Shadowguard - Artifacts = PoF-able please!

[CovenantX]

I've done shadowguard probably more times than anyone has even come close.

Kyronix & Bleak

Today I finally finished getting my Full-set of Enchantress' Cameo's (without buying Any). ~5 months after shadowguard came out... These items are still not PoF-able btw, when can we expect that to happen, Next publish hopefully? (along with clean jewelry hopefully as well )

I've done about ~150-160 runs so far I've received ~345 total backpack drops (counting ones I've sold), but mind you, I farm this with 9 accounts averaging 2 drops per run but never exceeding 4 in a single run (which is rare to even get 4), Several without a drop at all. It takes me about 80-100mins (about 20mins longer before publish 92), that is not counting breaks between rooms w/e.

If I only had one account, it would have taken me ~1440 runs (using the same average drop-rate that I've experienced) to get a full set of cameos, that's absolutely ridiculous!

If we could get some response from the Devs regarding Enchantress' Cameo's becoming PoF-able, I'll probably start farming shadowguard again for additional sets. I will most definitely be buying some. until then, I'm happy I finally finished getting the set...

But damn, How do people with 1-2 accounts get these things?

EDIT: This is my first video btw.

 

[DJAd]

Not just cameos, all of them! I don't see brittle/antique/imbued/replica etc. on these items so it must be a bug that they can't be powered right?

Along with totally "clean" jewels while they are at it.

Talk about inconsistent and confusing.

*shakes head*

 

[MalagAste]

Most times I've gone to the roof NO ONE got anything at all so now no one will go with me.

 

[CovenantX]

Most times I've gone to the roof NO ONE got anything at all so now no one will go with me.

That's EXACTLY how I figured most people would feel about it.

I wouldn't waste my time going with a single account, once I figured out how I could do it with the right templates & set up I wanted to test it to see about how long it would take me to get what I was after, with every account I have access too.

I am honestly surprised people still do shadowguard, I expected it to turn out like trammel despise, where very seldomly someone goes there just because of the time it takes vs the chance of getting a reward from it. It's heading that way though. It's just taking longer than I expected.

Granted, I've done the same tests with trammel despise (revamp), I could do it with one character or I could take 7-9 and speed it up AND increase my chances of getting what I'm going there for.

 

[MalagAste]

That's EXACTLY how I figured most people would feel about it.

I wouldn't waste my time going with a single account, once I figured out how I could do it with the right templates & set up I wanted to test it to see about how long it would take me to get what I was after, with every account I have access too.

I am honestly surprised people still do shadowguard, I expected it to turn out like trammel despise, where very seldomly someone goes there just because of the time it takes vs the chance of getting a reward from it. It's heading that way though. It's just taking longer than I expected.

Granted, I've done the same tests with trammel despise (revamp), I could do it with one character or I could take 7-9 and speed it up AND increase my chances of getting what I'm going there for.

At most I can run 3 accounts... but not very well. I often run 2 with a tamer/mage and a mystic/mage/weaver... or my tamer/mage and my T-Hunter... but I don't do more than that... I can't imagine trying to co-ordinate 7 to 9 accounts.

 

[Goodmann]

They stated they don't want items lasting forever even though there are TONS that do (conjueres trinket,all talismans). Items with durability and no durability are a good thing especially when people have multi accounts and don't want to re-suit there characters often. I think I have literally 300-400 characters through my accounts and to use a item such as a cameo that will get used up is a waste of time and gold. I sold the 10 Cameos I had because I am not going to bother with shadowguard anymore until things get POFable or no durability, I will just consider it in the category as dungeon doom. The amount of time it took to get my cameos was insane. I doubt any single person could ever run 1 account and collect them all. This game is almost 19 years old and there needs to be end game items or items that last. I will just keep waiting on the next publish hoping things will get better and change.

 

[Goodmann]

I've done shadowguard probably more times than anyone has even come close.

Kyronix & Bleak

Today I finally finished getting my Full-set of Enchantress' Cameo's (without buying Any). ~5 months after shadowguard came out... These items are still not PoF-able btw, when can we expect that to happen, Next publish hopefully? (along with clean jewelry hopefully as well )

I've done about ~150-160 runs so far I've received ~345 total backpack drops (counting ones I've sold), but mind you, I farm this with 9 accounts averaging 2 drops per run but never exceeding 4 in a single run (which is rare to even get 4), Several without a drop at all. It takes me about 80-100mins (about 20mins longer before publish 92), that is not counting breaks between rooms w/e.

If I only had one account, it would have taken me ~1440 runs (using the same average drop-rate that I've experienced) to get a full set of cameos, that's absolutely ridiculous!

If we could get some response from the Devs regarding Enchantress' Cameo's becoming PoF-able, I'll probably start farming shadowguard again for additional sets. I will most definitely be buying some. until then, I'm happy I finally finished getting the set...

But damn, How do people with 1-2 accounts get these things?

160 runs and 1.5 hr per run=10 days of doing shadowguards straight LOL This has to be you IRL?

 

[MalagAste]

I look at it like this... how would you feel if we still didn't have insurance and had stuff like this all over... I think all shards would then be as dead as Siege. The fact is I have 90 characters on GLs alone... the idea of having to constantly farm new crap for them is a HUGE turn off... it's bad enough that periodically new stuff comes along you MUST have... There is always something new... New skill, Masteries, Primers, Powerscrolls etc... It has all become about the items and no one really plays for fun anymore.

I remember when we would get together in our GM armor and hang at the Yew Abbey and go on a dungeon crawl as a guild... But now you try taking a guild to do something and the spawn is so slow and so light and so easy with all the new armor and weapons and all that most folk solo all this stuff and a group is BORED stiff. They don't want to go to most places and not with a group either because everyone wants the drop... no one wants to share.... there isn't any incentive to be a community anymore...

Look the truth is even if it never breaks down eventually there will be some new piece of crap that everyone has to have.... that's what happens when you go from skills and simplicity to items and stats.... now that we have become all about the items there will always have to be something more..... harder, faster better mobs, new skills and weapons and armor and pets to combat it... followed by another boost in mobs because it's all too easy and boring and it just is a never ending cycle...

 

[CovenantX]

They don't want to go to most places and not with a group either because everyone wants the drop... no one wants to share.... there isn't any incentive to be a community anymore...

That is definitely a problem, it's 100% true... It very well could be a mentality issue with the current playerbase, I know I prefer to solo everything, but I do not mind going in groups. These are some things that need to be looked at especially if there's any interest in keeping newer players.

I did post about drop-rates and how they promoted solo play though, I'm sure it was in one of my many "Slither" posts... the rarity and how much harder it becomes to get a slither for yourself when you bring more people with you.

It seemed to be limited to 1 rare-drop per run, regardless of the amount of players involved. I've farmed Medusa & Stygian Dragon tons of times with multiple accounts and/or several other players. not once have I had a group with more than one "rare" drop- Slither, Medusa Floor Tile, Venom, Medusa statue, & 3.0 transcendence scroll.
It's been quite a while since I've farmed medusa for slithers, but unless something has changed, it's still like that.

I'm sure I've gotten enough drops to have an accurate reading on it as well...
65 Medusa's, 2 days, 10 characters..
and from the same thread...
65 Medusa's, 2 days, 10 characters..

 

[Deraj]

I am opposed to this change and believe that all artifacts should have a life cycle. No artifact should last forever. Adjust the drop rate, adjust the duration of the life of the object, but it should not live forever.

 

[drcossack]

I am opposed to this change and believe that all artifacts should have a life cycle. No artifact should last forever. Adjust the drop rate, adjust the duration of the life of the object, but it should not live forever.

But they do last forever. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Ornaments, Armor of Fortune, and Hat of the Magi, to name a few, dropped when Doom was new & are still around over a decade later. Or some of the Tokuno artifacts.

If they're going to make some of the Shadowguard artifacts PoF-able (I believe some of it is, although I haven't needed to check), then it should all be. Or none of it should be. Picking & choosing what you can/can't powder is ridiculous.

 

[CovenantX]

I am opposed to this change and believe that all artifacts should have a life cycle. No artifact should last forever. Adjust the drop rate, adjust the duration of the life of the object, but it should not live forever.

If nothing changes, people will stop bothering with that portion of the content, I agree about items not lasting forever, but most other items from shadowguard do, if you maintain it's durability, and PoF it when needed. if the item is not powder-able it needs to have a tag that restricts it from being powdered...

It can't just be not powderable because the dev team forgot to allow PoF to be applied to an item that normally did not have durability. (talismans, hawkwind robe, clothing....) everything that existed for those item slots before, always had a tag (replica) on the item, which prevents powder of fortifying, there was no reason to allow the items to be PoF-able.

Besides, I think there are enough people around today, that are using Brittle items, & even imbued items. There has to be some motive to hunt for "Clean" legendary items otherwise, what's the point?

If they couldn't be Powdered, there's literally zero difference between Clean & Brittle... except one is a hell of a lot more common, and one is extremely rare, let alone the chance of finding a clean item that's actually anywhere near as good as a brittle or antique piece.

 

[Goodmann]

I am opposed to this change and believe that all artifacts should have a life cycle. No artifact should last forever. Adjust the drop rate, adjust the duration of the life of the object, but it should not live forever.

there are already tons of artifacts that last forever so.........................

 

[Smoot]

they still last "forever" unless your terrible with taking care of gear.
when i used to farm heavily, my main sampire imbued gear was like 240 after over a year of play.
its more for looks, i dont see any actual "need" for them to be powdered. agree that for consistency it should be tagged "brittle"

i also think that brittle should have been capped at 75 durability to keep the flood of legendaries at least somewhat in check. the old mana phasing orbs capped at 75 still lasted a good while.
gear should not be permanant in the situation we have with too much gear, too easily aquired and too little use for it.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Most times I've gone to the roof NO ONE got anything at all so now no one will go with me.

I am one of those people that won't go with Malag any more. I think I've done the roof maybe 4-6 times now and haven't gotten a drop. In fact, I think I've only been in one group where one thing dropped. The pathetic drop rate vs time invested killed it for me. I find the orchard and the fountain enjoyable, but having to do all the rooms and then all 4 bosses is too much to do to get NOTHING.

I'm sorry to say it, but Shadowguard is a fail.

 

[CovenantX]

Oh, I forgot to mention in the OP, the "Luck"...
This is not including the luck statue (I don't use it, it would potentially interfere with testing (if applicable) since it only lasts an hour, also not including luck from Honor as I do not run bushido on any of my characters used.

Char - luck
1. 660
2. 2410
3. 740
4. 140
5. 0
6. 1160
7. 1160
8. 2290
9. 0

Party Total 8420 (I'm 100% sure this means absolutely nothing)

Luck seems to have not played a role at all, as it was impossible to differentiate drops to the characters with 0 luck vs the chars with 1000+ luck, there was absolutely No noticeable difference. I mentioned something about this before, but anyway... we started doing shadowguard as a guild to figure out the mechanics and stuff, we had a sampire do the tanking in the roof, he had honor on each boss, always did the most damage as nothing can really compete with Honor+EoO & AI spam 2220 luck + honor = 3220 (if that works....lol), that's not including the luck statue... the guy literally was the last of our 7 person group to get a drop, and he was taking 2 characters each run, I want to say we did maybe 10-12 runs before the one with the most luck got a drop, by then a few of us had 2-3 drops, needless to say he was mildly agitated, and resorted to farming something he's more use to getting decent drops from.

 

[Goodmann]

they still last "forever" unless your terrible with taking care of gear.
when i used to farm heavily, my main sampire imbued gear was like 240 after over a year of play.
its more for looks, i dont see any actual "need" for them to be powdered. agree that for consistency it should be tagged "brittle"

i also think that brittle should have been capped at 75 durability to keep the flood of legendaries at least somewhat in check. the old mana phasing orbs capped at 75 still lasted a good while.
gear should not be permanant in the situation we have with too much gear, too easily aquired and too little use for it.

Imbued items are different because they can be remade after there life runs out. items that are hard to get "Cameos" are items that take 100's of hours to get so there is a big difference. Doesn't matter to me bc I just simply use the stuff that doesn't take durability loss but don't get me wrong I would love to have other new items with these features. Just another flawed system I can chalk up to good try but not good enough. Let's wait for the next couple of pubs and see whats new

 

[Merlin]

These artifacts should not last forever.

Please do not make them POFable.

 

[CovenantX]

These artifacts should not last forever.

Please do not make them POFable.

Too late, some already are.

 

[Goodmann]

These artifacts should not last forever.

Please do not make them POFable.

TO LATE
Everything in this box last forever

 

[Merlin]

Not all of them are yet.

And the ones that are should be rolled back so that they aren't POFable.

 

[CovenantX]

Not all of them are yet.

And the ones that are should be rolled back so that they aren't POFable.

I guess it's a good thing you're not in charge of what happens to these things huh?

I'm pretty sure if my permanent items were taken away I wouldn't hesitate to quit and move to a more popular MMO or perhaps even one of many popular free shards.

 

[Finley Grant]

Can you post a video of how you do this? Iam heavily interested how u control 9 characters i struggle with 2 sometimes

 

[Smoot]

Imbued items are different because they can be remade after there life runs out. items that are hard to get "Cameos" are items that take 100's of hours to get so there is a big difference. Doesn't matter to me bc I just simply use the stuff that doesn't take durability loss but don't get me wrong I would love to have other new items with these features. Just another flawed system I can chalk up to good try but not good enough. Let's wait for the next couple of pubs and see whats new

well, i was specifically referring to my 10ssi jewels, which at the time were relatively high price and not easily remade. to me, if i was worried about durability loss, id be more worried about how much i was playing UO. because it would have to be an un-healthy amount for the loss to matter. yes it would be nice to be able to pof, like to resell you could fort it up just for looks, but i still dont see the real need.

 

[Smoot]

I'm pretty sure if my permanent items were taken away I wouldn't hesitate to quit and move to a more popular MMO or perhaps even one of many popular free shards.

you mean games where items actually go obsolete every 3 months, rather than just having some durability loss i still think we have it pretty good in UO when it comes to having to update and maintain items

 

[BeaIank]

I am all for artifacts with durability that won't last forever, but with the drop rates we deal with, that would be just plainly unrealistic.
If they are meant to break, it shouldn't be an endless grind to get a new one to replace them.

 

[Deraj]

But they do last forever. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Ornaments, Armor of Fortune, and Hat of the Magi, to name a few, dropped when Doom was new & are still around over a decade later. Or some of the Tokuno artifacts.

If they're going to make some of the Shadowguard artifacts PoF-able (I believe some of it is, although I haven't needed to check), then it should all be. Or none of it should be. Picking & choosing what you can/can't powder is ridiculous.

Let me clarify on my stance. I believe that all artifacts, even the ones you mentioned, should not be PoF-able. I agree with you that it is an inconsistent approach. Ornament of the Magician is particularly offensive, because of how incredibly overpowered it is, even after all of these years.

 

[Deraj]

If nothing changes, people will stop bothering with that portion of the content, I agree about items not lasting forever, but most other items from shadowguard do, if you maintain it's durability, and PoF it when needed. if the item is not powder-able it needs to have a tag that restricts it from being powdered...

It can't just be not powderable because the dev team forgot to allow PoF to be applied to an item that normally did not have durability. (talismans, hawkwind robe, clothing....) everything that existed for those item slots before, always had a tag (replica) on the item, which prevents powder of fortifying, there was no reason to allow the items to be PoF-able.

You're arguing for consistency, and I can't really argue against that. Above all else, I will agree that the rules should be consistent across the board (at least as much as possible).

Besides, I think there are enough people around today, that are using Brittle items, & even imbued items. There has to be some motive to hunt for "Clean" legendary items otherwise, what's the point?

If they couldn't be Powdered, there's literally zero difference between Clean & Brittle... except one is a hell of a lot more common, and one is extremely rare, let alone the chance of finding a clean item that's actually anywhere near as good as a brittle or antique piece.

Here is my question: what is point of durability? What gameplay purpose does it actually serve, when its underlying principle, the gradual erosion and eventual death of an item, is completely negated by powder? If we want consistency, I would argue that powder of fortifying, as it works now, is inconsistent with the very design of durability. It is so completely arbitrary to have to powder items as it serves nearly no actual purpose - there is no meaningful cost or drawback involved with using powder. Why not just cut out the BS and remove durability and powder altogether?

In my view, powder of fortifying should have one, and only one purpose, which would be to fortify crafted weapons and armor prior to imbuing.

 

[Deraj]

there are already tons of artifacts that last forever so.........................

Those should also not be PoF-able. The system is fundamentally broken.

 

[Prince Erik]

Most times I've gone to the roof NO ONE got anything at all so now no one will go with me.

That's me. I went twice in a group of 5, one person got 1 drop total. Same group went without me, two more times. No drops. Now I just won't go anymore. With the group hard to get together with our schedules the time invested is too much for these results. Heck, we're all still trying to get the primers we need!

-P.E.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

UO: For those who like to grind and shell out money for multiple accounts. Others need not apply.

 

[DJAd]

And the ones that are should be rolled back so that they aren't POFable.

I didn't even know any of them could be! Which ones?

 

[Merlin]

I guess it's a good thing you're not in charge of what happens to these things huh?

I'm pretty sure if my permanent items were taken away I wouldn't hesitate to quit and move to a more popular MMO or perhaps even one of many popular free shards.

I just got a full set of Cameos. I don't think these should last in perpetuity, or any of the Shadowguard artifacts. It also diminishes their value if they don't get cycled out of the game at some point. And even so, most of these items will last for YEARS. By the time I need a new set of Cameos, they will probably all be selling for 20-30% of their current average prices even if they aren't POFable. I'm taking this position on what I think is best for the game and other players long run, not a selfish sense of never wanting to go to Shadowguard again just because I have what I need.

People threaten to quit every day about one issue or another. Your threat is no different. Please save us the act.

 

[DJAd]

I will agree that the rules should be consistent across the board (at least as much as possible).

This is what annoys me most about it all to be honest. I think some of the Ararat artifacts spawn as clean or brittle. They need to make it consistent with ALL items/artifacts in the game. Its not that hard is it? It just illustrates how disconnected the devs are from the game in my eyes.

The loot system is already way to complicated (for new players) and needs simplifying. Prized, brittle, cursed, 50 stone items, 125 STR items, etc etc. You can powder clean armor but not clean jewels, oh and then there is [Replica] to chuck into the mix.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Things you can't POF have already lost value and hurt the player economy. They don't gain in value cause they break. It does nothing for the economy. Can't even sell the POF for them. I'm not building templates around stuff I might not be able to replace in a reasonable way. I for one won't touch them. Very few things, if any, are a must have or die situation. Perhaps if your one of the last few hard core PVPers. So if I can't at the very least POF it, I don't need it. Now if it were a nice item that didn't break I might try and get or buy maybe 4 or 5 of them. So which is better for the economy of the game? Me wanting none of it or interested in several of them? They already up the game with superior items every release we are suppose to chase. So why bother making them wear out when they are going to become yesterdays news anyway? It's seriously flawed thinking making something wear out, out dated, and near impossible to get all at the same time. Then when you do finally fall into the latest cool thing your not going to want to use it because it just going down the tubes in usefulness and value every time you wear it. Especially if it's an ultra rare drop. It's the stuff of bank sitters, collectors, and mannequins. Allow it to be POFed there goes maybe 100 or 200 mill of my gold for each item into the economy plus the POF for it. Make it breakable and I've spent zip. Probably why I've been banking so much gold the last few years.

 

[Smoot]

@Capt. Lucky

your style of using suits that "last forever" is not where the devs have directed the game. even for pvm, im using antique jewels that wear out 10 times faster than normal. these jewels can be replaced easly, and they are still at around 750 to 1k imbue weight. and thats for pvm. i can replace them extremely cheaply (most of these ive gotten for 10m or less) for pvp people are spending hundreds of millions on jewels knowing full well that theyllhave to be replaced, but not for years, and by then something new is out, or a replacement can be found.

if your not using "temporary" items, your not maximizing the benefits the devs have provided. which is fine to play average geared characters, and yes its less hassel / commitment to keep searching for replacements, but really what else are we supposed to do in the game except look for new gear?

i find just not being able to pof something for fear it will wear out is laughable. i think the arguement is more because people want to be able to just fort up an item after months of heavy use and sell it for the same price as a fresh, unused item. And realistically, a year old cameo at 245 durability probably isnt even significanly devalued because of the durability. maybe by 10 percent gold value or so but its not gamebreaking.

 

[drcossack]

Let me clarify on my stance. I believe that all artifacts, even the ones you mentioned, should not be PoF-able. I agree with you that it is an inconsistent approach. Ornament of the Magician is particularly offensive, because of how incredibly overpowered it is, even after all of these years.

Thing is, how many people even GO to Doom anymore? There's maybe 3-4 artifacts out of there now that are worth anything, and the Ornament is top of the list (unless you want to use the easily obtained vvv one); Armor of Fortune is mostly used in luck suits, some people still use the Hunter's Headdress, and a Mage has options for a head piece that are superior to the Hat of the Magi. That said, I use the Ornament on both of my LS pvp chars, as well as my rarely-played Atl pvp char (who currently has the vvv version), simply because it's the only 2/3 jewelry piece in the entire game.

Back in the day when the Doom artifacts were the endgame, it took me FOREVER to get my first one - it was maybe a year after the craze had died down, and I believe I did a fair amount of soloing. The very first time I did Tram Despise, a few years after it was introduced: Despicable Quiver, Fire Resist. Shadowguard? It took me SEVERAL runs before I got my first drop, and it was a ****ty Lerei's Hunting Spear.

I've pulled several since then, but outside of my recently acquired Minax Sandals (-Poison Resist), not ONE has been any of the "big 3" from Shadowguard's artifacts: Sandals, Robe, Cameo. Shadowguard is just not worth doing unless you bring a large group, because you likely won't get an artifact otherwise; if you do, chances are it'll be one of the crappier drops. I can go to Shadowguard on both LS & Atlantic and probably won't see anyone there, although that's admittedly less likely to happen on Atl.

Nobody wants to do it because of the time investment and the low chance of getting a specific drop, and I would guess that, at this point, the Cameo is the thing people want the most. Not only is it hard enough to GET, if you're looking for a specific Slayer it'll be even harder.

Eventually, all of the Shadowguard artifacts will be replaced with superior items for us to get our hands on. Once people farm that for a few weeks, the place will empty out, just like Doom, Tram Despise, and Shadowguard. With the amount of time it takes to get some of the Shadowguard artifacts, they should either be PoF-able or follow past precedent (for non-replica/non-vvv items) & have no durability whatsoever.

 

[MalagAste]

I just got a full set of Cameos. I don't think these should last in perpetuity, or any of the Shadowguard artifacts. It also diminishes their value if they don't get cycled out of the game at some point. And even so, most of these items will last for YEARS. By the time I need a new set of Cameos, they will probably all be selling for 20-30% of their current average prices even if they aren't POFable. I'm taking this position on what I think is best for the game and other players long run, not a selfish sense of never wanting to go to Shadowguard again just because I have what I need.

People threaten to quit every day about one issue or another. Your threat is no different. Please save us the act.

This is exactly the reason why we don't get and keep new players... everything is about price and worth... new players haven't got a chance. And since the drop rate sucks so bad most people WON'T do the roof anymore, won't go to Despise, Won't do EM Events, Won't do X, Y, or Z then you know something is WRONG! The game ISN'T Fun anymore it's a freaking grind... and it's for the RICH with the UBER outfits 10 accounts they run simultaneously (MULTI-BOXED) to get stuff to sell for WAY more gold than the average player has and a new player will NEVER have... making them frustrated and unable to compete... and therefore yep you guessed it QUIT.

Can't get primers, can't get the drops, can't get anyone to do stuff with them... stop playing. This game is very quickly becoming less and less of an MMO all the time... we need to stop putting so much freaking worth on everything useful in the game... seriously.

Remember back when UO was about FUN and FRIENDS and not about stuff?!?

 

[Merlin]

This is exactly the reason why we don't get and keep new players... everything is about price and worth... new players haven't got a chance. And since the drop rate sucks so bad most people WON'T do the roof anymore, won't go to Despise, Won't do EM Events, Won't do X, Y, or Z then you know something is WRONG! The game ISN'T Fun anymore it's a freaking grind... and it's for the RICH with the UBER outfits 10 accounts they run simultaneously (MULTI-BOXED) to get stuff to sell for WAY more gold than the average player has and a new player will NEVER have... making them frustrated and unable to compete... and therefore yep you guessed it QUIT.

Can't get primers, can't get the drops, can't get anyone to do stuff with them... stop playing. This game is very quickly becoming less and less of an MMO all the time... we need to stop putting so much freaking worth on everything useful in the game... seriously.

Remember back when UO was about FUN and FRIENDS and not about stuff?!?

I'm about 100% positive that the POFability of Shadowguard artifacts has nothing to do with rate of retaining new players. New players come here for community and to have fun - not for artifacts that last in perpetuity. All new players have to do is reach out and they will find people willing to help them get suited up, set up with weapons/gear, give them advice on templates, help raising skills, help them learn hunts, etc. My guild does it on a daily basis with players of all levels and I know that we are certainly not the only ones.

There is no doubt a barrier of entry related to costs of playing this game - but that starts with the numerous expansions needed to be on same level with other players - not in-game item costs. Also, new players shouldn't be able to immediately get the same level of items and artifacts that experienced players have and know how to obtain. If new players have access to everything and everything is easy to retain, cheap to buy, and lasts forever - then what about retainment of experienced players who put the time and effort into getting to this place? There needs to be a learning curve. It's a delicate balance. However, I digress, as this is off topic.

 

[CovenantX]

It also diminishes their value if they don't get cycled out of the game at some point.

I'll argue that point because of Evidence (not that I disagree)... How much are Slithers worth and are they still desirable? Despicable quivers, conjurer's trinkets & robes, these items are still very sought after sold/traded between players literally each and every day. these items don't even support the market for PoF...

Items that don't get cycled out of the game diminishes their value... because Slithers were going for 80-100mil about two years ago (down from 150-175m), now they're back up to 150-200m but wait, let me guess... They're breaking?

Meanwhile, items that are actually very hard to get "Clean" legendaries, Armor & Weapons are Pof-able... just the jewelry is not, which literally makes them exactly the same as imbued items, Except you have no control over the combination of properties, they could have more properties & intensity than an imbued item, however if you build a suit around a piece like that, how hard (it's impossible) would it be for you to find something with the same or even close too the item that had broken?

This is why there is little to no market for clean legendary jewerly. with the rarity of "clean legendarys" in combination with the chance these items would actually be "decent", slim to none. where antique items drop like rain it would be Much much easier to replace an antique with another antique (assuming nothing has changed with "negatives" since this loot system was introduced) a negative property increases the intensity & property count of an item minimally to substantially a clean item would very likely not compare to an antique. Why are they not PoF-able again? I'll wager it's because before they made this loot global, jewelry didn't even have durability unless it was imbued. Did the devs forget to set jewels to allow PoF applied?


But you know what, I honestly don't care if Cameos become powder-able, But something NEEDS to change, either they become powderable (which would be easier AND it would fix the inconsistency), or make them about 5-10x easier to get (increased drop-rate). 150-160 runs with 9 accounts is absolutely ridiculous if I want to get another full set for another character.

I'll tell you though and this is absolutely true, the greater good in having a market for things is to get more people involved in it (this is not happening enough to notice) it doesn't really matter if items last forever or not.

 

[CovenantX]

you mean games where items actually go obsolete every 3 months, rather than just having some durability loss i still think we have it pretty good in UO when it comes to having to update and maintain items

Absolutely, the items last forever though don't they? I don't mind for farming to get something "better". that's always here in UO. There's always something better when it comes to loot.


I was referring to my "non-replica items" that I've spent about ~5 billion gold on over the last 6 or so years as "permanent" items, the entire reason I went out of the way to get them, is because I won't need to replace them until something "Better" comes along. -I realize i didn't specifically mention them now. (I was tired)

Every one of my pvp characters are in VvV, absolutely none of them use any VvV artifacts, Because if it's something I'd have to replace even if it's once every couple months, it isn't worth it to me. I can deal without the +5 dex (VvV CC), it doesn't make or break a suit suit. Even if it's extremely easy to maintain silver points I'd rather just use non-VvV versions because they do not need to be repaired or they can be pof'd. It does put me at a very small disadvantage, but like I said, it matters not.

 

[Smoot]

Absolutely, the items last forever though don't they? I don't mind for farming to get something "better". that's always here in UO. There's always something better when it comes to loot.


I was referring to my "non-replica items" that I've spent about ~5 billion gold on over the last 6 or so years as "permanent" items, the entire reason I went out of the way to get them, is because I won't need to replace them until something "Better" comes along. -I realize i didn't specifically mention them now. (I was tired)

Every one of my pvp characters are in VvV, absolutely none of them use any VvV artifacts, Because if it's something I'd have to replace even if it's once every couple months, it isn't worth it to me. I can deal without the +5 dex (VvV CC), it doesn't make or break a suit suit. Even if it's extremely easy to maintain silver points I'd rather just use non-VvV versions because they do not need to be repaired or they can be pof'd. It does put me at a very small disadvantage, but like I said, it matters not.

i dunno, ive used vvv gear on my sampire for over a year now and still doesnt need to be replaced. its at like 200 durability. i guess i just dont see the big deal. and i still have 1k free silver points for when it does have to be replaced.

in all seriousness, are you having problems with items wearing out? i just cant fathom the amount of time playing it would take for this actually to be an issue. tho i do agree for sake of consistencey any item that cant be forted should be tagged "brittle" (including antique and all other jewels with dura on them)

 

[CovenantX]

I didn't even know any of them could be! Which ones?

All of the weapons & shields can be PoF'd. It's only the items that never had durability before that aren't, this is why (I think) it's a bug.
Clothing - all types- they never had durability before without a [replica] tag. earrings, talismans same category.

I wonder why the devs have not responded to this yet? I know during a meet & greet they said the items Will be Repairable, Pof-able, but NOT Alterable..

 

[CovenantX]

iin all seriousness, are you having problems with items wearing out?

I don't have a problem with items wearing out, it's mostly two things.

1) It's inconsistent new players, or even people who just don't know about these things automatically assume it's ok if they don't repair it "Now", only to find out they lost more durability on a potentially crucial part of their suit later. (Inconsistent)

2) The amount of time it would take someone on average is far too long to get some of these items. especially if they are like many, and don't have the gold to spend to have it now. (Drop-rates)

 

[MalagAste]

I'm about 100% positive that the POFability of Shadowguard artifacts has nothing to do with rate of retaining new players. New players come here for community and to have fun - not for artifacts that last in perpetuity. All new players have to do is reach out and they will find people willing to help them get suited up, set up with weapons/gear, give them advice on templates, help raising skills, help them learn hunts, etc. My guild does it on a daily basis with players of all levels and I know that we are certainly not the only ones.

There is no doubt a barrier of entry related to costs of playing this game - but that starts with the numerous expansions needed to be on same level with other players - not in-game item costs. Also, new players shouldn't be able to immediately get the same level of items and artifacts that experienced players have and know how to obtain. If new players have access to everything and everything is easy to retain, cheap to buy, and lasts forever - then what about retainment of experienced players who put the time and effort into getting to this place? There needs to be a learning curve. It's a delicate balance. However, I digress, as this is off topic.

Did not read my post did you? And not everyone starts on Atl... a lot of players start on shards where finding help is like finding a needle in a haystack...

There is also a learning curve.... and then there are severe blocks to learning.... the lack of a new player tutorial... the lack of anyone in the Help Channel, inconsistent support.... inconsistent and old data and information... the lack of a player guide... what is on the OU site is hit or miss and really unless you knew what you were looking for you're likely not to find it.... I could go on and on.... and it's not just about POF ability.... You talked about WORTH of items..... that is what I was talking about... Bunch of you all think everything has to be about profit and about WORTH.... what worth is there when no one is left to play the game?!?


Sick and tired of everything having to be a grind and nearly impossible to get.. unless you CHEAT or have EXTREMELY deep pockets.

 

[Goodmann]

i dunno, ive used vvv gear on my sampire for over a year now and still doesnt need to be replaced. its at like 200 durability. i guess i just dont see the big deal. and i still have 1k free silver points for when it does have to be replaced.

in all seriousness, are you having problems with items wearing out? i just cant fathom the amount of time playing it would take for this actually to be an issue. tho i do agree for sake of consistencey any item that cant be forted should be tagged "brittle" (including antique and all other jewels with dura on them)

When I build a suit it's top of the line all the way pvp and pvm so I have invested all of this time/gold into a awesome suit only to have to replace it a few months later and some pieces can't be replaced. People with junk suits I can easily see saying who cares if its brittle bc they have nothing invested. If you are not wearing your gear out like mine does then your not doing the kind of stuff I do.

VVV artifacts are bad for the game they cost nothing and do not promote pvp

 

[Goodmann]

Did not read my post did you? And not everyone starts on Atl... a lot of players start on shards where finding help is like finding a needle in a haystack...

There is also a learning curve.... and then there are severe blocks to learning.... the lack of a new player tutorial... the lack of anyone in the Help Channel, inconsistent support.... inconsistent and old data and information... the lack of a player guide... what is on the OU site is hit or miss and really unless you knew what you were looking for you're likely not to find it.... I could go on and on.... and it's not just about POF ability.... You talked about WORTH of items..... that is what I was talking about... Bunch of you all think everything has to be about profit and about WORTH.... what worth is there when no one is left to play the game?!?


Sick and tired of everything having to be a grind and nearly impossible to get.. unless you CHEAT or have EXTREMELY deep pockets.

I love your last statement about grinding and cheating. Example=People run heartwood scripts bc no one in there right mind would ever try and get runic saws by hand unless your mentally ill. People "cheat" because of the near impossible odds of getting items with the RNG. Maybe if they ever came out with a reward system instead of RNG people would be more inclined to actually get the items instead of paying scripters. Scripting will always exist but if you give people a legitimate goal of obtaining a reward then wth would they pay a scripter

 

[MalagAste]

I love your last statement about grinding and cheating. Example=People run heartwood scripts bc no one in there right mind would ever try and get runic saws by hand unless your mentally ill. People "cheat" because of the near impossible odds of getting items with the RNG. Maybe if they ever came out with a reward system instead of RNG people would be more inclined to actually get the items instead of paying scripters. Scripting will always exist but if you give people a legitimate goal of obtaining a reward then wth would they pay a scripter

I agree... No one in their right mind would try to get high end ore or lumber from mining or lumberjacking either... it's a waste of time and energy... which makes it difficult to get Stone too in the higher metal colors.

Most people get excited about something and try a few times to obtain it.... kinda like going to EM events for a drop and many of my friends having gone for SEVERAL years NEVER have gotten a thing. Not even when it's supposed to be an EVERYONE drop. They don't get it... They go do the roof a few times and then weight the time invested vs the lack of a drop and say F this not doing it anymore...

And then the only ones left doing things are the ones who either script it... or have all the gear and gold and everything else already along with the top of the line computer or 3 or 4 and the super high speed internet and it seems to me that more and more the game is designed to thwart those people but makes it so anyone else is just F'd.... and has next to NO chance to get anything.... so then they are left having to pay the cheaters for the items they want and having to pay HIGH fees to get it because the cheatters set the price high because they are in it to make a profit off the game... gold to them is money in the bank... which they turn around and sell gold at super low prices so really it's nuts... but people wouldn't feel the need to buy this gold if they could actually obtain the stuff in-game themselves.

 

[Merlin]

Did not read my post did you? And not everyone starts on Atl... a lot of players start on shards where finding help is like finding a needle in a haystack...

There is also a learning curve.... and then there are severe blocks to learning.... the lack of a new player tutorial... the lack of anyone in the Help Channel, inconsistent support.... inconsistent and old data and information... the lack of a player guide... what is on the OU site is hit or miss and really unless you knew what you were looking for you're likely not to find it.... I could go on and on.... and it's not just about POF ability.... You talked about WORTH of items..... that is what I was talking about... Bunch of you all think everything has to be about profit and about WORTH.... what worth is there when no one is left to play the game?!?


Sick and tired of everything having to be a grind and nearly impossible to get.. unless you CHEAT or have EXTREMELY deep pockets.

I'm not sure if you read my either. And frankly, new players shouldn't be starting anywhere but Atlantic. But I am admittedly heavily biased toward Atlantic, so take that for what you will, it's only an opinion.

There is nothing wrong about talking about the "worth" of items. I am a hedge fund and private equity accountant - the valuation of 'things' matters to me. I happen to believe greed is good (see Gordon Gekko quote from Wall Street). One of my favorite aspects of this game is the unique economy, trading, so on and so forth. The wonderful thing about UO is that there is a part of this game that intrigues everyone and the economy is a big part of why I love this game. I'm not saying it has to be important to everyone, but it's important to me. I don't mind the 'itemization' of UO. It happened. It's not going to be reversed. I got over that a long time ago.

And no need with the melodramatic 'when no one is left to play this game' chatter. There are many aspects that will contribute to the end of this game beyond the perceived obsession with value and worth of items.

 

[CovenantX]

I'm not sure if you read my either. And frankly, new players shouldn't be starting anywhere but Atlantic. But I am admittedly heavily biased toward Atlantic, so take that for what you will, it's only an opinion.

Too be fair, who is telling all new players to start on Atlantic?

New players will start where ever they want or wherever their "recruiter" asked them too.
That doesn't determine whether or not the new player sticks with the game. (nor does making items pof-able or not), but inconsistency WILL be avoided by some.