Smoke Bombs in PVP are a joke!

[Asmodai/Embryo]

Dunno if much has been said about this, but i play Europa, and the amount of times i've been on my dexxer, literally standing right on the tile next to someone hitting them with a bok, they just dissapear in front of me and stealth off. Now, i dont know what everyone else thinks, but i think this is horrendously overpowered... how in any real terms can it be justified that someone just dissapears in front of ur eyes whilst swinging your sword at their head?!

There needs to be something which stops people abusing smoke bombs, it's just a joke... that someone can dissapear mid battle whenever they see fit, whereas i have to run about 3000 tiles to get someone off my back!

 

[Ah Beng]

Using smoke bombs require a massive 300+ skill points (ninjitsu, hiding, stealth), and it's a wholly defensive capability (smoke bombs can't bomb you to death), so it's fine as it is. It's the only way an innocent can survive an evil pk gank squad.


<blockquote><hr>

Dunno if much has been said about this, but i play Europa, and the amount of times i've been on my dexxer, literally standing right on the tile next to someone hitting them with a bok, they just dissapear in front of me and stealth off. Now, i dont know what everyone else thinks, but i think this is horrendously overpowered... how in any real terms can it be justified that someone just dissapears in front of ur eyes whilst swinging your sword at their head?!

There needs to be something which stops people abusing smoke bombs, it's just a joke... that someone can dissapear mid battle whenever they see fit, whereas i have to run about 3000 tiles to get someone off my back!

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[imported_Jimmy Pop]

<blockquote><hr>

hitting them with a bok

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure you wanna talk about "Jokes" in UO?

 

[Asmodai/Embryo]

lol wtf, is this a bunch of trammies defending a clearly overpowered capability? Boks arnt a joke seeing as you can break nerve strike with a box so really its no different to anything else... it does small damage standard and when someone parries bok you lose mana, and not only that, if a mage is casting you cant bok them... so i refuse to accept that...

I'm not saying 'nurf' smoke bombs, and im not talking about 'the only way to escape', im talking about someone attacking you, you defending yourself only to see them dissapear whenever they want... it's clearly being abused by people who can CHOOSE when they die or not... thats not what pvp is about... hell use a smoke bomb in a gank when ur running the [censored] away but in a proper fight u shudnt be able to just dissapear at will.

And as for that 300 skill points thing, it's got enough bonuses as it is... i.e Death Strike, Animal Form, Hiding in itself u can hide from someone when about 8-9 tiles away. I dont care how people use smoke bombs in tram, but it takes the piss in felluca. When i can get dismounted i've got no choice but to pretty much run away before more people come to gank me... stealthers can turn in an animal, run 8 tiles and hide. and you still think smoke bombs are acceptable within a ONE tile range? PFFT

 

[Der Rock]

u dont know the unwritten law of fellucca????


"ALL u can´t kill in 2 sec IS overpowered"

 

[Guest]

Maybe invest in GM tracking and Detect Hidden?...la

 

[Guest]

...la

 

[Yenji Yasagari]

Why don't we just take away shurikens while we're at it. I mean, HALF of a ninja's total skillpoints go into being a ninja, so, lets take away a master escapist and assassins way of escaping. The absolute MINIMUM for pvp is 120 ninja, 80 stealth, 100 hiding. 300 skill points. That leaves 120 for a weapon skill, (80 for poison) 90 for tactics, the rest is in whatever the ninja feels. So, tell me. Not a lot of room for parry, nor magic resist, is there. Ninja's are severely underpowered as is, so cry me a river bro, smoke bombs ain't gettin nerfed.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

I don't have a problem with the smokebomb itself. Yes, it is annoying when someone can instantly vanish right in front of you, but that is the intent/design of the item.

The overpowered element is that once that person is hidden, they can instantly begin stealthing away. There is a built in bypass of the skill timer.

Basically, they can smoke and stealth away before you can earthquake, or conflag, etc...

It's the equivalent of Kal Ort Por in PvP.

 

[imported_Daelomin]

If you use smoke bombs and animal form without taking any dumb risks it practically makes you unkillable...

This should be balanced out.

Add summon duration timer for animal form (exaclty how "pet summon balls" work)

Smoke bombs should ONLY be usable when on foot. That would make it work like a ninja/stealth ability and not some "avoid death" ability.

 

[Guest]

The people who complain are the people who refuse to adapt to the new rulesets as they come in. It's why I only play a thief on Siege. I wasn't completely willing to adapt to insurance, so I play a shard where I don't have to. If you wish to fight a ninja, you need to adjust your template properly. Learn the game mechanics and find out how to hunt them. That being said, you might then have a problem fighting players that don't hide, but then again, that is the great thing about UO, it does change and the templates of yesteryear may not work as well as they used to...la

 

[Yenji Yasagari]

Heres an idea. Invest 100 skill points in detect. Then it might be SEMI fair for ninjas, after all, ten second wait on trying to hide or using a smoke bomb again. So we're even. Except for 200 skill points difference in your template and mine.

 

[Guest]

Or maybe they could turn into elves. The passive detect is awful on the production shards. Another reason I play a thief on Siege only...la

 

[Yenji Yasagari]

Point taken rico. I forgot about stealthing on elves, haven't been on my ninja in a long time. Soon though, as soon as I get a suit built on legends.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

The people who complain are the people who refuse to adapt to the new rulesets as they come in. It's why I only play a thief on Siege. I wasn't completely willing to adapt to insurance, so I play a shard where I don't have to. If you wish to fight a ninja, you need to adjust your template properly. Learn the game mechanics and find out how to hunt them. That being said, you might then have a problem fighting players that don't hide, but then again, that is the great thing about UO, it does change and the templates of yesteryear may not work as well as they used to...la

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone playing on a production shard shouldn't be complaining about smoke bombs. I agree with that.

On Siege, hide/stealth is overpowered. We have had many, many discussions and even carrying detect is inadequate because of the timer that was placed on that skill.

You can adapt to hide/stealth on Siege, but even if you do, it still isn't enough.

Edit: Let me explain this....I'm not sure you will understand without further instruction.

This is what I think happened. Stealth archers became a big problem on production shards. So, passive detect was put in to counter them. However, passive detect and detect hidden went too far against stealthers so they added or increased the timer on detect hidden. I think you can only use it about every 10 seconds now.

On Siege, we didn't get passive detect, however we did get stuck with the increase on the detect timer. So now what happens is that even if you detect a stealther, they will just hide again and you have to wait, wait, wait for the timer to run out so that you can detect again. By then, they are gone because hide=insta stealth.

 

[Guest]

The timer should be placed on that skill, otherwise, you might as well throw out the 300 points you need to use those smake bombs. I get revealed all of the time...115 ninjar, GM hiding and 80 stealth. How? To the 100 points in detect, or by simply walking past the wrong elf...la

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

Read above for further explanation.

 

[Guest]

It's not like they are killing you when they are hidden...la

 

[AshOfCaine]

Okay, I will admit I haven't taken my ninja into PvP scenarios, so don't know if Shadow Strike works in PvP but it is what I use in PvM to attack the unsuspecting.

Now, if it does work in PvP, I would be more likely to use it than a smoke bomb.

 

[Guest]

So then you would need high skill in a weapon and in tactics. That's you using your available skill points for a play style. What they want is to be able to nulify these skills used because they have not found a way to counter them.

Field spells work nicely, detect hidden does. Sure you need to time things right, but so does the ninja to make sure they don't run into timer troubles...la

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Using smoke bombs require a massive 300+ skill points (ninjitsu, hiding, stealth), and it's a wholly defensive capability (smoke bombs can't bomb you to death), so it's fine as it is. It's the only way an innocent can survive an evil pk gank squad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have to agree. There is no way anyone able to use a smoke bomb can kill my dexxer therefore I find it fine that they use it to escape my wrath.

If they have no chance of killing me at the very least they should have a fair and equal way to defend which would be using a smoke bomb to disappear.

The way I see it if they can't beat me and they smoke bomb on outta there then I pretty much win. They can't hurt me but they can prevent me from killing them very equal and fair. Far from what I would call over powered.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Using smoke bombs require a massive 300+ skill points (ninjitsu, hiding, stealth

[/ QUOTE ]Bingo. You can't kill people with stealth and hiding, so IMO the smoke bombs make sense.

 

[Guest]

Stealthers Rule!!

Go cry to mommy some more....

Those cheating stealthers have got away again mum!!!!

LOLOOLOLLLLLOLLLOLLOLLLLLOLLLLLLLLOOOOOO

 

[Guest]

If you aren't red, turn red. Poison fields do wonders to keep stealthers away. Earthquake too. I suppose you would have to play that type of character to know best how to counter them, but every template one that can counter them...la

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

Neither of those methods works.

You might reveal a stealther, assuming you aren't in one of the many areas where fields and area effects can't be used but even if a stealther is revealed, they will re-hide, insta stealth and be gone before you can do anything about it.

That is the problem, not on regular shards but on Siege.

 

[Guest]

one word: conflagration

 

[Guest]

Forget it this guy is just mad because he can't KILL the other player not because it is over powered.

Everyone is going to sit here and tell you with 3 skills invested JUST in the ability to escape the other player will lack all offensive abilities to kill anyone else.

And just my personal opinion here but if you get killed by someone with half of their skill tied up in the defensive you should probably stop pvping.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

Forget it this guy is just mad because he can't KILL the other player not because it is over powered.

Everyone is going to sit here and tell you with 3 skills invested JUST in the ability to escape the other player will lack all offensive abilities to kill anyone else.

And just my personal opinion here but if you get killed by someone with half of their skill tied up in the defensive you should probably stop pvping.

[/ QUOTE ]

On production shards, hide/stealth is relatively balanced. What you don't understand and what I'm not making very clear is that on Siege, it is overpowered.

On production shards detect hidden was nerfed because passive detect was put in as a counter to stealth archers. Passive detect was not added to Siege, but we still got the detect hidden nerf.

Because of this situation, stealthers are everywhere on Siege. It is true that one stealther can be annoying. However, on Siege, because it is impractical to detect hiders/stealthers there is never just one. A group of 10 PvPers will have 3 or 4 or 5 stealthers.

So what happens is that the two or three stealth archers will shoot at you with dismount bows from eight tiles away. Then, they chase you with moving shot while at the same time the hidden dexxers reveal and nervestrike, deathstrike, poison you, etc...

This is probably what is difficult for production sharders and dev's to understand. Lake Superior or Atlantic or Great Lakes etc... are not overrun by stealthers because passive detect makes them revealable. On Siege, without passive detect, stealthers are everywhere and while one may have a hard time killing you, it is never just one.

I don't want passive detect on Siege. A good first step would be to remove the detect hidden timer. Again, this was a nerf to passive detect and we don't have passive detect. Take that timer off so that someone who devotes 100 points just so that they can reveal hidden players can actually reveal them. As it is, they just insta-hide as soon as they are detected. The ease of this spawns more and more stealthers.

They can't really be detected. They can't really be killed.

It is a problem.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

one word: conflagration

[/ QUOTE ]

As currently implemented conflags are almost useless.

The only thing they can do is reveal a hider without stealth. If a hider has stealth and you conflag him, he will take one step out of the area effect, instahide/instastealth again, and be off the screen 10 seconds before you can use another conflag.

 

[Guest]

Well I think it's worse, that a player with taming and animal lore can get a greater dragon to fight for him, than a guy can use a smoke bomb to get away.

I also think someone investing 60 skill points in chivalry can negate a majority of necro and some mage spells within a second or so unfair.

We can all make long lists about what needs to be nerfed, but in general the game is in fairly good balance right now, except scripting/cheating of course.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

Well I think it's worse, that a player with taming and animal lore can get a greater dragon to fight for him, than a guy can use a smoke bomb to get away.

I also think someone investing 60 skill points in chivalry can negate a majority of necro and some mage spells within a second or so unfair.

We can all make long lists about what needs to be nerfed, but in general the game is in fairly good balance right now, except scripting/cheating of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you tell when something is unbalanced?

For example, when criticals weren't capped in PvP and perfection could be used on other players, how did we know?

We knew because everyone began running those templates.

Is taming/lore/pets overpowered? Well, for PvM I would say yes. However, I don't PvM much. In PvP, I would say no. The petball changes have balanced pets. I see some PvP tamers now, but we are no longer overrun by them.

Is chivalry overpowered? Well, on Siege using the W.A.G. method, I estimate that 1 player in 10 has 60 chivalry on their template. I wouldn't call that overpowered because again if it were more people would use it.

Back to hiding/stealth then. On your shard, what percent of players use hiding/stealth? If you play a production shard, the number is going to be very low because of passive detect.

On Siege, the number is much higher. To give you an example, on the Siege forum someone posted a screenshot, he was the only one on the screen, the caption was "Big Fight on SP". In case you don't get that, so many people are hide/stealthers here that it is typical for half of the combatants to be hidden at a given time.

That is the difference between the examples you gave and the situation on Siege. Please don't believe that I think hide/stealth is overpowered on your shard. I don't. It is a Siege specific problem.

 

[Masumatek]

<blockquote><hr>

Using smoke bombs require a massive 300+ skill points (ninjitsu, hiding, stealth), and it's a wholly defensive capability (smoke bombs can't bomb you to death), so it's fine as it is. It's the only way an innocent can survive an evil pk gank squad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get 300 points? First of all, you only need 50 points of ninjitsu to use smoke bombs, and plenty of people only get 50 points just for using smoke bombs...that's how powerful they are. And stealth? How many people get over 75-80 stealth? My guess is not a whole lot. Think about it before you throw numbers out there.

Stealth is definitely in an overpowered state and smoke bombs allowing you to just disappear in an instant even if you target is right next to you are definitely part of the problem. You're almost forced to get detect+tracking to deal with stealthers. Just like you're forced to get peace+music if you want to deal with tamers. Smoke bombs, imo, shouldn't even exist at all.

That said, I'm a stealther myself who utilizes smoke bombs and I sympathize with other soloists/small groups since smoke bombs are one of the few things that help us survive the zerg. I certainly hope anyone complaining about smoke bombs isn't a ganker because if they are they have no place complaining.

 

[Guest]

Wildfire potions, Earthquakes, Poison/para/fire fields, Detect Hidden+Tracking (I know there is a timer, but if you got them on tracking, they are screwed), Purple potions, pets follow stealthing people if you can order them to follow while they are not hidden.

If you use Detect+tracking correctly, you will notice the detect skill has a shorter wait period than the hide skill.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

Wildfire potions, Earthquakes, Poison/para/fire fields, Detect Hidden+Tracking (I know there is a timer, but if you got them on tracking, they are screwed), Purple potions, pets follow stealthing people if you can order them to follow while they are not hidden.

If you use Detect+tracking correctly, you will notice the detect skill has a shorter wait period than the hide skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Earthquakes and fields don't work. It takes longer to cast them than it takes a stealther to move out of range. Even if you get lucky and reveal someone, they insta-hide again. Yes, you can track someone but you are still thinking about a single hidden foe. On Siege, it is never just one hider. Because it is nearly impossible to reveal/kill people, there are LOTS of hiders.

Purple potions are completely ineffective too.

Look, you can argue with me all day about things that you think will work against stealthers. I can tell you from experience that on Siege there are lots and lots of stealthers and they are nearly impossible to detect and kill. I have tried to do it and I have played one.

You wouldn't be against removing the detect timer would you? It was put in with passive detect and we don't have passive detect.

Let's start there and see if that helps.

 

[Guest]

I would love it if they lowered the detect timer to how it used to be.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

I would love it if they lowered the detect timer to how it used to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

I would hate the timer being removed. You'd have most groups have someone spamming area detect all the time, you would never be able to duck into the shadows. Also at the champ spawns, they would set specific players to just spam detect. As it is now they can reveal pretty easy if they have tracking...la

[/ QUOTE ]

Reducing the timer instead of removing it would be a good start. That would at least get Siege back to where it was before the passive detect nerf (when we didn't get passive detect).

 

[Guest]

Not getting passive detect was not a nerf...la

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

Passive detect was a nerf to hide/stealth.

I don't consider it bad that Siege doesn't have passive detect. However, we shouldn't be saddled with a timer that was designed to go with passive detect since we didn't get that "feature".

 

[Guest]

Oh sure, nerf thieves a little bit more than we already are. I know you are talking about this in a PvP aspect, but we thieves would probably hurt the most with the changes you are suggesting...la

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

You are welcome to offer other suggestions that would alleviate some of the problems associated with large groups of hidden players while leaving thieves to ply their trade.

Do you need smokebombs to do what you do?

 

[Redxpanda]

This is one of the funniest posts i have seen in a long time but a good example of how pvpers think. You shouldn't be able to kill a ninja easily (i mean that is the whole point of ninjas). Last time i checked, hiding, stealth and ninjitsu arent the easiest skills to train and here you are with your golem trained weapon skills and your bunny trained parry getting the upperhand on some ninja and you expect him to just have to sit there and get killed (doesn't matter who started the fight). No sir! Ninjas are Ninjas so act accordingly. You want to be able to cast earthquake or thunderstorm and suddenly the ninja pops back into view? Try Tracking and Detect hidden on for size. They invested enough time and skill points in being able to get away so how about you invest some in keeping them from getting away.

 

[Guest]

I still think this is a load of crap.

Seriously if you are out numbered by any type of character your going to lose. That is ultima online if you don't want to live with losing once in a while don't play the game.

There are ways to deal with the template siege or not and passive detect has little to do with this at all.

What you are saying is that you run a template particularly vulnerable to the other players methods.

You are out numbered.

And complaining because you can't win.

No one here is going to side with you and say oh yes this should be fixed right now!

Instead we are going to tell you to find a way to counter the template your against and get friends to even the numbers in the fight. Because that is the real answer here not a nerf to smoke bombs.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

This is one of the funniest posts i have seen in a long time but a good example of how pvpers think. You shouldn't be able to kill a ninja easily (i mean that is the whole point of ninjas). Last time i checked, hiding, stealth and ninjitsu arent the easiest skills to train and here you are with your golem trained weapon skills and your bunny trained parry getting the upperhand on some ninja and you expect him to just have to sit there and get killed (doesn't matter who started the fight). No sir! Ninjas are Ninjas so act accordingly. You want to be able to cast earthquake or thunderstorm and suddenly the ninja pops back into view? Try Tracking and Detect hidden on for size. They invested enough time and skill points in being able to get away so how about you invest some in keeping them from getting away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hiding is the easiest skill in the game to train.

Ninja only has to be trained to 50 to use a smokebomb.

Stealth only requires 75 skill to be 100 percent effective.

Your argument about training time has no merit.

As for detect and tracking, I wouldn't waste my time with those skills on a production shard. Passive detect balances hide/stealth by itself.

On Siege, which is now the majority of the discussion here, the lack of passive detect results in disproportionate numbers of hide/steathers.

Suggestions for a solution on Siege are appreciated.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

I still think this is a load of crap.

Seriously if you are out numbered by any type of character your going to lose. That is ultima online if you don't want to live with losing once in a while don't play the game.

There are ways to deal with the template siege or not and passive detect has little to do with this at all.

What you are saying is that you run a template particularly vulnerable to the other players methods.

You are out numbered.

And complaining because you can't win.

No one here is going to side with you and say oh yes this should be fixed right now!

Instead we are going to tell you to find a way to counter the template your against and get friends to even the numbers in the fight. Because that is the real answer here not a nerf to smoke bombs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are entitled to your opinion but without any experience on Siege, it isn't worth much.

 

[Redxpanda]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

This is one of the funniest posts i have seen in a long time but a good example of how pvpers think. You shouldn't be able to kill a ninja easily (i mean that is the whole point of ninjas). Last time i checked, hiding, stealth and ninjitsu arent the easiest skills to train and here you are with your golem trained weapon skills and your bunny trained parry getting the upperhand on some ninja and you expect him to just have to sit there and get killed (doesn't matter who started the fight). No sir! Ninjas are Ninjas so act accordingly. You want to be able to cast earthquake or thunderstorm and suddenly the ninja pops back into view? Try Tracking and Detect hidden on for size. They invested enough time and skill points in being able to get away so how about you invest some in keeping them from getting away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hiding is the easiest skill in the game to train.

Ninja only has to be trained to 50 to use a smokebomb.

Stealth only requires 75 skill to be 100 percent effective.

Your argument about training time has no merit.

As for detect and tracking, I wouldn't waste my time with those skills on a production shard. Passive detect balances hide/stealth by itself.

On Siege, which is now the majority of the discussion here, the lack of passive detect results in disproportionate numbers of hide/steathers.

Suggestions for a solution on Siege are appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

People still play on siege? LOL!

Anyhow, since when is hiding so easy to train? Since when is it easy to raise stealth to 75? Anyhoo, someone using smoke bombs and escaping with their skills at 50 75 just got lucky and does not require a nerf. A ninja's best defense is escape and alot of skillpoints have to be invested in order to do so.

Nerf it so you don't have to invest skillpoints to catch them? That my friend is amusing.

Edit in: Let's call them bunny rabbits or jedi or something, then we can nerf em and it will make sense.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You are entitled to your opinion but without any experience on Siege, it isn't worth much.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you say this because you know what experience I have? I know what siege is all about been there done that so don't tell me what experience I have...

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

This is one of the funniest posts i have seen in a long time but a good example of how pvpers think. You shouldn't be able to kill a ninja easily (i mean that is the whole point of ninjas). Last time i checked, hiding, stealth and ninjitsu arent the easiest skills to train and here you are with your golem trained weapon skills and your bunny trained parry getting the upperhand on some ninja and you expect him to just have to sit there and get killed (doesn't matter who started the fight). No sir! Ninjas are Ninjas so act accordingly. You want to be able to cast earthquake or thunderstorm and suddenly the ninja pops back into view? Try Tracking and Detect hidden on for size. They invested enough time and skill points in being able to get away so how about you invest some in keeping them from getting away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hiding is the easiest skill in the game to train.

Ninja only has to be trained to 50 to use a smokebomb.

Stealth only requires 75 skill to be 100 percent effective.

Your argument about training time has no merit.

As for detect and tracking, I wouldn't waste my time with those skills on a production shard. Passive detect balances hide/stealth by itself.

On Siege, which is now the majority of the discussion here, the lack of passive detect results in disproportionate numbers of hide/steathers.

Suggestions for a solution on Siege are appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

People still play on siege? LOL!

Anyhow, since when is hiding so easy to train? Since when is it easy to raise stealth to 75? Anyhoo, someone using smoke bombs and escaping with their skills at 50 75 just got lucky and does not require a nerf. A ninja's best defense is escape and alot of skillpoints have to be invested in order to do so.

Nerf it so you don't have to invest skillpoints to catch them? That my friend is amusing.

Edit in: Let's call them bunny rabbits or jedi or something, then we can nerf em and it will make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since they did away with the anti-macro code a couple years ago all you have to do to train hiding is stand in one spot and hide over and over and over. Spacebar macro for the skill and a roll of coins equals the easiest skill in UO to train.

While having additional points invested in Ninja allows animal form to be used reliably, 225 combined points in stealth, ninja and hiding is all that is needed to successfully use a smoke bomb and stealth with 100 percent success.

Very few people on Siege currently invest the skill points in detect hidden because the way it is currently implemented (i.e. use timer) makes it virtually useless against hidden players. People would be happy to add detect but it just isn't useful.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You are entitled to your opinion but without any experience on Siege, it isn't worth much.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you say this because you know what experience I have? I know what siege is all about been there done that so don't tell me what experience I have...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any experience on Siege in the last few years since passive detect was added on production shards but not Siege?

Here are some numbers for you.

I looked at the skill averages for the top 5 guilds on Atlantic and Siege.

For comparison, I first used magery. On Atlantic the skill average for magery is 56.2. On Siege, the skill average for magery is 63.1.

For hiding, on Atlantic the skill average is 14.9. ON SIEGE THE SKILL AVERAGE FOR HIDING AMONG THE TOP 5 GUILDS IS 48.5. ROUGHLY HALF THE PLAYERS ON SIEGE HAVE GM HIDING ON THEIR TEMPLATES.

The lack of a viable way to detect hidden players is a significant issue.

 

[Guest]

What are you talking about, detect hidden and tracking work just fine. If you don't like people having hiding, that's too bad. It sounds like you need to learn how to adapt...la