Sloppy/buggy code on-top of Sloppy/buggy code

[Mervyn]

Publish 73 looks to inject some great and exciting content into the game. No code is perfect and there's a reason for test shards, everyone makes mistakes, it's near impossible to write perfect code.

However, my concern is. If you look at the bug fixes on publish 73 compared to the bug issues reported from june 2011, almost none of the issues have been fixed.

Buggy code stacked on-top of already buggy code is asking for trouble, I think the team needs to fix what is currently there before adding new content.

 

[Ludes]

It's always been this way though.. when UO was originally created there were no precedents.. Internet was mostly dial-up if it was available at all.

Almost all the coding for Ultima Online was pretty much just made up as they went along.
And of course the original writers are long gone. Noone would be able to go back and fix all the multiple layers of bugs that have been patched or written around.

Sadly controversy among players prevents the option of writing a new client.. or even adapting an existing engine.

So most bugs of long standing will just have to be played around.

 

[Mervyn]

It's always been this way though.. when UO was originally created there were no precedents.. Internet was mostly dial-up if it was available at all.

Almost all the coding for Ultima Online was pretty much just made up as they went along.
And of course the original writers are long gone. Noone would be able to go back and fix all the multiple layers of bugs that have been patched or written around.

Sadly controversy among players prevents the option of writing a new client.. or even adapting an existing engine.

So most bugs of long standing will just have to be played around.

So you're saying the team are not sloppy, but incompetent as they're not fit for purpose?

Also, a lot of the bugs are in just the EC and not CC.

 

[Ludes]

The current team should in no way be blamed for the state of the client. It's not that they are "unfit", I'm sure they are quite competent in modern day coding. But UO is very old and probably lost all hints of structered coding a long time ago.

And yes EC has it's bugs as well but I was refering to old bugs that have been around a while.
And don't forget the EC isn't actually a new client.. just an enhanced one.

 

[Anakena]

So you're saying the team are not sloppy, but incompetent as they're not fit for purpose?

Also, a lot of the bugs are in just the EC and not CC.

The actual UO code (at least the client, but i guess the server too) is composed of the original code + all the patches applied during 14 years. I suppose there is right now more patch code than original code. And I guess a big part of that mess is not documented.

The problem is thus not about being fit or not, it is just a choice about what to do with a limited Dev team. In an ideal world, EA/Mythic would hire a dedicated Dev team that would work to make a new Classic client. But we are on earth ...

 

[kelmo]

I like mine with meat balls. *nods*

 

[phantus]

That's a very conservative portion you have there kelmo....watching your girlish figure?


Buggy code is a way of UO life OP. Maybe we'll see more squashing with all the new franchiseness coming around.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I heard a lot of things were compiled, modular like, and some of them have zero documentation, the turkey thing comes to mind for some reason (as it was done in a dev's off-time, and they got canned later taking the source w/ them).

So, as they get time, they have to try to recreate older modules, thus fixing some bugs in the process - is why it takes so long?

 

[Mervyn]

It's always been this way though..

oh that makes it fine

 

[Ludes]

I heard a lot of things were compiled, modular like, and some of them have zero documentation, the turkey thing comes to mind for some reason (as it was done in a dev's off-time, and they got canned later taking the source w/ them).

So, as they get time, they have to try to recreate older modules, thus fixing some bugs in the process - is why it takes so long?

No.. but this ^ makes it fine.. It has to since it can't be remedied. Recite your serenity prayer and understand it "CAN'T" be fixed.

Only a complete rewrite would fix everything.. and for reasons that have been stated ad nauseam this cannot be done at this time.

 

[PJay]

I cant believe that a lot of the Bugs posted in june 2011 cannot be fixed. I can however believe they will take time to fix!

To some players like myself it would seem currently theres been an explosion of new added content and not a lot of bug fixing. Now surely time spent in one area means the time spent in the other is diminished!

If there are genuinly bugs that cannot be fixed can we get some 'ok folks we spent a great number of hours on this and we cannot fix it'. Then we can move on and accept it as uo life untill that day they remain bugs.

Also many of the bugs posted are recent additions to the game therefore the coding age excuse dosnt or shouldnt apply. Some of the EC bugs give players massive advantages in areas such as pvp therefore need some kind of fix or justification!

 

[A Thought Elemental]

I heard a lot of things were compiled, modular like, and some of them have zero documentation, the turkey thing comes to mind for some reason (as it was done in a dev's off-time, and they got canned later taking the source w/ them).

So, as they get time, they have to try to recreate older modules, thus fixing some bugs in the process - is why it takes so long?

That sounds freaky.

I hope it is not that bad in there server-side, but.. given the age of the thing and all the hands it's been through.. maybe.

* covers eyes with hand *

 

[A Thought Elemental]

Only a complete rewrite would fix everything.. and for reasons that have been stated ad nauseam this cannot be done at this time.

Kinda yeah.

There are a number of what they call UO server emulators out there. Those were hobbyist type efforts. So in a sense it can be done, it is clear. But - - those little emulators do not scale up the same way as the actual UO servers do - for example the emulators do not to my knowledge use a subserver type arrangement. Seems like UO would need to retain some subserver arrangement (but maybe does not need to use the old 'server lines' any more and can group some of those together, considering the hardware advances lately).

Considering the above - maybe it is not as impossible a task as it feels like BUT - I do not code in these languages myself. So in my case, it's a little like assuming based upon what I'm seeing around me as opposed with actual knowledge. And you know what ASSUME means.

 

[Ludes]

That sounds freaky.

I hope it is not that bad in there server-side, but.. given the age of the thing and all the hands it's been through.. maybe.

* covers eyes with hand *

It does sound freaky but it's exactly what has happened.. it has been fourteen years after all.
I actually think the ratio of New Content vs Bug Fixes vs Customer Relations isn't looking so bad in recent weeks.

 

[PJay]

They have certainly worked on two of those aspects and neglected another. Tho im very pleased the egg nog is fixed :S

Surely once Wrong is released they have bought themselves 3 - 4 months to bug fix and take stock or do you think more and more bugged content should be added?

Caio!

 

[Ludes]

I like mine with meat balls. *nods*

Early morning munchies Kelmo?

Actually I think there are people deciding how much effort goes into Ultima Online..
And, there are people deciding how to split that effort between all areas on Ultima.

New Content, Bug Fixes, Hardware Upkeep, Customer Relations and many other subcategories that need to be paid for.
That just happens to be their job not mine and I hope they make good decisions and don't end up "moving on to new experiences".

All us oldtimers know if they ever do drop UO we'll all move to (unmentionable environment).

 

[kelmo]

mmmm... spaghetti code with meat balls for breakfast.

 

[Ludes]

But let's not hijack the OP's thread..

Ya gotta admit the bugs with the suits got fixed pretty quick as soon as people on Origin started reporting them.. it did take a revert to repair most of the damage. But Origin is kinda set up to catch things that get by Test Shards

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread is neither helpful, constructive nor useful. Jeff has said there will be a major effort to fix bugs. First they have to accurately pinpoint what's causing them, then work out how to fix them without breaking something else.
Sometimes seemingly less important bugs appear to get fixed first, this can sometimes simply be that the cause was found easily, or even accidentally while looking for something else.

Until/unless you have first hand knowledge of the problems being faced I don't think threads titled as this one is have any place here.