Shame Fel side..... im not seeing a difference

[Poo]

spent a couple hours today on Origin in Shame fel side.

didn't see any marked increase in the loots numbers.
infact, i almost think the stuff was worse then the tram side stuff.

someone in the Dev department may wanna look at the code on that.

and not one other person the whole time i was there.

now THAT surprised me!

 

[Ricsreturn]

I would think it would take a lot longer to test then a couple hours to judge drop rate and quality of items even longer to compare the facets. It's only been a couple weeks.

I'm no coding expert or anything but I recall an increase in loot awhile back and a dev mention that at first the drop rates may seem high just after the pub being released but after a few days maybe weeks the drop rate would balance out not sure if this is how things still work or not but I would take more time before I'd claim no difference.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Should be very obvious. Completely different loot tables.
Like so.......
TC1 loot

 

[Poo]

the Devs where saying that the fel side would be higher, risk vs reward.

so i thought after 3 nights of tram side id try fel.

spent a good solid afternoon in there farming away.

and like i said, the loot was definitely not as good as the the tram side loot was for the same critters.

and thats level 5 with a big luck suit on too boot.

 

[A Thought Elemental]

Pure speculation and just throwing this out - - could have no merit at all - - Mebbe they don't want to do the fel/tram thing this time =p. I wouldn't blame them if it were so. If they're trying to make a genuine PVE thing, that's how it would be.

Genuine risk isn't there these days anyway. Not with item insurance being the way it is. (excepting any cursed items which drop which well ... one can't take cursed items so seriously anyway).

I feel like the real take on fel/tram loot bump for something as big as the shame overhaul would be more like it was when that one event was going on .. where the artifacts started dropping for the first time in the classic dungeons, I forget what the event was called. The people who had fel guilds went to the fel dungeons, and well, that was that. Risk of what, being PKd with insured items, yeahhhh. Expecting super-big, super-phat rewards (such as a big bump to what I'm seeing coming out of ppl's Origin/TC screenshots) for THAT is kinda... jokelike.

Just saying. No facts here to back it up.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I'd do 3-4 times in each, collect loot (not gold) till I got heavy, then unravel at Queen's and compare. Not very scientific, but it'd work for me

 

[CatAClism]

Pure speculation and just throwing this out - - could have no merit at all - - Mebbe they don't want to do the fel/tram thing this time =p. I wouldn't blame them if it were so. If they're trying to make a genuine PVE thing, that's how it would be.

Genuine risk isn't there these days anyway. Not with item insurance being the way it is. (excepting any cursed items which drop which well ... one can't take cursed items so seriously anyway).

I feel like the real take on fel/tram loot bump for something as big as the shame overhaul would be more like it was when that one event was going on .. where the artifacts started dropping for the first time in the classic dungeons, I forget what the event was called. The people who had fel guilds went to the fel dungeons, and well, that was that. Risk of what, being PKd with insured items, yeahhhh. Expecting super-big, super-phat rewards (such as a big bump to what I'm seeing coming out of ppl's Origin/TC screenshots) for THAT is kinda... jokelike.

Just saying. No facts here to back it up.

http://vboards.stratics.com/2036320-post3.html

That enough *fact* for ya?

Fel is supposed to have better items, end of story.

 

[Tina Small]

I'd do 3-4 times in each, collect loot (not gold) till I got heavy, then unravel at Queen's and compare. Not very scientific, but it'd work for me

That's exactly what Poo was doing....

 

[Xalan Dementia]

where you using a Luck suit? fel has higher benefit to luck in new shame.
and its hard to say how big a difference the "Slightly higher item property budget" would cause.

Judging by how big the Mod spectrum is on these new items it might be tough to really see how different fel and tram loots are.

 

[Uvtha]

where you using a Luck suit? fel has higher benefit to luck in new shame.
and its hard to say how big a difference the "Slightly higher item property budget" would cause.

Judging by how big the Mod spectrum is on these new items it might be tough to really see how different fel and tram loots are.

I think there is also the issue that some items with a higher item budget seem to be inferior to some with smaller budgets. That was my experience on shard of the dead anyway.

Some times you find a "ledgendary artifact" ring with like 10 properties all at half, then youd find a "major magic item" with 4 properties at 200%, etc..

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Let us hope that they realized this was a bad idea and changed their collective minds.

If they kept the loot tables the same, folks will still do better in Felucca, because of the ability to control the territory and, when no one is around to control the territory, there'll be less competition overall.

They can accomplish their goal of favoring Felucca without actually having different loot systems or loot tables or what have you.

-Galen's player

 

[Tor the Invincible]

and not one other person the whole time i was there.

Failed attempt to lure people into Fel with PVM stuff #8752.

 

[HD2300]

This is like saying there is a hi-res art terrain update, and updating 10 graphic terrain tiles out of 1000. Mission Accomplished.

 

[Xalan Dementia]

This is like saying there is a hi-res art terrain update, and updating 10 graphic terrain tiles out of 1000. Mission Accomplished.

well your draggin thread off topic since the hi res update was just the start, they didnt say it would all happen in one publish, start small to make sure it works right then they can move on to more.

They also didnt announce the fel difference in loot, messana answered a question in another thread, she was then corrected by phoenix to show that fel had a minuscule difference to its loot formula.

 

[Poo]

well your draggin thread off topic since the hi res update was just the start, they didnt say it would all happen in one publish, start small to make sure it works right then they can move on to more.

They also didnt announce the fel difference in loot, messana answered a question in another thread, she was then corrected by phoenix to show that fel had a minuscule difference to its loot formula.

The drop rates are the same. The difference with Felucca Shame is that items will have a slightly higher item property budget, and luck checks done for loot generation are given a significant bonus.

thats straight from the dev's

that dosnt say minuscule, that says slightly higher.
what im saying is after burning up bag after bag of ALL the loot from the same critters just on different facets the tram side IS PAYING OUT HIGHER.

thats not a minuscule increase in loot.
thats a decrease in loot.

granted there is RNG, but over 3 days and hours of farming the RNG shouldnt be that one sided in the wrong direction.

not saying there isnt good loot in fel with a pimped out luck suit on (and im sitting 2,500 luck) im saying that the tram side is edging out the fel side, and its not suppose to.
they wanted us to let them know if there where problems, im pointing one out.

i am a FIRM believer in risk vs reward.

when i farm in the belly of a fel hole i whole heartily believe we should get paid better, we cant recall in and we cant recall out, we have to put in the time and effort to get all the way in there and we are playing without a safety line.
and when i come in their on my red to collect the fel tax, i firmly believe that if i can get you and your greater dragon down that i should be rewarded with all the sweet loot.

i just wanna see the reward put into full effect.

 

[Poo]

and when i come in their on my red to collect the fel tax, i firmly believe that if i can get you and your greater dragon down that i should be rewarded with all the sweet loot.

Gawd,

if there was ever a reason to bring back the bounty system!!!

 

[A Thought Elemental]

Let us hope that they realized this was a bad idea and changed their collective minds.

If they kept the loot tables the same, folks will still do better in Felucca, because of the ability to control the territory and, when no one is around to control the territory, there'll be less competition overall.

They can accomplish their goal of favoring Felucca without actually having different loot systems or loot tables or what have you.

-Galen's player

This.

i am a FIRM believer in risk vs reward.

i just wanna see the reward put into full effect.

Except that the risk is next to nothing. You can't even lose the good items that you loot because you insure them right away (who cares about cursed stuff). If you couldn't defend yourself succesfully, you'd lose maybe 5k gold in insurance money and some bandages and pet food and your trap box (assuming you're carrying one) and be inconvenienced by a PK. ..... no MEANINGFUL risk there sorry.

This is presuming you're not expecting to walk into fel to farm items for unraveling whilst being unable to PVP...

i firmly believe that if i can get you and your greater dragon down

Uh. If you die, log out, then log back in. It'll auto stable the pet.

 

[Merion]

thats straight from the dev's

that dosnt say minuscule, that says slightly higher.
what im saying is after burning up bag after bag of ALL the loot from the same critters just on different facets the tram side IS PAYING OUT HIGHER.

thats not a minuscule increase in loot.
thats a decrease in loot.

granted there is RNG, but over 3 days and hours of farming the RNG shouldnt be that one sided in the wrong direction.

not saying there isnt good loot in fel with a pimped out luck suit on (and im sitting 2,500 luck) im saying that the tram side is edging out the fel side, and its not suppose to.
they wanted us to let them know if there where problems, im pointing one out.

i am a FIRM believer in risk vs reward.

when i farm in the belly of a fel hole i whole heartily believe we should get paid better, we cant recall in and we cant recall out, we have to put in the time and effort to get all the way in there and we are playing without a safety line.
and when i come in their on my red to collect the fel tax, i firmly believe that if i can get you and your greater dragon down that i should be rewarded with all the sweet loot.

i just wanna see the reward put into full effect.

this!

 

[Poo]

Except that the risk is next to nothing. You can't even lose the good items that you loot because you insure them right away (who cares about cursed stuff). If you couldn't defend yourself succesfully, you'd lose maybe 5k gold in insurance money and some bandages and pet food and your trap box (assuming you're carrying one) and be inconvenienced by a PK. ..... no MEANINGFUL risk there sorry.

so, 5 minutes to get into the basement of shame, cause ya have to kill some wall trolls to pass and such.
then 10 minutes per mob in level 5.
so lets say ya kill 8 or 10.
so we have now invested over 2 hours in shame.
you now have a nice fat bag of loot.

so either you insured everything, and with their high % that will put the insurance nice and high, plus what you already have insured (suit and such).
OR
you didn't insure anything.

either way, thats a loss.
2 hours of farming and either all your loot or all that insurance.

i for one do not consider my TIME and my hard earned loot to be NOTHING.

its all ones perspective i guess.

 

[A Thought Elemental]

2 hours of farming and either all your loot or all that insurance.

My own insurance only costs me like about 6k right now.

If you're only insuring stuff you mean to keep,surely you wouldn't go above 15k insurance?

15k is nothing. Succubus in Fan Dancer Dojo and a Cu Sidhe, I can make that in no time.

And this is all under the presumption that you're either being killed by a group or, one PK shows up and you don't bother to fight or you can't win the fight for whatever reason.

If you aren't willing to PVP to some degree, Fel is kinda not the right place to be. It's really just like that. Going to Fel but meaning to roll over and die instead of PVP when attacked doesn't make sense. Ppl should go where the ruleset works for them, methinks...

 

[Tina Small]

If you aren't willing to PVP to some degree, Fel is kinda not the right place to be. It's really just like that. Going to Fel but meaning to roll over and die instead of PVP when attacked doesn't make sense. Ppl should go where the ruleset works for them, methinks...

I'm getting a good chuckle out of the thought of Poo not being willing to PvP.

 

[Picus at the office]

If you aren't willing to PVP to some degree, Fel is kinda not the right place to be. It's really just like that. Going to Fel but meaning to roll over and die instead of PVP when attacked doesn't make sense. Ppl should go where the ruleset works for them, methinks...

While I believe that Poo can fight the vast majority of tram based players that I have ran into die in such a sad fashion that for a fleeting moment I almost feel guilty about looting the 6 bandages and one stam pot they always seem to have(really why bother coming if you plan on dieing?). The other day I was part of a sweet raid out at ice 3(us) vs 6(them) and I was shocked by the amount of bodies that we left after they ressed and came back many, many times. Granted they had heart but not the skill that you would think anyone should have and I know these players have been around for 5+ years. Best part was the looting of a sash from a corpse, thanks guys

 

[Poo]

My own insurance only costs me like about 6k right now.

If you're only insuring stuff you mean to keep,surely you wouldn't go above 15k insurance?

15k is nothing. Succubus in Fan Dancer Dojo and a Cu Sidhe, I can make that in no time.

And this is all under the presumption that you're either being killed by a group or, one PK shows up and you don't bother to fight or you can't win the fight for whatever reason.

If you aren't willing to PVP to some degree, Fel is kinda not the right place to be. It's really just like that. Going to Fel but meaning to roll over and die instead of PVP when attacked doesn't make sense. Ppl should go where the ruleset works for them, methinks...

and we wonder why less and less people are posting anymore.

*sigh*

loot is less in fel, or seems to be, was said it would be higher, THAT is the topic we are discussing here.

why we are now discussing insurance and trammies rolling over in fel is beyond me.

 

[Tor the Invincible]

So it's not even some forlorn belief that anyone new will come to Fel, it's just the existing tiny Fel minority believing they're entitled to welfare for playing there.

I thought you liked it there man.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

loot is less in fel, or seems to be, was said it would be higher, THAT is the topic we are discussing here.

You need to do hundreds of hours of treasure farming (and record the results properly) on both facets before you can draw a proper conclusion.

 

[red sky]

and we wonder why less and less people are posting anymore.

*sigh*

loot is less in fel, or seems to be, was said it would be higher, THAT is the topic we are discussing here.

why we are now discussing insurance and trammies rolling over in fel is beyond me.

Are you using a pet to kill the mobs or a direct damage character? Just curious. I'll compare my loot later today.

 

[Poo]

for the first couple days to test out the water i was using a pet.

i went in with a mage yesterday and didnt like it, seemed to take forever.

im gonna go give the bard a try and then a melee.

 

[Poo]

You need to do hundreds of hours of treasure farming (and record the results properly) on both facets before you can draw a proper conclusion.

true.

or i can do it for a couple hours and pancake about it and have a dev just double check the code.

seems the way im doing it may be faster.

 

[Poo]

So it's not even some forlorn belief that anyone new will come to Fel, it's just the existing tiny Fel minority believing they're entitled to welfare for playing there.

I thought you liked it there man.

oh i do

i will be doing it in fel on my home shard.
i dont play well with others and i dont like to take turns, id much rather fight someone and either win and take over the spawn or loose and get chased off.

im just brining this up cause i like good loot.
they (the Devs) are the ones that said it would be higher in fel.
im just making sure it is.

(its like getting a raise at work for doing the same thing you've always done, you dont really deserve it, but hell if they wanna increase your wage ill take it, now im just making sure they DID give me that 3%)

 

[Elicia]

So instead of having to do this the hard way, by dealing with other players, and finding ways to work cooperatively, or dealing with players you do not like with non-violent means, you choose to deal with your issue with pixel violence.
A whole lot harder when your in a trammel rule set and have to find other ways to resolve differences. *hand's Poo his "easy mode" button*
So instead of having to work the spawn, which you also want all to yourself (mine mine mine) you want the loot to be a faster drop rate. *hand's Poo his "easy mode" button*

if you want the game to be hard, as a real vet player would, come to Trammel. No "easy mode" double resources, higher drop rates, etc. And you have to deal with other players you do not like in a much more complex way instead of just attacking them, that is really hard for many people, much harder then just attacking anyone you take a dislike to.

Oh, and PvP in Trammel is harder to. Guard Zones do not apply to Guild Wars, so no safe zones, or moon-gate hugging. Also any player who uses hacks is banned from the Guild, so the playing field is level...much more challenging then a Zerg gank.

When your up to being a real Vet, come to Siege......

 

[red sky]

I think the real question is this: Has anyone actually obtained a greater, major, or legendary artifact without cursed on it yet? Please post if you have. My one goal is to see a legendary without curse on it. I doubt I'll ever see a "clean" one.

I was also a bit disappointed with not being able to imbue the beautiful katana I obtained. It was "clean" and had 3 hp regen, 3 stam regen, and 6 mana regen. Unfortunately, those add up to around 500 imbuing points.

 

[Poo]

So instead of having to do this the hard way, by dealing with other players, and finding ways to work cooperatively, or dealing with players you do not like with non-violent means, you choose to deal with your issue with pixel violence.
A whole lot harder when your in a trammel rule set and have to find other ways to resolve differences. *hand's Poo his "easy mode" button*
So instead of having to work the spawn, which you also want all to yourself (mine mine mine) you want the loot to be a faster drop rate. *hand's Poo his "easy mode" button*

if you want the game to be hard, as a real vet player would, come to Trammel. No "easy mode" double resources, higher drop rates, etc. And you have to deal with other players you do not like in a much more complex way instead of just attacking them, that is really hard for many people, much harder then just attacking anyone you take a dislike to.

Oh, and PvP in Trammel is harder to. Guard Zones do not apply to Guild Wars, so no safe zones, or moon-gate hugging. Also any player who uses hacks is banned from the Guild, so the playing field is level...much more challenging then a Zerg gank.

When your up to being a real Vet, come to Siege......

actually i have 5 fully developed toons on siege, and they've been there since day 1.

so good try, but fail.

and come on now, you cant compare pvp on siege to real pvp on production shards, hahaha, thats just laughable!

and whats with this easy button?
have you ever fought your way out of a dungeon with a hour worth of loot?
if you have then you sure wouldnt be plopping out a easy button.

 

[Poo]

I think the real question is this: Has anyone actually obtained a greater, major, or legendary artifact without cursed on it yet? Please post if you have. My one goal is to see a legendary without curse on it. I doubt I'll ever see a "clean" one.

I was also a bit disappointed with not being able to imbue the beautiful katana I obtained. It was "clean" and had 3 hp regen, 3 stam regen, and 6 mana regen. Unfortunately, those add up to around 500 imbuing points.

ive gotten a couple Major Artys that arnt cursed.

got a nice longsword with SC and -20 mage, with mana regen 6 and mana and int increase 5.

a poor mans imbued planesword, hehe

 

[Storm]

got a nice longsword with SC and -20 mage, with mana regen 6 and mana and int increase 5.

a poor mans imbued planesword, hehe

Been looking for one of these for my bard! matter o fact when it goes live I am going to try and make a massive regen suit for running masteries!

 

[red sky]

Well, they do exist. Now to just get one without brittle and cannot be repaired.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Plague]

I agree 100% with poo, me being a pk'er myself id would like to know if fel is getting the higher and better drop rates as well...i fully support it because fel already has the reputation and to take it away at this point would be demeaning.
Risk vs Reward...the only time the reward is abused is when its being farmed by a zerg and controlled, but thats ok im used to that by now and nothing beats going in and getting a fresh kill on someone whos alone or in a group of two.
If Tram drop rates remain as high or higher than fels, my pk'ing occupation and role in ultima online will be compromised. I mean granted i get ganked alot but i just love hunting down those players that go out alone for the greater reward in fel.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

So with this new spawn of Super Weapons in shame, what's that do to current weapon sales? If it's not from Shame (and/or imbued), it's trash?

 

[Poo]

Been looking for one of these for my bard! matter o fact when it goes live I am going to try and make a massive regen suit for running masteries!

you know what, i was thinking along the exact same lines as this.
but i went and did some research into it and this is what i came up with in the end.

with the new cap on items being MR9 PER PIECE, that means that if you farmed long enough you could, and this is COULD have a suit that has mana regen 9 on each of the following:

1. tunic
2. legs
3. arms
4. gloves
5. neck
6. hat
7. ring
8. watch
9. weapon
10. shield

that gives you mana regen 90
then add on a tangle, conj robe and lt sash for 2 each.
so you could get up to Mana Regen 96 if you wanted too.

BUT..... there is always a butt isnt there, BUT, once we go past like 10 or 20 we hit diminishing returns.
so realistically its useless to go past mana regen 30.
between 30 and 96 there is really no difference.

and if your a necro and you run in lich form, you only need to go to like 17 MR cause the lich form give you 13 mana regen and it wont push you past the cap.

i did a lot of looking into this this week, so thought id pass this along since it was asked and i had the info right at hand here.

so basically its nice they raised the cap, but really you wont need anywhere even near to where that can get ya.

 

[Poo]

So with this new spawn of Super Weapons in shame, what's that do to current weapon sales? If it's not from Shame (and/or imbued), it's trash?

no not really.
99% of the stuff coming out of shame that is what we consider high end or desirable is either cursed and or no repairable.

and the durability on 99% of these items are low and they are gonna die after 1 or 2 uses.

i pulled a nice kryss with a tonne of leeches and stuff, went out and used it for a hour, it was half way dead.

so while the stuff can be good, its a very limit use stuff.

sure, theres gonna be the very very rare item that comes out that wont be cursed or brittle, but those are so rare that it wont effect the market any.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

What type of ratio is being seen, Garg vs Human items? (roughly).
someone was complaining earlier, but that may have been about TC

 

[red sky]

The ratio seems about 50/50 chance for garg/human items to drop. Other than that, even if there isn't a significant difference in loot between tram and fel. The one perk that's probably evident is that you have the ability to choose where you like to farm and when you like to farm in fel without sharing. Hehe.

 

[red sky]

Here's some fully "clean" item with no drawbacks. Some of the few that I've got that seem to be useful. I'm curious as to if the "reactive paralyze" works with bushido two-handed parrying.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Tina Small]

I was on levels 2 and 3 (in Trammel on Origin) earlier this morning. Saw lots of gargoyle stuff. Here are a few things I set aside as a few examples of some stuff that weren't cursed, brittle, nonrepairable, etc. (I unraveled all the items that were "artifacts" because none of them were free of negative mods.)

And here's one cursed ring that maybe is worth hanging onto with the thought that perhaps some day it can be tweaked:

I think it's too early to say what effect items like these will have on the economy. I have had my artificer on Origin unravel maybe 200 items at home and she got about 25 relic fragments from them, even though she's human and her imbuing skill is still only 97.9 or something like that. That's the first time I've EVER unravelled anything to get relic fragments using any one of my several artificers. I have never deliberately tried to craft something to unravel to relics and I seldom do peerless anymore, so I'm kinda tickled that my characters who usually don't run around in awesome gear will actually have a chance to get relic fragments. I also thought it was pretty cool she got .4 imbuing gains unraveling that stuff. I am such a cheapskate, it takes me forever to train imbuing because I won't buy gems and just sit and imbue stuff hour after hour for gains. Hunt, bring stuff home, unravel it, and maybe imbue a few pieces here and there for 10 or 20 minutes....maybe. But waste tons of resources to get to 120 imbuing...very unlikely. (That's why I loved getting to 120 imbuing on Siege. RoT made it cheap and fast. LOL)

I'm very excited about the possibility that more publishes like this will help bring folks back into the game who have been away for a few years and don't want to spend their RL cash buying gold from brokers to acquire stuff to be able to do stuff with or among people who have been playing for years or to train up skills. I think that the game loses a lot of people who come back, see what everyone else has, don't have all the time in the world to play, and get discouraged feeling like they are just wasting their time.

 

[Old Man of UO]

"Small" differences between Trammel and Felucca will be very hard to see just because of the nature of the statistics.

Without getting too technical, these are "binomial" distributions (such as "yes-no", "on-off"), and not "normal" distributions (the famous bell-shaped curve). The intensities of most properties are evenly distributed within specific ranges, and slayer properties are fixed intervals with varying chances to occur (that is, super slayers are rare).

While it's not hard to program these, it's a might harder to prove differences in a binomial distribution with dozens or even hundreds of these items depending on how small the difference is between Trammel and Felucca drops.

So, something like double resources is easy to see, but 10% difference in property intensities isn't. Most likely, only a Developer can confirm the difference.

 

[Old Man of UO]

*smacks forehead*

Okay, instead of comparing individual properties, you can compare the overall intensities of the items, which WILL be normally distributed.

So, collect about 30 named items from Trammel Shame and 30 named items from Felucca Shame, and record the overall intensity with Pinco's UI. You need to be sure to collect every named item, not just the best ones, and make sure your Luck doesn't change (no honoring).

Using the overall intensity, you can do a T-test to see if there is a significant difference, and how much difference there is. Pretty simple to do!

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I think it's too early to say what effect items like these will have on the economy.

I think the speculation of that in a separate thread might be interesting

 

[Poo]

Here's some fully "clean" item with no drawbacks. Some of the few that I've got that seem to be useful. I'm curious as to if the "reactive paralyze" works with bushido two-handed parrying.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

i was messing around with some of the reactice para stuff last night and didnt get them to go off at all.

tryed it on a bow and on a weapon.
didnt do anything to the guild mate i was fighting with.

went and tried it on a OL too and didnt notice anything either.