Seven Potential Voter Solutions To Combat Ballot Box Stuffing In City Elections

[Merlin]

ABSOLUTELY, 100% ... voting should only be allowed to characters that OWN HOUSES ON THOSE SHARDS. Period. No different than real life when you own a house in one State, which is where you hold residency, you cannot fly to another state and vote there.

Agreed. Votes should only be allowed on shards where you have a house. What happened in Moonglow in Atlantic with Summer farming people from other shards to come vote in a tight election is voter fraud IMHO.

And honestly at a much larger scale than just elections, the poor service level and lack of response of the Game Masters when called upon leaves people exposed to various degrees of bully tactics and harassment and Broadsword... or rather EA... needs to answer for that through LEGAL channels in my honest opinion. Now a days, people getting bullied and harassed leads to VERY VERY real concequences. We cannot allow anyone to feel that way! I would feel utterly destroyed to hear someone might take their life over things that happen in UO. And folks may think that's silly, but that ABSOLUTELY happens. I've seen it in other games. It is Broadsword's responsibility to ensure their service protects those people.

Disagreed. If Broadsword has to go to court or incur legal costs for UO - Kiss this game good bye.

And I don't care if this is mean, but people who kill themselves over video games are weak. People who are that thin-skinned are a problem we have in this country - everyone wants be a victim and get compensated for it. We should look at it as survival of the fittest - one less mouth to leach off of social security and welfare. The "bullying" in this game is nothing compared to other games. I've seen some intimidation tactics in PVP and maybe even a little sexual harassment, but never anything that any one with half a brain should consider hurting themselves over. It is not Broadsword's responsibility to protect against this. Just as in real life, it is not the government's responsibility to shield us from every potential harm that exists in this dangerous world (unless ofcourse you're a liberal).

 

[Smoot]

Where did it say in Nails post about having to own a house? I play like 14 shards, i dont even care who wins the election on Atlantic, its the shards without houses where the elections actually matter.

UO elections obviously cant be compared ro RL elections at all. In real life you can have as many houses as you want and can claim residency on any one of them. I would be fine with 1 vote per account, it would still allow the massive householders to be offset by massive account holders who dont vote on house shard, but not allow them to overinfluence the elections.

 

[Smoot]

I Know I've heard this idea in other thread, Seems Simple enough, 1 Acct 1 Vote. pretty straight forward even. Would put an Instant stop to XShard Voting
Sure would like to hear a Devs point of view on this.

realistically, the accounts that turn elections dont generally vote. Yes, having 100 accounts vote on 1 shard would be more "fair" than multiplying those votes across a number of shards. Usually tho it doesnt make a differnece. very rarely do those 100 account holders have to be called in on more than 1 shard.

 

[Longtooths]

We need some of those idea's for sure after the whole election situation in Britain on Atlantic this past couple of days, where Longtooth just ran up the vote's for Solus by getting everyone he knew from other shards to vote for him.

This is simply not true. I used my ICQ list to make people (basically the entire rares community) aware of the vote and that if they decided to vote for Solus I would provide the gates and ingots to do so. I find it humorous that you accuse me of garnering votes off shard after some of the tactics the competition used and I witnessed first hand.

 

[mghtyshark]

What if we create a tournament style voting process to see who is more capable of governing the towns. I propose that each one that wants to run for governor should fight to the death until there is only one......After all guts and glory should be a requirement for the position.

 

[TandaBSK]

The current voting system is 1 vote per shard per account. Trimmed down from the original where every character had a vote. Trial accounts can't vote.
You have to be respected to have enough loyalty to cast a vote and a citizen of that city. Changing city loyalty requires 1 week prior to the election.

I run and pursue Governor because I most of the time enjoy giving back to the community. GL's has been a great shard. Working as a team Governor's through
player run events can make at least a little impact. Not even the EM's and Devs can make everyone happy so... that's a given.

If your running for Governor for the title, your missing the point. If your running because you think you can get the Devs to fix something in game.... well
I hope your a patient soul and not holding your breath. (There have been a few game modifications added for this program. Governor's office which are NOT
part of the world, a stable was added to Vesper Great Lakes that is, 2 npc guards added on GL.) (There MAYBE in the near-ish future docks added to Minoc
and Yew again this would be across I think all shards.) This forum or play dimension was added to encourage player interaction, to try to bridge a bit
of the space between the rpg part of UO and the pvm/pvp. Bring in new things to do, develop some city loyalty "hometown spirit" if you will.

If your seeing this as an opportunity to "Change" the world fix all of UOs quirks your reading too much into it. Player Governors are roleplaying, your
relating the needs of your citizens NOT about game mechanics, bugs, gripes about all that behind the scenes stuff, but about Tim the Tinker in Minoc
has been having issues with theft from his shop. Or interacting with an EM plotline. In some instances the EMs will interact with a plotline of player
creation in a limited fashion. If we can impact anything on a Global level it will be little steps, over LONG periods of time, with lots of debate, evaluation
and such behind the scenes by Mesanna and the Devs. There is some sort of grand plan or vision which Kryonix has in his mind, we see only pieces as
things are tested and shifted.

I've been at this since the first election, it's moving slowly in encouraging ways. It's been frustrating on all sides. For some the election is about
prestige and perceived glory or power, for others its about the community, for some who have invested hours of time and millions in trade deals and
events it can be very personal and passionate. There is a sense of wanting to build a team with all the cities on some shards, getting to know another
player outside your "circle" and working together takes some time.

Win or lose, *If I'd have lost* I'd felt like I'd left the job unfinished, but the game goes on, I'd continue with other aspects of my game play and focus on events there.
We can't manage, legislate, or rulebook other people into being who we wish them to be. Next election cycle will be in June.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

Agreed. Votes should only be allowed on shards where you have a house. What happened in Moonglow in Atlantic with Summer farming people from other shards to come vote in a tight election is voter fraud IMHO.

The exact same thing happened to me on Catskills. Votes were bought at 4 million per on Atlantic.

Disagreed. If Broadsword has to go to court or incur legal costs for UO - Kiss this game good bye.

And I don't care if this is mean, but people who kill themselves over video games are weak. People who are that thin-skinned are a problem we have in this country - everyone wants be a victim and get compensated for it. We should look at it as survival of the fittest - one less mouth to leach off of social security and welfare. The "bullying" in this game is nothing compared to other games. I've seen some intimidation tactics in PVP and maybe even a little sexual harassment, but never anything that any one with half a brain should consider hurting themselves over. It is not Broadsword's responsibility to protect against this. Just as in real life, it is not the government's responsibility to shield us from every potential harm that exists in this dangerous world (unless ofcourse you're a liberal).

When you PAY for a service, and their TOS states that certain things aren't tolerated in game and that they have a means to combat that, yet you go to use those tools and it doesn't work and nothing is done about it. Guess what? You're legally liable. And if that means the game shuts down... That's what it means. If they don't address this, it will happen.

Whether you believe that weaker people need protection or not... I'm sorry to say that it's mostly those types of people that gravitate to online gaming. So yes gaming companies have a moral duty to implement tools to fight that. All games I know have such tools and they work properly. UO's simply doesn't --- no one comes to assist you anymore. There used to be GM's that put you in jail for 24 hrs and stuff like that. It isn't like that anymore.

 

[Dot_Warner]

The ToS/RoC aren't worth a damn since it/they are either selectively enforced or not enforced at all.

About the only thing a GM will enforce if its paged on is someone with an (important) UO lore character name, or the use of the R-word (regardless of context).

Furthermore, UO's completely assbackwards harassment policy only emboldens those who get off on it to do it more.

It's really a sad state of affairs that it isn't a priority for EA or Broadsword to even pretend to run a clean game.

 

[THP]

Sadly all that will happen with any of these suggested changes is the price of votes will just go up, and then really only the super rich can win the hardcore elections.

which is what they want to happen....

 

[THP]

sorry guys and gals...sorry to burst your UO bubble...but UO as been exploited in every corner in every aspect ..... and will keep being exploited forever because some folks like/want to cheat to gain an unfair advantage....live with it...thats what the DEVS themselves once told us .... Get along with it and live with it....

 

[Merlin]

When you PAY for a service, and their TOS states that certain things aren't tolerated in game and that they have a means to combat that, yet you go to use those tools and it doesn't work and nothing is done about it. Guess what? You're legally liable. And if that means the game shuts down... That's what it means. If they don't address this, it will happen.

Legally liable for bullying or if someone offs themselves? Sorry - that's not the case. Look at other similar situations with social media sites and other online services like AOL, Facebook, etc. They've been sued for this and won out almost unanimously and they were for far more serious issues, like people actually killing themselves and other bullying and harassment instances, than a few UO players who's feelings were hurt when a Red player killed someone's packy, character, robbed the corpses and mocked them afterwards. If you want some watered-down baby game where people aren't expected to have to defend themselves in any shape or form and that the game provider should invoke ToS for every minor infringement, then World of Warcraft awaits you.

I will certainly agree that the GM response time to issues is sorely lacking, but that's also because people abuse it for minor stuff by paging when it's really unnecessary (e.g.: OMG! I was customizing my house and now I can't find my <insert rare item name here>. Find it for me immediately or I'm quitting!). If there is ever an issue of serious harassment that could some how rise to a legal level, there are channels to deal with this. Example: this forum. If someone was experiencing a truly serious harassment situation and posted it up here in a call for help, there would be a response - from fellow players first and likely others if necessary.

I would rather UO be like the Wild West than like Sesame Street.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I miss looting people and taunting them back at W Brit bank. eTears ftw...la

 

[THP]

Like i said u r playing UO...every nook and cranny as been exploited

Seems to me if u wanna be a governor then u need pay more folks off than your rival...pretty simple...the rich normally win as in real life

 

[whiterabbit]

MEEES TIRED OB BEING POLITIACLLY CORRECT, AND KISS EVEYBUDDIES ASS
CAUSE THEY FIN CERTIAN THINGS OFENSIVE. (SOME MALLS HABE EBEN DONE AWAY WIF SANTI CLAWS, BUH.
LETS NOT FERGETS WOOS B DAY DIS IS
GUBNORS BAH DEY NEBER GUNNA CHANGE DIS VOTING SYS.
OZOG FER KING

 

[Bianca_CoD]

Legally liable for bullying or if someone offs themselves? Sorry - that's not the case..

Social media sites are different, because you do not pay for those services. But they all still had to defend themselves, which cost them hundreds of thousands. The fact you pay for a service, a service laid out in a Terms of Service, and then its not delivered that's when you get into the legalities. I am in the legal field, and I know of several gaming companies, including the aforementioned World of Warcraft that have had to settle out of court on instances of bullying and harassment. Sony Entertainment was the first one, Elizabeth Wolley sued on behalf of her son, an Everquest player for his suicide. Winning isn't everything --- ask any lawyer --- its the amount of time you spend in count and drain that has on a company that can be potentially damaging. There have been instances where you win a case, and still end up paying the other side through the nose for it. Fact is most companies settle out of court, which still warrants a cost to the company. Bullying and harassment are very real threats. There should be more of an urgency to protect the players from such activities. And if the developers/publishers do not do it, then the community should stand up together and not allow it.

As someone here has said, EA would not sustain UO anymore if someone did sue. Its already been sued once, and that back in those days, was almost enough to shut it down. If anything like that was to happen, I think we'd all be saying good bye to UO.

~ Sue.

 

[Bianca_CoD]

The ToS/RoC aren't worth a damn since it/they are either selectively enforced or not enforced at all.

About the only thing a GM will enforce if its paged on is someone with an (important) UO lore character name, or the use of the R-word (regardless of context).

Furthermore, UO's completely assbackwards harassment policy only emboldens those who get off on it to do it more.

It's really a sad state of affairs that it isn't a priority for EA or Broadsword to even pretend to run a clean game.

Well said my friend! For sure, I agree 100%.

~ Sue.

 

[Merlin]

Social media sites are different, because you do not pay for those services. But they all still had to defend themselves, which cost them hundreds of thousands. The fact you pay for a service, a service laid out in a Terms of Service, and then its not delivered that's when you get into the legalities. I am in the legal field, and I know of several gaming companies, including the aforementioned World of Warcraft that have had to settle out of court on instances of bullying and harassment. Sony Entertainment was the first one, Elizabeth Wolley sued on behalf of her son, an Everquest player for his suicide. Winning isn't everything --- ask any lawyer --- its the amount of time you spend in count and drain that has on a company that can be potentially damaging. There have been instances where you win a case, and still end up paying the other side through the nose for it. Fact is most companies settle out of court, which still warrants a cost to the company. Bullying and harassment are very real threats. There should be more of an urgency to protect the players from such activities. And if the developers/publishers do not do it, then the community should stand up together and not allow it.

As someone here has said, EA would not sustain UO anymore if someone did sue. Its already been sued once, and that back in those days, was almost enough to shut it down. If anything like that was to happen, I think we'd all be saying good bye to UO.

~ Sue.

We do pay for social media services - just not out of pocket. They sell your information to marketers and force you to see advertisements on their page. But that's a different topic entirely and now I'm admittedly splitting hairs...

World of Warcraft/Blizzard has been sued (and has sued other companies) on several occasions in the past five years. In most all cases, winning them. To my knowledge, I do not know of any bullying case they were sued for and lost/settled out of court and could not readily find any when doing internet searches (please share link, as I am truly curious to find out myself). The Everquest lawsuit didn't involve bullying - it involved addiction. Just another example of HOW WEAK AS A SOCIETY we are becoming when parents take zero responsibility and look for a quick payout for not raising their kids properly enough to know killing yourself is never the answer - especially not when involving butt-hurt feelings over video games. Shame on any one who pushes the notion that internet companies are responsible for these suicides. But again... an entirely different topic...

What I will agree with you on is that all it would take is one lawsuit and/or having to incur legal expenses for some BS like what we've described above to probably knock this game out of commission. Are there seriously bullying issues on such a large scale in Ultima Online that could lead to this? I don't know for certain, but I'd really be surprised if there was when you consider that the UO player base is generally older and more mature than most other games. This isn't a game whose population consists of many fragile minded middle schoolers.

My apologies to others for straying far off the election topic.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

LEROY JENKINS!!!...la

 

[Capt. Lucky]

1) Yes
2) Really bad idea
3) No
4) Perhaps
5) No, way too much to expect from the dev team. They have better things to concentrate on
6)I like it
7)I don't have an issue with that

 

[Smoot]

Social media sites are different, because you do not pay for those services. But they all still had to defend themselves, which cost them hundreds of thousands. The fact you pay for a service, a service laid out in a Terms of Service, and then its not delivered that's when you get into the legalities. I am in the legal field, and I know of several gaming companies, including the aforementioned World of Warcraft that have had to settle out of court on instances of bullying and harassment. Sony Entertainment was the first one, Elizabeth Wolley sued on behalf of her son, an Everquest player for his suicide. Winning isn't everything --- ask any lawyer --- its the amount of time you spend in count and drain that has on a company that can be potentially damaging. There have been instances where you win a case, and still end up paying the other side through the nose for it. Fact is most companies settle out of court, which still warrants a cost to the company. Bullying and harassment are very real threats. There should be more of an urgency to protect the players from such activities. And if the developers/publishers do not do it, then the community should stand up together and not allow it.

As someone here has said, EA would not sustain UO anymore if someone did sue. Its already been sued once, and that back in those days, was almost enough to shut it down. If anything like that was to happen, I think we'd all be saying good bye to UO.

~ Sue.

sooo... i can sue EA because theres a script miner outside my house? LOL

Realistically, UO is a very very very tame game when it comes to "bullying" it barely exists. try playing a console game and hearing some of the more creative insults

 

[THP]

again if u want be govenror pay more to froinjds and nget the votes itn really simple system

 

[Bianca_CoD]

sooo... i can sue EA because theres a script miner outside my house? LOL

Realistically, UO is a very very very tame game when it comes to "bullying" it barely exists. try playing a console game and hearing some of the more creative insults

Hacking the propriety code of a gaming company is absolutely 100% legally withstanding. So if that's what you're doing, EA has every right to come after you for hacking their code. The hundreds if not thousands of "player-ran shards" could all be sued for thousands in lost revenue and other punitive damages. Do they spend the time and money to do that for a game this old? No. Can you sue another player for them hacking the code? No. You have zero ownership to the claim.

I have often found that the people that often say, "I don't see any bullying around," are often the ones doing the bullying. I have seen more bullying in UO than I have in the other 12 games I have played over the last decade plus. But because there are just as many nice people as there is bullies, I have been willing to deal with it.

 

[Smoot]

no idea what you mean or how that applies to what you said before, but OK !

 

[Mithryl Elves]

Very good ideas Nails. Implementing #6 one vote per account by the next election solves a whole lot of time adding all of that though. #6 should be added immediately.