make a 7X GM character. It takes about 97 days (3 months) to make a 6 X 120 character.

So, you save 1.5 months going from zero to 7X GM and 1.5 months going from zero to 6 X 120.

If you are training one skill from zero to 120, the "old" system requires 23 days if you are maxxing your gains each day. The "new" system requires 16 days if you max your gains.

The overall reduction in days spent training is an improvement whether you are talking about 7 skills or just one.

Now, lets talk about the time it takes each day to get all your gains.

If you are training 6 or 7 skills, it isn't that bad. It never takes more than one hour of playing under the "old" system or under the "new" system to get all your gains for the day if you are training a new character.

THE PROBLEM IS THE HUGE AMOUNT OF TRAINING TIME EACH DAY TO GET ALL YOUR GAINS IF YOU ARE ONLY TRAINING ONE SKILL.

Why would someone train just one skill? Well, maybe EA introduces a new skill like bushido or spellweaving and you want to add it to your template. Maybe EA nerfs a skill and you no longer want it. In either case, here are the daily requirements to get max gains when training just one skill.

Under the "old", it would take 3 hours of training each day to max your gains on a skill between 70 and 80. Under the "new" system, it will take more than 4 hours of training each day to max your gains between 70 and 80.

Under the "old" system, it would take 3 hours and 20 mins each day to max your gains between 80 and 90. Under the "new" system, it will take more than 5 hours to get your daily gains between 80 and 90.

It gets worse.

Under the "new" system, it will take 6 hours each day to get all your gains on one skill between 90 and 100. It will take SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS each day to get all your gains between 100 and 110. Finally, it will take 5 hours to get all your gains each day between 110 and 120.

So, what is the solution?

I am going to fix this. I am doing it for the players of Siege and the dedicated staff at EA (I just need you to code it).

As I explain the solution, keep two things in mind. One, daily caps are in place to prevent people from gaining skills too quickly. Two, training a single skill under RoT requires a ridiculous amount of time each day.

Alright, here is the fix.

Leave the "new" caps in place.

70-80 5 points per day
80-90 4 points per day
90-110 3 points per day
110-120 2 points per day

However, instead of having the delay timer determined by skill level, have it determined by the number of skills in RoT.

The basic rule is 1 minute between gains for each skill in RoT. So, if I am training only one skill in RoT, I get a gain every minute. If I am training 7 skills in RoT, I get a gain in each skill every 7 minutes. This is the same no matter how high my skills are in RoT.

Here is an example.

I start a new 7X character and work all my skills to 70. It is my first day in RoT. I log in and immediately get 7 gains. 7 minutes later, I get another 7 gains and so on. It will take 42 minutes to get all my gains for the day. This is very similar to the "new" RoT. Under the "new" RoT, it would take 30 minutes.

The big difference is in training a single skill. Instead of 4 hours to get my gains each day from 70 to 80, it will take 50 minutes.

From 80 to 90 instead of 5 hours to max my gains on a single skill, it will take 40 minutes. Daily required training times will be reduced all the way up to 20 minutes for 2 points from 110 to 120.

You can play with the interval between gains. If one minute is too fast, make it two minutes.

The point is that by scaling gains to the number of skills trained rather than skill level, you will equalize the time spent in game to train a new character raising 6 or 7 skills and an established character training one.

Caps are still in place to prevent powergamers from going 0 to 120 in a day or a week. You still have to log on each day to get your gains. Training time for new characters will be relatively unaffected.

What this system does is allow people to train one or two skills in RoT without having to be on-line for 5 to 7 hours each day.

You are welcome.

This just in from a long time Siege player:

I'm leaving Siege, which means UO, most likely permanately. I'll be on to pack up/give away in the next few days, and then I'll be gone.

I won't bore you with the many details of why. It's enough to say I don't enjoy this game anymore, haven't in a long time, and have lost the little hope I had for Siege. Since hope for an improved Siege was really the only thing that kept me here wasting my time and my money, I'm leaving.

I won't be posting on or reading the boards anymore either. I think it's futile trying to convince the devs to make the necessary changes to UO (and not make the bad ones) and even more futile to convince the community.


-Freja and Max, sorry about not being active with the alliance. I should have never agreed to start one with my activity. Good luck to you.

Thanks to everyone who made the fun I had on Siege Perilous possible. Most of you are gone, but thank you to the few of you who are left.

I guess there's not much else to say. I hope to see some of you in DarkFall. I also hope not to see many of you.



PS: If you want Siege to survive for however long UO does, if that's possible, you need to be agressive. You can't wait for problems to get worse. You can't let the problems you can avoid occur in the first place. You must always anaylze new changes, predict their effect on Siege, and immediately oppose them if they're harmful. Most importantly, you need to stand united. Even if you're united in that you agree there needs to be change, you need to be united on what that change needs to be.

We agreed we needed a ROT change, after having stupid debates for years, and then we weren't united in what the change needed to be. Now we got a small change that will accomplish little. Small changes will do nothing for Siege at this point. Population is the key to saving Siege, and it's only going to get worse with the release of games like DarkFall and the increase of lands in future UO expansions. I don't really care what you do anymore since I won't be coming back. If you care though, you'll ask for the pointless change to ROT to be made into a major ROT change (such as a 10 point a day gain cap and a 1-2 minute timer).



Farewell Siege. I left a long time ago and just didn't realize it...


*is reabsorbed into the collective*

You know you don't have to do what I suggest, but you need to do something.

Publishing something that doesn't help and in some ways makes things worse isn't going to cut it.

 

[Beefybone]

I don't know why RoT isn't just abolished.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

I don't know why RoT isn't just abolished.

People on Siege like RoT. It is one of the things that makes us unique.

It just needs to be faster.

 

[Devil_Woman]

Pfft, just ditch the timer. One of the main points to ROT is to enable players to get what skill training they can do done and over with so they can go just have fun. The caps alone prevent power-gaming a new character in mere days. I don't really think the timer is needed at all.

 

[Galad]

Ya, the timer really needs to go.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Pfft, just ditch the timer. One of the main points to ROT is to enable players to get what skill training they can do done and over with so they can go just have fun. The caps alone prevent power-gaming a new character in mere days. I don't really think the timer is needed at all.

People like the timer because they know exactly when their gains are coming. The problem is that with long timers between gains, if you are training only one or two skills it requires inordinate amounts of time each day to get all your gains.

A number of people are advocating a two minute timer. That would accomplish the goal of enabling players to finish their skill training so that they can go have fun as you suggested.

There are a number of ways to accomplish that in fact. Unfortunately, the system that was just put in doesn't get the job done.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Ya, the timer really needs to go.

Adjusted, yes. Removed, no. Power leveling a charater in a couple of days would not be good for the shard. It's a built in security system that keeps most of the kiddies off the shard. For those of you who haven't played the shard, you wouldn't understand.

We don't (or haven't had problems over the years) have the scripting, the scamming, the duping or the economy problems that the production shards have. I'm glad to see the revised system. I'll be curious to see how it works as I am always working up new skills...la

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

People on Siege like RoT. It is one of the things that makes us unique.

It just needs to be faster.

Jeremy did state that these new adjustments were subject to change, once they actually made it to Seige. The thing is people like yourself now have to input what *change* you think is necessary instead of just saying *I quit*. RoT cannot be adjusted any further unless you explain how and why it needs the adjustment.

If you still want to complain more after being constructive about the issue then dont let the door hit ya where the...

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Jeremy did state that these new adjustments were subject to change, once they actually made it to Seige. The thing is people like yourself now have to input what *change* you think is necessary instead of just saying *I quit*. RoT cannot be adjusted any further unless you explain how and why it needs the adjustment.

If you still want to complain more after being constructive about the issue then dont let the door hit ya where the...

I'm not quitting, well at least I have no plans to do so at the moment.

That is why I made the first post in this thread outlining RoT's current problems and proposing a possible solution.

Maybe you should read that before making any further assumptions.