So now that we know neither KR nor 2d are going anywhere......

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

....And thank you again Drac and K. for clarifying this, then it's time to ask....

Can you tell us if it's still intended to release SA as KR-only (or at all)?

Or is that still being figured out?

-Galen's player

 

[imported_Electrolyte]

I am getting the feeling that the answer to that is still being figured out... I for one would much rather see SA be KR only, as, has been stated before, there's so much more that can be done if it's made KR only...

of course i could be one of "that minority" that plays KR

-=\E

 

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

<blockquote><hr>

I am getting the feeling that the answer to that is still being figured out... I for one would much rather see SA be KR only, as, has been stated before, there's so much more that can be done if it's made KR only...

of course i could be one of "that minority" that plays KR

-=\E

[/ QUOTE ]


You are.

And yeah, that's actually my impression too. I don't expect a response, and I'm ok with that, but hey, they've been pretty talkative lately, may as well see if we can catch them in a talkative mood.

Or maybe one of them will log on drunk and spill the beans!

-Galen's player

 

[Guest]

Guys KR is still the same dang engine with upgraded graphics.
But those graphics are what turn people away they are ugly, and its buggy as heck.

I wish they would take my advice and combine the two worlds use good ole UO graphics instead of that sinfully ugly KR client.

On top of that having two clients for one game is just plain out dumb.

 

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

<blockquote><hr>

Guys KR is still the same dang engine with upgraded graphics.
But those graphics are what turn people away they are ugly, and its buggy as heck.

I wish they would take my advice and combine the two worlds use good ole UO graphics instead of that sinfully ugly KR client.

On top of that having two clients for one game is just plain out dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]


Please do not turn this thread into a KR vs. 2d fight. (Oh and btw, KR is an entirely different graphics engine.)

This thread is to encourage the UO team to tell us a little more about longer-range plans.

-Galen's player

 

[Emil Ispep]

Ok for real.. was ANY thought what-so-ever put into making UO look like this?

 

[Guest]

They already told you the long range plans, go look at uo.com/.

And yah they are the same engine KR has different features and a different GUI.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

I personally think UO looks better in the top down 2d view than those crappy cartoonish 3d graphics.

Just because a game is 3d doesn't mean it's better or special in any way what-so-ever.

And lets get something straight.

KR would kick buttcheeks if it wasn't so damn buggy, if it had a classic interface (I really CANNOT stand the UI, the backpacks or the targeting system at all.)

If Ultima Online had the graphics of KR but the playability of 2d... you would see everyone pretty much be content with it.

We cannot stand getting 1/2 of what we want 100% of the time... that's why you see the old system (which the MAJORITY of Ultima Online players enjoy) prevailing after now TWO seperate attempts to move away from it.

Give us what we want and not these crappy imitations of such. At that point, we'll move forward and lay the old 2d client to rest.

my 2 cents.

 

[Guest]

...

Guys KR is still the same dang engine with upgraded graphics.

Wrong. Legacy = Wombat, KR = Gambryo. Two different game engines entirely.

On top of that having two clients for one game is just plain out dumb.


Agreed, but with the opposite implication. UO SHOULD only use 1 client, but they will HAVE to move the game FORWARD if they want any chance as retaining and increasing subscription base. However the time to remove the elder of the clients is not yet here as more work needs to be done on the newer client to make it up to par functionally for everyone.

use good ole UO graphics

Main Menu -&gt; User Settings -&gt; Graphics -&gt; Use Legacy Art

 

[Karthcove]

<blockquote><hr>

Ok for real.. was ANY thought what-so-ever put into making UO look like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lord, I hope not. Hurts my eyes just looking at it. Oh and watch out for the big rune beetle walking up behind you - heck, from the sides for that matter.

 

[pacific lily]

<blockquote><hr>



If Ultima Online had the graphics of KR but the playability of 2d... you would see everyone pretty much be content with it.

[/ QUOTE ]


What does "playability of 2D" mean? That someone can use UO assist with it? LOL

lily

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



If Ultima Online had the graphics of KR but the playability of 2d... you would see everyone pretty much be content with it.

[/ QUOTE ]


What does "playability of 2D" mean? That someone can use UO assist with it? LOL

lily

[/ QUOTE ]

No what it means is KR in a form we don't need to relearn how to play the game to use and it goes beyond that. The new interface is crap for most things because it is to slow to navigate. When I lift an object in my pack and cannot place it back with any precision in the free mode because the item shrinks and grows when moving it I get annoyed. KR just isn't UO for many of the vet players and never will be period.

 

[Guest]

If SA is only KR i'm quiting UO. If I didn't my eyes would bleed out of my head.
Like the last poster said something about not wanting to relearn something else and thats exactly true I came to UO becuase of how it looks and the feel of it.

For instance it's like saying ya i'll play you in a game of baseball then in the middle of the game instead of using a baseball they start using a football and instead of a bat they are using light sabers. Just throws everything out of wack and I would be like ya wow cool lightsaber but this isn't baseball good bye.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Little late to the conversation with that particular crack ... bout KR being "KR is still the same dang engine with upgraded graphics."

The engine that KR is built on ... was sufficient for some other games ...

@ emil ispep "was ANY thought what-so-ever put into making UO look like this"
yes ... and turned down/decided against ... One interveiw ...
can't find the specific one .... where the actual combination of "decided" and "against" occur ... by either Darkscribe or a dev team member ... but yeah ....
concious effort was put into the decision to KEEP the unique isometric veiw of UO ... UO ...

If SA is only KR i'm quiting UO.
+1 for SA being KR only

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

....And thank you again Drac and K. for clarifying this, then it's time to ask....

Can you tell us if it's still intended to release SA as KR-only (or at all)?

Or is that still being figured out?

-Galen's player

[/ QUOTE ]

I so feel this going down the same path of UO: Turd Dawn. A poorly designed "new" client and the old clasic client. Please someone at EA have the courage to make a decision on a client; If it's KR great then I can quit and be done with it; If its the current client even better IMO, let get moving on improving the current client. I think we can all agree that having two clients does not help UO, it rips the community apart and wastes dev resources.

 

[Thaledred]

I'm a vet and i like the KR client much more.
If SA will be released for both clients just to sweet the 2d oldtimers once again i will quit UO.

The interface works just fine, most vets didn't even really try it, they are just too lazy to learn something new.

KR &gt; 2d


just my 2cents

 

[Guest]

Yes let us know now if UO isn't going to be UO anymore and it's going to look like KR for the rest of the expansions i'll go play a game like EverQuest cuase they will never let people use two different clients nor change the whole thing up and make it look completly different and worse.

When they said we are gonna make a new engine fore EverQuest they released EverQuest 2 had beta tests fixed bugs then released it. Now I know EA people are no Sony people hehehehe, Sony &gt; EA

XD XD

Let us know EA! You gonna release more junk clients and make it so only people with KR can only use SA content (if there is an SA) what the heck is up..?

In the meantime i'm going to be reading up on furbeowulf

I think UO Dev's need one of these to speed things up a bit,

 

[Guest]

...

Go ahead... noone is stopping you from doing it now.

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>




Yes let us know now if UO isn't going to be UO anymore and it's going to look like KR for the rest of the expansions i'll go play a game like EverQuest cuase they will never let people use two different clients nor change the whole thing up and make it look completly different and worse.

When they said we are gonna make a new engine fore EverQuest they released EverQuest 2 had beta tests fixed bugs then released it. Now I know EA people are no Sony people hehehehe, Sony &gt; EA XD XD

Let us know EA! You gonna release more junk clients and make it so only people with KR can use SA (if there is an SA) what the heck is up..?

In the meantime i'm going to be reading up on furbeowulf


[/ QUOTE ]

Like i said... vets are even too lazy to check out the KR client fully, you are a good example.

If you say stuff like "Yes let us know now if UO isn't going to be UO anymore and it's going to look like KR for the rest of the expansions", then i seriously ask me if you ever played more than 2 mins with the KR client.
Because if you want to have it look like 2d, then for gods sake turn on the Legacy Art.

 

[Guest]

I'll leave when I see SA is only going to be KR.

Thaledred , I don't want to use it even for a min. LIKE I SAID ^^^^^VVVVVV

I'll leave when I see SA is only going to be KR.

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


KR would kick buttcheeks if it wasn't so damn buggy, if it had a classic interface (I really CANNOT stand the UI, the backpacks or the targeting system at all.)


[/ QUOTE ]

First, you can customize the UI, you can't change everything, but quite a lot.
2nd, use UI scale if the backpacks are too big, change from grid to legacy backpacks if you can't stand the grid inventory.

I have to ask you as well, did you really try KR to it's fullest ?

It isn't buggy as hell, it's quite bugfree, only a couple minor and 2 or 3 major bugs is all what i count.

You are right with the targeting system though, but hey this can be fixed as well.

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


I'll leave when I see SA is only going to be KR.

Thaledred , I don't want to use it even for a min. LIKE I SAID ^^^^^VVVVVV

I'll leave when I see SA is only going to be KR.


[/ QUOTE ]

People like you are the reason why UO can't move forward, i will be happy as soon you hit the "cancel" button.

 

[imported_Fran Fury]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



If Ultima Online had the graphics of KR but the playability of 2d... you would see everyone pretty much be content with it.

[/ QUOTE ]


What does "playability of 2D" mean? That someone can use UO assist with it? LOL

lily

[/ QUOTE ]

To me it means I can actually play the same as I do in 2d...I can play. I can barely move in KR.


I very much dislike the UI in KR but not playing KR has nothing to do with being to lazy to learn a new game. However on that same note if I wanted to learn a new game I would go learn one with even better graphics and less cheaters.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

People like you are the reason why UO can't move forward, i will be happy as soon you hit the "cancel" button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your right i'm the whole reason UO can't move forward it's my fualt they release junk clients, never post updates, never post plans (that they can easily do without spoiling events or slipping out any g-15 classified stuff!!!!), yes it's all my fualt, it's my fualt KR looks terrible and no one likes it, if half the people quit after hearing news that SA will be only KR client and every expansion after that will be my fualt too, personally I would actually really quit I mean right now i'm addicted but if I hear SA is KR I will honest cancel both of my accounts and start playing EQ again or actually take some time off gaming all together and go work on some of my cars in the garage.

Ooo the Tahoe needs work, and I would slap some plates on the srt-12 and go get pulled over some more all becuase ide be free from UO !

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


To me it means I can actually play the same as I do in 2d...I can play. I can barely move in KR.


[/ QUOTE ]

You said you can barely move in KR. Ok KR still has some perfomance issues, no discussion needed here at all. But if you can barely move then i would like to know your system spec.

<blockquote><hr>


I very much dislike the UI in KR but not playing KR has nothing to do with being to lazy to learn a new game. However on that same note if I wanted to learn a new game I would go learn one with even better graphics and less cheaters.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disliked the UI since 1997, yet i still played it because the game was/is great regardless.

However, you used one keyword "<font color="red">cheaters</font>", if you don't want cheaters then KR would be your best bet.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

However, you used one keyword "cheaters", if you don't want cheaters then KR would be your best bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

KR does nothing to stop cheating; if that were the only client cheating would continue just as it does today.

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


Your right i'm the whole reason UO can't move forward it's my fualt they release junk clients, never post updates, never post plans (that they can easily do without spoiling events or slipping out any g-15 classified stuff!!!!), yes it's all my fualt, it's my fualt KR looks terrible and no one likes it, if half the people quit after hearing news that SA will be only KR client and every expansion after that will be my fualt too, personally I would actually really quit I mean right now i'm addicted but if I hear SA is KR I will honest cancel both of my accounts and start playing EQ again or actually take some time off gaming all together and go work on some of my cars in the garage.


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want to play EQ again trust me

it's playerbase is dropping quickly lately. And since we are talking about graphics, EQ doesn't really look good either (i have played it for 4 years).

You would be better off with your cars in the garage.

 

[Guest]

...

You would be better off with your cars in the garage.

Bad form all around.

 

[Guest]

I beta tested EQ ages ago, that game is a classic just like UO was only thing is EQ releases tons and tons and tons of expansions and is just awsome period. I don't care if I got on and there was only a thousand people on a server I would still play becuase they won't ever go from good to bad developing it.

 

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

*screams*

-Galen's player

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>


<blockquote><hr>


KR would kick buttcheeks if it wasn't so damn buggy, if it had a classic interface (I really CANNOT stand the UI, the backpacks or the targeting system at all.)


[/ QUOTE ]

First, you can customize the UI, you can't change everything, but quite a lot.
2nd, use UI scale if the backpacks are too big, change from grid to legacy backpacks if you can't stand the grid inventory.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are not legacy backpacks... they are legacies to UO 3rd Dawn not the 2d client.

I've been a player of Ultima Online since BETA and you generalizing or stereotyping me because you decided to put on the KR pom poms means nothing to me. You obviously have no clue what you're even talking about so why are you posting to every reply in this thread?

Close does not cut it. I like 2d because it is EXACTLY what I want (read that again... not close to but EXACTLY!) and I will not settle for anything less.

I couldn't stand UO 3rd Dawn (3d) and I can't stand KR. Yes I've play it... and yes I love the graphics... yes they have gone lightyears in fixing the bugs... but lets get one thing straight... I've played it extensively trying to set it up to play like UO2d does and IT DOESN'T!

I can't stand the UI and neither can a lot (and I mean A LOT) of people. So, what do we do now?

Give me the playability of 2d in KR and bam, I'm on board... until then. No way jose!

I still have my stuff in 2d set to classic text... I still can't stand the way item properties are displayed, the way text boxes, player names, half the "Oh this looked cool in another game" stuff that I see plastered all over UO.

I love Ultima Online... and when I play an updated version Ultima Online it should look cooler but, play the EXACT same as the game I have been playing for the past 10 years.

or at least give me the option so that it does...

period.

 

[BadManiac]

<blockquote><hr>

use good ole UO graphics

Main Menu -&gt; User Settings -&gt; Graphics -&gt; Use Legacy Art

[/ QUOTE ]Except legacy art changes the only GOOD bits of art in KR to 2D and all the awful terrain and world art still remains useless KR style. Legacy art should make KR look exactly like 2D, including all tiles and terrain. Legacy interface should look, work and feel like the 2D interface, not the useless KR interface with an oversized ugly attempt at a perfectly square 2D backpack.

That option becomes viable when I can turn it on and not tell that I'm using KR. At which point the utter fuility of the new client really comes to light...

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

...

You would be better off with your cars in the garage.

Bad form all around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its what happens when you have a shtick up your butt...

 

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

<blockquote><hr>

*screams*

-Galen's player

[/ QUOTE ]

*screams again*

-Galen's player

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


You would be better off with your cars in the garage.

Bad form all around.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you talk about my wrong spelling or whatever, then i don't give a .... because i'm from germany and i'm sure everyone can understand what i'm writing regardless.

If you meant something else then ignore this reply and i have to say "sorry".

 

[Guest]

...

It had nothing to do with the spelling or grammar.

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


I've been a player of Ultima Online since BETA and you generalizing or stereotyping me because you decided to put on the KR pom poms means nothing to me. You obviously have no clue what you're even talking about so why are you posting to every reply in this thread?


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh i also played the UO Beta, good old times when OSI still controlled UO :|
I'm also sure that i do have indeed a clue about what's going on.

The reason why i post to every reply in this thread is because i'm sick of you 2d oldtimers basically saying KR sucks. And i will continue in doing so wether you like it or not.

 

[AirmidCecht]

*grabs the reigns on this outta control topic*

Suggestion:

Concentrate on making KR compatible with everyone's computers as was sorta promised? The more that can actually use KR, the more that would try it.

Allow for Legacy options in all areas for those 2D lovers and those who do not like the existing UI, macros stuff.

Everyone finally on one client? check!

Everyone finally able to play in SA on the "KR" client? check! check!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

*screams again*

-Galen's player


[/ QUOTE ]
Did you really expect anything different when you created this thread? Youve been around long enough to know which way it was going to go.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The reason why i post to every reply in this thread is because i'm sick of you 2d oldtimers basically saying KR sucks. And i will continue in doing so wether you like it or not.


[/ QUOTE ]

I highly doubt you continous posting with the style in which you insult others will create any KR converts. Your venom should not be aimed at those of us whom believe that the clasic client is better then the KR client; it should be aimed at the developers who used such a poor design process to create KR that it was bound to fail. The clasic Uo client to me is the client of choice.

 

[Guest]

Can I post a link to youtube in this thread? Is that against the rules?

 

[Guest]

...

There is as much vitriol (if not more so) coming from the "EVERYTHING MUST BE IN 2D!" anti-KR posters, so let's be fair here.

As Craftsman stated though earlier, this is what can be expected in almost every KR-based thread on this forum and 9 times out of 10 will be started by the "I hate KR" crowd.

I'll go after the blatant trolls on the pro-KR side, the question is... will you do the same on the anti-KR side or do I need to "police" them as well?

 

[Thaledred]

<blockquote><hr>


I highly doubt you continous posting with the style in which you insult others will create any KR converts. Your venom should not be aimed at those of us whom believe that the clasic client is better then the KR client; it should be aimed at the developers who used such a poor design process to create KR that it was bound to fail. The clasic Uo client to me is the client of choice.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are right with "aiming the devs", however, i just think KR needs more lovely patches. But the KR client wasn't a poor design process, it's only a poor process now because there are zero client patches.

 

[imported_GalenKnighthawke]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

*screams again*

-Galen's player


[/ QUOTE ]
Did you really expect anything different when you created this thread? Youve been around long enough to know which way it was going to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I honestly did not expect this.

lol

Naive, eh?

-Galen's player

 

[BadManiac]

<blockquote><hr>

Concentrate on making KR compatible with everyone's computers as was sorta promised? The more that can actually use KR, the more that would try it.

[/ QUOTE ]They'll have to rewrite KR using a different 3D engine then, Gamebryo really doesn't scale well downwards, never did. You'll always need an ok 3D card, which very few people actually have. UO is the only mmo you can play with onboard Intel Graphics, which is what the vast majority of PC's have.
But even within that envelope they do still need to concentrate on optimizations and performance tweaks.

<blockquote><hr>

Allow for Legacy options in all areas for those 2D lovers and those who do not like the existing UI, macros stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed entirely, and since we're a bunch of stubborn pig headed change reluctant old farts the lot of us, make sure EVERYTHING has separate toggles in the options. If I want to play KR with 2D terrain, 2D items and 2D house tiles, but KR monster art, then I should be able to do so (No -I- don't want that, I want 2D all the way, just had to make an example)

A good current example of this is "interface scale" The most useles option ever, if you scale down so the containers are a usable size, everything else is microscopic. Just make ALL gumps separately resizable already! And carry the same theme throughout, separate toggle options for everything. Everyone gets what they want, everyone's happy, the devs can scrap 2D, because I'll be able to play 2D in KR

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

...

There is as much vitriol (if not more so) coming from the "EVERYTHING MUST BE IN 2D!" anti-KR posters, so let's be fair here.

As Craftsman stated though earlier, this is what can be expected in almost every KR-based thread on this forum and 9 times out of 10 will be started by the "I hate KR" crowd.

I'll go after the blatant trolls on the pro-KR side, the question is... will you do the same on the anti-KR side or do I need to "police" them as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

I gave up being a policeman. I simply try to control my own posts.

 

[Guest]

...

I think I'll respectfully pass on the opening... thanks though

I'll admit to a level of "snarkiness" myself, but most of the time it's in response to other people's snarky comments.

I'd like to think that I've done a decent job of being realistic in my viewpoints on the KR client... in favor of, but refraining (as much as possible) from outright flaming (I don't flame 2d specifically, but like I said, I tend to get snarky about the attitudes of certain 2d posters).

And I'll be the first to admit that KR still has a long way to go. Most of the game stopping issues (especially crash bugs) have been handled, but there are a LOT of "non-stability" related issues that need to be addressed which is why I was making a LOT of noise last night after the postings on the Herald said NOTHING about KR.

KR is in a development drought and I hope it ends soon because I REALLY believe that it is a great client but with a substantial amount of potential unrealized and I'd like to see UO pushing the envelope in terms of quality in the client and not be left back as a "curiosity" with a decade+ old client.

As for SA, I stated it when the expansion was announced... it NEEDS to be KR based and in my opinion, they CANNOT renege on that standpoint. They've done it once already with Ilshenar and 3d and look what happened... right afterwards (LBR release being the renege), subscription rates began to drop. Doing so again will make things even worse I believe.

I'm doing what I can to help KR become a usable client by everyone, even though I get no payment from EA/Mythic because I like UO and I like the client. I've done some UI work with it and a LOT of bug reporting (and griping at the devs for the next Patch day). Losing KR (thankfully THAT rumour has been squashed) would mean the loss of a LOT of hours' worth of effort on my part and thus would ruin UO for me (due to a lack of playable client for me).

BUT...

BUT...

I'm also going to try and spearhead making the discussion of KR and 2d more reasonable so that it's more involved than "Your client sucks!" one part of which is to go after posts on BOTH sides that reduce down to that level.

 

[Akasha1]

Sorry... people can't play nice and the thread went nowhere fast.