Scrolls vs. no scrolls for pets

[SouthPaw]

My in game character is poor and scrolls are insanely high priced on Pacific. I saved training points on my pre-patch pets for scrolls, and most of my other pets as well, but I'm guessing most of them will never be scrolled.

Question is, how much more effective are skills at 120 instead of 100? How are magic skills like magery or chiv affected? I thought pets never fizzle so how is higher than 100 skill helpful with magics?

If I don't scroll a pet is it going to be super gimped?

 

[Khaelor]

Because Chivalry is a damage mod, a 120 Chivalry scroll allows enemy of one to give an additional .82 to damage.

Most magery spells damage are based off of Eval, unless you go Master Magery. However heal is based off magery skill.

UO for the most part is a linear game.

Take med and focus scrolls (the following assumes 370 int and 30 MR (attribute)):

Mana Recovery Rate Per Minute:
100 Med Focus: 236.2
105 Med Focus: 240.9 (4.7 change from previous)
110 Med Focus: 245.6 (4.7 change from previous)
115 Med Focus: 250.3 (4.7 change from previous)
120 Med Focus: 255 (4.7 change from previous)

A quick look at Anatomy and Tactic scrolls reveal the same:

If you look at High end damage it's 2 damage each time (low end damage is a bit over 1 each time, due to rounding you have the jump from 106 to 108 on 105 to 110 scrolls)

Certain skills get a bonus from achieving 100, so if your pet dies you will not get that bonus again until the pet reaches 100 skill again.

For Tactics Skill Levels < 100.0
Tactics Damage Bonus = Skill Level/1.6
For Tactics Skill Levels >= 100.0
Tactics Damage Bonus = Skill Level/1.6 + 6.25

If one was to invest in scrolls, I would say invest in Wrestling and Chivarly scrolls, the highest you can get.
Wrestling is your chance to hit/miss and the enemies change to hit/miss on your pet. We put 120 wrestling on every pet with the exception of perhaps low level spawn clearers

 

[It Lives]

You can safely say that your pets are better than they used to be even with out the scrolls. There are a few critters out there that come with natural over caps in skills that can be trained and work well. You should save up and get your mastery's 1-3 before scrolls if you don't already.

 

[SouthPaw]

Seems to me that there is only a small improvement with scrolls. We're only looking at an extra 20 mana regen per minute max. I'd like to know the figures for chance to hit or be hit with regards to wrestling skill. I'm sure that's a lot more complicated because it depends on what the pet is fighting.

I searched for legendary chiv scroll last night and the cheapest one was asking for 7 mill; and you're telling me it's only going to do an extra 0.82 to damage?
Seems like there's no point in magery scrolls, but eval int will increase damage.

 

[Khaelor]

I searched for legendary chiv scroll last night and the cheapest one was asking for 7 mill; and you're telling me it's only going to do an extra 0.82 to damage?
Seems like there's no point in magery scrolls, but eval int will increase damage.

Say a pet hits a no resist target for 150, with 120 Chiv and EoO that pet will now hit for 273 (top end of range) on that same target (damage is multiplied by 1.82)
Say a pet hits a no resist target for 150, with a 1.75 EoO multiplier that pet would now hit that target for 262 (again top end of range.

The lower the Chivalry, the lower the multiplier.

 

[SouthPaw]

So the damage difference from 100 chiv to 120 chiv is only (273-262) 11 extra damage?

Does higher skill have any effect on which spells the pet chooses to cast?

To fully legendary scroll a pet typically takes 600 TP, 620 if the pet has healing. Could be less if non magical.

Could use that to get an extra 200 more HP or 1200 mana/int instead.

To me these numbers you guys are telling me are relatively small differences that seems hard to justify.

 

[Khaelor]

So the damage difference from 100 chiv to 120 chiv is only (273-262) 11 extra damage?

That was an example, of a lower multipler. The multipler for 100 Chiv is 0.64 vs 0.82 for 120.

So the damage difference from 100 chiv to 120 chiv is only (273-262) 11 extra damage?

Does higher skill have any effect on which spells the pet chooses to cast?

To fully legendary scroll a pet typically takes 600 TP, 620 if the pet has healing. Could be less if non magical.

Could use that to get an extra 200 more HP or 1200 mana/int instead.

To me these numbers you guys are telling me are relatively small differences that seems hard to justify.

That is just an example of the Chiv multiplier, not the difference between 100 and 120.
I'm at work so won't be able to give any in depth answers til later, but also.

Spelllweaving is another where you would want it to be 120 as the pets spellweaving focus is determined by the level of Spellweaving, with a 6 focus at 120.

And level of a skill can determine what they cast.

 

[Basara]

With some skills, there is an additional bonus that kicks in at 100 (if the same bonuses apply for pets as for PCs). Anatomy and Tactics are two of them. So, the difference between 99.9 and 100.0 is much greater than the difference between 100.0 and 100.1. The Anatomy bonus at GM is another 5% added to the existing linear formula of skill%/2. The Tactics bonus is stated above in an earlier post (6.25%).

For skills like those, you may not want to invest in the 120s, but at least getting and using 105s for these is a good idea, as having that extra 5 skill points means you won't potentially lose as much as an 11.25% bonus when your pet dies and drops 0.1 skill, until it gains them back.

 

[Khyro]

I'd like to know the figures for chance to hit or be hit with regards to wrestling skill. I'm sure that's a lot more complicated because it depends on what the pet is fighting.

It gets very complicated and very much depends on what you are fighting.

To get very basic:

• 120 Wrestling vs 120 Wrestling is a 50% chance to hit the target (and a 50% chance for your target to hit/miss your pet).
• 100 Wrestling vs 120 Wrestling - Your pet has a 42% chance of hitting and a 58% chance of being hit.
• 100 Wrestling vs 140 Wrestling - Your pet has a 37% chance of hitting and a 63% chance of being hit.
• 120 Wrestling vs 140 Wrestling - Your pet has a 43% chance of hitting and a 57% chance of being hit.

Enemies, especially bosses, often come with extremely high wrestling.

The hit chance will get further complicated with HCI and DCI. Pet's, as far as we can tell, have a neutral HCI (0%). It's pretty impossible to tell what the DCI is of mobs, as that doesn't show in the lore page.

After the Hit/Miss calculation, you then get to deal with the "Defend" calculation, which is the chance to Block/Parry the attack. You can't do much to counter this, and some mobs definitely have very high parry (Ozymandias comes to mind).

Honestly, after Base Damage, Wrestling is probably the most important stat in determining your pet's damage.

So the damage difference from 100 chiv to 120 chiv is only (273-262) 11 extra damage?

Does higher skill have any effect on which spells the pet chooses to cast?

To fully legendary scroll a pet typically takes 600 TP, 620 if the pet has healing. Could be less if non magical.

Could use that to get an extra 200 more HP or 1200 mana/int instead.

To me these numbers you guys are telling me are relatively small differences that seems hard to justify.

It's all about min/maxing and how much it matters to you. Chivalry is a damage modifier for your base damage (after STR is applied to it), so the 182% damage you are doing from 120 EoO makes a pretty big difference. At 100 Chiv, EoO will give a 0.64 modifier (or you will be doing 164% base damage). I think 110 or 115 Chiv is perfectly acceptable if you cannot afford a 120 chiv scroll.

The same goes for the other scrolls you apply to your pet. You may look at the base damage difference between scrolls applied and see 105-144 with no scrolls and 110-152 with scrolls, but remember those numbers will then get multiplied by the EoO multiplier. Numbers in UO aren't very grand to begin with compared to other games (characters have 150 attribute limits, 150 health cap, etc). So 5-8 damage may not seem like much, but it can definitely make a difference.

But in the end, it just goes back to min/maxing. You can definitely have a successful pet without scrolls. Will they be more successful with scrolls? Certainly. It just depends how much you are willing to invest. I have plenty of pets with 110 scrolls, or a mix of lesser scrolls. I think what @Basara said above about 105's is definitely a good point. Going with 105's will give you a death buffer so you don't lose your GM bonuses on skills.

In the end, like @Khaelor said above, if you were going to go with any scrolls, I would definitely pick Wrestling and Magical. For a Magery pet, personally I would favor Eval Intel over Magery if I had to pick 1 scroll only.

 

[SouthPaw]

Thanks for all the info people!

 

[UOLAPlayer]

From what I have seen in game, a scrolled pet will do the same thing much easier and faster, so I think there is a significant and worthwhile difference.

That being said, I consider myself a "hobbyist" grade player, not a "pro" grade. So, I don't have 50 full sets of 120 scrolls sitting around in my storage castle and 1 billion platinum to buy whatever I fancy.

I'm planning to try doing champ spawns, both solo and with others. If that doesn't work out, the way I've been doing things so far is to trade for things. Also, the astonishing prices seem like part of the typical boom (and bust) cycle of the latest new thing. So it's a great time to sell extra scrolls.

Another thing to consider is naturally overcapped pets. I know Fire Steed spawns with 120 Resist, so when it is tamed, you get 108. Sort of a poor man's scroll. Another pet that does that is the lesser hiryu, with Wrestle and in the info sheet for it, it says Tactics as well, but I haven't seen it. There are probably some other useful pets that have over GM skills high enough that they will be retained after taming. Maybe someone will mention some other good ones. Unfortunately Cu and Nightmare don't, for skills.

 

[Khaelor]

From what I have seen in game, a scrolled pet will do the same thing much easier and faster, so I think there is a significant and worthwhile difference.

That being said, I consider myself a "hobbyist" grade player, not a "pro" grade. So, I don't have 50 full sets of 120 scrolls sitting around in my storage castle and 1 billion platinum to buy whatever I fancy.

There are probably some other useful pets that have over GM skills high enough that they will be retained after taming. Maybe someone will mention some other good ones. Unfortunately Cu and Nightmare don't, for skills.

Well, that ends up being big difference. Do you want to kill something in three minutes or four? Four or five? every reduction in med/focus, magic scroll, anat/tactics and it chips away at the dps the pet can do. So you end up paying with time. Again, the wrestling scroll can make the largest difference. A missed hit is no dps.

I don't think any tamer has 50 full sets laying around these days. Maybe when the patch first came out, but many were wasted learning the system.

One of the best poor mans pet is the Cold drake. You can find wrestling on those upwards of 115 and tactics can be overcapped at 120-126. That's 50 million saved right there. They also have access to a full range of magics. Another, if you could find it might be the 4 slot dragon.

Then you have animals who get lesser overcaps, skree (wrestling), Hiryu.

 

[Pawain]

This advice is for pets you can go out and tame anytime. Use 120s on things you cant.

GM skill kills more than a GD did. But the 100 HP is no where near the worth of scrolls over the long run.

Go to test center with a weapon skill and hold a weapon and change your stats to 120 and reduce a skill in steps of 5 and see the damage drop. You can see the differences between the levels on Anat Tactics and weapon skill.
A wrestling 120 is the biggest difference. Then you dont see a lot of difference 115 tactics and anatomy. Also note that the strength you have and the strength a pet has is quite different. 2 more damage is used with str and used in Chiv damages. Im sure the exact amount is posted on the chalkboard above.

My advice is to get the largest wrestling scroll you can and then do 110s on Tactics and Anatomy.
Parry is also one of the skills that when goes up and makes a difference. Get the highest you can. Meditation and Focus are Important but 110 is fine.


Why do we put 120s on our pets? Because we know how to build them correctly and had room for scrolls and we have them. Every player is trying to get the best suit and the best weapon. Our pets are our friends and our weapons. Why would you not want the best weapon? I bet your pet will love the taste of those scrolls. He will show you by chomping down your enemies.

Somehow the new players on LS have more 120 scrolls on pets than I do after just a month. There must be a way for someone to get them.

That Math lesson above was fun and informative. Wasnt it.

Thanks K and K.

They will also help you if you PM them. Build more good pets!

 

[Tabby Kapak]

Two pets that spring to mind for overcapped wrestling are the Frost Mite and the Saurosaurus, although they of course don't reach the GD levels. For Frost Mites the highest we have seen (wild) was 119.9 (although the highest 2 slotter was 117.1), while for Sauros it was 129.6. The Sauros also can have at least 119.8 Tactics, and both Frost Mite and Sauros can reach 125 Focus at least. Not quite 120s, but it goes a long way for poor players? Also it saves a lot of points for those who do scroll to 120.

 

[Pawain]

From what I have seen in game, a scrolled pet will do the same thing much easier and faster, so I think there is a significant and worthwhile difference.

Well, that ends up being big difference. Do you want to kill something in three minutes or four? Four or five? every reduction in med/focus, magic scroll, anat/tactics and it chips away at the dps the pet can do. So you end up paying with time. Again, the wrestling scroll can make the largest difference. A missed hit is no dps.

Best answers.

Your pet is going to be your lifelong friend and killing machine.

We went from 5 of us with untrained pets pounding on Navrey and calling in a dexxer to kill her when we were done so we could get another set of gains, to being able to kill her with 2 in less than a whisper. Or solo if you use the rocks. Scrolls and magics make a difference.

Use what you have. Save points or make a new pet when you get scrolls.

Another argument we have every NOOB cycle.

 

[Pawain]

And OMG somebody here would explode if he saw a PP mare with 110 scrolls. I did not mean put 110s on Banes, PP critters or any pet you cant just go out and get another.

 

[Khyro]

And OMG somebody here would explode if he saw a PP mare with 110 scrolls. I did not mean put 110s on Banes, PP critters or any pet you cant just go out and get another.

You can put 110's on Legacies and Banes, just make sure to leave enough unspent points to give them 120's at some point in the future (whether its you, or someone you sell the pet to)

 

[Pawain]

You can put 110's on Legacies and Banes, just make sure to leave enough unspent points to give them 120's at some point in the future (whether its you, or someone you sell the pet to)

That red button is so big. I wont advise that. The other K would delete ME.

Professionals only.

Plus I might not be the only person that plays after Margarita Night.

 

[Khyro]

That red button is so big. I wont advise that. The other K would delete ME.

Professionals only.

It's ok, they may still delete you regardless~

 

[railshot]

Arguably (dependng on template), wrestling and tactics are the most important damage dealers. One way to save money is to use a pet that can have naturally overcapped Wrest and/or Tact. One such pet is a frost drake. You can keep farming them until you find a good one. Chiv is relatively cheap and a 115 Chiv should be really cheap, so you should be able to add that one on top. And this should beat any GM only pet.
I think I have a drake with 120 Wrest. You are welcome to it if you don't find anything better.

 

[UOLAPlayer]

Best answers.

Your pet is going to be your lifelong friend and killing machine.

We went from 5 of us with untrained pets pounding on Navrey and calling in a dexxer to kill her when we were done so we could get another set of gains, to being able to kill her with 2 in less than a whisper. Or solo if you use the rocks. Scrolls and magics make a difference.

Use what you have. Save points or make a new pet when you get scrolls.

Another argument we have every NOOB cycle.

I wish I had known this, I've been using Navery as one of my test beds, and also with the return and shard change, I don't have the 15 mil to get a tangle, so I usually go there and solo it. I always thought this was a solo hunt with the new system. I've also found it to be a good dividing line on if your build is good or not. If you don't lose connection, but for some reason your pet dies, it's not a good build. A 4 or 5 slot pet should be able to kill Navery. I've always used ridables, because it's super easy to just run down there. AI/Chiv, AI,Mortal Strike/Chiv, and AI, Feint/Chiv Fire Steeds, AI/Magery Nightmare, and AI/Magic Unicorn and AI/Chiv Unicorn. Unicorn was weak sauce, and I junked them. The AI/Magery Nightmare was super solid, and lately I'm happy with the AI, Feint/Chiv Fire Steed, but it was a first try at it, and you end up tight on your points budget because of the cost of Feint. I'll probably more carefully select a new tame, then rebuild it. It's a keeper build, but I still need to fiddle with it a bit to be happy with the points. (Added Note: My Template is Discord Tamer, Discord really matters on Navery.)

When I get my chance at the DeLorean, I'm going to go back and buy all your Wrestling 120's for 50k It hurts a little to think of all the 110 Wrestle scrolls that got tossed out on the bank floor too.

 

[Pawain]

I wish I had known this, I've been using Navery as one of my test beds,

She is a good test. Sometimes you get tossed and cant get back in time on a weak pet. You can tell from her that some pets with the same build just seem more squishy than others. She basically brought the tamers together on LS and we take NOOBs there and the tamer community keeps growing.

She is very busy on LS.

It hurts a little to think of all the 110 Wrestle scrolls that got tossed out on the bank floor too.

I had a bank full. When I would go to Atlantic I would pick em all up. I cant stop grabbing stuff and eating ground food. But it worked well. At least 5 pets were built from scraps and my immune system is great. I even have stacks of ore in the bank there that I grabbed and will never use.

 

[Khaelor]

AI/Chiv, AI,Mortal Strike/Chiv, and AI, Feint/Chiv Fire Steeds, AI/Magery Nightmare, and AI/Magic Unicorn and AI/Chiv Unicorn. Unicorn was weak sauce, and I junked them. The AI/Magery Nightmare was super solid, and lately I'm happy with the AI, Feint/Chiv Fire Steed, but it was a first try at it, and you end up tight on your points budget because of the cost of Feint.

Do you not heal? Vet? Magery? Run bard songs? I'm asking because I am trying to understand your testing methods and what you are or aren't doing in your tests. Are these pets leveled to 5? Any scrolls? I'm a bit dumbfounded by your thoughts on Unicorns. Especially if you discord Navery or are your tests without discording? I'm curious as to how you tried to build them. I used a aoe magic unicorn at Sorc Dungeon, and it would live after all the CU were dead, and that's in rooms with paragon balrons and 20 other things. I also use AI/Chiv unicorns and a couple other Uni specs all the time for difficult content, some only have 400-500 health but they dont have a problem surviving. They are actually rather powerful when used right.

 

[metalabyss]

I don't know if 2mil for a 110 wrestling is expensive, I only know it is almost all the gold in my bank.

 

[SouthPaw]

railshot, I want that drake! You'll see me in game most nights.

 

[UOLAPlayer]

Do you not heal? Vet? Magery? Run bard songs? I'm asking because I am trying to understand your testing methods and what you are or aren't doing in your tests. Are these pets leveled to 5? Any scrolls? I'm a bit dumbfounded by your thoughts on Unicorns. Especially if you discord Navery or are your tests without discording? I'm curious as to how you tried to build them. I used a aoe magic unicorn at Sorc Dungeon, and it would live after all the CU were dead, and that's in rooms with paragon balrons and 20 other things. I also use AI/Chiv unicorns and a couple other Uni specs all the time for difficult content, some only have 400-500 health but they dont have a problem surviving. They are actually rather powerful when used right.

I'm using Discord in all cases, because of the template of the character. It's actually a very cheap template to run, since you can discord Navery with an exp instrument. Still wearing jewelry with Discord on it to get to 120. I don't run any bard songs due to low level gear. (Side Note: You can use your bard to easily get you Mastery Books for your other characters or to give away/vendor.)

Since I'm not using stone shoes, the pet has to be able to survive the short period of time you are webbed. I also don't drop the stones on Navery, just due to not being able to run around to all 3 buttons in time.

No scrolls, since these are all junker/test pets. I'll select a fire steed with over 105 native resist, since it doesn't take many to spawn before you find them, but otherwise these are all GM Pets. They are trained up GM Wrestle/Tactics with usually Parry in the 70's and Chiv around 70 by the time they get there. I've taken them there at both level 4 and, of course, level 5. Resist, I haven't been training, although honestly, I should modify my pet training to GM it as well, but it is a little more grinding than I want to do right now.

I haven't use AOE on any pet outside of test center(Anniversary Horse and Fire Beetle), so I haven't really gotten a good take for how much it helps in a solo fight like Navery.

The Unicorns, with those two basic builds(AI/Chiv, AI/Magery), just didn't do the same rate of damage as the Fire Steeds and the Nightmares. They were also the weakest of the 3 in terms of taking damage.

One disappointment/learning was that I thought Mortal Strike would do more in terms of stopping the endless healing at the end, but it really didn't make much, if any practical difference. I'd be curious your thoughts on Mortal Strike. I've basically abandoned it for now, as a result of its lack of performance, from my limited trial of it.

 

[UOLAPlayer]

... I cant stop grabbing stuff and eating ground food. ....

So you were that guy who ate people's ground ham, back when Create Food would spawn them that way? lol

I know there was a phase where people would lethal poison food and drop it at the bank too. I saw a few people do the chicken run and die that way. lol

 

[Pawain]

I don't know if 2mil for a 110 wrestling is expensive, I only know it is almost all the gold in my bank.

only 850 - 900k on Atl right now. The prices fluctuate or K buys them all. Have to check for a few days and grab em when cheaper.

 

[metalabyss]

only 850 - 900k on Atl right now. The prices fluctuate or K buys them all. Have to check for a few days and grab em when cheaper.

It has been on the vendor for a few weeks already. There are only a few vendors selling scrolls on Pacific and they refill slowly.

 

[SouthPaw]

Is it possible for a solo tamer to farm scrolls? Where?

 

[Pawain]

Is it possible for a solo tamer to farm scrolls? Where?

The random spawns all over T2A. Champion Spawns – Ultima Online

Some are hard to get to some easier. Or you can do Rikki and see what happens. Look here to see what the spawn is by looking at the 1st lvl stuff. Champion Spawns - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia We go to another if its Semidar. Spiders not fun either.

You can practice at the Ilsh Oaks spawn and see if you can do one alone.

 

[Pawain]

Humilty Spawn is also easy to get to and the spawns are random like T2A.

 

[SouthPaw]

I thought only the fel spawns gave scrolls though?

 

[Pawain]

I thought only the fel spawns gave scrolls though?

Yes, but you can see if you can do a spawn at humility and if you die you can revive quick and dont have to worry about PKs. You get a gold shower also. A test run.

 

[UOLAPlayer]

Is it possible for a solo tamer to farm scrolls? Where?

Like Pawain mentions, T2A. That's my main thought on where, for solo and at my own time champ spawns. I tried it on the dead shard I am moving from, but got to about 7 or 8 (Red) candles (Not sure how many Whites I had when I stalled out) and had problems progressing on the first level. The low level spawn was too scattered to keep up a good kill rate. I still think this can be solved with a pet design that includes AOE, but have been working on moving (re-making chars, getting geared up) on Pacific to see if I like it there better, instead of pursuing that design. I'm thinking AOE + FWW, to draw in and kill at the max rate, but have not proven it out personally, so it's just design plans/speculation at this point. I still would not be sure if it would be able to make it through the caster level of the spawn and seal the deal with the Champ by staying on target in that kind of end of champ spawn situation.

I'm moving/planning to reside on Pacific, @metalabyss and @railshot are there. It's not quite the great kabal that @Pawain has on LS, but may provide the much easier/faster circumstances of doing a spawn. Plus people can come post their kill shots of tamers here if it doesn't quite go as planned. I also haven't tried to see if they will just flat kill you/drive you off or let you join in Fel Despise, or if there are times when you have a good chance of being able to finish Barracoon there. I don't know the guilds on Pacific well enough yet. If it's vacant, or there is a cooperative group, that would be the easiest place, imo, but also the most likely place to get raided or pk'ed. Even if you got pk'ed some times or driven off, it still might be worth it, if you're getting enough scrolls home and in the bank and you vote "Don't Care" on typical feltard trash talk. You probably know, but don't forget tribal paint if you do Barracoon.

If you do a spawn in Illishar(sp?), it will help because you can get to full Valor, then pop a spawn in Fel T2A or advance it at a strategic time for you. After that, I would still do my pet design testing in Fel T2A, unless you came under frequent pk attack. Plus, you can get 105's infrequently while progressing the spawn, unless they have changed it.

Another good option is to see if you can trade something. Ask around, that was how I got the scrolls to make my tamer. The tamers on Pacific seem friendly, so if you asked someone directly, they might be more willing to give you a deal, just for good will feelings and relationship building. Even 2 or 3 110's would make you a better "go to" pet than all GM skills.

Really, the best way is just have @Pawain and @Khaelor go to one of their storage castles full of scrolls then use their shield tokens to bring you a few sets. I think they just don't want to take away your sense of accomplishment tho...

 

[SouthPaw]

I'm on pacific and in guild with railshot. I don't know who metalabyss's in game character is. Pacific is pretty slow most of the time. It's rare that I see anyone who isn't in our guild; makes me wonder what the odds are on getting PK'd with low population.

 

[Khaelor]

No scrolls, since these are all junker/test pets. I'll select a fire steed with over 105 native resist, since it doesn't take many to spawn before you find them, but otherwise these are all GM Pets. They are trained up GM Wrestle/Tactics with usually Parry in the 70's and Chiv around 70 by the time they get there. I've taken them there at both level 4 and, of course, level 5. Resist, I haven't been training, although honestly, I should modify my pet training to GM it as well, but it is a little more grinding than I want to do right now.

Just tossing your pet in the middle of Haven surrounded by spellbinders will cap both the Resist and Parry very quickly.
Chivalry at 70 is a ghost of what it is on an animal at 100 or 120. But, of course, it takes time.

The Unicorns, with those two basic builds(AI/Chiv, AI/Magery), just didn't do the same rate of damage as the Fire Steeds and the Nightmares. They were also the weakest of the 3 in terms of taking damage.

Unicorns will always be outpreformed by a fire based creature at Navery as fire is Navrey's lowest resist. At high levels of chivalry, a Fire Steed with AI will out DPS a Fire Beetle with Rune Corruption.

Animals now are like weapons for a Sampire. You have to match the animal to the encounters weak resists for the best performance, spec also plays a part in that.

 

[Pawain]

I'm on pacific and in guild with railshot. I don't know who metalabyss's in game character is. Pacific is pretty slow most of the time. It's rare that I see anyone who isn't in our guild; makes me wonder what the odds are on getting PK'd with low population.

The 3 of you together can do a spawn and res as needed. If you do not hear players yelling in chat then you dont have anybody raiding. Go do rikki.

 

[metalabyss]

I am wondering if I wanted to do a spawn. I aslo doubt how long do I need to prepare for it if I really want to do so since I have left for 13 years and come back for just a month and something.

 

[Pawain]

Dump all the stuff out of your pack and go for it. Or practice at Humility. 3 Tamers can do a spawn. 2 scrolls each in Fel.

 

[Khaelor]

If you do a spawn in Illishar(sp?), it will help because you can get to full Valor, then pop a spawn in Fel T2A or advance it at a strategic time for you. After that, I would still do my pet design testing in Fel T2A, unless you came under frequent pk attack. Plus, you can get 105's infrequently while progressing the spawn, unless they have changed it.

Another good option is to see if you can trade something. Ask around, that was how I got the scrolls to make my tamer. The tamers on Pacific seem friendly, so if you asked someone directly, they might be more willing to give you a deal, just for good will feelings and relationship building. Even 2 or 3 110's would make you a better "go to" pet than all GM skills.

Really, the best way is just have @Pawain and @Khaelor go to one of their storage castles full of scrolls then use their shield tokens to bring you a few sets. I think they just don't want to take away your sense of accomplishment tho...

Just a couple things. A bard, unfortunately, will clear a spawn much slower than a mage, since you are reliant on your pet. A GOO/FWW pet tends to work well, or a poison breath/fww (if they aren't resistant to poison). But then the boss will be much slower. A spellweave or necro tamer will do a majority of the kill at the spawn and use the pet for the last tier or two and the boss.

On our server, people do spawns often. Speaking from my guilds experience, we have not been raided in a year and the one time we were it was Rikktor. We usually solo or duo the spawns. One thing, if you can swing it, is to have a protector for double the scrolls. It helps.

As for scrolls, getting in a good alliance helps also, if you can. Our alliance will give away scrolls to alliance mates. Friendly players/alliance want returning players to succeed. If I see a returning tamer on our main server and we chat it up, I give them a set of 110s That way they can least get 1 decent pet and they dont have to worry about finding the scrolls or money.

I came back to the game after an almost year break right when the taming patch hit. I didn't have a stockpile of scrolls, unfortunately, unless they were macing scrolls~ I do have access to shield tokens though and do hit our main server, pacific, ls, catskills and atlantic. We offer to transfer stuff for those that need it.

I like @Pawain's suggestion of you Pac guys getting together and owning some spawns. Get those scrolls for those pets!

 

[railshot]

I'm on pacific and in guild with railshot. I don't know who metalabyss's in game character is. Pacific is pretty slow most of the time. It's rare that I see anyone who isn't in our guild; makes me wonder what the odds are on getting PK'd with low population.

Oh, don't worry you'll get PKed if you try to spawn.

 

[Khaelor]

Oh, don't worry you'll get PKed if you try to spawn.

Is it bad on Pacific?

 

[metalabyss]

There is another problem to me which is I am living on the opposite site from you guys, our golden time(the night) is different.

And of course I am running much more slower.

 

[railshot]

Is it bad on Pacific?

From what I understand it's about the same everywhere. It's the same group of people with PvP chars on multiple shards who monitor the altars. You can get away with finishing a spawn here and there, but more often as not, you'll get raided. I work for a living, so my play time is during evenings. And yeah, it does not matter which altar, or how fast you are.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Say a pet hits a no resist target for 150, with 120 Chiv and EoO that pet will now hit for 273 (top end of range) on that same target (damage is multiplied by 1.82)
Say a pet hits a no resist target for 150, with a 1.75 EoO multiplier that pet would now hit that target for 262 (again top end of range.

The lower the Chivalry, the lower the multiplier.

Don't forget, it's not only EoO that acts as a Damage Modifier, but also Con Wep at high Chiv. Con Wep gives +5% Damage Modifier at GM Chiv, and +15% Damage Modifier at 120 Chiv.

Two pets that spring to mind for overcapped wrestling are the Frost Mite and the Saurosaurus, although they of course don't reach the GD levels. For Frost Mites the highest we have seen (wild) was 119.9 (although the highest 2 slotter was 117.1), while for Sauros it was 129.6. The Sauros also can have at least 119.8 Tactics, and both Frost Mite and Sauros can reach 125 Focus at least. Not quite 120s, but it goes a long way for poor players? Also it saves a lot of points for those who do scroll to 120.

Saurosaurus can also spawn with up to 85 Physical and 90 Fire Resist, which makes them particularly tanky against a lot of stuff (they take half the Fire damage that a pet with 80 Fire resist does). Especially considering their Life Leech.

Do you not heal? Vet? Magery? Run bard songs? I'm asking because I am trying to understand your testing methods and what you are or aren't doing in your tests. Are these pets leveled to 5? Any scrolls? I'm a bit dumbfounded by your thoughts on Unicorns. Especially if you discord Navery or are your tests without discording? I'm curious as to how you tried to build them. I used a aoe magic unicorn at Sorc Dungeon, and it would live after all the CU were dead, and that's in rooms with paragon balrons and 20 other things. I also use AI/Chiv unicorns and a couple other Uni specs all the time for difficult content, some only have 400-500 health but they dont have a problem surviving. They are actually rather powerful when used right.

Yep. Unicorns only know Magery at first, so you can easily switch them to Chiv and give them just AI after that, and watch them spam AI pretty hard. The Cu will often times use that pathetic Bleed Attack instead of AI, which means less DPS. Plus the Unicorn is completely immune to Poison status. Bad thing about the Unicorn? You have to be a Female char to tame/ride one (although not to own one).

The Unicorns, with those two basic builds(AI/Chiv, AI/Magery), just didn't do the same rate of damage as the Fire Steeds and the Nightmares. They were also the weakest of the 3 in terms of taking damage.

The Chiv/AI Unicorn should be pumping out more DPS, due to it not wasting time/Mana on Dragon Breath like the Firesteed/Nightmare does. The reason you were seeing the Firesteed/Nightmare do more damage to Navery, is simply because of their damage types. Navery is weak to Fire. Con Wep doesn't reach 100% chance to hit victim's weakest resist, until 80.0+ Chiv.

 

[UOLAPlayer]

Oh, don't worry you'll get PKed if you try to spawn.

If it's you (that PK's me). I'm posting the screen shot here hahaha. Always nice to get the Fel welcome.

 

[railshot]

If it's you (that PK's me). I'm posting the screen shot here hahaha. Always nice to get the Fel welcome.

Oh, you misunderstand . I am strictly PvM these days. My comment was merely reflecting my experience. It was not a thread or a promise

 

[UOLAPlayer]

...
The Chiv/AI Unicorn should be pumping out more DPS, due to it not wasting time/Mana on Dragon Breath like the Firesteed/Nightmare does. The reason you were seeing the Firesteed/Nightmare do more damage to Navery, is simply because of their damage types. Navery is weak to Fire. Con Wep doesn't reach 100% chance to hit victim's weakest resist, until 80.0+ Chiv.

On Navery the Dragon Breath isn't wasted, it seems like about as strong as getting in an extra hit. On my experimental build, I dropped int to 300 and lessened Mana Regen and totally skipped Hit Point Regen (did 5 Stamina Regen) so I could get 750 hit points and make a strong (Dragon Breath) fire ball though. Even with those lowering effects to mana regen, the rate of casting seems pretty good. In other cases with a high fire resist opponent, it would be, like you mention. Good reminder about Consecrate Weap. I just checked the Fire Steed I've been using to test the AI/Feint/Chiv build that I'm liking the most and he's at 78.7 still. From the Feint, 79.7 Bushido as well. I looked at the info on Feint, and it doesn't say anything about scaling based on skill.

If I keep chipping away and doing a couple Navery's a day, and get a tangle, then I'll look at whether this build ends up being something I keep in the stable or gets pushed out, after I've moved on. It might turn out to be decent for an all around pet, but I haven't really made a "Hunt List" for lesser and greater trained pets. For me that's what I'll do, formally or informally to help evaluate all around status. By lesser I mean 2 or 3 slot, and by greater, I mean 4 or 5.

Dump all the stuff out of your pack and go for it. Or practice at Humility. 3 Tamers can do a spawn. 2 scrolls each in Fel.

There's the virtue where you can protect the player too, and gain another set of scrolls. So possibly 4 scrolls each.

 

[Poo]

at a minimum i have 3 tamers on every shard in game.
i have made great strides to get each of them some base pets to 5 slots so they are functional but i must admit i had to leave scrolling my pets up when i started.
there is just no way i could ever afford to scroll up 10 to 15 pets on every shard.
that would just be brutal.

that said i have on my home shard and on ATL at the very least scrolled most pets up to at least +10.

truth be told, since i run a disco tamer i have not really noticed a difference between my scrolled up pets and my non scrolled up pets.
not enough of a difference to invest 50 mill in scrolls for them.

i may make a 120 pet just for giggles to see if there is a big difference there.

but again, im not seeing a price vs reward difference, at least not for a big tamer like myself with a LOT of pets.

personally i went the route of getting the highest mastery i could for each of my tamers.
i find that money better spent.