The difference between the screenshots of EC and CC

[Nimuaq]

Comparing an EC screenshot with zoom adjusted using R_Traveler's method to the same level of CC:

(stratics re-sizes the image to fit the screen, here's the link to view it at original size: http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/Nimuaq/Image4.png)

I've noticed some players are complaining about their eyes hurting by looking at the screen while using EC.

I think the only reason is the blurry textures of walls and floors. The textures are basically the same, just a little blurry in EC.

If the wall and the floor textures were as sharp as it is in CC, two images would look exactly the same, at least to me. What do you think?

 

[HD2300]

... and the terrain is just a blurry mess. It is like someone color blind and who needs to wear perscription glasses and doesnt was in charge of the Design QA.

If you replace the EC terrain with the 10 year old CC terrain it would be an massive improvement.

The graphics quality in both clients are not even up to a 2005 standard and will not attract new players. They just need to pick one client and redo ALL the graphics from scratch.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

... and the terrain is just a blurry mess.

how is blurry like that even passable???
Do other EC users like the non-definition of those cliff edges & roads, and find them realistic?
Might as well just cover it all w/ snow

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

It's a lot more crisp on a 23in monitor with the gameplay window covering the entire screen... at least for me it is, I have no problems with the edges... looks a LOT more realistic than hard line separation.

Granted that I liked the way the grass textures were in KR, they're roughly the same in EC, but weree changed quite drastically from what they were in KR... KR's grass was a lot wilder and varied. The underbrush terrain texture (usually seen in forest areas) needed work in KR, but the grass was great.

The grass texture for Legacy IMO looks too SNESish for me... just a green mat with some variation to suggest grass, not really up to par with current graphical levels.

My biggest issue with the textures and graphics in the EC are that they were compromised DOWN and in doing so, a proper scaling method has yet to be used so that anything out of the native size pixelated and distorts. Mind you that the Native resolution and the Default zoom level in EC are two different things... you have to zoom OUT to reach the Native resolution and even then it's not 100% accurate regardless of method used.

What makes it even more odd is that I have found through use of Pinco's UI (which can scale UI elements independantly) that item artwork in a container can be scaled upwards (even though it is the Legacy artwork) in a MUCH clearer fashion. Below is an example with the zoom setting in EC set to match the largest scale setting for Pinco's UI container:

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

I just cannot get over the "floating" movement, the chars who look like they have sarabal palsy. The only difference for me between EC and CC is the zoom, and the junk I mentioned above.

 

[covert]

I think the sync with the movement sounds was the biggest turn off. I turned off feet sounds and it helped me get over the movement much easier.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

Yeah, the 10 plus year old CC artwork is a lot sharper than the EC art. I've wondered why they downgraded the old art, when it should have been made a lot sharper so the zoom would show a nice, large image rather than just a blur of pixels.

They REALLY should have invested in making new high-res art for the EC.

The problem is probably in some EA exec's antiquated mindset. When UO first came out, most of us had low-resolution 15-inch monitors, and an 8 MB graphics card was the bomb. I played with a 28.8k connection back in 1999. Now, I've got the 50-inch plasma TV in my bedroom set up to play video games. My graphics card is 1 gigabyte. And, even out here in the boondocks, my 3G internet connection is 768k, and that is really slow by modern standards; next year, 4G will be available here, at several MB/S. Unfortunately, both the DSL and cable companies are saying they have no plans to expand to my area, but wireless internet is still many times faster than the old dial-up, so it is rapidly becoming the standard in the burbs and boondocks.

Practically the whole UO player base today has large, high resolution monitors. Practically nobody is on dial-up anymore. Most of us have at least a 3 ghz processor. And even the cheapest video card is at least 128 mb. But UO is still working under the assumption that it will lose players unless it makes any new additions compatible with an old 32 MHZ 486-based computer with an 8 mb graphics card and dial-up connection.

They really need to improve ALL the EC artwork so that it looks sharp at 1600x1200 resolution, zoomed to 4x.

 

[old gypsy]

My monitor's pretty old and I have a lower-end PC than most gamers. From what I've seen of the graphics so far, I guess I'm going to hold off on trying the EC for now.

 

[Cetric]

i cant get over how crappy it is to pvp in the client, especially on a mage..

 

[puni666]

There's an new client?

 

[hawkeye_pike]

What do you think?

I think that I've been submitting constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement for the Enhanced Client for almost 2 years now, nothing has changed, and I have given up.

The EC has a lot of potential, but it was done with minimum budget and it shows.

 

[AtlanticVlad]

Why there isn't an option to just use all the old textures and such I've no idea I hate the undefined edges of things in the EC they make me feel more blind them I already feel. And my prescription is just fine...

My real problem beyond the floor textures is the new character models god I hate them why can I tell that's a bear hat in the CC and in the EC does it look like the persons head is flat and blends in with the cobble stone?

Not to mention the vendors in the picture... I personally think the CC pic is way better.

Gimmy an option to use my old textures and what not and I'll gladly switch...

 

[Davin Darkblade]

Why isn't there an option to use Kingdom Reborn textures? So sick of seeing these old classic textures...

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Sorry, this thread is hilarious.

People pancake about the textures in the EC.. They are the CC 'textures,' just bumped up so they sorta fit in a modern resolution.

Why do they look like poop? Because they are SPRITES made in 1996! Nothing from that era looks great at a modern resolution.

Why did the Dev Team chose to dumb down the client? Because UO players seem to fear change, and claim that "graphics don't matter"... Then they promptly pancake about the EC graphics.

The only parts of KR that are left in the EC are the avatars, the mobs, and the ground. Even the paperdolls are about to be timewarped back to the 90's.

We don't have a better client because you ludites won't accept it. I hope you enjoy playing at 800x600....forever.

 

[jaashua]

Why did the Dev Team chose to dumb down the client? Because UO players seem to fear change, and claim that "graphics don't matter"... Then they promptly pancake about the EC graphics.

The only parts of KR that are left in the EC are the avatars, the mobs, and the ground. Even the paperdolls are about to be timewarped back to the 90's.

Nobody ever said, or at least meant, that graphics don't matter......merely that graphics aren't everything.

And, frankly, the avatars and mobs are even worse than the textures.

You can rip on the UO community for some things, but not wanting a genuinely nice looking new client is NOT one of them.

 

[Davin Darkblade]

It's a matter of interpretation though. If people don't like it that's fine. But the Classic Client users cry out about it and our choice suddenly becomes more like theirs...

 

[lucitus]

Why isn't there an option to use Kingdom Reborn textures? So sick of seeing these old classic textures...

Yeah...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Tastes are different, but iam of the opinion Devs give me the graphic you like, but make the client ready and fix the memory leak, the lagging players without sound, fix the bad pixelation when you have zoomend in.

Iam also of the opinion switch back to KR graphics because old players never change only because it looks a bit like 2d, but the players who have the intention to switch will make it happy to play with high resoluted artwork .

 

[jack flash uk]

28in widescreen monitor
Pinco interface
Decors textures (via pinco)
graphices detail all set to max
camera zoom set to 19.3000 as per traveller's intructions



AWESOME STUFF

you would hav to threathen my pet dog's life to get me going back to CC

 

[Llewen]

Screw the graphics. I'd love to see the KR graphics in the EC, but that's not why I use the EC. I pvp on a tamer/mage, and the EC just flat out rocks. Movement is better, there are a lot more options for casting and macros, Pinco's UI just flat out rocks. I love the EC, and I am a much better player because of it, and this 45 year old, out of shape invalid with horribly shaky hands, kicks the butts of teenagers and twenty somethings on a daily basis, in large part because of the EC.

I don't get why more pvp'rs, including those playing mages, aren't in love with the EC. Well actually I do understand why. Most pvp'rs favourite cheats don't work with the EC, but what they don't realize is, even when you take into account the cheats, the EC is better to pvp on than the CC. The only catch is you have to rework your macros and spend some time relearning the game, because there are lots of great things that you can do with the EC that you can't with the CC, and it does "feel" different.

So you have to accept the fact that there will be a period of adjustment during which time you will not do as well as you are used to, but once you get beyond those first few weeks, it's all gravy. The EC is, in my considered opinion, having played both and pvp'd on both for years, the far better client, so much better that there really isn't any comparison - especially if you aren't a cheater.

 

[Mapper]

I think you really need to tweak the EC to suit your screen, Heres a screenshot I took and I feel it's pretty reasonable.

Link if Stratics shrinks it: http://midnightwraiths.org/admin/files/1/08021105.jpg

 

[[JD]]

We don't have a better client because you ludites won't accept it. I hope you enjoy playing at 800x600....forever.

Too funny. One of my favorite quotes is McDermott saying something to the effect of "Some people need to be brought screaming into the present". Too true. People refuse to update so we are stuck with a game using C64 graphcis which won't attract new players. Thanks Luddites! And I agree, some refuse to update beacuse their speeders and hacks will not work in the EC (so far).

But to the OT, I don't really seem to have these problems. Granted I have a modern PC express 2 video card, play on my wide screen 42" vizio LCD. Looks fine to me. Though I can see how there could be problems between native resolution and zoomed maybe looking blurry but that should have nothing to do with the EC.

The only time I ever get a headache in UO is if I play too damn long. You can get seasickness from looking at a monitor and not feeling movement, the way that you can be on a boat in an enclosed room feeling movement but not seeing it. And then you wanna hurl.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Why there isn't an option to just use all the old textures and such I've no idea I hate the undefined edges of things in the EC they make me feel more blind them I already feel. And my prescription is just fine...

My real problem beyond the floor textures is the new character models god I hate them why can I tell that's a bear hat in the CC and in the EC does it look like the persons head is flat and blends in with the cobble stone?

Not to mention the vendors in the picture... I personally think the CC pic is way better.

Gimmy an option to use my old textures and what not and I'll gladly switch...

QFT

 

[Merion]

Brave move Nimuaq! I don't even try anymore - if they choose to inhibit themselves, let them.

Friend of mine tried the EC for two weeks, aknowledged that it is vastly superior but went back to classic because he was to lazy to learn to play the EC.
At least he was honest...

 

[Woodsman]

I took this last night, it's a rear view of Virtuebane, and I was zoomed in but surprisingly it held up to all but the last few levels of zoom. Did anybody get any screenshots of him with the CC or zoomed out?

 

[Viquire]

I took this last night, it's a rear view of Virtuebane, and I was zoomed in but surprisingly it held up to all but the last few levels of zoom. Did anybody get any screenshots of him with the CC or zoomed out?

WOW!

That crap is sweet!

 

[MalagAste]

I was against KR for a long time because much of my home went from looking like rich mahogany to an old barn... The colors muted and blurred. My stacked treasure chests had the look of broke back old nags and plants looked as though someone in kindergarten painted them... like stick figures .... Just blobs of paint with NO definition at all... and all I kept hearing about was that little banana tree.... however the ferns looked sick, and so did the champions... two things I deco with quite often.

As for the EC.... I've grown accustomed to it. Much of what disgusts me now about it is things like the Hiryu... They ruined it..... the Swamp dragon (Also ruined)..... The swamp dragon used to look as though it was loosely based off of Stanley Steamer the Gap Dragon in Piers Anthony's Xanth Novels.... and that made the little guy very dear to me. No it's just weird and funny looking. I miss the 6 legs. I HATE The fact that my dragons are ALL Red... No more brown dragons.... not that I liked the brown ones but you can no longer tell what color things are in the EC. And the colors of the Hiryu's are LOST in the EC..... they look like total crap. I liken it to a plucked chicken... Someone needs to return the beauty to this animal. Ostards have also suffered.... they now look more like a 2 legged snake... NO definition to them AT ALL. But this is the fault of the horrid artists they hired for KR... Also many things are out of perspective.... hence the reason they look "odd". And the Circle of Transparency in the EC is a JOKE... it stinks.

And for the record I now have a good PC and use a 42" Sony Bravia HDTV for a monitor... And run the EC almost exclusively. I find it to be WAY better performance wise than the 2d client. I also use a Logitech G13 when I play... and have found that with the EC making macro's is extremely simple.... I now can use one base set up on my G13 for each and every one of my characters... No more switching my settings around each time I swap characters. And switching a macro in and out of my settings is super easy and fast just a matter of drag and drop. Want to have Lightning bolt on that key instead of Explosion just swap the icon in and out and done... I can do it on the fly almost.

I can swap my entire suit in just the blink of an eye. I love it.

For dexers the EC is the way to go. Extremely user friendly.

It's also super for my Tamers. Taming and managing my pets has NEVER been easier.

 

[Woodsman]

WOW!

That crap is sweet!

He really stood out. This is another angle, and again I was zoomed in, but there is very little of the pixelation you see when zooming in on other things - even the edge of his robe looks tattered rather than pixelated.

Whoever was the artist on this did a very good job, I just regret that I did not get a good front view of him.

 

[Zosimus]

28in widescreen monitor
Pinco interface
Decors textures (via pinco)
graphices detail all set to max
camera zoom set to 19.3000 as per traveller's intructions



AWESOME STUFF

you would hav to threathen my pet dog's life to get me going back to CC

If Pinco interface is a mod its excellent. Modders do such wonderful work and for free to

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I HATE The fact that my dragons are ALL Red... No more brown dragons.... not that I liked the brown ones but you can no longer tell what color things are in the EC. And the colors of the Hiryu's are LOST in the EC..... they look like total crap. I liken it to a plucked chicken... Someone needs to return the beauty to this animal.

Agreed. I can't stand all the RED dragons either. My best dragon is a brownie.

 

[Ganondorf00]

Make sure all settings and options are at max, then if it still looks blurry, they need to make higher res textures.

 

[Ender]

Does anybody have several KR/EC comparison shots? Just curious.

Honestly I prefer the EC's graphics to CC for almost everything, but it still isn't very good for the most part. Needs a total rework honestly. Which I hope is coming this year.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I have some I can (re)post in about an hour from now.

 

[jack flash uk]

If Pinco interface is a mod its excellent. Modders do such wonderful work and for free to

they most certainly do, for which i am most grateful

BUT, i di drecently offer Pinco a gift of gold as thanks, awaiting reply! (though i suspect Pinco is rich already)

 

[Neutron Bomb]

Why did the Dev Team chose to dumb down the client? Because UO players seem to fear change, and claim that "graphics don't matter"... Then they promptly pancake about the EC graphics.

Fear change? Really? As far as 2D goes, the CC is the best looking client out. The rest looks like ****. I prefer CC because EC again, looks like total and complete ass. KR included. Anything other than 2D (Includes 3rd Dawn) looks corny as hell.

Aside from true 3D, CC is the way to go.

 

[jaashua]

So rather than a game engine that looks 15 years old, you prefer a game engine that looks 12 years old. Ya, we're really resisting being brought into the "present".

 

[HD2300]

Honestly I prefer the EC's graphics to CC for almost everything, but it still isn't very good for the most part. Needs a total rework honestly. Which I hope is coming this year.

Everyone agrees conceptually the EC is what the game needs. i.e. a new awesome client.

Execution wise it is subpar, because if the main aim is to get new players, it is an complete fail.

It is like a big black hole, sucking up resources. So it either needs a total rework, or you can it and spend the time instead on pixel crack to sell in the cash shop.

And anyone involved in the artwork of the KR client and EC is not allowed to be involved. Harsh but that is the core of the problem and why still after 4 years it is still ship.

 

[Ken of Napa]

I took this last night, it's a rear view of Virtuebane, and I was zoomed in but surprisingly it held up to all but the last few levels of zoom. Did anybody get any screenshots of him with the CC or zoomed out?

Very nice!

The only question I have is: "What's that pink thing he's trying to ride?"

Doesn't look like anything I recognize.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Does anybody have several KR/EC comparison shots? Just curious.

Here ya go... first a few KR vs EC/2d shots, then something a bit interesting within EC itself... note that these are taken in the KR and EC clients in the same locations during a short time when EC and KR ran at the same time.

Sandstone

Banana Trees

Wood flooring

Zoomed comparison of model resolution reduction (KR left, EC right)

Chests:

And now for something even more odd... EC vs EC. Seems that the system uses two methods to zoom or scale images, one within the UI and one within the game window. Oddly, the one in the UI scales MUCH better showing more detail and less pixelation. This was done via Pinco's UI by scaling a container as large as it would scale, then zooming in on the objects compared on the ground until I matched size as closely as possible (within 1 or 2 pixels). There are two versions of each image, a normal size and one I rescaled to 300% to really show the difference:

BOD book and Picnic Basket 100%

BOD book and Picnic Basket 300%

BOD and ingot 100%

BOD and ingot 300%

 

[old gypsy]

Why did the Dev Team chose to dumb down the client? Because UO players seem to fear change, and claim that "graphics don't matter"... Then they promptly pancake about the EC graphics.[/B].

Admittedly, I am a creature of habit and often hesitate to try new things, but that isn't the only reason why I am holding back. Without my glasses on, everything I look at is one big blur. I am literally lost without my glasses. Even with new trifocals, I have trouble with less than crisp graphics. My glasses can't correct everything. When my astigmatism, farsightedness, and poor eye-muscle coordination are added to my usual resistance to trying new things... well, I remain hesitant to switch clients at this point in time. If I had no choice, I would certainly try to make the switch, but I don't know how long UO would remain playable for me.

 

[Woodsman]

Admittedly, I am a creature of habit and often hesitate to try new things, but that isn't the only reason why I am holding back. Without my glasses on, everything I look at is one big blur. I am literally lost without my glasses. Even with new trifocals, I have trouble with less than crisp graphics.

If they can make all of the artwork look as crisp/sharp and vibrant as the Virtuebane character, you'll be just fine. I posted a screenshot above, and unfortunately it was less than optimal - I was trying to stay alive. I wish now I had focused on taking screenshots, because Virtuebane was very well done, even when zooming in on the EC - the sharpness remained.

 

[Ender]

Thanks Dermott.

Man do I miss KR. Some of the items should definitely have been kept more similar to the CC/EC style, but what was similar looked so much better. Now it looks damn near exactly the same except for mobiles.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I do as well. I REALLY wish that they had not taken such a huge step backwards in terms of graphical quality. Even just having it as a high resolution option (and not the default) would have been MUCH more preferrable IMO.

As it is, the current EC simply does not properly scale the Legacy graphics. Even if you try and hit that "sweet spot" where the graphics are in their native resolution, it's still not perfect as not everything will be properly scaled.

I'm holding onto a small sliver of hope that the info in the video will be that they figured out how to scale the current graphics properly, but yes, I miss the KR client as well. Yes it started out blurry and had a fair number of issues, but the last few months before it was replaced, at least on my system, it was crisp, clear and ran well.

 

[Omnius]

I gave up ages ago with 800x600. I read a guide somewhere on customizing cc resolutions and never looked back.

 

[Woodsman]

I'm holding onto a small sliver of hope that the info in the video will be that they figured out how to scale the current graphics properly, but yes, I miss the KR client as well. Yes it started out blurry and had a fair number of issues, but the last few months before it was replaced, at least on my system, it was crisp, clear and ran well.

One of the artists, this was around 2001-2002 I think, mentioned that they were doing all of the artwork in a higher resolution and then scaling it down for the game, with the plans to go back and take advantage of it when the client/gamers were ready. This was in regards to a discussion about the 3D client and where it was headed in the future.

Do you know if they used any of that for KR? I'm assuming they would still have access to a lot of that stuff, and even if they didn't, they have the KR artwork.

Something is being done. You or somebody else has mentioned the thigh boots and war axe, I posted examples of Virtuebane. Somebody is doing some upgrades of in-game artwork. Virtuebane maybe "new" artwork, but it's still of a much better quality than existing monsters/characters.

Virtuebane's paper doll was funny - some albino human with a weird-looking helmet, but in-game Virtuebane was really sharp and vibrant. Virtuebane really popped out from everything else.

 

[Woodsman]

A friend that did some video capture for another website briefly got a few somewhat clear shots of Virtuebane from the front, and more importantly, the video he captured had him zooming in and out on Virtuebane so you can see that he scaled fairly well.

When he finishes the video and uploads it, I'll post a link, but for now this is what he sent me.

The one on the left is zoomed pretty far in, the one on the right is zoomed out. These are obviously the EC.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

What I know is this...

For whatever reason, all of the original (2d) artwork assets (pipeline) were lost around the time they moved from Austin to outside of Sacremento (if I recall correctly) and a new art pipeline had to be rebuilt (I believe Grimm did most of that work) which was done during KR/EC.

The KR artwork is still in the game files somewhere because a few pieces here and there have "leaked" into the game itself.

Ones I can verify are the:

War Axe (used to be solid KR artwork, now it is on BODs and in shopkeepers menus, but reverts to 2d model if you have one in your backpack for some reason)

Unlit Wall Torch (You can find these in Hythloth level 2 outside of the double room that has gargoyle in the upper portion and 2 daemons in the lower, just compare with the lit wall torches to see)

Lilypad (Seen in the plant UI gump)

There may be a few others, but not many.

 

[Woodsman]

Just so it's clear, the images above were taken from a video capture and were not screenshots, so there is some blurriness from it being video.

 

[jaashua]

Everyone agrees conceptually the EC is what the game needs. i.e. a new awesome client.

Execution wise it is subpar, because if the main aim is to get new players, it is an complete fail.

It is like a big black hole, sucking up resources. So it either needs a total rework, or you can it and spend the time instead on pixel crack to sell in the cash shop.

And anyone involved in the artwork of the KR client and EC is not allowed to be involved. Harsh but that is the core of the problem and why still after 4 years it is still ship.

Worth quoting.

The EC needs to be abandoned while they work on a serious new client. And when this new client comes out, it becomes THE client and CC is abandoned.

 

[Smoot]

Everyone agrees conceptually the EC is what the game needs. i.e. a new awesome client.

Execution wise it is subpar, because if the main aim is to get new players, it is an complete fail.

It is like a big black hole, sucking up resources. So it either needs a total rework, or you can it and spend the time instead on pixel crack to sell in the cash shop.

And anyone involved in the artwork of the KR client and EC is not allowed to be involved. Harsh but that is the core of the problem and why still after 4 years it is still ship.

Worth quoting.

The EC needs to be abandoned while they work on a serious new client. And when this new client comes out, it becomes THE client and CC is abandoned.

If Classic Client was no longer available, i would quit Mythic UO. Part of the reason i play it is BECAUSE of the old style graphics. Every other game i play (even if its a new 2d app game) is modern style.

I think all of you must have thrown out your old ataris and nintendos

 

[jaashua]

If Classic Client was no longer available, i would quit Mythic UO. Part of the reason i play it is BECAUSE of the old style graphics. Every other game i play (even if its a new 2d app game) is modern style.

I think all of you must have thrown out your old ataris and nintendos

The graphics in the CC are remarkable. They're stylized, well proportioned, and animated beautifully. To me, they're kind of like medieval paintings come to life.

But UO is an evolving MMO. It doesn't exist in a vacuum like games for those consoles you mentioned. It's will and it must grow and get better and keep up with an increasingly sophisticated playerbase.

And, yes, I did get rid of my SNES. I loved those games at the time and have fond memories of my time playing them. But when I went back and played them, now, post HL2 and post Fallout, they actually are not truly comparable. There are games that surpass the older games in gameplay as well as graphics. That's what you want to encourage.