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Silly question..one more time..

celticus

Babbling Loonie
Isn't it tabout ime for a fix to the PKing at Fel spawns for the PS for pets and new characters?
Why is it still there? Does the pet revamp count for anything with PS?
Why not change it so that at least in certain Fel - PS spawns there can be no PK?
How can players get their PS otherwise?
The way it is, the PK's control these spawns, and still have major impact on the PS market.
Its not enough to grind the spawn, you also have to sustain being PKed? What sense does this make?
Or make it so the PS drop in some non-PK areas?
PS for pets is not end game stuff, and it is needed also for new players.
Make it so that during the spawn and in the spawn area there can be no PK, at least in some of the Fel champs. Do the PKing outside of the champ spawns?
it is a little more than one year after the pet revamp, and the same old problem..lol.

@Kyronix, @Bleaque, @mesana any thoughts?
 
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Zalan

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This may not be the answer you want. Its risk vs rewards. If you remove Power Scrolls from Fel. There is no reason to go. The Development team is small. This would be more work than the probable could do. Your talking about Pre-AoS code publish 16. I bet Power Scrolls would end up in UO store, before doing what you want.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
find a dead shard, and do spawns at server up. if the local pvp'ers show up, cut a deal with them,or join them :)
 

DJAd

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Isn't it tabout ime for a fix to the PKing at Fel spawns for the PS for pets and new characters?
What needs fixing? Spawns are great for both pvm and pvp. I think they are all working as intended and nothing to fix.
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
Oh, maybe you can buy a PS at a vendor? Or join a PVP guild that does spawns and has their own reds in it?
Lots of people would like to try and get their own PS with improved game mechanics.

--Buy them at a vendor : You are depleting hard earned uo $ from your account, and you are fueling the fire. You are lining the pockets of PK's. Not a good option esp. if you do not have the time and $.
--Join the PK guild : You are kissing up to PKs, and that does not sit too well with many people's conscience or gameplay. Every time you need to go to Fel PS spawns you have to ask for protection or permission from PK's? Other options:
--Make a spawning toon that can do PvP? But most people going there for their pets are not PvPers, and ALSO a spawning toon is never any good at PvP. Losing proposition.
--Buy the PS from on line stores? Those are in all probability the very PKers websites and/or fueled by PKers most likely. Even more inappropriate than buying them from UO vendors.

The PKers will tell you : But you DONT NEED PS to have a decent pet, and new players DONT NEED 120 PS for their toons, and they call PK as PVP, and give all sorts of excuses to continue the status quo:
--It has been like this for years. Why change it now?
--PK is an integral part of UO and has been for years, and cannot be changed.
--Why don't you learn PK/PvP yourselves?
--PS is the ONLY reason to go to Fel, and its the ONLY content in Fel going after.
--If the way that this is happening changes they will QUIT UO (OMG what a loss!).
--That PKers/PVPers constitute a LARGE portion of the UO player-base, and they have a lot of say-so in the game.
--Other similar Bull**it, all perverted truths that fit the needs of only few unsavory players. And of course all these disregard the downgrade of the PS that are now used on PETS, mostly and not players toons. And the fact that the prices are still high, a year later after the revamp.

This is still defeating the pet revamp changes for UO. Allow more people to participate in getting their PS without being PKed after working at a spawn would be better for UO, allow increased use of the spawns and the game content associated with these spawns.

You want to be a SCUMBAG? Fine but not at all Fel spawns, all the time. You can be so elsewhere, so you can allow some of a HUGE group of players to get the PS content without paying up the arse for insurance money and lost time?

New concepts folks! That is part of a game that is alive and well and improving? Hint : Pet Revamp?
As it is now the PKers are RUINING the fun of a LARGE group of players. Should that continue?
@Bleaque, what do you think?
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
You're funny. How dare those foul PKers have something for themselves.
Right, and that something is critical value for the entire taming community! And thats the only thing they have : Just being foul and PKing non-PvP players with no interest in getting PKed while they are getting of all things PS for their pets!! Lol, yes thats VERY funny! You still miss the point: The Fel spawn PKers are no one else but the ones that need to have a CHOKE-HOLD on the PS : Surprise-surprise ones and the same that sell them directly or indirectly in their web stores? Same one that advertise unobstructed in game> Avatar1,2,3,4 etc?
Ooooo Brave PKer, ONLY content is PS and Fel spawns!
Any other excuses/lies? One of the reasons the game SUCKS is the PKers (that is not the same as PvPers).
Have the PKers have all they have, including Tram content that they DO have, and they have the entire game to mess with, like everyone else. Also let the PKers PK one another all they like..
But allow the tamers get PS for their pets WITHOUT getting PKed.
Its about time for the DEVS to do one more update : PK for PS farming update. Needs fixing bud, whether you understand it or not. Bunch of misinformation/lies/excuses will not help the game in the long run.
 

Mervyn

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Yes why can't all the teams in the world win the world cup? It's not fair...

Today on Europa, I witnessed a red kill a couple of blues, then I killed the red who killed the blues.
 

BeaIank

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
Out of all champ spawns I have done so far, I was raided in only 2 of them and in 1 harrower.
That is out of hundreds if not thousands of spawns I have done.

Find a low profile, low traffic T2A spawn and do it twice or thrice every weekend.
 

Xare

Journeyman
The general consensus here is:
a) you need to just go do them yourself. Really, its not hard. Trust me, I even do them on my tamer. Quit acting like dying is a the worst thing ever. You get crashed, big deal.
b) Quit acting like the damage difference between a scrolled pet and an un-scrolled one is that big a deal. I doubt you even know the math behind it. So yes, a scrolled one will do more damage. Suck it up buttercup.
c) "Hard earned uo gold" - Thanks, I need the laugh. Wait, that wasn't a joke?
d) How about we remove all PS. Solves the problem for everyone.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
b) Quit acting like the damage difference between a scrolled pet and an un-scrolled one is that big a deal. I doubt you even know the math behind it. So yes, a scrolled one will do more damage.
Im gonna trust everything you say! You is good at contradictions.

Or after you said math you got smarter and had a realization.
 

Xare

Journeyman
Im gonna trust everything you say! You is good at contradictions.

Or after you said math you got smarter and had a realization.
lol, I deserved that.

I was trying to say that yes, there is more damage from a scrolled pet, but the majority of tamers couldn't tell you how much that difference is. He/she is trying to argue that tamers are being basically oppressed by the inability to earn PS on their own. I was trying to point out that they're ignorant of the total benefit of a scrolled pet.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Gives us something to read. We tell them the same about spawns in the tamer forum. Go do a random T2A spawn.
 

Anon McDougle

Seasoned Veteran
Why can't i buy PS from the store why can't i buy everything that i could from a non-approved site if they are unable to shut down these sellers why not join them....
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Bonnie calls that pay to win. She is against that. But she may not control the store inventory. Maybe some emails to whoever does decide what the store sells. There are many items I would but if they had them. A pet respec token! 1000 more pet training points!
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
Several points being missed conveniently are:
--PS before the revamp were for toons, player characters. They were kind of end-game item, and prized. Then.
--Now since the pet revamp they are far beyond that : They are a commodity, much more needed by a LOT of people, and not for toons, but for PETS of all things! Their prices continue to be very very high and not very well tolerated even 1 year after the revamp. And yes 50-100 M for just configuring a pet is a lot of UO gold, for people that don't have the luxury of farming gold in UO 20-50 hours/week, and also have real lives and jobs.
--What was the idea of putting out a "pet revamp" and using white PS that are used for players, and making it clear you need to get PK'ed or risk that, lose time and effort just to scroll pets?
--PKing at PS spawn sites in Fel is counterproductive to game improvement. Making people NOT to go there and access the content there cannot be helping the game in any way. Instead it helps the RMT web stores, and the PKers, that are not by any stretch of the imagination the majority of people in the game.
--PKing at PS spawns..What other purpose does it have other than discourage and keep players away from content now that we have the "pet revamp"? What benefit is that to the game? Who does it benefit? Not UO, unless the dev team is part of the RMT system plaguing UO.
--Looking at it objectively from a game development perspective, PKing at PET PS spawns needs a revamp of it own. Make it so that at least one of the PS spawns has NO PKing allowed. Put a guard system there like in towns. Perhaps in the Piper spawn? That is the easiest and fastest spawn for new people also. Or something like that. It does not take any programming and the mechanics are there : Called "guards". Allow people to get their PS, then chase them for the PS, but provide some relative means of escape.
--It is NOT the PKers alone that are to blame alone for this. They enjoy playing SCUMBAG role for fun and profit, and likely RMT profit ultimately. Most importantly it is the DEVS, with their exceptionally poor fore sight, and 100% hind sight, for not predicting what happened, and not having provided OTHER means of upgrading pets.
--Lies, half-truths, excuses, personal BS anecdotes will not help with this, and all the arguments presented by PKers are BS. We need just real arguments, remembering that this is not any longer AOS, it is now 2018, and that there is such a thing as "pet revamp", and pets eating scrolls at a rate never before encountered in this game, and with still sky high prices.
--Most normal people would like to go to PS farming with their friends themselves, they would rather NOT buy the PS RMT or vendor, enjoy getting them, and not get PKed and Griefed while doing that.
--Grow some B*LLS and see reality for what it is buttercup: If you are a PKer at spawns you are a SCUMBAG, and you are contributing to the demise of this game one way or another, whether you are the RMT "Avatar 1,2,3,4" advertiser in game, or just a lousy low-life griefer.
--It is ONE YEAR already people. Open your eyes and see reality.
--Yes no big deal getting PKed at the spawns. Does it make it right? Do the PKing ELSEWHERE. Try to PK the mining farmers or other people that come to PK land for other content.
 

Xare

Journeyman
Fel CS and power scrolls were here (long, long, LONG) before the pet revamp. So far, none of the reasons you've listed are enough to counteract that simple point.

I'll entertain you and go point by point.

--PS before the revamp were for toons, player characters. They were kind of end-game item, and prized. Then. - Yup. And now they're for people's toons and their pets. What's the problem? Still end-game item, and still prized. If nothing else, the pet revamp has increased the popularity of spawns and scrolls, and increased the prices. Again, its not required to scroll your pet, you just think it is.

--Now since the pet revamp they are far beyond that : They are a commodity, much more needed by a LOT of people, and not for toons, but for PETS of all things! Their prices continue to be very very high and not very well tolerated even 1 year after the revamp. And yes 50-100 M for just configuring a pet is a lot of UO gold, for people that don't have the luxury of farming gold in UO 20-50 hours/week, and also have real lives and jobs. - So? It is a lot of gold, I agree. Maybe do your own spawns buttercup. Sell what you don't want, and buy what you do. Side note, you could theoretically farm lvl 1 spawns until they bump, get the 105s and eventually roll them up.

--What was the idea of putting out a "pet revamp" and using white PS that are used for players, and making it clear you need to get PK'ed or risk that, lose time and effort just to scroll pets? - .. uhh the Devs? Again, scrolls were introduced as a way of improving characters/pets, but the method of doing it was risky, hence why they're in fel.

--PKing at PS spawn sites in Fel is counterproductive to game improvement. Making people NOT to go there and access the content there cannot be helping the game in any way. Instead it helps the RMT web stores, and the PKers, that are not by any stretch of the imagination the majority of people in the game. - Disagree. You're ignoring that some people play this game for the pvp. I'm sorry that is disappointing. Its also the very nature of a sandbox MMO; people can do anything. There are people who are attracted to this. There's absolutely no reason to not go to Fel. Again, dying is not the end of the world.

--PKing at PS spawns..What other purpose does it have other than discourage and keep players away from content now that we have the "pet revamp"? What benefit is that to the game? Who does it benefit? Not UO, unless the dev team is part of the RMT system plaguing UO. - Uhh so tamers are the center of the game? I suppose that's always been true, but still, that's an extremely self centered view to take. UO benefits by maintaining the heritage its had since its inception. Most pvp players I know who crash spawns (usually mine) don't do it for the scrolls, they do it for the pvp. And there is no other pvp outlet in the game that attracts other players (don't make me laugh by pointing out VvV).

--Looking at it objectively from a game development perspective, PKing at PET PS spawns needs a revamp of it own. Make it so that at least one of the PS spawns has NO PKing allowed. Put a guard system there like in towns. Perhaps in the Piper spawn? That is the easiest and fastest spawn for new people also. Or something like that. It does not take any programming and the mechanics are there : Called "guards". Allow people to get their PS, then chase them for the PS, but provide some relative means of escape. - I have no counter to this because it is simply asinine. See all other comments. As for no escape; uhh run? Not hard.

--It is NOT the PKers alone that are to blame alone for this. They enjoy playing SCUMBAG role for fun and profit, and likely RMT profit ultimately. Most importantly it is the DEVS, with their exceptionally poor fore sight, and 100% hind sight, for not predicting what happened, and not having provided OTHER means of upgrading pets. - Scumbag? Sure. Sandbox MMO? Yup. Be good, be evil. Welcome to UO. There's the door if you don't like it. I believe the Dev team was foresighted enough to realize that this would increase demand on PS and deliberately left the system unchanged.

--Lies, half-truths, excuses, personal BS anecdotes will not help with this, and all the arguments presented by PKers are BS. We need just real arguments, remembering that this is not any longer AOS, it is now 2018, and that there is such a thing as "pet revamp", and pets eating scrolls at a rate never before encountered in this game, and with still sky high prices. - I'm still waiting for you (or someone else) to provide real arguments for moving them.


--Most normal people would like to go to PS farming with their friends themselves, they would rather NOT buy the PS RMT or vendor, enjoy getting them, and not get PKed and Griefed while doing that. - Then do it? What's stopping you? Death? I can get a spawn off any day of the week without a single person crashing. 2 people can do a spawn in a half hour. 4 in about 20.

--Grow some B*LLS and see reality for what it is buttercup: If you are a PKer at spawns you are a SCUMBAG, and you are contributing to the demise of this game one way or another, whether you are the RMT "Avatar 1,2,3,4" advertiser in game, or just a lousy low-life griefer. - You said it best "Grow some B*LLS and see reality for what it is buttercup." Nothing more to say here.

--It is ONE YEAR already people. Open your eyes and see reality. - See above.

--Yes no big deal getting PKed at the spawns. Does it make it right? Do the PKing ELSEWHERE. Try to PK the mining farmers or other people that come to PK land for other content. - PK elsewhere would happen if people where elsewhere.
 

Brianna of Sonoma

Visitor
Governor
so as a pvm'er of Sonoma I go out daily and do champ spawns by myself and with friends and i/we get raided daily but i keep going because i want the scrolls for my pets and for my friends...maybe you could find a pvm'er on your shard and have them teach you how to play so that you can do a better job of using your pets to kill the mobs and get the scrolls for yourself
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
Fel CS and power scrolls were here (long, long, LONG) before the pet revamp. So far, none of the reasons you've listed are enough to counteract that simple point.

I'll entertain you and go point by point.

--PS before the revamp were for toons, player characters. They were kind of end-game item, and prized. Then. - Yup. And now they're for people's toons and their pets. What's the problem? Still end-game item, and still prized. If nothing else, the pet revamp has increased the popularity of spawns and scrolls, and increased the prices. Again, its not required to scroll your pet, you just think it is.

--Now since the pet revamp they are far beyond that : They are a commodity, much more needed by a LOT of people, and not for toons, but for PETS of all things! Their prices continue to be very very high and not very well tolerated even 1 year after the revamp. And yes 50-100 M for just configuring a pet is a lot of UO gold, for people that don't have the luxury of farming gold in UO 20-50 hours/week, and also have real lives and jobs. - So? It is a lot of gold, I agree. Maybe do your own spawns buttercup. Sell what you don't want, and buy what you do. Side note, you could theoretically farm lvl 1 spawns until they bump, get the 105s and eventually roll them up.

--What was the idea of putting out a "pet revamp" and using white PS that are used for players, and making it clear you need to get PK'ed or risk that, lose time and effort just to scroll pets? - .. uhh the Devs? Again, scrolls were introduced as a way of improving characters/pets, but the method of doing it was risky, hence why they're in fel.

--PKing at PS spawn sites in Fel is counterproductive to game improvement. Making people NOT to go there and access the content there cannot be helping the game in any way. Instead it helps the RMT web stores, and the PKers, that are not by any stretch of the imagination the majority of people in the game. - Disagree. You're ignoring that some people play this game for the pvp. I'm sorry that is disappointing. Its also the very nature of a sandbox MMO; people can do anything. There are people who are attracted to this. There's absolutely no reason to not go to Fel. Again, dying is not the end of the world.

--PKing at PS spawns..What other purpose does it have other than discourage and keep players away from content now that we have the "pet revamp"? What benefit is that to the game? Who does it benefit? Not UO, unless the dev team is part of the RMT system plaguing UO. - Uhh so tamers are the center of the game? I suppose that's always been true, but still, that's an extremely self centered view to take. UO benefits by maintaining the heritage its had since its inception. Most pvp players I know who crash spawns (usually mine) don't do it for the scrolls, they do it for the pvp. And there is no other pvp outlet in the game that attracts other players (don't make me laugh by pointing out VvV).

--Looking at it objectively from a game development perspective, PKing at PET PS spawns needs a revamp of it own. Make it so that at least one of the PS spawns has NO PKing allowed. Put a guard system there like in towns. Perhaps in the Piper spawn? That is the easiest and fastest spawn for new people also. Or something like that. It does not take any programming and the mechanics are there : Called "guards". Allow people to get their PS, then chase them for the PS, but provide some relative means of escape. - I have no counter to this because it is simply asinine. See all other comments. As for no escape; uhh run? Not hard.

--It is NOT the PKers alone that are to blame alone for this. They enjoy playing SCUMBAG role for fun and profit, and likely RMT profit ultimately. Most importantly it is the DEVS, with their exceptionally poor fore sight, and 100% hind sight, for not predicting what happened, and not having provided OTHER means of upgrading pets. - Scumbag? Sure. Sandbox MMO? Yup. Be good, be evil. Welcome to UO. There's the door if you don't like it. I believe the Dev team was foresighted enough to realize that this would increase demand on PS and deliberately left the system unchanged.

--Lies, half-truths, excuses, personal BS anecdotes will not help with this, and all the arguments presented by PKers are BS. We need just real arguments, remembering that this is not any longer AOS, it is now 2018, and that there is such a thing as "pet revamp", and pets eating scrolls at a rate never before encountered in this game, and with still sky high prices. - I'm still waiting for you (or someone else) to provide real arguments for moving them.


--Most normal people would like to go to PS farming with their friends themselves, they would rather NOT buy the PS RMT or vendor, enjoy getting them, and not get PKed and Griefed while doing that. - Then do it? What's stopping you? Death? I can get a spawn off any day of the week without a single person crashing. 2 people can do a spawn in a half hour. 4 in about 20.

--Grow some B*LLS and see reality for what it is buttercup: If you are a PKer at spawns you are a SCUMBAG, and you are contributing to the demise of this game one way or another, whether you are the RMT "Avatar 1,2,3,4" advertiser in game, or just a lousy low-life griefer. - You said it best "Grow some B*LLS and see reality for what it is buttercup." Nothing more to say here.

--It is ONE YEAR already people. Open your eyes and see reality. - See above.

--Yes no big deal getting PKed at the spawns. Does it make it right? Do the PKing ELSEWHERE. Try to PK the mining farmers or other people that come to PK land for other content. - PK elsewhere would happen if people where elsewhere.
Every point in the initial comment : Right. Every point answered in this answer : Fake news, excuses and subterfuge.
These are the comments of a PKer trying to maintain the precious status quo. Buttercup! LOL!
All the points have been stated, no need to belabor any of this. I think also that these are common knowledge to everyone who has played UO for a little white, and maybe has a tamer..Oh and I like the comment that the Devs knew that this is going to happen, and have it working as intended. Like they knew what was going to happen with the pet specs, and the pet hacks, and the 1001 ninja nerfs and changes to pets? At the same time trying to attract new players with EJ? Good luck with your theories..Buttercup!! LOL.
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
so as a pvm'er of Sonoma I go out daily and do champ spawns by myself and with friends and i/we get raided daily but i keep going because i want the scrolls for my pets and for my friends...maybe you could find a pvm'er on your shard and have them teach you how to play so that you can do a better job of using your pets to kill the mobs and get the scrolls for yourself
Yes but what you do with your pets when the reds arrive? Your pets are worthless against other players. You run right? If you can. So you get killed how many times a day or a week? You get to enjoy this? How about the loss of time? Also did you try to play Atlantic? Or is Sonoma one of the nearly dead shards? Guess it is one of the positives of playing in a half dead to dead shard.
Yep. Lets all enjoy a little PK. Just to keep the PK morons happy. This is the ONLY content they enjoy. So keep them happy. The Devs approve it! So it must be as planned, and of course it is as it was umteen years ago..Got to keep the PK nostalgia going..
 

Luvmylace

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
this is a dead top
Isn't it tabout ime for a fix to the PKing at Fel spawns for the PS for pets and new characters?
Why is it still there? Does the pet revamp count for anything with PS?
Why not change it so that at least in certain Fel - PS spawns there can be no PK?
How can players get their PS otherwise?
The way it is, the PK's control these spawns, and still have major impact on the PS market.
Its not enough to grind the spawn, you also have to sustain being PKed? What sense does this make?
Or make it so the PS drop in some non-PK areas?
PS for pets is not end game stuff, and it is needed also for new players.
Make it so that during the spawn and in the spawn area there can be no PK, at least in some of the Fel champs. Do the PKing outside of the champ spawns?
it is a little more than one year after the pet revamp, and the same old problem..lol.

@Kyronix, @Bleaque, @mesana any thoughts?
this topic is getting old . make a better character and go get scrolls like everyone else. this is just another whine.cause you can't have it all easy
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
Understand. Topic is old and likely dead. And I haven'd been PKed yet. This is not about me or anyone specific. Its about the game, and the game evolution. But agree. Long drawn posts in previous threads with points and counterpoints. its about the philosophy of kissing up and selling your game to players. Anyways nothing will ever be done. Especially if people do not agree on the facts.
 

Mervyn

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
So is it okay for people to PK you on a tamer then?


you don't even NEED to do a champ to get 120 scrolls, it takes like 3 mins, there are so many greedy sampires out there who will SOLO work an entire spawn, you can just take it off them with 0 effort required, WAY easier than working a spawn yourself:

easy despise

biblewithmervyn
 
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MissEcho

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The devs wasted a huge opportunity to improve content for ALL players when they shortsightedly made powerscrolls for pets the same as for players. Sure, you want to gimp out your char, then yes, go to fel for your powerscrolls, it has been that way since day dot and never shall it change.

We get it, risk v reward and all that twaddle, although to be fair, the only 'risk' is to the non pvp style player having to be forced to go and do something they don't particularly wanna do. Such is life. But lets be real here there is bugger all risk for the pk when he sneaks up on a pvm tamer who has spent an hour working the spawn just to kill him/her at the end.

However, had they had a little thought they would of realised that for all the tamers out there the need for scolls was gonna be huge, and not necessairly 120's even getting 110's you still need to do the same thing. Each pet can use up to 10 or more scrolls and most tamers have at least dozen pets or so.

Sadly because they continuously have the power 'creep' on bosses so that you need tougher and tougher pets and templates to achieve, you can't just say pets dont need them, maybe now they don't but next week they will due to the power creep. Plus why put in a system that was long needed to improve the quality of pets and variety to get rid of GD's online and put a scrolling system in place if hardly anyone can use it due to lack of scrolls?

I have about 15 pets on siege that I currently work. ONLY 2 of them have a 120 wrestle/tactics on. One has a 120 disco/heal, the rest are bascially scrolled with 10's. The biggest problem is you can't get rid of that FLIPPING STUPID PET TRAINING GUMP until you have finished training/scrolling the pet. The so called FIX they put in for that was at total fail as they assume you are gonna get the scrolls you need some time this century to be able to actually 'finish' a pet. The fix 'should of been' to turn the gump on or off until you were done, but again, they did the easy so called fix.

The opportunity missed was being able to add PET scrolls only, ie make lilac coloured scrolls for PETS. Could of been added to the ilshenar spawns, the tokuno, valley of eodon, labyrinth and bedlam spawns, to make them worth doing. They could still have included them in the fel spawn drop so that a fel spawn boss would drop the 12 white power scrolls for players and say 6 lilacs for pets, making the pet ones all 120's in FEL. The non fel spawns could of dropped a random 25 scrolls from 5's to 10's to 15's to 20's.

There was plenty of opportunity to satisfy ALL players, instead they did the easy thing, and just dumped em into the fel spawns.

The problem is that the need for scrolls has now more than quadrupled, in fact it has probable increased by ten times and the exisiting spawns are no way near enough in the number of scrolls that drop to cater for this demand. They should of added pet scrolls only, they should of added them to the non fel spawns in much greater numbers, ie like 25 pet scrolls drop per boss as well as to the fel spawns.

There was room to cater to everyone, instead they continue to force players to part take in a playstyle they don't really want and didn't think that the massive new demand required OTHER ways to obtain them.

Just bad game design that caters to a minority over the majority.
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
And I haven'd been PKed yet.
so what's the big deal then?

you don't have to kiss up to anyone to do spawns yourself. just go out there and do them, preferably in remote t2a areas, preferabley with friends and preferably not during peak hours. you're making this sound so hard when in reality it isn't
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The devs wasted a huge opportunity to improve content for ALL players when they shortsightedly made powerscrolls for pets the same as for players. Sure, you want to gimp out your char, then yes, go to fel for your powerscrolls, it has been that way since day dot and never shall it change.

We get it, risk v reward and all that twaddle, although to be fair, the only 'risk' is to the non pvp style player having to be forced to go and do something they don't particularly wanna do. Such is life. But lets be real here there is bugger all risk for the pk when he sneaks up on a pvm tamer who has spent an hour working the spawn just to kill him/her at the end.

However, had they had a little thought they would of realised that for all the tamers out there the need for scolls was gonna be huge, and not necessairly 120's even getting 110's you still need to do the same thing. Each pet can use up to 10 or more scrolls and most tamers have at least dozen pets or so.

Sadly because they continuously have the power 'creep' on bosses so that you need tougher and tougher pets and templates to achieve, you can't just say pets dont need them, maybe now they don't but next week they will due to the power creep. Plus why put in a system that was long needed to improve the quality of pets and variety to get rid of GD's online and put a scrolling system in place if hardly anyone can use it due to lack of scrolls?

I have about 15 pets on siege that I currently work. ONLY 2 of them have a 120 wrestle/tactics on. One has a 120 disco/heal, the rest are bascially scrolled with 10's. The biggest problem is you can't get rid of that FLIPPING STUPID PET TRAINING GUMP until you have finished training/scrolling the pet. The so called FIX they put in for that was at total fail as they assume you are gonna get the scrolls you need some time this century to be able to actually 'finish' a pet. The fix 'should of been' to turn the gump on or off until you were done, but again, they did the easy so called fix.

The opportunity missed was being able to add PET scrolls only, ie make lilac coloured scrolls for PETS. Could of been added to the ilshenar spawns, the tokuno, valley of eodon, labyrinth and bedlam spawns, to make them worth doing. They could still have included them in the fel spawn drop so that a fel spawn boss would drop the 12 white power scrolls for players and say 6 lilacs for pets, making the pet ones all 120's in FEL. The non fel spawns could of dropped a random 25 scrolls from 5's to 10's to 15's to 20's.

There was plenty of opportunity to satisfy ALL players, instead they did the easy thing, and just dumped em into the fel spawns.

The problem is that the need for scrolls has now more than quadrupled, in fact it has probable increased by ten times and the exisiting spawns are no way near enough in the number of scrolls that drop to cater for this demand. They should of added pet scrolls only, they should of added them to the non fel spawns in much greater numbers, ie like 25 pet scrolls drop per boss as well as to the fel spawns.

There was room to cater to everyone, instead they continue to force players to part take in a playstyle they don't really want and didn't think that the massive new demand required OTHER ways to obtain them.

Just bad game design that caters to a minority over the majority.

really Coco??? You play mostly during times when noone is around on Siege. You could even go and do spawns in despise. I even showed you templates to do that and none of them use expensive suits, so even if you should get raided and looted one day you're really not loosing much. Why not just do that?
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
*sigh* Here we go again.

The PKers will tell you : But you DONT NEED PS to have a decent pet, and new players DONT NEED 120 PS for their toons, and they call PK as PVP, and give all sorts of excuses to continue the status quo:
--It has been like this for years. Why change it now?
--PK is an integral part of UO and has been for years, and cannot be changed.
--Why don't you learn PK/PvP yourselves?
--PS is the ONLY reason to go to Fel, and its the ONLY content in Fel going after.
--If the way that this is happening changes they will QUIT UO (OMG what a loss!).
--That PKers/PVPers constitute a LARGE portion of the UO player-base, and they have a lot of say-so in the game.
--Other similar Bull**it, all perverted truths that fit the needs of only few unsavory players. And of course all these disregard the downgrade of the PS that are now used on PETS, mostly and not players toons. And the fact that the prices are still high, a year later after the revamp.
In order:
1) For pvm, you need ZERO 120's, unless you're a dexer or tamer. For a dexer, the scrolls (Swords & Macing) are fairly cheap, since pets can't use them. Taming & Lore have gone up a bit, but not so much that their prices are ridiculous.
2) If it was going to be changed, it would have happened sometime in the past 16 years. That it hasn't should speak volumes.
3) It has been, whether you realize it or not. As has afk scripting. Where do you think all the resources, gear, and whatever else is floating around comes from? Do you really think the pvm'ers are doing it? Because they aren't.
4) It's 2018, not 2002-2005 (I know it happened after, but I didn't play/spawn from 2005-2014, outside of taking advantage of Return to Britannia.) You can do several spawns without seeing anyone. You don't HAVE to learn how to pvp, since chances of seeing someone (unless you're doing a high-traffic dungeon spawn) are pretty low.
5) Only Fel content worth going after? You don't say. Fel may have most of the old ML Peerless, but the loot sucks no matter where you kill them. Taking that into consideration, why not just do them in Tram? In terms of pvm content, Trammel's had everything worth doing for well over a decade.
6) We're not going to quit over powerscrolls. What we're going to quit over (and actually do so) is the devs focusing purely on the Trammel ruleset - pvp'ers are paying customers too, but we've been neglected for over 16 years.
7) Literally nobody is saying this. Not even the pvp'ers. But the fact remains that WE were the ones doing the farming of the endgame content, especially Shadowguard. Where do you think all the gear being sold today came from? Do you really think the pvm'ers playing this game did it? They didn't. And never did.
8) Would you like to tell the class WHY prices are so high? Could it be because nobody is actually DOING Champ Spawns? If you want scroll prices to decrease, stop complaining on the forums, find some easy t2a spawns (in terms of geography), and go get them for yourself. If you want the templates needed to make the spawns efficient, I'll be more than happy to provide them.
 

MissEcho

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
really Coco??? You play mostly during times when noone is around on Siege. You could even go and do spawns in despise. I even showed you templates to do that and none of them use expensive suits, so even if you should get raided and looted one day you're really not loosing much. Why not just do that?
I do, doesnt mean what I do is what other people should do. In fact rolled despise 4 times with alliance yesterday and once alone yesterday and again today in the wee hours. I play siege Max, and dont care about losing a suit that I can replace 50 times over. My post was more aimed at prodo.

On prodo shards where there is a much higher % of NON pvp chars they missed an opportunity to improve the gameplay of ALL players. Putting pet scrolls on the non fel spawns on SIEGE would have no difference to the risk v reward for siege players. I can get raided and killed just as much on a spawn in ilsh as in fel.

My post was re the lack of thought for the HUGE percentage increase in how many scrolls were gonna be needed, and the fact that on prodo shards where eg atlantic there are tons more players, the pk/pvp guilds basically have been handed a license to print money with the small amount of spawns and scrolls that drop per spawn. Assuming there is a protector, there are 12 scrolls maxiumum gonna drop, of those perhaps ONE will be a useful 120 for a pet, most times not even that. For non pvp characters on that shard the odds of getting anywhere near the amount of scrolls needed to scroll out one pet is slim, as for each tamer needing 5-10 scrolls per pet well they gonna be waiting forever, and then some players just do NOT wanna go to fel and work for an hour only to have someone come kill em to rip off whatever they do get. To each their own. Players shouldn't be forced to non concentual pvp just to be able to avail themselves of game content. Especially as they pretty much nerfed pets for pvp so the class isn't really aimed at that aspect of the game. Not saying you can't pvp as a tamer but there are a LOT of better choices you would have to agree.

They could of made all pet scrolls in fel 120's and then added pet scrolls to the non fel spawns with a 5 -10% chance of a 120 and the rest 5, 10, 15's that would of satisfied a hell of a lot more players and not only that given the non fel spawns a real boost for content. There is so much content in UO that doesn't get used as it is just not worth the effort due to lack of reward.

If they had done that then those tamers seriously wanting high end PET scrolls would roll the fel spawns for pet scrolls, the pvp community and pk'ers would also still make a buck off selling 120 pet scrolls, it wouldn't affect the exisiting power scroll market as they would still only be used for players. It would of been a much fairer and iclusive way of introducing power scrolls for pets.

And just for example, on the 6 spawns I ran in the last two day, 4 where I got 1-2 scrolls, and 2 where I got all 12, so roughly 31 scrolls, only a 110 disco, 115 disco and a 10 focus 10 resist were even suitable for pets, the rest were swords, fencing, tame, peace, provo, ninja, stealing, mystic, mage etc etc and NOT A SINGLE 120 scroll in those drops for me. Pretty disappointing :(. On those numbers I surely wouldn't be wanting to run a tamer on prodo.

If nothing else, if the devs were so intent on limiting the drop to the few pk guilds on prodo shards, then they should of at least upped the actual NUMBER of scrolls dropping at spawns, from 12 to at least 24 (under pro) due to the massive increase in demand.
 
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Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
while I couldn't care less what happens to prodo I do feel for the fel population there.

anyways: you are living proof that spawns can be done even when playing with a crappy Australian connection on a shard without insurance. Why would it be impossible for some trammel-tamer then to do the same?

You say the drop rate for 120s is too low. Thank god we have scroll binders and you know what's even better? There is a guaranteed gold drop at the end of a spawn. While getting the scrolls you need after doing lots of spawns, you also get rich while doing so, so in the end you'll be able to afford buying the 120 scrolls you didn't get yourself. For that people would actually have to pick up the gold though, which I hear is unpopular on prodo...
And even if you were still absolutely adamant about not setting foot in felucca, why not simply farm the 90% PvM content that is located in trammel and sell those high end items to buy scrolls? This would be a 100% safe way of farming and there are lots of items that sell rather well. But guess what, with their circular logic people then complain about inflated scroll prices that they are not willing to pay. Or they complain about Shadowguard being too hard these days because they're unwilling to adapt their templates.
 

ShriNayne

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Awards
5
Pet specific power scrolls would have made logical sense, that's why we don't have them, as always they didn't think it through. Not only that, when Messana suggested making them shard bound I guess everyone with a shard shield on Atlantic spammed her with e-mails to make her back down, so the problem was then twice as bad, even if smaller shards do the champ spawns all the scrolls seem to end up on Atlantic anyway. I'm lucky in that I pretty much bought all the scrolls I needed before the pet revamp and I no longer play a tamer at all. On Europa at the bank meet we all hear tamers regularly saying how hard it is to find scrolls now. Why does it always seem that the worst elements of UO are the ones most listened to? :(
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...and why don't said tamers simply go out and hunt for the scrolls themselves instead of complaining how hard it is to find them?
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I mean seriously even if their own shard's spawns are all camped with evil PKs it should be easy for them to go to say a dead American shard and farm scrolls there and then transfer them back to Europa.
 

Stinky Pete

Seasoned Veteran
Governor
Supporter
Do what I do. Make a thief and steal scrolls. It's really not that hard and it sounds like it might do you some good. Playing as a thief will quickly teach you to embrace death. PM me if you need help. @celticus
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think it was a fairly clever move from the DEVS to not make pet specific scrolls. Now the trammel elite have a chance to buy scrolls from the fel people, who in return will buy stuff from the trammel guys..
 

JohnnyO

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What about keeping it in Fel but make scrolls drop on a point system?
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What about keeping it in Fel but make scrolls drop on a point system?
Isn't that how Doom is supposed to work? I can tell you from experience that it's a crap system - if it IS, in fact, point-based, I've gotten more than enough in all of the runs I've done to get everything out of there. But that is, sadly, not the case. If it were applied to champ spawns, how would it even work? Do a bunch of spawns, get some lousy 110's? No thank you.

Maybe instead of trying to change one of the few non-broken systems in this game (champ spawns), people should stop whining about them and go do them.
 

JohnnyO

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Isn't that how Doom is supposed to work? I can tell you from experience that it's a crap system - if it IS, in fact, point-based, I've gotten more than enough in all of the runs I've done to get everything out of there. But that is, sadly, not the case. If it were applied to champ spawns, how would it even work? Do a bunch of spawns, get some lousy 110's? No thank you.

Maybe instead of trying to change one of the few non-broken systems in this game (champ spawns), people should stop whining about them and go do them.
The harder the mob the more points you get, eventually you get a ps drop. Champ still has special drops. It keeps it in Fel but you're working towards something rather than working the spawn getting raided and ending up with nothing. I don't know it was just a thought.
 

celticus

Babbling Loonie
Do what I do. Make a thief and steal scrolls. It's really not that hard and it sounds like it might do you some good. Playing as a thief will quickly teach you to embrace death. PM me if you need help. @celticus
Thank you kindly for the suggestion Pete. A little while back I just walked into someone's home, and found an unlocked box, opened it, and cleaned it out : EM drops, Library rewards, and all probably worth then many millions UO gold. Then came back next day and told the person the box was unsecured. Lied to her and said I just wanted to "protect" her items and took to safe guard them. Returned every item to the tea. I was too embarassed to tell her that I was trying to be a thief, and failed miserably due to my "care bear" conscience that was punishing me unless I returned her hard earned items! I did not know this person, and she seemed to be very nice and grateful for getting her stuff back..she did not even know they were missing! My first and last attempt at stealing. And it was a motherload, from a very rich looking home..
I know its only a video game. But we have one conscience, one honor and without these what are we?
I guess I cant do that. I think I would rather get PK'd trying spawns etc, but it would be nice for me to make time from my busy RL and train my fighting skills. But its not about me or other "care bears" cursed with a game conscience like this.
Its like Ms Echo put her absolutely accurate points open to the view. It about the prodo shards, and content accessibility to other players, hundreds of them, for their pets and newbie chars maybe. I do think that going to RMT sites is not acceptable by the vast majority of people also, and perhaps is the worst type of cheating. But that's a personal perception, and may not be correct as such.
Surely Max, Dr Crossack, and others are the nicest people in the game. I know its about mindset.
But the next level in the evolution of this game needs to take place to complement the "pet revamp".
 
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Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I was trying to be a thief, and failed miserably due to my "care bear" conscience that was punishing me unless I returned her hard earned items! [...] I know its only a video game. But we have one conscience, one honor and without these what are we? I guess I cant do that.
according to your assessment though you would be stealing from evil PKs and/or RMT people when stealing from someone who does a spawn and gets to finish it, so no need to have a guilty conscience...

it's like I said above: whatever solution to your problem has been presented, you (and those who think alike) simply say "nay" or "Iwon't do that" and keep complaining, thus returning to the circular logic that your point is the only valid and correct one.
 

Stinky Pete

Seasoned Veteran
Governor
Supporter
according to your assessment though you would be stealing from evil PKs and/or RMT people when stealing from someone who does a spawn and gets to finish it, so no need to have a guilty conscience...

it's like I said above: whatever solution to your problem has been presented, you (and those who think alike) simply say "nay" or "Iwon't do that" and keep complaining, thus returning to the circular logic that your point is the only valid and correct one.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Other than: I couldn't give a flying pancake about your "care-bear conscience." Just get the scrolls and stop whining about it. You and everyone else.
 
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celticus

Babbling Loonie
according to your assessment though you would be stealing from evil PKs and/or RMT people when stealing from someone who does a spawn and gets to finish it, so no need to have a guilty conscience...

it's like I said above: whatever solution to your problem has been presented, you (and those who think alike) simply say "nay" or "Iwon't do that" and keep complaining, thus returning to the circular logic that your point is the only valid and correct one.
No Max I never said that..Stealing from anyone is stealing, esp. if you are successful doing so. Then the problem is you have to deal with your conscience whatever you got left of it. Like myself on that theft/protection. That theft was probably massive value possibly hundreds of millions worth of EM event items, library stuff, etc. But t hen there was the thought of what that victim went through, the hours of grinding, time, possibly years and massive effort to accumulate that motherload of goods. There was a concience there that did not allow this to happen, and the motherload of goods was returned next day, and I felt much better. I guess not all of us can be thieves. Its basically not in some people's constitution.

Also:

The people trying to grind spawns are not PKs or evil, and PKs are not necessarily evil, even when they PK a lamb. Just a little misguided maybe?
In reality most spawn grinders are non-PK ers, they get PKed in the process of gringing I guess. Which I get it it has been part of this video game.

Also:
There is a sharp distinction in the true sense of the word : PK vs PVP. Semantics..right?

Anyways I appreciate all your comments, and I guess I will have to meet you at the spawns sometime..
I think we all said enough about this, in the recent past and present.
Probably best to close this thread, as there is no point going on at all.
 

Luvmylace

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Isn't it tabout ime for a fix to the PKing at Fel spawns for the PS for pets and new characters?
Why is it still there? Does the pet revamp count for anything with PS?
Why not change it so that at least in certain Fel - PS spawns there can be no PK?
How can players get their PS otherwise?
The way it is, the PK's control these spawns, and still have major impact on the PS market.
Its not enough to grind the spawn, you also have to sustain being PKed? What sense does this make?
Or make it so the PS drop in some non-PK areas?
PS for pets is not end game stuff, and it is needed also for new players.
Make it so that during the spawn and in the spawn area there can be no PK, at least in some of the Fel champs. Do the PKing outside of the champ spawns?
it is a little more than one year after the pet revamp, and the same old problem..lol.

@Kyronix, @Bleaque, @mesana any thoughts?
same old whine on a new day. time to find anew game
 

Spartan

Lore Keeper
same old whine on a new day. time to find anew game
Lemme see if I have this right: PVM folks are supposed to understand the thought process and drives of PvP persons - especially those who PK. BUT PVP/PK persons don't have to at least acknowledge the attitudes and drives of PVE people?

Do I have that about right? Or are you simply singling celticus out for your remark?

And back in 2000 or so, one of the working definitions we had during the issue of the pre-Tram sheep-culling: While PKs are PVPers, not all PVPers are PKs. That has stuck with me and I always give the benefit of the doubt when meeting a new person in Fel (red or not).
 

Stinky Pete

Seasoned Veteran
Governor
Supporter
Trust me. None of the folks that I steal from will cry about a missing scroll. If anything they are more excited about killing defenseless ol' me to get it back than receiving the scroll as loot. Plus, I usually only get away with one scroll per spawn, maybe 2 if I'm lucky. I just get to pick which ones are worth my effort. On Atlantic at least, it's always the same guys that I'm ripping off and none of them are going to whine about it. Sometimes I wish they would. :( But I am evil and you are not.
 
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