I have been speaking against powergaming and the building on "haves" in the game as opposed to the "haves not" players for years, but I was often criticised for my thinking.....
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- Thread starter UOKaiser
- Start date
- Watchers 6
I have been speaking against powergaming and the building on "haves" in the game as opposed to the "haves not" players for years, but I was often criticised for my thinking.....
That is why I was suggesting, a while ago, to bring to Ultima Online "Buy Vendors" as opposed to the "Sell" Vendors which we currently have.
Players looking for something to buy could post it with a set price they are willing to pay for the item on the Buy Vendor and those all who want to sell would browse the vendor and sell the item(s) if ok with the price........
Not sure what happened of that thread, was it sent to rants 'n spiels forum perhaps ?
Lord Gareth
UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
Agree on all of them. Hell I don't even get in game anymore. Why do I have to interact with anyone? I have everything I ever needed what do I need from them?
This is, I think, one of the biggest handicaps for new or returning players versus existing players.
They are, in an item based and focused game, because of their inferior gear and weaponry, at a gross disadvantage when hunting the hit of the moment MoB and, most always they just loose and never get looting rights enough to secure that highly wanted item. So the rich get richer and the poor stay poor but seeing the gap between them and the wealthy widening always more. Eventually, these new or returning players realize the daunting task and give up and leave the game thus hurting its revenues.......
I am much surprised how the Developers, over so many years, have never changed how assigning drops on the basis of looting rights is, since it creates such a disparity among players with the "Haves" getting even more and the "Haves not" be most always left empty handed.......
It would have been waaaaaaaaaaaay much better if they took the time to fix the RNG for good and let the RNG decide, really randomly, who gets the drops.......
At least, this would have allowed new players or returning ones "some" chances to catch up...
This.
D
dum3886
Guest
Never understood what the devs were doing. They add and "fix" things that people dun want added or that doesn't need fixing in the first place.
LOL @ the state of UO.
LOL @ the state of UO.
yup, my Siege vendors are getting neglected because I'm too busy doing other things
Likewise my Europa vendors.Also after many years of spending hours crafting to stock vendors, it suddenly got to be a chore and I didn't want to do it.
That is another problem with Ultima Online, the self-sufficiency of most players.
Yet, when I bring up the issue of making incompatibilities between high end crafting anf high end fighting in UO, I get yelled at.
Unless an account is made impossible to have crafters AND fighters all trained up to 120, there is simply not a chance that players will need to depend on other players.....
There should be a thread about this somewhere on Stratics......
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you strongly on this. When my husband and I first started we shared an account. We did not want to play the same way.
Also, currently I play the character I'm in the mood for. Some days I want to hunt, some days I want to craft. I would not enjoy being restricted.
Also, currently I play the character I'm in the mood for. Some days I want to hunt, some days I want to craft. I would not enjoy being restricted.
O
Old Macdonald
Guest
Indeed.
Kaiser, should you find a desire to balance the market, perhaps you could find every newbie in the game and give them a mil check - thus balancing the uber rich vs peasant status quo.
Similar to any other form of financial power investors -(assuming you truely are a pinnacle of uo signifigance) if the rich wont change themselves the economy will stay the same as it is or worsen. It's fine to capitolize, but remember, without a "backbone" middle class...who is going to iron your underwear? Cannot have a wealthy class without the middle class or the poor!
Considering the natural human behavior that drives greed and the lack of community will certainly continue the path to our game's demise.
My suggestion: toss some that gold out.
Have fun with it - TRIVIA at the bank, travel around shards and host a Traveling Trivia Event.
Become popular become generous CREATE your OWN GOLD SINK! Be credited for saving Ultima Online like the Hero you truely are!
Sidenote:
Before you try and cut my tounge out with one of your
500 smuggler's edges you have tucked away....
consider my personal donations to newbs and events that are in excess of 150m. Not too shabby considering I'm only a 4th year vet and a solo player!
In addition, when you have the "cashews" to delete nearly a billion in assets on a single account.....
then we can chat!
Pixel Crack FTW? WTF?!
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Your points are different compare to my points. UO is currently heading to your point of view this is why things are getting like it is for the market. Your point of view is no matter how hard some one works, no matter how much time someone puts in, no matter how smarter and more efficient they are, they will end up in the same place as someone who puts in a 1hour a year in UO.
What is happening is that exact thing that you directing to. You would think somebody who spends 2 weeks making potions and growing plants would get compesation by being able to sell the end product to the other players for alot more than they get now. Assuming this player that spend 2 weeks on this had the maximum of 20k in all his banks and a small 7x7. It would be nice that he can sell this product to someone with 100mil-2billion for more than the current price now. This means no matter how much time he puts in or how much he works he will never be able to even get to UO middle class this way and the rich will never transfer enough significant gold to poorer people like him. No middle class=no middle ground between the very rich and the very poor.
This goes for mostly everything that takes time in UO
No the only hope for this poor fellow is if he gets really lucky multiple times on a rare drop of something.
So far the imbuing resources are still good to go for now but don't know how long that will last as the players continue to be self sufficient and build enough suits to last them years.
I don't know if this is temporaly or if it will get worst or better. Though for some reason it seems liike UO will end up PVP only. Instead of fellucca disapearing it is Trammel that will disapear first. That is a very interesting turn of events. Can UO be supported on a PVP only basis?
I'll put up examples: high perfectly ended suits can be made with no trouble, resources for these suits can be gathered quickly and easily, No monster loot can compare, Artifacts available in better form in factions so easier to just get them from there than bother with doom, Tailor,carpenters,masons,blacksmith,tinkeres took a back seat and made into support skills for imbuing, Which once again pretty much makes monster loot obsolete. Basicaly It's fun and all to fight things but you going after only for the rare drop, the rest of the loot does not matter which makes anything less than a new SA boss obsolete. "Remeber when we killed blood elementals,dread spiders,balrons,fan dancers just for there loot. How excited you were when you got something like a slayer with hit chance on it didn't matter if it had any other mods."
Well all this effect merchants,crafters, and pvm. I guess RP can still RP in fel and house designers can design houses in fel.
Perhaps I'm over exagerating. But is definetely something to think about.
Not everyone can be producers.
Someone has to take the role as "consumer" too.
What I see in UO now and for past...many years! is that everyone and their mother has a crafter. People also are eager to put up vendors left and right, and make gold.
Now people got the gold, but nothing to spend it on.
What the game needs is more PvPers, they are afterall high consumers of pots/bolas/reagents/armor& pvp gear/powder/pet summoning balls/etcetc enough to get the market going.
In PvP you consume alot of resources and dont get things like epix back, thus a "money drain".
Think about the purpose of the game, more people should consider PvP, then the market would work.
Someone has to take the role as "consumer" too.
What I see in UO now and for past...many years! is that everyone and their mother has a crafter. People also are eager to put up vendors left and right, and make gold.
Now people got the gold, but nothing to spend it on.
What the game needs is more PvPers, they are afterall high consumers of pots/bolas/reagents/armor& pvp gear/powder/pet summoning balls/etcetc enough to get the market going.
In PvP you consume alot of resources and dont get things like epix back, thus a "money drain".
Think about the purpose of the game, more people should consider PvP, then the market would work.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
In order to balance the market there needs to be a way for poorer players to make gold. You give a poor player 200mil that doesn't know or have any way or doesn't care to make gold he will be asking you next week if he can have another 200mil cause he spent it already.Indeed.
Kaiser, should you find a desire to balance the market, perhaps you could find every newbie in the game and give them a mil check - thus balancing the uber rich vs peasant status quo.
Similar to any other form of financial power investors -(assuming you truely are a pinnacle of uo signifigance) if the rich wont change themselves the economy will stay the same as it is or worsen. It's fine to capitolize, but remember, without a "backbone" middle class...who is going to iron your underwear? Cannot have a wealthy class without the middle class or the poor!
Considering the natural human behavior that drives greed and the lack of community will certainly continue the path to our game's demise.
My suggestion: toss some that gold out.
Have fun with it - TRIVIA at the bank, travel around shards and host a Traveling Trivia Event.
Become popular become generous CREATE your OWN GOLD SINK! Be credited for saving Ultima Online like the Hero you truely are!
Sidenote:
Before you try and cut my tounge out with one of your
500 smuggler's edges you have tucked away....
consider my personal donations to newbs and events that are in excess of 150m. Not too shabby considering I'm only a 4th year vet and a solo player!
In addition, when you have the "cashews" to delete nearly a billion in assets on a single account.....
then we can chat!
Pixel Crack FTW? WTF?!
Remmeber im fighting for the poorer players. Us players with gold we are set we can buy anything we want anytime and use up almost nothing of our funds. But eventualy this will lead to a complete collapse without sellers or buyers.
I can understand that, but at some point, if something hurts the game, something needs be done about it and a position of compromise reached.
Want to experience both playing styles off one single account ? Play 2 separate shards, one with fighters and another with crafters.......
It might not be the perfect solution but if it helps the game getting players less self-sufficient and more interacting with each other perhaps it would be an acceptable compromise solution......
Besides, I was not suggesting not having at all a mix of crafters and fighters on the same one shard for a same account. I was suggesting this merely for high level skill.
Say, 90 or 100 and above.
Meaning, that an account on the same one shard could not have characters excelling in BOTH playing styles but could well have average ones in both.
This was meant to allow at least "some" specialty and ways for a given playing style to ensure, at least at high levels of the skills, some ways to profit from one's own maxed out experteese.
Thing is, that this is merely a game, a tool for entertainment. And, on top of it, just one of many many such games out there.
This is not real life, there is nothing here to demonstrate or proove to anyone, IMHO.
This is merely a service provided to give to the subscribing user some entertainment over the time spent with it.
Like going to the movies, or to a park, or playing cards with friends, whatever.
It is a product of the entertainment industry to spend some time with to relax, period.
Working hard and all that is for real life, IMHO, when I go to the movies I just want to sit and relax for a couple of hours. I do not work hard to watch a movie, I just go there to relax for that time.
A game, a product for entertainment should require a reasonable effort but not at the expense of one's own life, work or studies. The real life is what matters the most, not the game.
At least, so I think.......
U
UOKaiser
Guest
We all live in real life so thats how that is. I don't sell things in real life, I don't make weapons in real life. Im just a slave to my bosses in real life. But UO Im my own boss with my own consumers and suppliers. Uo is uniques as it established such a unique freform economy between players that it took root and atracted so many people. We mirror real life but with gold. It could of taken different turn in the economy from anywhere in the world. But it took on it's own life. It was meant to be as per the original intent of the game creators and so it did.
The accomplishment of what you do in game is for your self. If you kill 1000's of players who would really care in the game? If you killed a million stygian abyss dragons will anybody notice? If you become the richest in game does this really count? Only to your self but that is truly whats important. The UO economy has so many involved from PVM to crafters to resource collectors to pvp's to guilds to players that never owned a vender, everyone is involved in some way.
In anything you do you work hard to be better and to feel accomplish. In games is no different you work hard to learn how to kill someone you work hard to aquire something you work hard to finsh something. Test center is the perfect example of no work and all rewards. Pure fun. But does anybody play it eclusively. Doubtful cause it doesn't count for your self you didn't work hard at it and thus you didn't enjoy it.
You may be right popps, it may be what UO needs, but if EA restricts my freedom in the way you are suggesting I would not play that game. I would lose too much of what I currently enjoy. Freedom to do what I like, be whatever I'm in the mood for is what draws me to UO. It's what makes UO special, what makes it different to all the other games out there. It's why I play UO and none of the others.
Can I ask you if there could possibly be some form of a compromise solution that would be acceptable for you ?
That is, a way to maintain "some" freedom of game play but at the same time make it more difficult for players to switch from fighter to crafter in no time thus being self sufficient ?
B
Babble
Guest
Maybe it is because many vendors specialize on highend stuff as selling the stuff more people would buy is not as profitable?
Few people sell complete set of suits, most try to sell parts and who likes to shop for some things part by part? Same I guess with other ressources and also most vendors do not regularly restock so you lose customers and have then an ever lower profit margin.
trying to buy a GM armor suit is a real challenge, so thanks to RAA on europa for their longstanding effort to sell all kind of stuff.
Few people sell complete set of suits, most try to sell parts and who likes to shop for some things part by part? Same I guess with other ressources and also most vendors do not regularly restock so you lose customers and have then an ever lower profit margin.
trying to buy a GM armor suit is a real challenge, so thanks to RAA on europa for their longstanding effort to sell all kind of stuff.
Isn't it funny how we alternate with posts saying UO is in trouble because prices are too high, and UO is in trouble because prices are too low?
None of us has any real idea if UO is dying or doing well or somewhere in between. All we can do is speculate.
Please don't like me up to those MMO Chart sites, because the easiest thing in the world for most people is to throw up a site saying "here are MMO subscriptions." Maybe they're right, maybe they're not.
So without adding my own speculations about the health of UO, here's some perfectly legitimate reasons why prices on things could be down.
Prices on items could be down because Imbuing makes it possible to have customized items, and because there's so many different artifacts or artifact-like items in-play that the need for certain items has been reduced.
Prices on resources could be down because some resources are easier to get (necromancer reagents come to mind) and because certain things (good weapons for example) are easier to get now through Imbuing than through endlessly burning high-end hammers, sewing kits, or saws.
Prices on resources could be down because scripting could be down. People often credit scripting with lowering resource prices, but consider that gold farming can also be scripted, thus leading to more gold in the economy, thus leading to inflation. But now, thanks to several gold-heavy monsters and the changes with the weight of gold and Bags of Sending being restored (people finally getting used to those changes), it's easier for legitimate players to have tons of legitimate gold not bought from scripters.
Or, I suppose, UO could be dying, and prices being too low is a sign of it just as prices being too high was once seen as a sign of it.
*shrugs*
-Galen's player
None of us has any real idea if UO is dying or doing well or somewhere in between. All we can do is speculate.
Please don't like me up to those MMO Chart sites, because the easiest thing in the world for most people is to throw up a site saying "here are MMO subscriptions." Maybe they're right, maybe they're not.
So without adding my own speculations about the health of UO, here's some perfectly legitimate reasons why prices on things could be down.
Prices on items could be down because Imbuing makes it possible to have customized items, and because there's so many different artifacts or artifact-like items in-play that the need for certain items has been reduced.
Prices on resources could be down because some resources are easier to get (necromancer reagents come to mind) and because certain things (good weapons for example) are easier to get now through Imbuing than through endlessly burning high-end hammers, sewing kits, or saws.
Prices on resources could be down because scripting could be down. People often credit scripting with lowering resource prices, but consider that gold farming can also be scripted, thus leading to more gold in the economy, thus leading to inflation. But now, thanks to several gold-heavy monsters and the changes with the weight of gold and Bags of Sending being restored (people finally getting used to those changes), it's easier for legitimate players to have tons of legitimate gold not bought from scripters.
Or, I suppose, UO could be dying, and prices being too low is a sign of it just as prices being too high was once seen as a sign of it.
*shrugs*
-Galen's player
You know what really worries me ?
Seeing the asian shards emtpied out of players......
Asian subscriptions were the ones helping UO the most in the past, if asians starts to close too many accounts down, then I am not sure what to expect from the future.
I now see more players in Luna/New Haven on some north american shards than asian shards.
Not sure whether it is players just taking time off but keeping accounts active or whether it means subscriptions closed down.
According to the list of shards, clicking the %Full buttom sorts the shards after population.
The asian shards are always on top, no matter time of day or week.
what worries me is that Europa 6,7,8,9pm has fewer people than american shards 6,7,8am local time.
Several points to this thread:
1 - Tina Small - What do you mean with people being disgusted with the global chat system? I think its an awesome addition (though annoying it starts you in the help chat, not general)
2 - About consumers - You're right, the game lacks consumers apart from very rich merchants for the most part or people buying the newest and greatest.
UO Needs to stop throwing new powerful items out there for short periods of time, while at the same time requiring very good setups and experience to even participate. The same goes for normal game play, its far too focused on the high end market, making more and more powerful mobs and items, which eventually makes the rich even richer, and the not so rich more and more frustrated, making the gab larger and larger, with more high end players quitting, than there are low end players joining the high end. This of course leads to market collapse, as the consumer market goes all out of wack.
1 - Tina Small - What do you mean with people being disgusted with the global chat system? I think its an awesome addition (though annoying it starts you in the help chat, not general)
2 - About consumers - You're right, the game lacks consumers apart from very rich merchants for the most part or people buying the newest and greatest.
UO Needs to stop throwing new powerful items out there for short periods of time, while at the same time requiring very good setups and experience to even participate. The same goes for normal game play, its far too focused on the high end market, making more and more powerful mobs and items, which eventually makes the rich even richer, and the not so rich more and more frustrated, making the gab larger and larger, with more high end players quitting, than there are low end players joining the high end. This of course leads to market collapse, as the consumer market goes all out of wack.
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Sooner or later the population will drop low enough that the only alternative is to combine shards. This certainly will help out with the supply and demand. Of course, there will be other problems.
P
Phineas le Monge
Guest
I feel that overpricing is hurting the market. I refuse to pay 200k for POF when a year ago I could buy it for less than 50k. The most I would be willing to pay is 75k. And imbue ingredients? Somebody thinks I'm paying 50k for a boura pelt? Prices like that send me resource gathering rather than shopping!
Sounds to me like the market was over-inflated and is now correcting itself.
How about this as a gold sink? The big powerful super rich want a castle? Buy one from EA, (at auction) and put them on all that "reserved" land in Malas. Stop giving houses away, sink dat gold! (And no, I don't have the gold to bid LOL)
Sounds to me like the market was over-inflated and is now correcting itself.
How about this as a gold sink? The big powerful super rich want a castle? Buy one from EA, (at auction) and put them on all that "reserved" land in Malas. Stop giving houses away, sink dat gold! (And no, I don't have the gold to bid LOL)
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
just saturation.
The novelty has worn off. And the items of SA are in less demand.
Flipside. I just dug out 100's of planeswords and the sell like hotcakes for 500k to 750k.
go figure.
Double flipside. Watch all the new arties. They are finding ways on the vendors and 10's of millions.
Merchants move to whats hot.
An Tina said it. Imbuer's have imbued what they need.
Now imbued prices will fall. If that falls so does PoF and associated.
Nothing wierd going on.
The novelty has worn off. And the items of SA are in less demand.
Flipside. I just dug out 100's of planeswords and the sell like hotcakes for 500k to 750k.
go figure.
Double flipside. Watch all the new arties. They are finding ways on the vendors and 10's of millions.
Merchants move to whats hot.
An Tina said it. Imbuer's have imbued what they need.
Now imbued prices will fall. If that falls so does PoF and associated.
Nothing wierd going on.
You're being sarcastic, right? Or else you play on a very underpopulated shard during hours when no one else is around or have an ignore list as long as your arm.
It wouldn't be so bad if there was an easy way to remove someone from your ignore list, but there isn't. Also, if you switch characters or accounts, the ignore list is the same for ALL of them. That means that if you switch to a PvP or faction character and have braced yourself in preparation for listening for the presence of certain individuals you don't care to listen to when you're on other characters, it's difficult or impossible to do.
O
omgmir
Guest
rolleyes:
So, the prices are down and that is.. bad? I doubt it. Ultima Online is quite an expensive hobby even now. And that poster above managed to buy everything he wanted, yet complains? Maybe I'm missing something.
Ultima did not seem any bit emptier than the emptiest I've ever seen it be, either. People transfer, then return.. Quit, then return.. It's probably one of those times and it's all the better! I'm looking for good deals on a supplier of imbued, identical PVP suits and weapons. ;P
Before you get your prices up please let me shop!!
Ultima did not seem any bit emptier than the emptiest I've ever seen it be, either. People transfer, then return.. Quit, then return.. It's probably one of those times and it's all the better! I'm looking for good deals on a supplier of imbued, identical PVP suits and weapons. ;P
Before you get your prices up please let me shop!!
T
The Doctor
Guest
With the introduction of AoS and making it an item-based game rather than a community, the developers created an inevitable Monty Haul game. (An old D&D reference, but holds true here).
Monty Haul. Any campaign where the gamemaster doles out huge amounts of experience/treasure/power/other rewards. Usually becomes stupefyingly pointless after the player characters become the most wealthy/powerful beings in the universe.
— Jason Sartin, RPG Cliches
UO has survived much longer than one would have imagined, but increasing numbers have decided that they have reached the "stupefyingly pointless" mark. Like real life, the only way to happiness is to remove oneself from the rat race (and UO is still the only game I know that you can really do this) by choosing your own limitations and rejecting the treadmill. Like seeing how far up the monster ladder you can get as a savage (spear, looted bone legs/arms and some bandages) or a group of such. [/HIPPIE]
Monty Haul. Any campaign where the gamemaster doles out huge amounts of experience/treasure/power/other rewards. Usually becomes stupefyingly pointless after the player characters become the most wealthy/powerful beings in the universe.
— Jason Sartin, RPG Cliches
UO has survived much longer than one would have imagined, but increasing numbers have decided that they have reached the "stupefyingly pointless" mark. Like real life, the only way to happiness is to remove oneself from the rat race (and UO is still the only game I know that you can really do this) by choosing your own limitations and rejecting the treadmill. Like seeing how far up the monster ladder you can get as a savage (spear, looted bone legs/arms and some bandages) or a group of such. [/HIPPIE]
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
But not only are prices down, there are fewer and fewer vendors. Just as there are fewer and fewer houses and players.
There's a problem. And too many people are trying to justify it, so as to justify the game the way it is.
There's a problem. And too many people are trying to justify it, so as to justify the game the way it is.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
On rare occassions, I do agree with Galen here...and this is one of them.
Imbuing was bound to have an impact eventually, and now that most players that want to use it have gotten their character's skill level high enough, they are having to rely on the vendor market less and less.
If you will recall, this was cited as one of the "benefits" of imbuing after it was announced. It was supposed to reduce the need for really high end items, and return the game to a less item focused state. I don't think it succeeded completely...but I think there has been some effect.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Heh, good point. Unfortunately, there's also the hippies dropping out of the society.With the introduction of AoS and making it an item-based game rather than a community, the developers created an inevitable Monty Haul game. (An old D&D reference, but holds true here).
Monty Haul. Any campaign where the gamemaster doles out huge amounts of experience/treasure/power/other rewards. Usually becomes stupefyingly pointless after the player characters become the most wealthy/powerful beings in the universe.
— Jason Sartin, RPG Cliches
UO has survived much longer than one would have imagined, but increasing numbers have decided that they have reached the "stupefyingly pointless" mark. Like real life, the only way to happiness is to remove oneself from the rat race (and UO is still the only game I know that you can really do this) by choosing your own limitations and rejecting the treadmill. Like seeing how far up the monster ladder you can get as a savage (spear, looted bone legs/arms and some bandages) or a group of such. [/HIPPIE]
UO needs to change it's focus. Go back to the story and plots of the lore, add mystery to the game, get rid of the power structure of items that drives need and game play, and start building "sideways" for new and interesting items, abilities, and story.
You haven't been the only one who has been saying this. And people still don't respond to my ideas to bring social tools. Not even Devs who are already leaning towards them.
My e-peen post count just not high enough or something?
U
UOKaiser
Guest
I explain why prices down and vender disappearence is bad again as it might of being lost in all the post.So, the prices are down and that is.. bad? I doubt it. Ultima Online is quite an expensive hobby even now. And that poster above managed to buy everything he wanted, yet complains? Maybe I'm missing something.
Ultima did not seem any bit emptier than the emptiest I've ever seen it be, either. People transfer, then return.. Quit, then return.. It's probably one of those times and it's all the better! I'm looking for good deals on a supplier of imbued, identical PVP suits and weapons. ;P
Before you get your prices up please let me shop!!
People who have gold,are in UO terms rich or well off love that prices are down.
This is because they can buy everything they want and barely spend there gold.
They don't need to become rich again all they need is to stay rich.
People who are broke or in lower bracket in UO terms need to sell there products at higher prices to the rich for them to transfer and trickle down the gold to the lower class. Usually aside from imbuing ingredients and rares it's some sort of product that can be continously done.
Even though people still need potions,still want stains,still need other items that are continously harvested or made with hard work the current product prices do not reflect there need and work.
This thus creates very little way for a poorer player (supplier) to get to middle class or higher by selling there wares. Once again aside from imbuing ingredients for now and rares.
This creates a gap where the poorer players will eventualy stop trying to sell there goods, therefore they will not be able to achieve there potential. "Which might explain the more increase drop of vendors everywhere."
The richer players will end up just buying from each other but eventualy that will dry up as well. There isn't much incentive in selling items at lower prices than they themselves have. SO once again only rares will be sold between them. The rest will be self sufficient.
It would lead to a stagnent economy where rich remains rich and poor will remain poor. The middle class diasapears just like real life.
But once again I might be over analizing this. I need to see if things improve. This might only be a temporaly thing. The dev might introduce something that will boost the economy up aside from rares. Or make something that is essentualy needed harder to do your self.
Though wouldn't it be funny if Trammel is closed down before Fel. I sure would laugh my head off. Even though I love Trammel.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I've read your ideas. And other's ideas too. I'm sure the Devs do too, the ones who have a mind towards this, anyways.
I agree with most, but not all. Don't ask me which, I've forgotten the specifics.
But don't think you aren't heard, that's my main point.
Thank you for the kind words. I know you and maybe 2 others who have any interest in actual community have even provided any feedback on such ideas.
Just seems even here, most are still obsessed with the new client, or items, or populating monsters in old dungeons, or a classic shard... Few have the inclination to think that none of these things really matter if there is no one else to enjoy them with.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Oh God, yes. It's one of the things about UO that has driven me batty over the years.
UO used to be overrun with players like us. The early events had boat loads of people trying to figure out the mysteries. Stratics here had whole pages devoted to what was happening and what it meant and mysteries listed to try to solve, the biggest of which was "Is Mondain alive?". Social spheres of all kinds were everywhere.
The landscape has changed. It's all item driven now.
Your 1st paragraph is one hell of an assumption. Generalizing UO's players is not cool. You may say you help every tom, ****, and harry that comes along, but your genorousity comes across as superficial.
And just how is it you know what % of players has hundreds of millions?? What? Because your "clique" does?? I know many a player whose poor, broke, rich, and whatnot.....that's not what makes the player.
I've had alot, ...guess what?...it makes UO boring. I seriously hope this market crashes into the landing deck. Bring UO back to what it was before the greed mongers, who call themselves vendors or "merchants", came along.
No need for any snippy replies, I post and never look back.
later
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I really like some of your ideas.
T
The Doctor
Guest
I agree entirely. And UO is the perfect structure already for doing just this. I've noted before, giving more tools to the community to create content (reviewed before implementation by an Events team) would make UO almost "open source". With all the strengths of that model, and minimising costs for EA and the development team. Just think of the diversity and creativity!
[/MORE HIPPIE]
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I'd love to see something along those lines. But I'm really afraid of abuses and such.
It's an idea that's well worth exploring though.
I read lots of interesting thoughts here , and im concerned about UO, so ill mak a little input as well.
We were given a sandbox to use as we wanted. Some went well and some went wrong. I bet the devs could not forsee how we should use the tools and options we got. Same for the players. The greed took ower more and more. The rich ppl seems blind to how they drowe up prices by buying and reselling to higher price and squeezing every little gp out of a trade.
It became "glorious" to be a big moneymaker.
Old players like me, have no difficulty to fight for our new items or buy them . Unfortunately there are many of us, sitting in our old guilds , having more than we will ever need, and not so many new or middle lvl players. It must be very discouraging to be one of them. Just open a paperdoll and see all fancy stuff we are wearing and think its essential to have all that.. For a newcomer it must seem impossible to get any of thoose items. Noone tells them different.
And this is the people that will be the best customers for many years if they dont get discouraged early. They are the ones that need to buy crafted items and petals and send bags etc.. Dont let us scare them off by sitting in our mancines and counting our fortunes. Speak to them , help them , let some join your guild ! Maybe it saves uo for us?
We were given a sandbox to use as we wanted. Some went well and some went wrong. I bet the devs could not forsee how we should use the tools and options we got. Same for the players. The greed took ower more and more. The rich ppl seems blind to how they drowe up prices by buying and reselling to higher price and squeezing every little gp out of a trade.
It became "glorious" to be a big moneymaker.
Old players like me, have no difficulty to fight for our new items or buy them . Unfortunately there are many of us, sitting in our old guilds , having more than we will ever need, and not so many new or middle lvl players. It must be very discouraging to be one of them. Just open a paperdoll and see all fancy stuff we are wearing and think its essential to have all that.. For a newcomer it must seem impossible to get any of thoose items. Noone tells them different.
And this is the people that will be the best customers for many years if they dont get discouraged early. They are the ones that need to buy crafted items and petals and send bags etc.. Dont let us scare them off by sitting in our mancines and counting our fortunes. Speak to them , help them , let some join your guild ! Maybe it saves uo for us?
U
UOKaiser
Guest
You might not look back and close your eyes but that won't stop me from replying. A assumption based on fact. Why would a player that has no interest in learning how to make gold,have no interest in gold and have no idea how to make gold all sudden turn around and take the 200mil you give him and turn it to 2 billion? Why would he? He has no interest in more gold. How can he? He has no knowledge how. This is the logical conclusion. You can say the earth is the center of the universe but that doesn't make it true.Your 1st paragraph is one hell of an assumption. Generalizing UO's players is not cool. You may say you help every tom, ****, and harry that comes along, but your genorousity comes across as superficial.
And just how is it you know what % of players has hundreds of millions?? What? Because your "clique" does?? I know many a player whose poor, broke, rich, and whatnot.....that's not what makes the player.
I've had alot, ...guess what?...it makes UO boring. I seriously hope this market crashes into the landing deck. Bring UO back to what it was before the greed mongers, who call themselves vendors or "merchants", came along.
No need for any snippy replies, I post and never look back.
later
Hmm I was a merchant when UO started so how far back shall we go, bring it back to what before the concept was put on paper? We were selling silver vanq wepons back then,gm armor,houses,server up rares,daily rares,bandaids,smith repair,plants,potions,our services,protection against pks,resources,Brit bank spamming,shall I go on? When 10k gold might as well be a million gold.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
I agree with you though the only thing is I don't want newbies to buy our products. I want newbies to be able to sell there products to us for the value of there hard work not for less. This is why many times I purposely take a loss by giving newer players more than the thing I bought from them cost. This encourage them to go out there and move up in the merchant world.
In real life, sometimes, when a society becomes deadlocked like that, divided mostly into rich and poor, the Government steps in with tools like taxes which usually are heavier on larger wealth and lighter on poor people and then issue aiding Programs.
Also, to break up harming monopolies, they set up anti-trust agencies with special powers to avoid control of the market and prices by only a few.
Bottom line is, when things stall usually some action is needed.
Question is, do we need some sort of intervention also in Ultima Online to address the increasing gap between players who have lots in the game and players who do not ?
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Don't get me on taxes. In real life the poor pays more than the rich in taxes overall. There is alot more poor than there is rich out there. Of course this is the US and monopolies are disguised in duopolies and behind door collaboration.
Government is paid for by lobbiest man our whole system is corrupt.
In UO EA step in is not in taxes as making players poorer is not going to help if you can't make players richer. EA can find a way to introduce products that are in demand but time consuming and difficult to produce so that it may be able to be sold by higher amounts steadily but not mass produced and a newbie can do it better than a establish player for some reason. Yea I know that last part is pretty tough to produce but it's a neccesarity so that us richer players won't just do it for ourselves.
They did try that with taints. The only problem is us richer players can grow 100's of plants on extra characters and we have the funds to buy all the potions we need. So the market became saturated and people can pretty much make there own. It didn't have the equation of a newbie able to do it easier then well establish player. Honesty I have no idea what can be introduced in that regard it would take massive brainstorming and testing.
The market will bear what the market will bear. With more and more people becoming actively involved in imbuing, specifically, and the different crafts, in general, they are finding that the best way to get their ingredients is to farm their own. True, the perversely rich will always just buy what they want, but that doesn't change the fact that, just because you, as a vendor, values 1000 magical residue at 500k means that the average player values it anywhere near that amount.
I will admit that I was more than happy to find 30 essence of diligence on a vendor for 10k per, vs the standard 40k per on everyone else - and yep, I snatched them up, and added them to the rest of my stash.
And your stance on scripting being ok isn't going to earn you any fans here. I've gone so far as moving the forge I had on my front porch to a non-accessible area, just because a scripter felt the need to put my house into their cheat. Just as I don't want the smell of sewer in my real house, I don't want the taint of a cheater in my game house.
I will admit that I was more than happy to find 30 essence of diligence on a vendor for 10k per, vs the standard 40k per on everyone else - and yep, I snatched them up, and added them to the rest of my stash.
And your stance on scripting being ok isn't going to earn you any fans here. I've gone so far as moving the forge I had on my front porch to a non-accessible area, just because a scripter felt the need to put my house into their cheat. Just as I don't want the smell of sewer in my real house, I don't want the taint of a cheater in my game house.
I'm playing around with an idea like this w/mailboxes. I'm putting together a shop now that will sell SA imbuing materials. On one vendor I will have books asking for mats I am low on w/a mailbox next to the vendor. I'll ask for a quantity and rune to the player's house/mailbox in a bag (place it in my mailbox). I'll check it daily and deliver checks to that player's mailbox in payment for their goods. I'll offer full price.. maybe minus a week or two of vendor fees.
It will take some tweaking but it's a good way to offer all of the different resources given to us in SA without farming 24/7. I'll have a little advantage as I can farm the most desired mats myself.