Stone Form Mesanna and The Twitter Guy

[Saint of Killers]

Oh my god, you are ridiculous.

After this reply, I am done responding to anything you ever post because it's clear that you are just a general chat warrior/lawyer that does not conceive what pvp really is.

 

[RuSini Neb]

Oh my god, you are ridiculous.

After this reply, I am done responding to anything you ever post because it's clear that you are just a general chat warrior/lawyer that does not conceive what pvp really is.

I pvped with frostbolt last week... u just mad...


did i do it right ??

 

[frostbolt]

Oh my god, you are ridiculous.

After this reply, I am done responding to anything you ever post because it's clear that you are just a general chat warrior/lawyer that does not conceive what pvp really is.

pvp = player vs player. if more than one player engage in combat with each other then it is pvp.

As far as your misconceptions about what "true pvp" is, that is an endless debate that spans across multiple games. One which has yet to be answered with absolute certainty.

So i highly doubt that your opinion on the subject is the "end all be all" source as far as what the true definition of "what pvp is" is concerned

 

[Flutter]

On my original topic.
I used to think it was my connection, but my ping to Catskills rarely goes over 40 anymore. I had new cable put in. Direct wired line. No issues.
I know for a fact my old computer was an issue. I didn't realize how much of an issue until I got this new rig. While it may not be super-sonic-god-like it is a very good set up. I have noticed a marked increase in my speed in game in both EC and CC. I can run around Luna at speeds I didn't know were possible with no load time. Web pages load up without me even realizing they are already loaded. I am faster than I ever was in UO. My spells, my running speed. The time it takes to recall.
With that being said, I can promise you there is either some sort of bug with stone form, or there is some exploit. Being in stone form should make you sluggish. You should move much slower than if you were on foot in no form. It's the sacrifice that is supposed to be made for the benefits of the form. The problem is it is not working correctly. Grab your Mystic and "race" a friend in an area that is lag free for you both. The person is stone form is supposed to be markedly slower. He wont be. This is the first issue with the form.
The second issue being either there is an exploit or bug that is allowing some people to run at mounted speed. I see this issue with a certain tamer who always has a super dragon in tow. He claims to be running the EC and that's why he's so fast. (I don't know where it got started that the EC is "faster" than the CC. Other than being able to not get stuck on trees I don't think there's that big of a difference)

Now I used to chalk it up to my computer not being the greatest. Now that my computer is pert near the greatest and I am still seeing an issue with this form, I decided to post about it.
The topic itself has veered off into another direction, but I hope that one of the Devs sees this post and at least sandboxes it and tests it out for themselves. The "slow movement penalty" for stone form doesn't exist.

 

[Storm]

Well flutter you are right that the speed of the stone form is not as slow as it once was ..this was done on purpose their were many people who wanted this changed as it was just to slow. it was on tc for a while and was tested by players and really until now has not been brought up as a issue!
As to running as fast as a horse or any mount that is not good and not sure how it is being done!

 

[Flutter]

Well flutter you are right that the speed of the stone form is not as slow as it once was ..this was done on purpose their were many people who wanted this changed as it was just to slow. it was on tc for a while and was tested by players and really until now has not been brought up as a issue!

Wow.
When was this? Do you know which patch it was in? I can't believe it didn't bother anyone that the penalty for that form was removed.

 

[frostbolt]

Wow.
When was this? Do you know which patch it was in? I can't believe it didn't bother anyone that the penalty for that form was removed.

It happened like 2 years ago..Stoneform was just not used before then because it was like Storm said simply too slow.

It probably didn't bother anyone because it was considered a fix for something that people simply do not use because lets face it why would anyone use something that makes them walk slower than a mongbat. Seriously its been fine for 2 years, the fact that you never noticed is probably because stone form is less of an issue than the group of select few people are suddenly making it out to be.

25 Mar 2010
Patch 65
Bug Fixes

• Forced walk was removed from Stone Form and Reaper form

Publish 65 Notes
Happy April Fools - *Evil Grin* You didn’t think we forgot, did you?
Mysticism Revamp

• Cleansing Winds
  • Changes
    • Cleansing Winds will now affect players in a small area around the target as well
    • Players or creatures may be the direct target of the Cleansing Winds spell, however, players in the area must be in the casters party in order to receive the beneficial effects of the spell.
    • Pets can be directly targeted, but will not receive the spell benefits as part of the area effect.
    • WARNING: This spell will flag the caster as a criminal if a criminal or murderer party member is close enough to the target to receive the benefits from the area of effect (be very careful of who you party with, especially in town)
    • This effect can hit up to 3 additional players beyond the primary target
    • The effectiveness of the spell is reduced by the number of targets affected
    • The total healing, cure chance, remove curse chance are based on the skill of the caster.
    • If a target is cured the healing they received will be reduced proportionately to the level of poison that was cured. If the cure fails, the target will not be healed.
• Spell Plague
  • Changes
    • Spell Plague hits the target with an explosion of chaos energy.
    • The residual energy from the chaos explosion can continue to erupt when the target takes additional damage.
    • Each subsequent explosion does decreasing amounts of damage, until the residual energy has been dissipated in a maximum of 3 explosions or after a duration of 8 seconds. There is a minimum of 2 seconds between each residual explosion.
    • If a target is already affected with a spell plague, each additional spell plague will take effect after the previous one expires. (The initial chaos explosion takes effect immediately and can trigger the secondary explosions of spell plague)
• Sleep/Mass Sleep
  • Changes
    • Sleep will no longer prevent targets from casting spells or attacking
    • Sleep will place the target in a state of stupor for a period determined by the caster’s skills and the target’s Resist Spells skill.
    • While in this state they will have their casting, casting recover, attack, and movement speed severely reduced.
    • If target receives damage during this period, the stupor effect will be broken
    • Targets will be immune to Sleep for 26 seconds after the initial stupor effect beings, and immune to Mass Sleep is for 20 seconds
• Enchant
  • Changes
    • Base duration has increased
    • Duration of the enchanted effect will scale based on the level of the spell enchanted
• Purge Magic
  • Changes
    • Players can only be purged once every 8 seconds
    • Players must have mysticism and focus/imbuing close to the level of the spell they are attempting to purge

New Effect
· If there are no valid beneficial wards that can be purged, the target will have their mana requirements to increase based on the skill of the caster for a duration of 8 seconds. Upon ending the disruption, magic energy will rush into the target causing an explosion of chaos energy
· The target can remove the disruption to their mana flow by doing damage to any other player or creature before the effect dispels itself. Additionally the damage taken by the target scales with how long the disruption has been in effect
· The target will be immune to purge effects for an additional 16 seconds if they are affected by the mana disruption.

• Healing Stone - This spell summons a healing stone into the caster’s backpack which is only usable by the caster and will heal the caster instantly upon use.

Changes:
· The healing stone will have stored life energy or healing points which determine how many times the stone can be used before being destroyed. (The life energy is determined by the casters mysticism and focus/imbuing skills)
· The maximum amount the stone can heal for in a single usage is determined by the caster’s mysticism and focus/imbuing skills)
· The stone now has healing energy which determines how much of the maximum healing can be used at a time. This healing energy is completely consumed with each use and must take time to recharge before being able to heal for the maximum amount.
· The cool down on healing usage for the stone is 2 seconds, and it takes 15 seconds to replenish the stone’s energy completely..
· The healing stone can now be used to cure poison. The chance to cure is based on the user’s mysticism and focus/imbuing skills. The life energy cost to cure poison is based on the level of poison. Failing to cure poison only costs 1/3rd of the life energy as curing.
· Curing will not affect the stone’s energy.
· Summoning time for the Healing Stone has been increased significantly
Gargoyle Wearable Alterations and Crafting

• Wing Armor was added to convert the back slot (currently only leather is available)
• Gargish Leather Talons have been added for conversion from footwear. (other material types will be in the future)
• Gargish half apron has been added to the gargoyle wearables
• Gargish glasses has been added to the gargoyle wearables
• Gargish sash has been added to the gargoyle wearables

Navrey Adjustments

• Navrey’s respawn timer has been reduced to 10 minutes
• Navrey’s drop rate has been increased

Gargoyle Racial Abilities Update
Berserk
· Once a gargoyle has lost 20% of his/her health, he/she gains 15% damage bonus and 3% SDI. This increases damage another increment for each 20% additional damage (maximum 60% damage bonus and 12% SDI).
Deadly Aim
· All Gargoyles are trained from childhood in the skill of Throwing, giving them a basic competence with missile weapons (minimum gargoyle skill in throwing is 200).
· Gargoyles receive a 5% bonus to hit that stacks with HCI and skill bonus.
· Gargoyle’s hit chance cap has been increased to 50%.
Mystic Insight
· Gargoyles have an intuitive understanding of Mysticism, allowing them to cast Mysticism spells without further training. (minimum gargoyle skill in Mysticism is 300).
· Gargoyles receive +2 Mana Regeneration which stacks with Meditation and Focus.


Titles Customization

• New titles customization menu is now available through the “Open Titles Menu” choice in the context menu on your paperdoll
• Titles may now be customized in the following locations
  • Paperdoll Name (prefix)
  • Paperdoll Name (Suffix)
  • Overhead Name (shown in your All Names and first line of your item properties tooltip)
  • Subtitle (shown in the second line of your item properties tooltip

Each title location will have different categories available, including
o Monster (Champion Spawns)
o Guild (Abbreviation & Custom Title)
o Reward (Community Collections & Special Events)
o Skills
o Fame/Karma (Reputation)
Additional Changes
o Skill Titles may now be used in your Overhead Name location (as a suffix, such as “the swordsman”) and required skill levels be above 90.0 to be available.
o Skill and monster titles may now be used in your Subtitle Location
o Several skills which have similar titles have been updated

Tents have returned to Gyspy Camps
· Gypsy Camps now spawn with their tents.
· The tents are now persistent and are no longer instantly deleted after creation
· The spawn locations of the treasure chests, campfire and kettle, trash pile, and gypsies are now randomized
· The template now spawns 4 to 6 gypsies instead of 4
· The gypsies and their treasure chests now occasionally spawn with enhanced loot. (Reagents, Gems, Checks or new jewelry pieces)
Bug Fixes

• Forced walk was removed from Stone Form and Reaper form
• New Artifacts will be dropping on Renowneds – Jade War Axe, Cavalry’s Folly, or the Basilisk Hide Breastplate have been added
• Added human artifacts to the following mobs in addition to the ones already on them, Abyssal, Medusa, Primeval Liche, Slasher, Stygian Dragon
• Renowned Ratmen’s loot has been adjusted, plus an imbuing gem will drop.
• Purple Potions will no longer teleport to the target location if the target has moved since the potion was thrown.
• You are now able to engrave the Gargish Chest
• Gems from the gem cart can now be used with Imbuing
• When planting the sugar cane seed you will no longer see A bowl of soft dirt with a Vibrant Peculiar Seed when using poppy dust, you will see A bowl of soft dirt with a Vibrant Peculiar Sugar Canes
• Players will be able to reach their bodies when they die on the ferry from the Chyloth’s Bell in Doom
• Fixed the Gardener’s Toolbox.
• Player’s are able to combine Abyssal cloth through the menu, and can use combined cloth for Imbuing
• Gargoyle Warrior template includes swords but they were entering the game with a fencing weapon, this was fixed and they will now enter with a dread sword
• Putrid Undead Gargoyles were given their own unique hue to identify them easier
• Cavern of the Discarded should no longer clog and stop working.
• Fame and Karma can now be viewed throughis you the loyalty gump.
• Purge Magic will no longer dispel Animal Forms
• Putrid Undead Gargoyles are spawning in the Holy City
• Stacked Pepta’s Satiety Cures will no longer remove a charge from ever

 

[Storm]

Wow.
When was this? Do you know which patch it was in? I can't believe it didn't bother anyone that the penalty for that form was removed.

This was done in publish 65

 

[Flutter]

So there's absolutely no penalty for being in stone form now?

 

[frostbolt]

So there's absolutely no penalty for being in stone form now?

You mean besides the fact that you can't move at mount speed and take a FC penalty? (hackers are irrelevant because they will move faster than you irregardless)

 

[Storm]

So there's absolutely no penalty for being in stone form now?

of course there are penalties ..swing speed -10,faster cast-2 ,and movement slowed it used to be walk and they removed that because it was way to slow,many people like i said tested this and there has not been a issue with the movement speed

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I hate when I hear this garbage of "This one player is faster than me on foot while I'm mounted!" I have tested this time after time, and there is no way even with a speedhack that a player on foot can out run someone on mount(When I tested, I went to the other coast and had a player from that cost on foot so they had the ping advantage and I still ran faster than them while they were on foot). So just stop right there.

The main issue that everyone has listed plenty of times over the years is the protection+stone form. It's too powerful making it so you can't poison, curse ect with buffed resists it is nearly impossible to kill this template 1v1(Either have to be a mystic as well, or catch a player off guard with a tailsman who is so bad they can't rescast a 2nd circle spell). The guy who said his scribe/weaver can kill a mystic in stoneform+prot that's laughable.

Also the argument is that your casting is slowed down in stoneform and it's "defensive". It's not as though you've lost your ability to cast anything offensive. You can be beyond defensive and not give up any offense. 7 mystics holding hailstorm with 1 healing the group is amazing both offensively and defensively. If you lost your ability to cast offensive spells in this form that would be one thing, but that's not the case. I'd take that as a trade off, they are almost invincible but have no offense. As it is, stone form+ prot is unbelievable.

 

[frostbolt]

I hate when I hear this garbage of "This one player is faster than me on foot while I'm mounted!" I have tested this time after time, and there is no way even with a speedhack that a player on foot can out run someone on mount(When I tested, I went to the other coast and had a player from that cost on foot so they had the ping advantage and I still ran faster than them while they were on foot). So just stop right there.

The main issue that everyone has listed plenty of times over the years is the protection+stone form. It's too powerful making it so you can't poison, curse ect with buffed resists it is nearly impossible to kill this template 1v1(Either have to be a mystic as well, or catch a player off guard with a tailsman who is so bad they can't rescast a 2nd circle spell). The guy who said his scribe/weaver can kill a mystic in stoneform+prot that's laughable.

Also the argument is that your casting is slowed down in stoneform and it's "defensive". It's not as though you've lost your ability to cast anything offensive. You can be beyond defensive and not give up any offense. 7 mystics holding hailstorm with 1 healing the group is amazing both offensively and defensively. If you lost your ability to cast offensive spells in this form that would be one thing, but that's not the case. I'd take that as a trade off, they are almost invincible but have no offense. As it is, stone form+ prot is unbelievable.

I already stated on the first page that this is obviously a poorly disguised nerf mystics thread. This thread has nothing to do with cheaters or speed hacking at all as evidenced by the OP's request in which she asks for opinions on stone form on the first page as well as her posts on the second page expressing resentment over the so called "stone form movement speed bug fix" in patch 65.

As for the second part. I guess i have to answer this yet again, because every new person to enter this thread brings up the exact same argument except worded differently every single time.

You lose offensive ability in stone form because on top of certain stat reductions that directly affect your ability to kill someone, you cannot chase down a mounted person to kill them and are essentially tied down to one spot....Going Defensive implies that you lose offensive ability. It does not mean you become a target dummy.

Why is 1v1 balanced?
I will quote myself

There is a saying, no one would play a healer or defensive class, or in this game's case template if said template/class can be burned down by 1 player.

Basically you can't kill me, but i also cannot kill you. I can hurt you, but there is no way I will get the kill, but neither am I a sitting duck. Which is the entire point of going into stone form to begin with. You take that away and why would anyone ever use it.


Now for a more detailed explanation.

1) Being in stone form + protection cuts down your FC and thus cuts back on the templates killing power.
Saying that you do not give up any offensive power in stone form even though you lose FC is completely untrue.
FC reduction has a pretty big impact in terms of killing power, something that is pretty much common knowledge for anyone that pvps as a caster.

2) Being unable to mount ensures that you will never kill anyone, and that if the fight moves on you will pretty much be left behind as well.

Arguing that stoneform should cause the caster to lose all ability to cast offensive spells is another overkill idea that would completely destroy the ability which anyone would realize if they give it even a modicum of thought. I don't feel like explaining such a simple concept for those unwilling to think so I'll just throw out 2 words that i mentioned already. Target Dummy

And finally just so that everyone realizes that I am not ignoring the argument about situations where there is more than one mystic.
You realize that using an argument about 10 mystics being unkillable is about the same as me mashing together an argument about magery being op because i can have 10 people precast flamestrike run up to one person and instantly kill them with a synchronized damage dump. Or arguing that alchemy and supernova potion is OP because i can have 10 people running alchemy and max enhance potions run up to another group of people who are bunched up together trying to defend a choke point or in one of those "grinder locations" and have everyone throw their supernova potions at the same time..

I can come up with all sorts of situations in which 10 of 1 thing is op when used in synchronized conjunction... which isn't even difficult to do if everyone is on a voice chat program. As such an argument which revolves around having a lot of one thing being op when used in conjunction whether offensively or defensively is quite unsound.


If one were to analyze all the posts that come up and give it some thought it is obvious that the problem lies not in stone form+protection but the fact that cleansing winds is aoe. Which allows everyone to heal each other at the same time resulting in unkillable status. Remove aoe healing, and thus reduce the survivability of this so called 10 mystic castle squad, without having to completely screw over the skill in its entirety.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

It has nothing to do with the fact that the heal is AoE. The problem is that in stoneform and no other form with protection, you can't use any ability that weakens the heal which is more potent than greater heal if you can't curse/ poison.

I've killed plenty of people in stoneform when I played a mystic so saying you can't is just foolish. Dexers especially get destroyed by protection mages, and mystics in stone form are probably the best dexer killers. Also it's even more amazing when you know what you're doing and pair it with something else, like necro.

So if this template is being played by someone who is not a completely wet behind the ears, you can most certainly kill someone in stoneform with protection.

It's not a big deal giving up FC conidering if you're going in protection you'll be at 0 fc any ways. This and the mounting is in the same boat, I have killed lots of people in stone fom with protection on so that defeats you saying it's not possible, when I have done it plenty of times when I was playing a mystic.

I'm not saying taking away offense in that form is the solution, but until something is done where you can beat that template on anything but a mystic it does need to be adjusted. No other template in game is like that, this combo is the only one that's countered with a same template.

Next people are talking about 1v1 and groups. The thing is say you have 4 people, in a 4v4 the mystics should win with ease, 4 people throwing hail storms on people that can be cursed is far more damaging than 4 people dropping flamestrikes on someone who can't be cursed and has an increased fire resistance of 75. The mystic group would crush the group who can't curse. Acting like it's even close to balanced is absurd. That's another aspect that I would be fine with, if your resists went down not up. In every other form there is some sort of give and take, wraith you lose fire, gain phys. Vamp form you lose 25 fire. In this form you just go up across the board with no penalty.

There does need to some sort of adjustment to this. It's not as if it's something new, people have complained about this for quite sometime. The Devs were doing well with fixing pvp until beastial suits came out, they are correcting their terrible mistake tomorrow and I hope they continue to do so with things that need to be adjusted. IE Mysticism, throwing, pets in pvp(the ones that "speedhack." How pets cast off screen, perhaps have pets actually cast like i've seen on free servers so you know an fs is coming for example and not just 5 spells at random off screen), and we'll see how dp is tomorrow. After that the only way they could really improve pvp would be taking other things back like the JoaT skill, sticky specials, things that use to make it where people played diverse templates.

 

[frostbolt]

The premise around my argument about not being able to get the kill while in stone form 1v1 revolves around the other player knowing when to run away. I agree that if said other player just stands there and casts, throws, w/e and never run they are going to die eventually. But if they run they will have time to get far away enough and heal before i get out of stone form and chase. They won't kill me because of higher resists and immunities, I won't kill them because I can't chase them down if they off screen before hitting 30% HP.

Yes 4 mystics will win vs 4 mages but my argument for groups is that if stoneform +protection is a defensive build that sacrifices FC and mobility which in turn sacrificing killing potential, then naturally the other team would have to bring in more people. If there are 4 mystic stoneform protectors standing around protecting a position then you will probably need to bring more people to make the fight swing in your favor. Theres nothing that prevents you from getting a fifth player and syncing 5 flame strikes on one guy instant killing him and retreating.

Things aren't always balanced around evenly matched teams where there is a set amount of people vs a set amount of people. It is especially true in this game where until very recently with arenas there simply is no such thing as organized pvp.

Of course either of us putting forth hypothetical situations in an attempt to discredit the others argument won't prove anything because you will say but I did this [...], and I will respond with but due to this variable then [...] etc as i have just done above. So this brings me to the next point, adjustments and solutions.

Things can be adjusted, but I do not abide with adjustments that makes them nonfunctional. Forgive me for sounding accusatory but seeing as how bestial suits were "adjusted" to the point where it actually makes the player weaker for wearing it (8 sec of non healing after berserk activates), and the fact that certain pvpers think that it needs to be nerfed more, I no longer believe that the pvp community actually knows what they are talking about in terms of balancing anything.

Lets imagine that I believe that pvp must be balanced with group pvp in mind, where there are a set number of people on both teams. In this case the benefits of stone form can be easily remedied by a simple buff to magery.
Simply put Mysticism can be "fixed" by buffing magery and making it so that dispel and maybe mass dispel removes buffs like the way purge magic does. You will no longer need a mystic to counter a mystic, and such a buff would not make mages overpowered against something else.

Throwing can be "fixed" by buffing archery weapons and making them more desirable

You don't need drastic nerfs to fix things when buffs to other class skills will do the same. Especially when nerfs affect more than just pvp but pvm as well.

 

[sativa green]

stoneform with 4 faster casting (to negate the -2) is awesome defense. to the OP, nobody is running at mount speed in stoneform without it being a glitch. i've seen players use the costume wands to change their appearance while still on a mount and it makes them run on foot at full speed, but its not possible while in stoneform, as it forces you off your mount.

 

[garillo]

After reading this thread, and all that has been laid out for those who do not understand, and continue to not understand..... I absolutely see why this game has been dumbed down so much, and lost its competetive edge as an innovative game.

Good to know I can leave a game for 11 years and come back more in the loop than those who have stayed... Able to make better arguments and valid points based on current game mechanics... In less than 5 months.

Edited to express my appreciation to my guild and those who have helped me, and prevented me from playing at the level of a majority of these posters.

 

[frostbolt]

stoneform with 4 faster casting (to negate the -2) is awesome defense. to the OP, nobody is running at mount speed in stoneform without it being a glitch. i've seen players use the costume wands to change their appearance while still on a mount and it makes them run on foot at full speed, but its not possible while in stoneform, as it forces you off your mount.

first of which is not possible when running with protection. Second of which halloween costume movement speed was fixed already. This does not include items like the goblin transformation items in which you can still move at mounted speed while wearing

After reading this thread, and all that has been laid out for those who do not understand, and continue to not understand..... I absolutely see why this game has been dumbed down so much, and lost its competetive edge as an innovative game.

Good to know I can leave a game for 11 years and come back more in the loop than those who have stayed... Able to make better arguments and valid points based on current game mechanics... In less than 5 months.

Edited to express my appreciation to my guild and those who have helped me, and prevented me from playing at the level of a majority of these posters.

The only good idea you had in this thread is mass purge, which i borrowed as a solution as a buff for the magery skill. The rest of your "arguments" were nothing but complaints about complainers and some jab at an attempt to define what skill means in pvp.

Its actually you who do not understand, if you think the game has been "dumbed down". UO has more skills, more items, more armor and weapon stats, than ever before. 11 years ago there was what? Certainly much much less than what there is now.

UO lost its competitive edge because it is a 2d game from the ancient past as far as computers are concerned. Seriously, making such grandiose statements about the "good old days" when the game has tarnished moreso due to the passage of time, than because of a "dumbing down" of systems....

 

[CovenantX]

Throwing can be "fixed" by buffing archery
Mysticism can be "fixed" by buffing magery and making it so that dispel and maybe mass dispel dispels buffs as well like the way purge magic does.

You don't need drastic nerfs to fix things when buffs to other class skills will do the same. Especially when nerfs affect more than just pvp but pvm as well.

The throwing "fix", What about melee skills? Throwers hit harder & faster & Obviously at range than any weapon skill in UO + they get to chug without using the "balanced" property due to one handed weapons... OP

Mystic's vs other casters, Mystics offense is fine (with the exception of hailstorm not splitting damage when hitting multiple targets) it's the defenses that mystics have over non-mystics.


They could remove the 8 second cool down on purging a single target, AND add purge to a magery spellbook. Also add a hitspell for Weapons, with the "purge" effect.
Then it would be fair and you wouldn't need to be a mystic to kill a mystic, I'm not saying its completely impossible to kill someone in stoneform + protection without being able to purge them... but its unnecessarily hard to do so


IMO Poisoning, Throwing, and Mysticism are the only thing's that are ruining pvp atm as far as game mechanic. If Throwing & Mysticism had not been added to UO, Pvp would be perfect imo

when you NEED a specific template to beat a specific template it's unbalanced (pvp) I could see NEEDING a specific template for Pvm though if this ever were to arise.

 

[frostbolt]

The throwing "fix", What about melee skills? Throwers hit harder & faster & Obviously at range than any weapon skill in UO + they get to chug without using the "balanced" property due to one handed weapons... OP

Mystic's vs other casters, Mystics offense is fine (with the exception of hailstorm not splitting damage when hitting multiple targets) it's the defenses that mystics have over non-mystics.


They could remove the 8 second cool down on purging a single target, AND add purge to a magery spellbook. Also add a hitspell for Weapons, with the "purge" effect.
Then it would be fair and you wouldn't need to be a mystic to kill a mystic, I'm not saying its completely impossible to kill someone in stoneform + protection without being able to purge them... but its unnecessarily hard to do so


IMO Poisoning, Throwing, and Mysticism are the only thing's that are ruining pvp atm as far as game mechanic. If Throwing & Mysticism had not been added to UO, Pvp would be perfect imo

when you NEED a specific template to beat a specific template it's unbalanced (pvp) I could see NEEDING a specific template for Pvm though if this ever were to arise.

Obviously you buff archery and melee to have the same benefits as throwing. It wouldn't be unbalanced if everyone is on an even footing yes?

Splitting damage is a horrible mechanic, one that people have been asking to have removed over and over again from magery. In fact a certain someone in this very thread who defended damage split seemed to have change his mind about the fact in the course of one day.

You add a purge to everything and no one will ever buff themselves again, because it will fall off the moment you engage combat. This is why i said, think about the consequences of proposed "changes" before suggesting them.

Theres nothing wrong with needing a template to beat another one. We already have that as it is. Example- as stated by a poster before me. Protection mages beat dexxers. You need to bring something else to kill a protection mage on an even footing.

Mysticism saved caster pvm, without mysticism casters would still be stuck with a horrible summon in the face of current pvm content difficulty. You can't suggest deletions as a fix, especially whenthe something is now an integral part of the other part of the game.

 

[Phangs_of_Phage]

Buffing the other weapon skills is not the answer lol. That would leave all caster SOL

 

[frostbolt]

Buffing the other weapon skills is not the answer lol. That would leave all caster SOL

Whats this, isn't that what stone form, protection, and parry is for? or did everyone suddenly forget about what an "op and unkillable" combination this is, capable of chasing down and killing people regardless of what they play and being invincible in groups of 5-10?
/sarcasm
Talk about a one track mind.

 

[sativa green]

don't need protection if you can run 4/6 casting with stoneform. immune to poisoners, curses and get better resists. can easily kill people because the -2 casting is the only issue (which gets negated) other than being stuck on foot

 

[CovenantX]

Theres nothing wrong with needing a template to beat another one. We already have that as it is. Example- as stated by a poster before me. Protection mages beat dexxers. You need to bring something else to kill a protection mage on an even footing.

but the thing is a protection mage can still die against a dexer. a protection stone-form mystic cannot unless they are really bad or they client crash.

If Hailstorm doesn't get a nerf & all other Target-able AoE spells [meteor/chainlightening] stop splitting damage [it would be great for pvm....] for pvp it would be auto-kill like how mystic [in group fights] is right now.

you get 4-5 mystics [without even cursing] to drop hailstorm at the same time any amount of people in the radius of the hailstorms in all 70s will die instantly pretty much, and If they don't one of the 5 mystics have insta-boulder to finish em off.

I don't see why anyone would say stone-form + protection isn't OP unless it's part of their template and they have trouble fighting with it. I've played my mystic in stoneform + prot a couple times and unless there's another mystic or theres 2-3 vs me in stoneform/prot it's impossible to die. RC, SP, Hailstorm,sleep hailstorm it's over and if they run... who cares, they won't kill someone in stoneform prot until they can purge you, and even in 1v1 purge.

Kind of like Poisoner vs Non-Poisoner, if your a Noxxer fighting someone without poisoning and also not immune to poison..... it's hard as hell to keep them from healing (with poison) just because of the passive cure people get from poisoning skill. taking away from defensive timing because of a passive cure ruins dueling and is even worse when everyone runs from you because they suck at curing when they're out of pots.
not only is it hard to keep them from healing, it's easy for them to keep you from curing. <--- One of these two bonuses should be removed.


How good would pvp be without Throwing or Mysticism right now?

Also it's about time they make cross healers attack-able if they're healing someone flagged to an aggressor eh

 

[dukarlo]

The bottom line in UO is that players take advantage of things. Whether there is a bug for easy gold, fast skill gain, or a skillset that is easy and powerful to play etc. The point pvpers are making in this thread is that everyone is on a mystic at the big fights. Big fights are getting fewer and fewer and the limited template viability doesnt help. When there is a big fight its the same thing over and over. 10 mystics stacked up on a chokepoint casting 1 of 3 spells while in pro and stoneform. RC, hailstorm or cleansing winds. Because of mysticism being the way it is, that is all the big fights are now. Considering there is magery, necro, bushido, ninja, archers/ swords etc there should be tons and tons of different tactics being used but again. Its just the same 3 spells ftw over and over again. The reality is if everyone is on a mystic(which they are) its overpowered and needs to be balanced so that other templates are viable too.

 

[garillo]

first of which is not possible when running with protection. Second of which halloween costume movement speed was fixed already. This does not include items like the goblin transformation items in which you can still move at mounted speed while wearing


The only good idea you had in this thread is mass purge, which i borrowed as a solution as a buff for the magery skill. The rest of your "arguments" were nothing but complaints about complainers and some jab at an attempt to define what skill means in pvp.

Its actually you who do not understand, if you think the game has been "dumbed down". UO has more skills, more items, more armor and weapon stats, than ever before. 11 years ago there was what? Certainly much much less than what there is now.

UO lost its competitive edge because it is a 2d game from the ancient past as far as computers are concerned. Seriously, making such grandiose statements about the "good old days" when the game has tarnished moreso due to the passage of time, than because of a "dumbing down" of systems....

This game has in fact been dumbed down very much thankyou. If you fail to see how, it's probably because they're catering to *gasp* You.

Players wanting more and more risk free templates that require little or no reactivity, adaption to tactics, and "skill" must mean this game is advancing to reward those who take the time to intimately learn the ins and outs of the game.

 

[frostbolt]

This game has in fact been dumbed down very much thankyou. If you fail to see how, it's probably because they're catering to *gasp* You.

Players wanting more and more risk free templates that require little or no reactivity, adaption to tactics, and "skill" must mean this game is advancing to reward those who take the time to intimately learn the ins and outs of the game.

Nah at this point you are just spouting nonsense, in fact I'm starting to think there's something wrong with your brain considering that you are unable to grasp simple logic.

11 years ago there was only magery for casting and dexxers pretty much had nothing but auto attack and gasp, you probably only needed to press "3 buttons" because there was nothing else to click. Auto attack takes so much skill man, you must be proud of your auto attack "skillz" 11 years ago. Or perhaps, maybe you played a mage tank and ran around flame striking all the poor dexxers who only had autoattack?

Please try again. But this time, keep in mind that
1) your definition of skill = uses more than 3 buttons
Therefore the more class skills they create the more buttons you have to press, and going by your logic, the game has in fact become more advanced. Which is the opposite of what you are attempting to claim now.

I love how you refer to an era of the game where there was nothing at all for dexxers, where mages dominated everybody, and then proceed to talk about all this stuff involving "reactivity, adaptation, and tactics" when those things barely existed due to game mechanic limitations.

It's time to take off those rose tinted glasses you're wearing and start living in the present.

 

[RuSini Neb]

Nah at this point you are just spouting nonsense, in fact I'm starting to think there's something wrong with your brain considering that you are unable to grasp simple logic.

11 years ago there was only magery for casting and dexxers pretty much had nothing but auto attack and gasp, you probably only needed to press "3 buttons" because there was nothing else to click. Auto attack takes so much skill man, you must be proud of your auto attack "skillz" 11 years ago. Or perhaps, maybe you played a mage tank and ran around flame striking all the poor dexxers who only had autoattack?

Please try again. But this time, keep in mind that
1) your definition of skill = uses more than 3 buttons
Therefore the more class skills they create the more buttons you have to press, and going by your logic = the game has become more advanced. Which is the opposite of what you are attempting to claim now.

I love how you refer to an era of the game where there was nothing at all for dexxers and where mages dominated everybody, and then proceed to talk about all this stuff involving "reactivity, adaptation, and tactics" when those things barely existed due to game mechanic limitations.

don't forget to mention the fact... lol there were no resists or any real requirements for suit building.. besides getting as high of an ac as you can :c . and yeah it was totaly mad skill watching 10 reds set in a dungeon invised in a hall way to kill new players... lul that was what pvp was back then... there were no mass killing like now, because u die red.. u lost stats tell you regained them.. Factions and what not came out later iirc... I dont even think Chaos and order were in the game at release was it ???? ( could be wrong on the chaos order deal ) pvp pre aos = getting a group of reds to hunt down one or two blues.. sometimes you had the notopks that would pop up /iguess........


hence why they called them Pkers and not pvpers....

 

[SugarSmacks]

Ran into the 10 stone form mystics last night. I am assuming it is the ones Saint is referring to as i saw him die 4 times alone, and i wasnt even following him.

Said mystics tried there little grinder, and died, all but one, it was a pile of dead stone form people. No we did not have overwhelming numbers, it was about tactful execution. I believe we had maybe 3 mystics pushing them with the rest of us.

I believe i see alot of people on here demanding one template be changed because they believe theirs should work in every situation. It actually amuses me watching a bunch of people all who have ninja on their temp, poised to run at the first sign of danger, complain this template couldnt push a grinder. But the problem is its not one person with this apparent learning disability, its an infectious spread of bad pvprs who think that 80% of their guild of 30 running on ninja/throwers just isnt enough throwers to put in the game *cough crew cough*.

Im sorry you believe this template is overpowered, it didnt seem to overpowered to me as i jumped into the grinder 1st and stood over all but the 1 apparent intelligent guildy who fled for his life.

Stone form pro overpowered? lol its not overpowered because you cant kill it on your lame run away template it gets plenty owned by the right templates.

No one template should own all other templates examples poisoning and throwing .....lame

Why is this the only place there are big fights? Because this is the only place where speedhacking cant be completly abused, but thats why we strayed off the fact the topic was about speedhacing basically to begin with anyways eh.
If you havent seen players in this game that move at mounted speed on foot yet, then apparently you arent looking hard enough. Hey what was Jeff Skalaskis answer again? O yea do nothing, that will just bring in the players LOL!

 

[CovenantX]

The bottom line in UO is that players take advantage of things. Whether there is a bug for easy gold, fast skill gain, or a skillset that is easy and powerful to play etc. The point pvpers are making in this thread is that everyone is on a mystic at the big fights. Big fights are getting fewer and fewer and the limited template viability doesnt help. When there is a big fight its the same thing over and over. 10 mystics stacked up on a chokepoint casting 1 of 3 spells while in pro and stoneform. RC, hailstorm or cleansing winds. Because of mysticism being the way it is, that is all the big fights are now. Considering there is magery, necro, bushido, ninja, archers/ swords etc there should be tons and tons of different tactics being used but again. Its just the same 3 spells ftw over and over again. The reality is if everyone is on a mystic(which they are) its overpowered and needs to be balanced so that other templates are viable too.

100% Correct, the big fights are nothing more than Boring as hell now. the only time it's somewhat interesting is when people are Getting to the fight before a choke is set up OR they are leaving it.

Poisoning & Throwing are OP. but I definitely saw pretty much Every pvper here on stratics complaining about the bestial suit being OP and it does basically the same thing as Stoneform protection in 1v1 situations. honestly though Bestial suit wearers were easier to kill than stoneform prot. This is also true atleast the bestial suit you could stop people from healing, they could run. but when low hp stam drains fast and unless they spam refresh there's no way out of it other than smoke bombs, and if you can't kill someone because they hid that's because you're not fast enough with spells that hit hidden/stealthed targets or conflag pots.

it's pretty bad when yew-gate is the best pvp in UO right now. maybe they should revamp champ spawns to have the bosses do a 5 screen radius mass purge every 10 seconds.
if no one has buffs everyone's easy to kill? what's the harm in that... it separates the good pvpers from the bad no?

NO WAIT!! that would nerf sampires =[. but it's not about pvm anyway it's about pvp in dungeons trying to get items exclusive to fel spawns/harry most people only use sampires for champs with auto-dispell anyway, otherwise its RC spam because mystics have an amazing skill that's useful in both pvm & pvp.

 

[garillo]

Nah at this point you are just spouting nonsense, in fact I'm starting to think there's something wrong with your brain considering that you are unable to grasp simple logic.

11 years ago there was only magery for casting and dexxers pretty much had nothing but auto attack and gasp, you probably only needed to press "3 buttons" because there was nothing else to click. Auto attack takes so much skill man, you must be proud of your auto attack "skillz" 11 years ago. Or perhaps, maybe you played a mage tank and ran around flame striking all the poor dexxers who only had autoattack?

Please try again. But this time, keep in mind that
1) your definition of skill = uses more than 3 buttons
Therefore the more class skills they create the more buttons you have to press, and going by your logic, the game has in fact become more advanced. Which is the opposite of what you are attempting to claim now.

I love how you refer to an era of the game where there was nothing at all for dexxers, where mages dominated everybody, and then proceed to talk about all this stuff involving "reactivity, adaptation, and tactics" when those things barely existed due to game mechanic limitations.

It's time to take off those rose tinted glasses you're wearing and start living in the present.

Your inability to recognize that I was referencing "3 buttons" to no reactivity, adaptations, etc makes me laugh. Try exercising some deductive reasoning. People don't always cite these things because they're crying, but because they are an actual imbalance. I'm sorry playing stealthers and stoneforms makes you feel that you are good. There are real problems with balance in game, and as cited before, one major one is with mystics and only exacerbated by 3rd party program usage.

I can tell you how it works, and why, but I cannot understand and apply it for you.

As to pking back in the day, I'm sorry you struggled and had to spend your time in trammel. It sounds like you may have struggled in the lich lord room or somewhere with ambushes. Some of us were real pkers, and were able to win a majority of the fights no matter what template we were playing.

I can find no validity to your statements, as they all scream "Mysticism is my crutch". Cite game mechanics, weaknesses, what CAN take them down in the small groups (or 1v1 without massive need for more consumables and ward removing talismans) etc if anyone is to take you seriously. They are hands down the easiest template to nullify everything else on the board with minimal effort/skill/game knowledge.

*Still will be referencing mystics as 3 button templates. Both literally, and as pointed out in my first paragraph of this post.*

 

[RuSini Neb]

Your inability to recognize that I was referencing "3 buttons" to no reactivity, adaptations, etc makes me laugh. Try exercising some deductive reasoning. People don't always cite these things because they're crying, but because they are an actual imbalance. I'm sorry playing stealthers and stoneforms makes you feel that you are good. There are real problems with balance in game, and as cited before, one major one is with mystics and only exacerbated by 3rd party program usage.

I can tell you how it works, and why, but I cannot understand and apply it for you.

As to pking back in the day, I'm sorry you struggled and had to spend your time in trammel. It sounds like you may have struggled in the lich lord room or somewhere with ambushes. Some of us were real pkers, and were able to win a majority of the fights no matter what template we were playing.

I can find no validity to your statements, as they all scream "Mysticism is my crutch". Cite game mechanics, weaknesses, what CAN take them down in the small groups (or 1v1 without massive need for more consumables and ward removing talismans) etc if anyone is to take you seriously. They are hands down the easiest template to nullify everything else on the board with minimal effort/skill/game knowledge.

*Still will be referencing mystics as 3 button templates. Both literally, and as pointed out in my first paragraph of this post.*

lol i am citing pretrammel you sir need to learn how to comprehend, but nice try. and when did i say anything about this template or that template... I am just stating a fact there is more real pvp today then there was before.. pretram 90% of pvp was red gank fest on newbs.... No reason to defend what i did in pretram days as well /shrug because no evidence to cite so no matter what i say it could be considered not true /yawn lololololol

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Well we can see how many issues are coming out of this. If you see 5 or 6 people that are the same, then that tells you that the other templates don't have enough power. I think there is a solution that would help equal all templates but they will have to be connected by core principles and advantages will have to be given to skill sets that are absolute but yet controllable by setting certain values to combat them.

The issue that I see with PvP seems to be a falicy. It is more based on the scales of possibility. For example: Having a skill and then it being impossible for your skill to work. This is also tied into PvM. So, the split between both worlds continues as each focus is individualized rather than seen as a whole, meaning one fix here breaks 2 things somewhere else.

For example: If you were to nerf stone form, not only would you be going backwards and repatching but you would not be creating a solution. If you look at it from the perspective of any single skill or even more professionally of every single skill then you create a reasonable outlet for each skill. Again, with the absolute it becomes impossible and the scales are shifted.

A good example would be, Poisoning because you're starting with a focus of why poisoning does not work even though you have 100 skill.

So, if you go up to a spawn and you poison it and then you get the message the poison has no affect, this is creating an unbalance. It is making the skill useless. This should never happen and it also affects other systems where the idea becomes common place that it is ok to accept this absolute without any control or strategically placed barrier rather it is hard wired.

So, these systems need a common place, a factor that is adjusted based on the individuals choices or solutions.

If you can no longer come up with a solution then it is no longer fun and to go the opposite direction makes no sense.

Just a side note: To give you an example: We would go hunting, deamon claw and we would lead everything away except for the deamon and then hunt the deamon. Now, the devs see us having fun hunting the deamon but rather than adjusting the game to be more fun by adding more deamons or more of what we want they do the opposite by adding more spawn to make it more difficult. So, now, I can't hunt in my favorite place. I can't do what I wanted to. The scales have been tipped to control my fun. So, upon this test, after the change, I could no longer have fun or hunt.

So, with this type of idea, when you create the system, you automatically create the outcome and you dictate the possibility.

Now, one might say, why not go some where else? but then I ask myself, why create that area at all then?

Also, there should be a connection between players when you attack someone, it should automatically create a link so that if one player is using a type of hack it will automatically reset timings that are comparable with the other player. For example: If one player gets to move so quickly then once he engages another player, he is also given the same foot speed and it checks to make sure that those speeds are correct, some type of area binding, almost as if they are tethered or even some type of stop motion if the speed is to fast.

So, rather than using the server code, you would actually use a type of game play code that would just run checks then ask the server the position and then recheck the position and form to see if the movement was possible or not.

 

[RuSini Neb]

Well we can see how many issues are coming out of this. If you see 5 or 6 people that are the same, then that tells you that the other templates don't have enough power. I think there is a solution that would help equal all templates but they will have to be connected by core principles and advantages will have to be given to skill sets that are absolute but yet controllable by setting certain values to combat them.

The issue that I see with PvP seems to be a falicy. It is more based on the scales of possibility. For example: Having a skill and then it being impossible for your skill to work. This is also tied into PvM. So, the split between both worlds continues as each focus is individualized rather than seen as a whole, meaning one fix here breaks 2 things somewhere else.

For example: If you were to nerf stone form, not only would you be going backwards and repatching but you would not be creating a solution. If you look at it from the perspective of any single skill or even more professionally of every single skill then you create a reasonable outlet for each skill. Again, with the absolute it becomes impossible and the scales are shifted.

A good example would be, Poisoning because you're starting with a focus of why poisoning does not work even though you have 100 skill.

So, if you go up to a spawn and you poison it and then you get the message the poison has no affect, this is creating an unbalance. It is making the skill useless. This should never happen and it also affects other systems where the idea becomes common place that it is ok to accept this absolute without any control or strategically placed barrier rather it is hard wired.

So, these systems need a common place, a factor that is adjusted based on the individuals choices or solutions.

If you can no longer come up with a solution then it is no longer fun and to go the opposite direction makes no sense.

Just a side note: To give you an example: We would go hunting, deamon claw and we would lead everything away except for the deamon and then hunt the deamon. Now, the devs see us having fun hunting the deamon but rather than adjusting the game to be more fun by adding more deamons or more of what we want they do the opposite by adding more spawn to make it more difficult. So, now, I can't hunt in my favorite place. I can't do what I wanted to. The scales have been tipped to control my fun. So, upon this test, after the change, I could no longer have fun or hunt.

So, with this type of idea, when you create the system, you automatically create the outcome and you dictate the possibility.

Now, one might say, why not go some where else? but then I ask myself, why create that area at all then?

Also, there should be a connection between players when you attack someone, it should automatically create a link so that if one player is using a type of hack it will automatically reset timings that are comparable with the other player. For example: If one player gets to move so quickly then once he engages another player, he is also given the same foot speed and it checks to make sure that those speeds are correct, some type of area binding, almost as if they are tethered or even some type of stop motion if the speed is to fast.

So, rather than using the server code, you would actually use a type of game play code that would just run checks then ask the server the position and then recheck the position and form to see if the movement was possible or not.

I like your idea at the end with binding the two combatants.. but i feel that the i/o time you would add would be a nightmare :c ie how many checks is the server going to do per individual fights... take that multiply it times the amount of fights going on at the same time ;c ....

 

[frostbolt]

Your inability to recognize that I was referencing "3 buttons" to no reactivity, adaptations, etc makes me laugh. Try exercising some deductive reasoning. People don't always cite these things because they're crying, but because they are an actual imbalance. I'm sorry playing stealthers and stoneforms makes you feel that you are good. There are real problems with balance in game, and as cited before, one major one is with mystics and only exacerbated by 3rd party program usage.

I can tell you how it works, and why, but I cannot understand and apply it for you.

As to pking back in the day, I'm sorry you struggled and had to spend your time in trammel. It sounds like you may have struggled in the lich lord room or somewhere with ambushes. Some of us were real pkers, and were able to win a majority of the fights no matter what template we were playing.

I can find no validity to your statements, as they all scream "Mysticism is my crutch". Cite game mechanics, weaknesses, what CAN take them down in the small groups (or 1v1 without massive need for more consumables and ward removing talismans) etc if anyone is to take you seriously. They are hands down the easiest template to nullify everything else on the board with minimal effort/skill/game knowledge.

*Still will be referencing mystics as 3 button templates. Both literally, and as pointed out in my first paragraph of this post.*

Nah u were actually making a comparison between difficulty of arcade games to number of buttons necessary to equate to skill in UO. Don't try and make your statements mean more than they actually do especially when there were already several posts after the fact questioning your logic which you never responded to or defended against.

Maybe you should take an English class, so that you realize that your "deep statements" only hold secondary meaning in your own mind and in one elses.

So which real pk spec were you? mage tank or auto attack dexxer? It seems to me like you are trying to avoid certain facts that all point to how "skill-less and uninvolved" the game was 11 years ago.

No one is even talking about trammel in this thread, and at the rate you are going, your posts are about to contain more logical fallacies than the guy on page 1.

Oh and,

I can find no validity to your statements because all you do is cite features. And if anyone is to take you seriously maybe you should "cite game mechanics, weaknesses, and what CAN'T take mystics down in small groups".

Post something that contributes to the topic and maybe I will oblige you with more evidence and actual argumentation, as I do with anyone else who can form a coherent and logical argument with examples and a proposed solution that does not unbalance the other half of the game.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Run check one time each time a new argo is so that a wider range can be checked.
With one each time you set the cool down to the flee or log out timer befor a new check would be granted so as to almost randomly check ppl that are starting the fights and there attack ee's. Just once to check for un do timing.

 

[Lord X]

Don't try and make your statements mean more than they actually do especially when there were already several posts after the fact questioning your logic which you never responded to or defended against.

You do realize that you yourself are guilty of this very thing? Many reasons Stone Form/Prot etc are OP were cited that you have never responded to (First page mainly). Unless of course you answered it with "if you cant push them leave them to what they were doing and let them finish" and "if you cant beat me its ok cuz I cant RUN AFTER you" btw..... in that last scenario bolas are a thing you know?

Wether or not you want to get your 25 stat scrolls in peace without being raided doesn't play into the fact that the form is/isn't OP. You're in fel, expect to fight for your rewards or settle for what you get in tram.

Ran into the 10 stone form mystics last night. I am assuming it is the ones Saint is referring to as i saw him die 4 times alone, and i wasnt even following him.

Said mystics tried there little grinder, and died, all but one, it was a pile of dead stone form people. No we did not have overwhelming numbers, it was about tactful execution. I believe we had maybe 3 mystics pushing them with the rest of us.

Somehow I doubt you did it with JUST 3 mystics OR not by having overwhelming numbers. Even if you did do it you still had to use a temp to beat a same temp. Other then the multitudes of people you recruit from the servers you play, 8 outta 10 chars in your guild ARE mystics. Especially ones you take spawns and choke points with. You can't tell me more then half your crew were not mystics.

 

[Petra Fyde]

A number of posts that offered no input relative to the topic have been removed.

 

[Lord X]

A number of posts that offered no input relative to the topic have been removed.

So glad I took the time to finally post in this thread. I take it relative is ......... relative... lol.

 

[Petra Fyde]

sorry, guess I overshot. Post replaced.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

You do realize that you yourself are guilty of this very thing? Many reasons Stone Form/Prot etc are OP were cited that you have never responded to (First page mainly). Unless of course you answered it with "if you cant push them leave them to what they were doing and let them finish" and "if you cant beat me its ok cuz I cant RUN AFTER you" btw..... in that last scenario bolas are a thing you know?

Wether or not you want to get your 25 stat scrolls in peace without being raided doesn't play into the fact that the form is/isn't OP. You're in fel, expect to fight for your rewards or settle for what you get in tram.








Somehow I doubt you did it with JUST 3 mystics OR not by having overwhelming numbers. Even if you did do it you still had to use a temp to beat a same temp. Other then the multitudes of people you recruit from the servers you play, 8 outta 10 chars in your guild ARE mystics. Especially ones you take spawns and choke points with. You can't tell me more then half your crew were not mystics.

no only 7 out of 10 in DC are mystic gargs, the other 3 out of 10 are throwers so they can dismount people.

 

[SugarSmacks]

Somehow I doubt you did it with JUST 3 mystics OR not by having overwhelming numbers. Even if you did do it you still had to use a temp to beat a same temp. Other then the multitudes of people you recruit from the servers you play, 8 outta 10 chars in your guild ARE mystics. Especially ones you take spawns and choke points with. You can't tell me more then half your crew were not mystics.

Overwhelming numbers? Have you played Lake Superior lately?

Tb, Sl, Com, and Minax all form one team while using BSR/FVQ as meatshields, they can run anywhere from 20 - 40 people deep. Oh and they claim to be bringing another 20 from Atlantic lol.

I believe we had roughly 10 people that day, and no they werent all mystics, people dont want to play mystics sorry, it didnt require a bunch of them, it just required people to know what they are doing.

I enjoy Farimir talking about numbers because i cant even recall the last time i saw him fight outside of 30 people lol.

Please do not claim templates are impossible because you can not beat it. Odds are you arent as "good" as you think you are. If your "main" is a poisoner or thrower, you were never good to begin with.
Or better yet you can be like Farimir and when someone says arena to you, you log off and claim victory, lol, now lets listen to him about pvp, because the pvp he knows is running away.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

It is balanced because they won't be able to kill you either.

They cast slower than you, they can't mount or run at mount speed (hacking aside but this was a poorly disguised nerf mystics thread anyway).

If a mystic mage in stone form + protection were able to take you down to 10% hp quickly then chase you down (without speed hacks) and kill you, then you might have a convincing argument. This is however not the case, especially because if it is a one vs one there's nothing preventing you from throwing on protection yourself and going on defensive until he decides to leave stone form.

Obviously you've never fought a Mystic/Mage/Tamer (Either that or you play one and rely on it as a crutch). They can sit in Stone Form+Protection and spam Cleansing Winds all day while they're Greater Dragon or Dread Warhorse works you over, while they themself are at no risk of dying pretty much. Fighting against one of them is a losing situation. They just heal through everything you throw at them, while their pet does massive amounts of damage, and their pet really isn't a better option for targeting either. Frostbolt, it seems your answer and counter to Mystic/Mages in Stone Form+Protection is just "Run away". What a great counter...

One step to balance this, is to make the 6th level "Dispel" spell purge buffs when you target a non summon, based on the casters Magery or Eval skill. Also, have the "Hit Dispel" property on weapons behave the same way, but be based on the Warrior's Focus skill.

I assure you no one can move on foot at mounted speed lol.

In my close to 15 years of playing UO, i've seen it alot. It's become increasingly common within the past 4 years.

Again i ask whats the problem of playing defense over offense.

The problem is, when no offense exists to overcome/counter said defense. That is where the imbalance is. It's like having a game where you can play Superman, but Kryptonite doesn't exist in the game. In that case, only Superman can beat Superman. Batman, Robin, Wonder Woman, Wolverine, The Hulk, etc are just plain SoL when facing Superman in such a game.

And finally just so that everyone realizes that I am not ignoring the argument about situations where there is more than one mystic.
You realize that using an argument about 10 mystics being unkillable is about the same as me mashing together an argument about magery being op because i can have 10 people precast flamestrike run up to one person and instantly kill them with a synchronized damage dump.

Yep, have all 10 of your Mages run up and sync dump FS on a single Mystic/Mage and kill him, but then the other 9 Mystic/Mages sync dump Hailstorm, and kill all 10 Mages. Balanced, right?

The premise around my argument about not being able to get the kill while in stone form 1v1 revolves around the other player knowing when to run away. I agree that if said other player just stands there and casts, throws, w/e and never run they are going to die eventually. But if they run they will have time to get far away enough and heal before i get out of stone form and chase. They won't kill me because of higher resists and immunities, I won't kill them because I can't chase them down if they off screen before hitting 30% HP.

You do realize that a Mystic Mage in Stone Form+Prot can still Bola someone, right? Putting that person at the same movement speed as the Mystic/Mage.

lol i am citing pretrammel you sir need to learn how to comprehend, but nice try. and when did i say anything about this template or that template... I am just stating a fact there is more real pvp today then there was before.. pretram 90% of pvp was red gank fest on newbs.... No reason to defend what i did in pretram days as well /shrug because no evidence to cite so no matter what i say it could be considered not true /yawn lololololol

A red killed a blue, the blue lost maybe 1-2 hours worth of loot at most (Unless they were stupid enough to carry their house key on them). A blue killed a red, the red lost 1-2 weeks worth of character progression. Hence why blues would hide on the porch of a house at the Chaos Shrine, and rez kill reds that rezzed there, in order to grief them and bring their character back to newbie skills. Don't act like all blues were "innocent", alot of them were douches back then too. Alot of the PvP back in the early days, was groups of PKs vs groups of Anti-PKs.