See, this is what UO needs.

[Violence]

Middle - Aged Gamer : Five Years Later : An Interview With The Ultima X : Odyssey Team

Comprised of 15 questions posed to some of the people behind UX:O, this article presents some interesting points of view regarding the game's cancelation. With this post I am not trying to steal the light from the original thread informing the Forums about the interview. I just want to draw attention to a specific part of the interview, the last sentence of Mr. Saffel's reply.

12. Do you believe that, if UXO had been finished and released as originally planned, it would have been successful?

Kevin Saffel : I do. It was still a little rough around the edges but there were a LOT of great things in the game. Item leveling, ascension, spell system, cutting edge art and many others. I was actually looking forward to playing it myself. I believe it would have really hooked old Ultima fans because it really pushed hard on what made Ultima what it was. :bowdown:

Is Stygian Abyss trying to do exactly that? Will it succeed?
Do people WANT more Ultima in UO or are they happy with just more WOW in UO at this time, after AOS-SE-ML, consecutive efforts leading further away from old UO AS A GAME? I capitalise the last part so that readers don't get confused- I don't examine whether "..The old days were better.." just whether the OLD UO was better.

I think neither the Devs nor the players want more Ultima anymore, in fact the newcoming players probably want it more than the veterans in that sense. And I'm worried Stygian Abyss will either be cancelled repeating UX:O or will lack the luster it's hyped to have, KR or not, as the Devs will try to further immitate recent releases.

In light of that interview I'd like to see a FOF answering questions about SA's and its Developers' ambitions. At this point I don't care to learn about new abilities or anything. We had lots of items/abilities/lands already and I don't want to hear about it if it's gonna be more WoWuO.

 

[love2winalot]

Here is the thing about Ultima, It is not, and never was one of the more popular RPG's. Go ask people about Final Fantasy, breath of Fire, Warcraft, Warhammer, HOMM, and ask them what they know of the game? I do not know what game they know the most about, but i do know that Ultima is what they/we/us/me know the least about.

If this would have been released as Breath of Fire On Line, you would have the same thing. A Old game, that very few that are playing, actually played the console version. Do a Poll and see.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

There has never been ANYTING like the early years of UO. It was so fresh, so new, and so exciting. The PvP will NEVER be topped, ever. Guild wars would bring hundreds on to the battlefield at once. Alliances were formed, and literally screenfulls of characters would fight it out. The old system was amazing, before the release of UO:R. I fully agree with you, UO players are not real UO players anymore, WoW players looking for another fix.

 

[Setnaffa]

Here is the thing about Ultima, It is not, and never was one of the more popular RPG's. Go ask people about Final Fantasy, breath of Fire, Warcraft, Warhammer, HOMM, and ask them what they know of the game? I do not know what game they know the most about, but i do know that Ultima is what they/we/us/me know the least about.

If this would have been released as Breath of Fire On Line, you would have the same thing. A Old game, that very few that are playing, actually played the console version. Do a Poll and see.

In what terms? compared to what?

Ultima was never an RPG in terms of Paper RPG's. It was the original graphic RPG for Apple computers in the early 80's and it ruled for quite awhile (Ultima IV was in my opinion the best of the bunch). Its only early competition came from Wizardry ("Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord" and "Knight of Diamonds"), but Wizardry was only graphical when you were in the dungeon and then it was only wall lines and creature bitmap images. Its next competition came from "The Bard's Tale" which was the first 'First-Person" RPG. BT was quite fun, but it got boring before the end-game scenario.

When Ultima came out, Final Fantasy wasn't even a glint in the eye of its creator. Warcraft didn't show up until the late 90's.

In terms of MMORPG's, UO was the top of the heap from 1997 until EverQuest came out about a year later. It definitely was the most popular and was leaps and bounds better than Meridian or any of the MUD's that were out at that time. It is now relegated to the Has-been pile, but it definitely had its moment of supreme popularity.

What do I think UO needs? I think it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with 21st century graphics. I believe it is time to scrap the old UO and move everyone over to a completely new UO. Maybe the maps would be similar, but the graphic engine would be completely new. They should allow a one-time import of characters and some items, but no everything. They may lose a few hold-outs, but UO will never grow in its current state, so a new game is the only way to keep it going.

 

[ColterDC]

Here is the thing about Ultima, It is not, and never was one of the more popular RPG's. Go ask people about Final Fantasy, breath of Fire, Warcraft, Warhammer, HOMM

I think you're stating your opinion, which is fine, but it's not a fact.

5 years ago I knew of Ultima and Final Fantasy. Played both of them on the original NES.

Never heard of any of the others you listed.

 

[RenaLynne]

Heres the thing that I dont get about all these complaints made about "how UO is today". You prefered UO back in the day with only one shard, you could gank anyone, wasnt item based, ect. My question is, why did you continue playing when the expansions came out? If you didnt like the new expansions/content why did you stay? To be an unhappy player? Why dont you search for another game that is more along the lines or same concept as UO in its early days? (Im not saying this rudely, this is just something I would do if I prefered UO back when) Admittedly, my accounts only 4 years so I dont know what it was like.

How can you say UO players arent real UO players anymore? What are they then???

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Heres the thing that I dont get about all these complaints made about "how UO is today". You prefered UO back in the day with only one shard, you could gank anyone, wasnt item based, ect. My question is, why did you continue playing when the expansions came out? If you didnt like the new expansions/content why did you stay? To be an unhappy player? Why dont you search for another game that is more along the lines or same concept as UO in its early days? (Im not saying this rudely, this is just something I would do if I prefered UO back when) Admittedly, my accounts only 4 years so I dont know what it was like.

How can you say UO players arent real UO players anymore? What are they then???

I actually quit when AoS came out. Did my military service. I came back a month ago at a friends request.

As far as being "Ganked by anyone", it was a LOT different then. Today the game is solely based on items and the luck of the draw. Before AoS, I could take on 5 people at a time, and win. Why? Because I could think on my feet, I could form effective strategies on the fly(Which helped me in my military career). If you were an idiot, yea, you died a lot. BUT, if you were intelligent and understood the mechanics, you could be nearly unstoppable. What OSI did is made it so any ****** with down syndrome can succeed in PvP. They catered to the less intelligent.

And there is NO other game like UO in its early years, NONE. There is one coming out by some of the old Dev's who helped make the original (Forgot what its called). There will only be one world, and anyone can attack anyone. PvP won't be item based, and it has a skill system like UO, not levels. I plan on trying that, maybe.

 

[phantus]

In what terms? compared to what?

Ultima was never an RPG in terms of Paper RPG's. It was the original graphic RPG for Apple computers in the early 80's and it ruled for quite awhile (Ultima IV was in my opinion the best of the bunch). Its only early competition came from Wizardry ("Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord" and "Knight of Diamonds"), but Wizardry was only graphical when you were in the dungeon and then it was only wall lines and creature bitmap images. Its next competition came from "The Bard's Tale" which was the first 'First-Person" RPG. BT was quite fun, but it got boring before the end-game scenario.

When Ultima came out, Final Fantasy wasn't even a glint in the eye of its creator. Warcraft didn't show up until the late 90's.

In terms of MMORPG's, UO was the top of the heap from 1997 until EverQuest came out about a year later. It definitely was the most popular and was leaps and bounds better than Meridian or any of the MUD's that were out at that time. It is now relegated to the Has-been pile, but it definitely had its moment of supreme popularity.

What do I think UO needs? I think it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with 21st century graphics. I believe it is time to scrap the old UO and move everyone over to a completely new UO. Maybe the maps would be similar, but the graphic engine would be completely new. They should allow a one-time import of characters and some items, but no everything. They may lose a few hold-outs, but UO will never grow in its current state, so a new game is the only way to keep it going.

*nods*

I thing to add. Before a revamp is finished a new Ultima stand alone game needs to be made and introduced. With *gasp* real advertising.

 

[Locker]

I actually quit when AoS came out. Did my military service. I came back a month ago at a friends request.

As far as being "Ganked by anyone", it was a LOT different then. Today the game is solely based on items and the luck of the draw. Before AoS, I could take on 5 people at a time, and win. Why? Because I could think on my feet, I could form effective strategies on the fly(Which helped me in my military career). If you were an idiot, yea, you died a lot. BUT, if you were intelligent and understood the mechanics, you could be nearly unstoppable. What OSI did is made it so any ****** with down syndrome can succeed in PvP. They catered to the less intelligent.

And there is NO other game like UO in its early years, NONE. There is one coming out by some of the old Dev's who helped make the original (Forgot what its called). There will only be one world, and anyone can attack anyone. PvP won't be item based, and it has a skill system like UO, not levels. I plan on trying that, maybe.

If you don't mind, could you elaborate on what the "early years" were like as far as game mechanics and what changed that jacked it up so much?

Being a new player some of the terms and ideas in this thread have me a bit confused. Not sure what "item based PvP" is or why you could take on five guys before and now you can't? Why PvP used to be for the smart and is now easy for the dumb.

Just trying to educate myself as I am a long time gamer (yes back to Mudding and Drakkar, etc) but very new to UO. I really like it but it seems some of the things which seem natural to me because I'm new (KR client, Trammel, etc) are hated by the vets.

Thanks and peace,

-D

 

[Pickaxe Pete]

If you don't mind, could you elaborate on what the "early years" were like as far as game mechanics and what changed that jacked it up so much?

In the early times, everyone had the same disposable armor and weapons (it was crafted by a GM blacksmith, and was sometimes 'exceptional,' but not always.).

This led to a more even battle than we see today, where the sky is the limit in terms of how much one can spend and how many properties can be packed onto one's armor suit.

When budgets are unlimited, this allows for quite the advantage over newer or returning (or honest) players.

This advantage is a new phenomenon and was mostly enabled by Age of Shadows introducing an array of new item properties (as well as converting existing items to the lower rungs of this system), and item insurance.

Secondly, skills such as Bushido, Necromancy, Chivalry, Spellweaving and Ninjitsu, as well as other, older skills becoming requirements, are also new and creates additional have/have not situations, as well as increased speed of combat due to greater damage levels than before.

It used to be that there was so much room in skill templates that one could be very viable with having two or three different combat types available to him or her. This gave many additional choices for offense or defense without increasing damage levels inappropriately.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

If you don't mind, could you elaborate on what the "early years" were like as far as game mechanics and what changed that jacked it up so much?

Being a new player some of the terms and ideas in this thread have me a bit confused. Not sure what "item based PvP" is or why you could take on five guys before and now you can't? Why PvP used to be for the smart and is now easy for the dumb.

Just trying to educate myself as I am a long time gamer (yes back to Mudding and Drakkar, etc) but very new to UO. I really like it but it seems some of the things which seem natural to me because I'm new (KR client, Trammel, etc) are hated by the vets.

Thanks and peace,

-D

Prior to AoS, items didnt have any special properties. Weapons had limited ones (Only damage, hci, and durability, and they werent very high). There was only one type of leather. There were no such thing as "resists", all spells were the same and your ability to lessen the damage done by them was your skill in magic resist. You could only train skills up to GM. EVERYONE was the same, there were no items that could give you an edge over anyone else. There was no necro, no chivalry, just magery. Its WAY too much to try and explain. Basically, AoS changed EVERYTHING about UO. Before everyone was on equal grounds, not now where some people have an advantage because of their elite items. There was no such thing as item insurance, if you died everything you had was lootable. It took intelligence to succeed.

Example: Before AoS, Mindblast would do MASSIVE damage if you didnt balance your stats (Your stats were maxed out @ 225, balanced would be 90/45/90, unbalanced would be 100/25/100). Basically the farther apart your stats, the more damage it did. So me and a friend were at Yew moongate, (We were in the CoM faction, I had 120+ kill points he had around 60) and a grouo of the guild OPP rushes in, roughly 6 players. We split up, trying to break apart the group. I managed to get 2 warriors on me. I cast feeblemind on one, and followed with explo MB MB (There was also something called the "Fast Cast Technique", which I used perfectly. It wasn't hard to master). My target died. My char was 7x GM Mage/Eval/Med/Wrestling/Resist/Anatomy/Healing, so the entire time I had bandaids going to keep my health up. The 2nd warrior had balanced stats, so MB wasn't an option. So instead, I cast explo, ebolt, waited for casting delay to initiate the fast cast, targeted him, used stun punch to paralyze him, and one more ebolt did the trick. My friend then ran the rest (only 3 had followed him) back my way, where we dispatched them. We both had healing and anat, so we would retreat, pick a target, and return and take him out. Trying to do this nowadays results in instant death. With the weapons now, you can get hit for 50hp, all a dexxer does is run around and spam consecrate weapon and divine fury, and they can be effective. Before, if you just ran around and tried to whack someone you were most likely going to be taking a dirt nap.

Wow, its almost impossible to explain what UO was like before AoS to someone who hasn't experienced it :-/

 

[Ni-]

If you don't mind, could you elaborate on what the "early years" were like as far as game mechanics and what changed that jacked it up so much?

Being a new player some of the terms and ideas in this thread have me a bit confused. Not sure what "item based PvP" is or why you could take on five guys before and now you can't? Why PvP used to be for the smart and is now easy for the dumb.

Just trying to educate myself as I am a long time gamer (yes back to Mudding and Drakkar, etc) but very new to UO. I really like it but it seems some of the things which seem natural to me because I'm new (KR client, Trammel, etc) are hated by the vets.

Thanks and peace,

-D

Well, here's a little background on the current item based combat compared to the old skill based combat. There didn't used to be all these item properties.

This was before: Item Properties, skills able to go above 100, some added skills(Bushido, Ninjitsu, Necromancy, Chivalry, Spell Weaving), the 'safety' of Trammel, Red NPC Healers, Item Insurance, Repair deeds, PoF...

Resisting Spells used to provide all the resist from Magic attacks. Armor used to provide all the resist from Physical attacks, called Armor Rating. The more protection you received from Armor the less you would swing/regen mana/be able to stealth. Mages we alot closer to being Glass Cannons than they are now. You wanted to have good mana regen/stealth/swing fast then you had to go light with your armor. GM Armor could compete with the best Magic Armor available.

GM Weapons(about 20% DI at todays standards) were about 3 step below the best damaging Magic Weapons(about 35% DI), but GMs were alot easier to get.

This caused a more evenly equiped playing field when it came to PvP. Thus, players with higher skill level(this is before above 100 skills) and/or higher level of playing skill would be alot harder to kill. This is opposed to having the best item properties give you the advantage over other people.

When people died, alot of them would purchase new equipment off of Player run vendors, alot of that being GM Armor/Weapons. Stimulating the crafting market. Armor/Weapons needed repair after a while. The lack of repair deeds stimulated more player interaction.

The freedom of PKs caused some people that didn't know eachother to group up and fight back. Again, stimulating player interaction.

The MMO market wasn't as diluted with a whole lot of games either. So alot of the shards were alot more populated than they are now.

That being said, I was never into PvP, throw in the fact that I had a bad connection, I wasn't very excited to leave town. I know I have enjoyed the game alot more with the addition of Trammel. I've actually been able to enjoy the game. Without the introduction of Trammel I am not sure how long I would have kept playing, one way or the other. Maybe I'd be more able to defend & enjoy myself in that ruleset now, but we'll probably never know.

 

[Pawl]

OK i wish people would stop saying UO was fist this and first that.... IT WASN'T.. just had to get that out of my system....


First off Meridian 59 was first online MMORPG! years, YES years before UO. as a UO beta tester, then a Counselor for UO. allmost all (not all but most) of the beta testers and Many of the First UO players were M49 players that came over. thats why we got picked to test UO. and is Still online to this day! , It shut down for a month, then reopen under a old lic in germany then later on all rights were sold, not just the one version. and is still going with people paying to play and still playing. many i still know..


Yes out of all the UO games, think 4 and 5 were the best, I have 1-5 for the apple and all for the PC

why was trammel hated do much. "For me", it distoryed our player run town. most wanted to move...knowing no one would hangout in a pk zone.. They should have open the New land as FEL, not tram .. Did make money off the sell of my vendor house thou, sucker bought it then tram open up few days later and man was he pissed...

UO2 will never go online, cause Richard Garriott aka "Lord British" has most of the rights to it. thats why they took out his NPC in the castle He owns it..about the only thing IN UO that anyone really owns!!! so The dev waste time tring to build 2 versions of UO eveytime they update or come out with a new addon. 2d and 3d.. and they haven't figured out that 3D has been a flop so far...

If the server were split to 2d and 3d only, all you could play was one or the other all the time, no swaping back and forth, what would you pick? 2d or 3d???

 

[Locker]

Hey ya'll,

Thanks very much for all of the legacy UO information. Reading all of this does make me itch to try out the old system.

Are there any shards that still run the old mods/rule set?

Once again thank you all for the information, very interesting read.

Peace,

-D

P.S. I would pick the 3D client for the graphics, the hotbar (with targeting) and the containers that aren't just a big pile of stuff. It's also much smoother in movement for me. That being said I am biased since that is the client I started on. I do have Mondain's Legacy but mostly it's KR for me.

 

[wrekognize]

Before AoS, I could take on 5 people at a time, and win. Why? Because I could think on my feet, I could form effective strategies on the fly(Which helped me in my military career). If you were an idiot, yea, you died a lot. BUT, if you were intelligent and understood the mechanics, you could be nearly unstoppable. What OSI did is made it so any ****** with down syndrome can succeed in PvP. They catered to the less intelligent.

I also enjoyed taking liberty of the template that was more dominate than others back then, until they nerfed my mage so that he could not use the weapon combo, then they made swords/axe a force and so on. There are actually more strategy combinations now than there was then. The issue people now have to tackle is getting the gear in order PVP, which for me was fun in itself. You really don't need much gold any more to put together a suit for any template you'd like to go with. UO is still unlike any game out there. Yes it's item based, along with the skill based system, I find pvp very enjoyable. The game is just as fun and more strategic than ever.


...

 

[SAVATAGE]

Hell i still miss the order - chaos wars that woulr rage from town to town to dungeon to dungeon....... was alot better than factions...

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Here is the thing about Ultima, It is not, and never was one of the more popular RPG's. Go ask people about Final Fantasy, breath of Fire, Warcraft, Warhammer, HOMM, and ask them what they know of the game? I do not know what game they know the most about, but i do know that Ultima is what they/we/us/me know the least about.

If this would have been released as Breath of Fire On Line, you would have the same thing. A Old game, that very few that are playing, actually played the console version. Do a Poll and see.

I would LOVE to see Breath of Fire as an Online Game!

 

[Violence]

To RenaLynne :

The point wasn't to compare 'Ye Ole Days' to "Now" but rather the core of UO back then with what we currently have- which is not so much Ultima really.. or if there is, you have to dig a bit to find it. And if that's the case then where are we headed with the next expansion? Further away or closer..

As to why I stayed, as many stated it remained unique even through AOS.
If I'm an unhappy player right now that's for various other reasons, not really connected to this post.

As for your last question, there are UO players and then there are Ultima players who wished their favourite RPG would become an MMO and got more than they asked for.

Consider this; WOW was so perfectly "turned" into an MMO from a Strategy Game, without losing any core elements of what made it Warcraft. Its players still play Warcraft. It was a huge success. What do we play? Why did UO had to copy from other games or deviate from Ultima for any reason?..

So you can see why I'm curious about SA and the Devs' intentions.

To Wrekognise:

Who would accept "The Flavour Of The Week" gimplate as valid tactics?
And to be honest, gangs from gimplate characters are not tactics either. They are just... gangs. Orks might call it tactics -no offense Ork RPers!- but as ShaunOfPac puts it it requires no personal skill(which translates into many things in UO).

If you can live with handicapping yourself by not adapting and using said gimplates so be it. You play the game and enjoy it, which is cool. I do however argue that it is not the game we had before(which was way cooler), without having to adapt to other people refusing to use anything but gimplates or that it has the same quality.

As for templates made up by skills being a plus, that ended the moment some skill combinations became dominant.

As for items:

There's a reason why there are templates based on items and not the opposite. An example to demonstrate how important items are over skills is that you only need to have 1 suit for all your melee AND archery characters. Unless you haven't got really good items. :loser:

So skills or not, we're actually playing a form of Class system game like WOW only there's 1 dominant class over all the others per week, month, year, expansion or item.
There's no Rock-Paper-Scissors and even skill based systems should be designed with that in mind. UO crossed a thin red line over and over with each expansion regarding this.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

AYE! MORE ULTIMA IN ULTIMA ONLINE!

 

[Kaleb]

Hey ya'll,

Thanks very much for all of the legacy UO information. Reading all of this does make me itch to try out the old system.

Are there any shards that still run the old mods/rule set?

Once again thank you all for the information, very interesting read.

Peace,

-D

P.S. I would pick the 3D client for the graphics, the hotbar (with targeting) and the containers that aren't just a big pile of stuff. It's also much smoother in movement for me. That being said I am biased since that is the client I started on. I do have Mondain's Legacy but mostly it's KR for me.

Yes there are servers out there that host T2A, up to pre aos, some with tram (minus the t2a) some W/O. They do in fact run the old combat item systems tho. Thats about all I can say about them the closest you will get with EA is siege but that has become a shard of the haves and havenots very item dependent.

this is what items were like in the old systems. I play a mage so there is no real need for armor.

 

[Beefybone]

Here is the thing about Ultima, It is not, and never was one of the more popular RPG's. Go ask people about Final Fantasy, breath of Fire, Warcraft, Warhammer, HOMM, and ask them what they know of the game? I do not know what game they know the most about, but i do know that Ultima is what they/we/us/me know the least about.

It's just a generational thing. The Ultima series was already on it's fourth game by the time the NES first came out. Series like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest have evolved into "cutscenes with monster fighting inbetween" over the years, but they started out as basically Japanese ripoffs of the early Ultimas.

But if you think it "never was one of the more popular RPG's" then you are just plain poorly informed, period. It's really nobody else's fault that some people think the history gaming began around 1993.

 

[monnie101]

The reason I think that Ultima wasn't as popular is due to it being on a computer. I mean back then barely anyone owned a computer. They were both expensive and seemingly complicated with dos and memorizing the commands.

Final Fantasy always was a love/hate game. Players like me loved playing RPGs but they were all Japanese RPG Nintendo games. I hated the turn-based fighting in FF. Every time I would run and pray not to randomly run into baddies then you hear the sound and the screen comes on and your in a turn-based fight. I hated turn-based fighting in Final Fantasy. I did like the Arcade Golden Axe game. That was kewl. I absolutely loved American RPGs when I first played them and have since never played Japanese ones except when I'm over my cousins house because he has the PS2 and the latest FFs. I've surprisingly never even tried the FF Online game though I will someday.

 

[RenaLynne]

To RenaLynne :

The point wasn't to compare 'Ye Ole Days' to "Now" but rather the core of UO back then with what we currently have- which is not so much Ultima really.. or if there is, you have to dig a bit to find it. And if that's the case then where are we headed with the next expansion? Further away or closer..

As to why I stayed, as many stated it remained unique even through AOS.
If I'm an unhappy player right now that's for various other reasons, not really connected to this post.

As for your last question, there are UO players and then there are Ultima players who wished their favourite RPG would become an MMO and got more than they asked for.

Consider this; WOW was so perfectly "turned" into an MMO from a Strategy Game, without losing any core elements of what made it Warcraft. Its players still play Warcraft. It was a huge success. What do we play? Why did UO had to copy from other games or deviate from Ultima for any reason?..

So you can see why I'm curious about SA and the Devs' intentions.



Whats an MMO??? Heard this acrynom before but Im not really up on the game tech speak.

 

[Sheridan]

Whats an MMO??? Heard this acrynom before but Im not really up on the game tech speak.

Massively Multiplayer Online (game).

 

[Violence]

So by now noone's against basic questions regarding SA's ambitions.

Since there's no risk for EA here -there would be, if we were asking about SA items and abilities for example- I think if not this, then the next FOF should be all about SA.

I don't mean to preach but why don't we all mail SA only questions during the coming week, and see what we get in the FOF? It's been too long. :bowdown:

 

[Landicine]

I think early UO was very template specific. No matter how clever you were, if you weren't using the template de jour, you usually lost when outnumbered. I used to do pretty well in 1-on-1 duels back then, but I usually lost when outnumbered. Again I wasn't into PvP much in those days despite living near the crossroads, but I still don't think it was some rosy meritocracy. There were some pks you respected because they were good, and then there were the gank squads that outnumbered you. Then there were the cheaters using whatever the cheat program was of the day (UOXtreme I think was the old one).

I'm as grizzled a vet as the next person, but I like the freedom of not always watching your back. I also think that there is still some skill needed to PvP. I pvp on the cheap, and it is amusing beating someone with legendary skills and an uber set with my elder template and discount armor.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Basically, AoS changed EVERYTHING about UO. Before everyone was on equal grounds, not now where some people have an advantage because of their elite items.

Example: Before AoS, Mindblast would do MASSIVE damage if you didnt balance your stats (Your stats were maxed out @ 225, balanced would be 90/45/90, unbalanced would be 100/25/100). Basically the farther apart your stats, the more damage it did. So me and a friend were at Yew moongate, (We were in the CoM faction, I had 120+ kill points he had around 60) and a grouo of the guild OPP rushes in, roughly 6 players. We split up, trying to break apart the group. I managed to get 2 warriors on me. I cast feeblemind on one, and followed with explo MB MB (There was also something called the "Fast Cast Technique", which I used perfectly. It wasn't hard to master). My target died. My char was 7x GM Mage/Eval/Med/Wrestling/Resist/Anatomy/Healing, so the entire time I had bandaids going to keep my health up. The 2nd warrior had balanced stats, so MB wasn't an option. So instead, I cast explo, ebolt, waited for casting delay to initiate the fast cast, targeted him, used stun punch to paralyze him, and one more ebolt did the trick. My friend then ran the rest (only 3 had followed him) back my way, where we dispatched them. We both had healing and anat, so we would retreat, pick a target, and return and take him out. Trying to do this nowadays results in instant death. With the weapons now, you can get hit for 50hp, all a dexxer does is run around and spam consecrate weapon and divine fury, and they can be effective. Before, if you just ran around and tried to whack someone you were most likely going to be taking a dirt nap.

Wow, its almost impossible to explain what UO was like before AoS to someone who hasn't experienced it :-/

Well hate to point out the flaws in your statements... But you start out by saying how everyone was on equal footing... And then proceed to brag about how easy it was for you and your bud to take out a group of players.

Sounds to me your just getting pissy about losing your gimplate.

And then you end by telling everyone that any warrior with chiv and just run around and kick butt with divine fury and consecrate? What did you forget all your strategies and using your mind to PvP? I would love to here from other mages who feel melee templates can easily dispatch them with no skill.

And you final statement should read... "Wow, it's almost impossible to explain what UO was like before AoS to someone who actually reads between the lines"

I liked UO before tram and like it now as well, you learn to adapt and move on, the is no point in whining over spilt milk when the majority wants tram, you just learn to PvP differently... Or you get killed by dexxors <- lol

 

[RenaLynne]

So by now noone's against basic questions regarding SA's ambitions.

Since there's no risk for EA here -there would be, if we were asking about SA items and abilities for example- I think if not this, then the next FOF should be all about SA.

I don't mean to preach but why don't we all mail SA only questions during the coming week, and see what we get in the FOF? It's been too long. :bowdown:

I totally agree with you on this one...I have a feeling it would all be conveniently ignored though. People asked during Town hall and they refused to answer, or give any info at all. Its kinda getting rediculous.

 

[Beefybone]

The reason I think that Ultima wasn't as popular is due to it being on a computer. I mean back then barely anyone owned a computer. They were both expensive and seemingly complicated with dos and memorizing the commands.

No offense, but I can tell you're too young to remember the early eighties. There wasn't exactly a PC in every house like there is today, but there was a thriving and lively home computer market with IBM, Apple, Commodore, Atari, and others all offering inexpensive models. You could walk into any regular toy store or retail store and buy a Commodore 64 for less than what you'd pay for a new gaming console today. And there was lots and lots of software available.

Heck, until the NES came along in the middle of the decade, there was no such thing as a console RPG because none of the consoles could handle a game that large and complicated. And when the NES came out, Origin started porting over Ultimas and selling them to Japan. Those NES Ultima games that were just kind of a footnote over here? Those were huge in Japan.

Here's a link to some info on the Ultima mangas they put out over there in the eighties. I think there was even a pilot for an anime, but I'm not sure. Heck, look at that last one. If you want an idea of how old and far-reaching the Ultima lore was, realize: That "Magincia got blowed up by demons" thing we did in-game last year was a comic book in Japan twenty years ago.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Well hate to point out the flaws in your statements... But you start out by saying how everyone was on equal footing... And then proceed to brag about how easy it was for you and your bud to take out a group of players.

Sounds to me your just getting pissy about losing your gimplate.

And then you end by telling everyone that any warrior with chiv and just run around and kick butt with divine fury and consecrate? What did you forget all your strategies and using your mind to PvP? I would love to here from other mages who feel melee templates can easily dispatch them with no skill.

And you final statement should read... "Wow, it's almost impossible to explain what UO was like before AoS to someone who actually reads between the lines"

I liked UO before tram and like it now as well, you learn to adapt and move on, the is no point in whining over spilt milk when the majority wants tram, you just learn to PvP differently... Or you get killed by dexxors <- lol

The only "gimplate" back then were lumberjackers. I could take on ganks because I understood the mechanics of PvP and you locate and exploit weaknesses in others strategies. Of my 5 characters, 4 were PvP, one was my mule, and I used all of them. I'm not mad about losing my "gimplate", I never had one. I used a wide array of templates, and was unstoppable on each.

Here were my chars skills:

Shaun:
GM Med
GM Mage
GM Eval
GM Resist
GM Wrestle
GM Heal
GM Anat

Leet Banksitter:
GM Mage
GM Eval
GM Med
GM Resist
GM Wrestle
GM Tactics
GM Archery

RoXXoR Shaun (I created this template and was the only one to use it. Most effective warrior template ever back then)
GM Fence
GM Tact
GM Anat
GM Heal
GM Resist
GM Wrestle
GM Magery

Vorogue (Disarm Thief):
GM Mage
GM Med
GM Eval
GM Wrestle
GM Hide
GM Arms Lore (Back then you needed arms lore + wrestling to disarm)
GM Stealing

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Well hate to point out the flaws in your statements... But you start out by saying how everyone was on equal footing... And then proceed to brag about how easy it was for you and your bud to take out a group of players.

Sounds to me your just getting pissy about losing your gimplate.

And then you end by telling everyone that any warrior with chiv and just run around and kick butt with divine fury and consecrate? What did you forget all your strategies and using your mind to PvP? I would love to here from other mages who feel melee templates can easily dispatch them with no skill.

And you final statement should read... "Wow, it's almost impossible to explain what UO was like before AoS to someone who actually reads between the lines"

I liked UO before tram and like it now as well, you learn to adapt and move on, the is no point in whining over spilt milk when the majority wants tram, you just learn to PvP differently... Or you get killed by dexxors <- lol

Oh, and only ONE dexxer has killed me alone, and he truly had a "gimplate". Archer/Tamer with a trained Cu. Hit me with a dismount as I walked by, sicked the mutt on me, and spammed para blow

 

[Locker]

Heck, until the NES came along in the middle of the decade, there was no such thing as a console RPG because none of the consoles could handle a game that large and complicated.

Did you never experience the thrill and glory of "Adventure" on the 2600!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_(Atari_2600)

You can play it here in a browser...

http://technabob.com/blog/2007/03/02/play-the-classic-atari-2600-adventure-in-your-web-browser/

Ok so maybe it was more of an action/adventure game but you need to find keys and you got to slay a dragon. So what if you were a little square with a sword.

Woop!

Peace,

Locker, Class of 1986 <G>

 

[Canucklehead73]

Oh, and only ONE dexxer has killed me alone, and he truly had a "gimplate". Archer/Tamer with a trained Cu. Hit me with a dismount as I walked by, sicked the mutt on me, and spammed para blow

Don't know why but I'll bite... So if only ONE dexxor has ever killed you...

Why did you state that any fighter can be effective with consecrate and divine fury? But they can't kill you? See my point? You say one thing and then say another thing in total contrast...

Me thinks your just arguing to argue... With no real point of fact.

 

[Sir Stain]

I agree. I would like for that personal touch to come back. I spoke to Lord British several times and the pop up envasions were fun. I haven't seen one of those guys appear in their spendid robes for a long long time.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

What do I think UO needs? I think it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with 21st century graphics. I believe it is time to scrap the old UO and move everyone over to a completely new UO. Maybe the maps would be similar, but the graphic engine would be completely new. They should allow a one-time import of characters and some items, but no everything. They may lose a few hold-outs, but UO will never grow in its current state, so a new game is the only way to keep it going.

I have felt that way for a while now. The only difference is that I feel like everything should stay how it is in a sense. When you try to go from 2d to KR even if KR were a finished and polished product you change the game to much. You end up trying to relearn how to play an old game with nothing new but the graphics.

My idea of a new UO would be to take the current UO and rewrite the server side and client side bringing the graphics up to date in higher resolutions while keeping the look of everything looking as close to what it does now. porting over all of what is currently in UO to the new and then allow a grace period in which you can activate your account on the new server before it is wiped. This would allow a smooth migration to a new version of the game without losing up to 11 years of work.

Along with the change many new features such as on the fly perspective changing could be added. Imagine the ability to play in 2D isometric, 3D third person with rotating camera or even 3D over the shoulder along with first person but without changing the client. Simply click the view button and move into that perspective.

This type of change I think I would support. Simply writing a cheap alternate client is not going to gain my attention.

 

[Pawl]

The only "gimplate" back then were lumberjackers. I could take on ganks because I understood the mechanics of PvP and you locate and exploit weaknesses in others strategies. Of my 5 characters, 4 were PvP, one was my mule, and I used all of them. I'm not mad about losing my "gimplate", I never had one. I used a wide array of templates, and was unstoppable on each.

Here were my chars skills:

Shaun:
GM Med
GM Mage
GM Eval
GM Resist
GM Wrestle
GM Heal
GM Anat

Leet Banksitter:
GM Mage
GM Eval
GM Med
GM Resist
GM Wrestle
GM Tactics
GM Archery

RoXXoR Shaun (I created this template and was the only one to use it. Most effective warrior template ever back then)
GM Fence
GM Tact
GM Anat
GM Heal
GM Resist
GM Wrestle
GM Magery

Vorogue (Disarm Thief):
GM Mage
GM Med
GM Eval
GM Wrestle
GM Hide
GM Arms Lore (Back then you needed arms lore + wrestling to disarm)
GM Stealing

Old school, think not! Old scholls was the "Tank Mage". everyone had one, everyone was equal to each other.. before they started adding more skills needed like med, anat, eval, Lumberjackng for axe bonus , ect.

GM mage
GM resist
GM tac
GM sword (or fencing or mace or arch)

GM healing (Not needed but nice to have)
GM hiding (Not needed but nice to have)

and one open to do whatever..

The only 4 you needed, mage, resist, tac, and weapon skill.. The Tank Mage! oh, and having all GM made armour on and GM weapon!! hunted Cookie Monster and his gang on LS. and who on LS could forget "Hope" when t2a came out, hunting her a$$ outside DEL in t2a and orc fort north of del every day. Til him and his gang got banned for using UOX That UO now has built into there game (last target) not even what? 3 months later?....and UOA also has..

Numbers is what counted back then, 1 on 1 winner was one with best connect, GM stuff on, who attacked 2nd not first! you attacked first, and i used aids and pots to heal and saved mana, when you were out of mana then it was my 2nd person trun, unload a FS or EXP then an ebolt and go in swinging..

2 on 1 , 1 died, 2 EXP and 2 Ebolts = dead! all there was to it...
3 on 2, depended on players. and if you could split them up fast.

How many remember the orge lord room, staying behind the tables casting BS.. Was in the all the time with guild mates and allways had a plan if reds came in, all attack the closes one to group, 5 exp = death, and 5 ebolts on 2ndplayer = death. 3rd mostly ran off..if not 5 more eblots to take him out.

 

[Violence]

Well there's still this Town Hall Meeting so if anyone's going they might as well push them a bit with SA questions. Besides what ELSE is there to know? How long will they be talking plants when you go there?
I can see in fact 3 major topics that have not been mentioned for a long time; Weapon rebalance so far and PvP issues, SA and KR status, PvM fun factor and gold/loot concerns.

Logically they'd dodge "What items will you give us for pre-ordering?" but anything regarding SA's current state and estimated Beta testing, goals, how you'll be able to get the game, 2D compatibility etc should be answered.

It's a bit late to just 'throw us a bone' like before saying "Soon." or "Working on it.". We at least DESERVE to be told if it's about to be cancelled.. if it hasn't been already, mind you.
Saying we practically don't "deserve" anything because of the TOS and other blah-blah documents is just asking for people to get really dissappointed at this moment.

On another note and not-so off topic, what another crappy FOF.. The title of it is complete mockery and it feels like they're being sarcastic really.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Don't know why but I'll bite... So if only ONE dexxor has ever killed you...

Why did you state that any fighter can be effective with consecrate and divine fury? But they can't kill you? See my point? You say one thing and then say another thing in total contrast...

Me thinks your just arguing to argue... With no real point of fact.

Go to yew moongate on Pac, you will see 80% of the chars there are chiv gimps, and they usually travel in packs. When did I ever complain about getting killed by them, BTW?


And yes, T2A was all about sword/tact mage. Precast, equip hally, and whack with insta hit. And yes, you could take on superior numbers, it just took a lot more. If ou had 2 tanks on you, you had to keep g-heal up, and wait for them to insta hit you and heal through. The templates I listed before that were after the introduction of UO:R, and what I left them as when I quit before AoS. Prior to that I had 2 sword/tact mages, and a mule.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Old school, think not! Old scholls was the "Tank Mage". everyone had one, everyone was equal to each other.. before they started adding more skills needed like med, anat, eval, Lumberjackng for axe bonus , ect.

GM mage
GM resist
GM tac
GM sword (or fencing or mace or arch)

GM healing (Not needed but nice to have)
GM hiding (Not needed but nice to have)

and one open to do whatever..

The only 4 you needed, mage, resist, tac, and weapon skill.. The Tank Mage! oh, and having all GM made armour on and GM weapon!! hunted Cookie Monster and his gang on LS. and who on LS could forget "Hope" when t2a came out, hunting her a$$ outside DEL in t2a and orc fort north of del every day. Til him and his gang got banned for using UOX That UO now has built into there game (last target) not even what? 3 months later?....and UOA also has..

Numbers is what counted back then, 1 on 1 winner was one with best connect, GM stuff on, who attacked 2nd not first! you attacked first, and i used aids and pots to heal and saved mana, when you were out of mana then it was my 2nd person trun, unload a FS or EXP then an ebolt and go in swinging..

2 on 1 , 1 died, 2 EXP and 2 Ebolts = dead! all there was to it...
3 on 2, depended on players. and if you could split them up fast.

How many remember the orge lord room, staying behind the tables casting BS.. Was in the all the time with guild mates and allways had a plan if reds came in, all attack the closes one to group, 5 exp = death, and 5 ebolts on 2ndplayer = death. 3rd mostly ran off..if not 5 more eblots to take him out.

My favorite PK spot was the Moonglow graveyard. There were always tons of gimps there with silver weaps, waiting for the liches to spawn. Hell, there is probably nobody here who will remember this, but at the beginning there was tents EVERYWHERE. A great tactic was to get a friend to hide in a single path lane on the way to town, and when someone would run through you they would lose stamina and get stuck. Back then nobody carried pots, so they would be easy pickings.