Shouldn't DESIGN changes also take care of their leftovers ??

[Stupid Miner]

1. This one is probably the most game affecting - forget the Daimyo. I took the Gloves of the Pugilist, which had Dex +8, Wrestling +10, 15% Damage Increase, and 18 Physical (that's what), and added +8 Stamina Increase. This maxes the gloves give an artifact-worthy +16 total Stamina (factoring in the 8 from the Dex), to go with the DI. But the wearer better be able to compensate for the sucky resists.

Ah, they're very useful for a suit that can accommodate them, but storm grips, with decent resists, 25% DI and +8 Int (unless already at 125 dex cap, you can switch stats around with no problem) are more generally useful. Faction storm grips with +10 HCI are typically much better.

2. I took the Alchemist's Bauble (already "The Poor Man's Orny"), and altered the magery & poison resist on it, and added one more property. For a caster that goes into a lot of combat, this might be FC 1, some LMC, SDI, Eval, etc. Me, I added the one resist my Imbuer was weak in, to give him a better shot at surviving while out trying to get access to the Queen's forge.

Such a shame it has poison resist, else it'd pair perfectly with an Ecru Citrine ring to reach the 80% EP cap for a GM alchemist.

3. The lowly Arms of Tactical Excellence. Has +12 Tactics (effectively nerfed by the requirement for real tactics for specials), +5 dex, and 20 extra resists scattered in 3 categories (+5 fire & poison, +10 cold). Are now actually useful in a suit for someone using the Tactics for extra damage, by adding 20 more resists (puts it just shy of 450), either by taking fire & poison up to max, or taking them to a little less, and raising cold as well. 35 resists=bad; 55 resists=workable into a suit.

Ah yes, this is one of the few useful imbue-ables as well. Problem is, you need 90 real skill to use secondary special moves. Best way to use this item, for someone whose template has GM or less tactics would be to lower Tactics to 90 to take full advantage of the skill boost. Granted this method only frees up 10 skill points instead of 12, but good Artifact sleeves are very rare.

4. Bow of the Juka King: How many of you have actually seen people using these? Me neither. Change the slayer type, change the hit spell, add in 5 more DI. Now, it's a competent entry-level PvM bow, until you can get the chance to get a superior crafted one.

True, but this isn't actually any better than imbuing a plain bow.

5. The Melisande's Corroded Hatchet. I'm particularly proud of this one. Changed the -50% DI to positive 45%. I think I also was able to raise the SSI.

Heh, a collector's piece to be sure

 

[MalagAste]

It depends on the artifact.

Imbuing has limits by design.

First. intensities on a single mod cannot exceed certain limits and, most importantly, not all mods can be imbued on all pieces. Some pieces are barred from being able to host certain mods.

Now, being able to imbue artifacts which bypass imbuing limits so as to make them more matching to one's own needs for a particular template, can mean maximizing certain modifiers whch can boost one's own template offensive or defensive capabilities thus, effectively, providing an unbalancing edge in combat.

Allowing some of these "leftovers" to stay in the game after the change will potentially allow some players, over others, to have items which can better boost their combat abilities which other players will not have nor be able to make.

That is why several think that these imbued artifacts left over from the design change should not be left unaddressed.

You can NOT bypass imbuing limits even on arti's... rolleyes

 

[Konge]

I think we need to learn something about Popps posts. I see it in every thread he does. He honestly doesn't know what he's talking about, he's just trying to force the same old argument down your throat by using whatever is relevant at the time.

No marty/Arty I can think of is overpowered by imbuing, just made usable.

No one ever replied to my previous post, I am sad.

 

[Stupid Miner]

No one ever replied to my previous post, I am sad.

Is what you get for making a well-stated reasonable and insightful post!

 

[Konge]

Is what you get for making a well-stated reasonable and insightful post!

I know, I was actually proud of that post! After what you said I realized that that might be how the system worked so i chipped in my two cents only to have it ignored with no witty counter argument!

 

[popps]

You can NOT bypass imbuing limits even on arti's... rolleyes

Some artifacts, are born or, better said, design created, with imbuing limits bypassed by default....

That is, they either have a mod at an intensity higher than imbuing can ever reach or, they sport a modifier which a player could never imbue on that given slot piece....

Before imbuing of artifacts, players though had to take the extremely good mod on an artifact along with other mods present in the artifact which were less usefull to them. Sometimes, flat out useless......

What imbuing of artifacts brought in, was the ability to change all of the bad mods while keeping the exceptionally good mods.

Infact, many imbuers what they did was look out for artifacts with exceptionally good mods (good in the sense that they were beyond imbuable limits) and just reshuffle the other mods to create an imbued artifact way more usefull and advantageous than what the artifact previously was.....

Result ?

A piece having exceptionally good mods, above intensity (for that given mod) or sporting a mod not available for that given slot piece AND, on top of it, be able to change/add modifiers which well matched with that given template.

This I meant by bypassing imbuing limits.

 

[popps]

No marty/Arty I can think of is overpowered by imbuing, just made usable.

Excuse me ?

Do I understand then that the Designers, the people who know the game the best since they know all about its inner workings, designed artifacts NOT usefull for players and only thanking to the imbuing of artifacts these "designers' made useless artifacts" were made usefull ??

Excuse me ?

Ain't it perhaps more that the artifacts had been designed like they were, with good AND bad mods to bow to balancing issues which imbuing SCREWED UP by allowing players to reshuffle the bad mods into usefull ones ?

This is, as I think, why we are getting the design change to no longer be able to imbue artifacts.

And this is also why I think that the left overs, the already imbued artifacts existing in the game, should be reverted and addressed with, one way or the other...

 

[Konge]

Excuse me ?

Do I understand then that the Designers, the people who know the game the best since they know all about its inner workings, designed artifacts NOT usefull for players and only thanking to the imbuing of artifacts these "designers' made useless artifacts" were made usefull ??

Apparently you just started the game today, let me fill you in.

Artifacts/Marties were added at different times, a lot of them were added multiple years ago. Each expansion added stronger artifacts. This lead to some artifacts becoming useless. At the time, they were useful, but now, there are much better items to replace them.

Use common sense, this is obvious from the items they're adding in pub 65, look them up and compare them to any Ilsh marty.

Excuse me ?

Ain't it perhaps more that the artifacts had been designed like they were, with good AND bad mods to bow to balancing issues which imbuing SCREWED UP by allowing players to reshuffle the bad mods into usefull ones ?

This is, as I think, why we are getting the design change to no longer be able to imbue artifacts.

And this is also why I think that the left overs, the already imbued artifacts existing in the game, should be reverted and addressed with, one way or the other...

Yes, they were balanced, AT THE TIME.

Things change, the game gets more powerful items.

Now they're generally worthless.

Being able to imbue them allowed you to increase there power, and, for older players, allowed the older artifacts to be useful, to have some merit.

Honestly, if you have no idea what you're talking about, please don't try.

 

[MalagAste]

Some artifacts, are born or, better said, design created, with imbuing limits bypassed by default....

That is, they either have a mod at an intensity higher than imbuing can ever reach or, they sport a modifier which a player could never imbue on that given slot piece....

Before imbuing of artifacts, players though had to take the extremely good mod on an artifact along with other mods present in the artifact which were less usefull to them. Sometimes, flat out useless......

What imbuing of artifacts brought in, was the ability to change all of the bad mods while keeping the exceptionally good mods.

Infact, many imbuers what they did was look out for artifacts with exceptionally good mods (good in the sense that they were beyond imbuable limits) and just reshuffle the other mods to create an imbued artifact way more usefull and advantageous than what the artifact previously was.....

Result ?

A piece having exceptionally good mods, above intensity (for that given mod) or sporting a mod not available for that given slot piece AND, on top of it, be able to change/add modifiers which well matched with that given template.

This I meant by bypassing imbuing limits.

This is still limited to a set "weight" on the items... you can't over imbue something... It's still limited. Not only that but EVERYONE can get it and imbue it... or pay to have it imbued... along with the fact that once it IS imbued unlike a "regular" arti... now it can't be powdered ever again and it'll BREAK... making the wearer have to go get another arti and imue it.

So once again I FAIL to see how an arti can be "overpowered" because you can imbue it...

Just because you can get other mods on stuff you can still get if you wear the item unimbued...

So that is a lame argument.

 

[popps]

This is still limited to a set "weight" on the items... you can't over imbue something... It's still limited.

An item can still be overpowering when its total weight is within limits....

How ?

When it allows specific mods to exceed imbuing intensity or, when it allows a piece which normally cannot host a modifier, to have it instead.

Why ?

Because then players with a template which can put that given modifier to good use (whether in offense or defense), can push it over the limit normally attainable (since they have a piece which normally cannot have that mod that has it AND, they also have that mod on other pieces which normally have it).

 

[Viper09]

You're still lacking on evidence of actual existing "overpowered" artifacts popps...yet you still seem compelled to argue it.

 

[Konge]

An item can still be overpowering when its total weight is within limits....

How ?

When it allows specific mods to exceed imbuing intensity or, when it allows a piece which normally cannot host a modifier, to have it instead.

Why ?

Because then players with a template which can put that given modifier to good use (whether in offense or defense), can push it over the limit normally attainable (since they have a piece which normally cannot have that mod that has it AND, they also have that mod on other pieces which normally have it).

For your questions, read my response to you already above her post, you failed to respond to it, didn't you?

You ignore arguments that void what you've been saying and wait until someone leaves a loop hole for you to say the same thing over again. Respond to my previous post in this thread, or read it, I explain how the marties are underpowered currently.

 

[Konge]

Excuse me ?

Do I understand then that the Designers, the people who know the game the best since they know all about its inner workings, designed artifacts NOT usefull for players and only thanking to the imbuing of artifacts these "designers' made useless artifacts" were made usefull ??

Apparently you just started the game today, let me fill you in.

Artifacts/Marties were added at different times, a lot of them were added multiple years ago. Each expansion added stronger artifacts. This lead to some artifacts becoming useless. At the time, they were useful, but now, there are much better items to replace them.

Use common sense, this is obvious from the items they're adding in pub 65, look them up and compare them to any Ilsh marty.

Excuse me ?

Ain't it perhaps more that the artifacts had been designed like they were, with good AND bad mods to bow to balancing issues which imbuing SCREWED UP by allowing players to reshuffle the bad mods into usefull ones ?

This is, as I think, why we are getting the design change to no longer be able to imbue artifacts.

And this is also why I think that the left overs, the already imbued artifacts existing in the game, should be reverted and addressed with, one way or the other...

Yes, they were balanced, AT THE TIME.

Things change, the game gets more powerful items.

Now they're generally worthless.

Being able to imbue them allowed you to increase there power, and, for older players, allowed the older artifacts to be useful, to have some merit.

Honestly, if you have no idea what you're talking about, please don't try.

There you go, I even brought it to the latest post for you.

 

[MalagAste]

There you go, I even brought it to the latest post for you.

Exactly.... imbuing an artifact. well any fool can do it so how is that overpowering???

If you wanted that same set up you could have it...

Your argument is silly.

 

[Kiminality]

Doesn't the planesword allow you to effectively go over the maximum weight?
I thought it had properties that didn't could towards it...

 

[Konge]

Doesn't the planesword allow you to effectively go over the maximum weight?
I thought it had properties that didn't could towards it...

That's one case and it's not really an arty, more of an event specific item, like the conjurors garb, ect.