Salpeter where can i find it?

[Basara]

They should simply have made saltpeter like gems, spawn in batches of 500 and instantly respawns when bought.

This is 100% correct, I can't believe they didn't think this out before releasing it.

I thought they did... Then changed it to the current, Reagent-style, method when Saltpeter prices, from going up 1 for every 1000 sold, ended up over 800 per unit on TC.....

The problem is that there currently isn't a NPC sales system that is both static-price (these all use the 20, wait, then doubles, respawn), and instant-respawn (These all increase price 1 per 1000 sold), thanks to changes made about 5 years ago to the NPC vendor system. They'd have to code one back in, to get it that way, and that would involve several hours of work, and a wek or so of testing, for what amounts to a single NPC. It's not worth the investment of dev time, with other issues.

Now, if these other NPCs would just show up on the shards where getting any Saltpeter is an issue, it wouldn't be as bad.

 

[Aurelius]

So why not just add it as a sale item to ALL alchemist NPCs? People without HS would be reminded it's maybe worth having, since they'd see a 'reagent' they can't use, so it's even an incentive to buy the product...

 

[Basara]

Re: Satlpeter where can i find it?

Not sure why saltpeter had to be so special that it can only be found in the sea market.

(Pulls out lecture podium...)



Perhaps a history lesson is in order...


When Gunpowder was originally invented, so little was used, that one could use Bat guano from caves, to refine for saltpeter.

However, by the time the Age of Sail reached its glory years, the supply from caves was pretty much exhausted, as the bats weren't crapping enough over 1 year, to replace the thousands of years of doodoo that had been mined out.

Thus, the world began looking for new sources of droppings.

And, in time, they found them - Tiny little islands, often too small and rocky for plant life, mostly along the mid-ocean ridges, where the long-range sea birds would stop, rest, and sometimes raise their young.

But, these islands full of feces were often thousands of miles away from the countries claiming them, leading to harsh words and threats between politicians to said islands, and eventually leading to wars -

Literally, nations were fighting over - or at least who got to mine and keep it. It wasn't until the revolutionary advances in chemical engineering in the first decade of the 1900s, that scientists finally figured out how to synthesize the relevant materials in a laboratory, in sufficient quantities and cost to be economically viable. But, it took decades for that to spread to all nations (as, after all, the ability to create ammunition more easily, at home, would be a military secret of highest priority).

And, if in school, looking at a globe, you ever wondered why all those countries "owned" islands barely big enough to be considered more than reefs, half-way around the world - THIS is why they did, and why so many had conflicting claims of ownership.

This resulted in the "colonial" pressures of the 1910s between those with large empires, and those with few claims elsewhere, over mining and "mineral" rights(especially for military necessities like guano), becoming one of the pivotal forces behind forging the alliances that made World War One occur.

That war, as a result, became "The War to End All Wars for Seagull Shi...." Well, you get the idea.

By the time the Germans came back for Round Two, in the 1930s, everyone was making the stuff synthetically in chemical plants.

********

So, given that we don't have 1900s chemical tech, and most likely the Crown controls all caves that give guano, Saltpeter's going to be a resource that is found and traded by those traveling the seas....

:gun:

 

[Elric_Soban]

This is 100% correct, I can't believe they didn't think this out before releasing it.

I love the timing of this particular blunder. UO just recieved a hall of fame award for the longest running MMO. That's 12+ years of MMO experience - more than anyone else in the world. Of all the developers ON THE PLANET, OUR developers should've forseen this sortof thing.

Ahh well.

 

[Mapper]

They should simply have made saltpeter like gems, spawn in batches of 500 and instantly respawns when bought.

It was like this on TC, Trouble is, Like imbuing, When people keep buying them the price shoots up. There aren't quiet Saltpeter vendors, Like Jewelers.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Re: Satlpeter where can i find it?

(Pulls out lecture podium...)



Perhaps a history lesson is in order...


When Gunpowder was originally invented, so little was used, that one could use Bat guano from caves, to refine for saltpeter.

However, by the time the Age of Sail reached its glory years, the supply from caves was pretty much exhausted, as the bats weren't crapping enough over 1 year, to replace the thousands of years of doodoo that had been mined out.

Thus, the world began looking for new sources of droppings.

And, in time, they found them - Tiny little islands, often too small and rocky for plant life, mostly along the mid-ocean ridges, where the long-range sea birds would stop, rest, and sometimes raise their young.

But, these islands full of feces were often thousands of miles away from the countries claiming them, leading to harsh words and threats between politicians to said islands, and eventually leading to wars -

Literally, nations were fighting over - or at least who got to mine and keep it. It wasn't until the revolutionary advances in chemical engineering in the first decade of the 1900s, that scientists finally figured out how to synthesize the relevant materials in a laboratory, in sufficient quantities and cost to be economically viable. But, it took decades for that to spread to all nations (as, after all, the ability to create ammunition more easily, at home, would be a military secret of highest priority).

And, if in school, looking at a globe, you ever wondered why all those countries "owned" islands barely big enough to be considered more than reefs, half-way around the world - THIS is why they did, and why so many had conflicting claims of ownership.

This resulted in the "colonial" pressures of the 1910s between those with large empires, and those with few claims elsewhere, over mining and "mineral" rights(especially for military necessities like guano), becoming one of the pivotal forces behind forging the alliances that made World War One occur.

That war, as a result, became "The War to End All Wars for Seagull Shi...." Well, you get the idea.

By the time the Germans came back for Round Two, in the 1930s, everyone was making the stuff synthetically in chemical plants.

********

So, given that we don't have 1900s chemical tech, and most likely the Crown controls all caves that give guano, Saltpeter's going to be a resource that is found and traded by those traveling the seas....

:gun:

That's an interesting history lesson, thank you.
Now a question. How much was this involved in the growth and strength of the Dutch West India Company?

 

[Basara]

Re: Satlpeter where can i find it?

Not really sure, but it's a fair bet it was seagoing merchantile operations and pirates that first started experimenting with "alternative" (sea bird) forms of guano for saltpeter, instead of the more traditional bat and livestock varieties. After all, gunpowder for cannon typically being a royal-controlled resource, neither probably wanted to be left at the mercy of royalty, for their weaponry.

Some islands, when discovered, were found to have nearly all their height above the waves being collected guano, and were pretty much reduced to reefs or shoals when commercial operations were done (the material, of course, having started accumulating 2-10 thousand or more years ago, when the oceans were lower).

 

[Coppelia]

"It's just good business."

 

[Trebr Drab]

Re: Satlpeter where can i find it?

Not really sure, but it's a fair bet it was seagoing merchantile operations and pirates that first started experimenting with "alternative" (sea bird) forms of guano for saltpeter, instead of the more traditional bat and livestock varieties. After all, gunpowder for cannon typically being a royal-controlled resource, neither probably wanted to be left at the mercy of royalty, for their weaponry.

Some islands, when discovered, were found to have nearly all their height above the waves being collected guano, and were pretty much reduced to reefs or shoals when commercial operations were done (the material, of course, having started accumulating 2-10 thousand or more years ago, when the oceans were lower).

Oh, jeeze. Lower Oceans and human history, Atlantis, Tristan, Noah, all that...what a subject. History is such a mystery, both world and human.

 

[Coppelia]

It's only a mystery for the ignorant. Lower oceans have absolutely nothing to do with Plato's tale or other imaginary stories.

 

[Trebr Drab]

It's only a mystery for the ignorant. Lower oceans have absolutely nothing to do with Plato's tale or other imaginary stories.

Got proof?

 

[Ultima Weapon]

Napa too, still no fix

 

[Morloch]

This is laughable.

5 alchemists now - not a single saltpeter on any of them and many people going dizzy running between them hoping to be 'the one' to get there at re-spawn....

You need to put this on all alchemists

 

[Coppelia]

Got proof?

Yes, there are proofs, accepted as proofs by everybody with enough intellect and method to understand how proving things work. The fact you don't understand an explanation doesn't mean it's wrong. Fortunately, you're not the one we are required to ask for the permission to say something is proven or not.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Not really sure, but it's a fair bet it was seagoing merchantile operations and pirates that first started experimenting with "alternative" (sea bird) forms of guano for saltpeter, instead of the more traditional bat and livestock varieties. After all, gunpowder for cannon typically being a royal-controlled resource, neither probably wanted to be left at the mercy of royalty, for their weaponry.

Some islands, when discovered, were found to have nearly all their height above the waves being collected guano, and were pretty much reduced to reefs or shoals when commercial operations were done (the material, of course, having started accumulating 2-10 thousand or more years ago, when the oceans were lower).

Oh, jeeze. Lower Oceans and human history, Atlantis, Tristan, Noah, all that...what a subject. History is such a mystery, both world and human.

It's only a mystery for the ignorant. Lower oceans have absolutely nothing to do with Plato's tale or other imaginary stories.

Got proof?

Got proof?

Yes, there are proofs, accepted as proofs by everybody with enough intellect and method to understand how proving things work. The fact you don't understand an explanation doesn't mean it's wrong. Fortunately, you're not the one we are required to ask for the permission to say something is proven or not.

Sheesh, who put a beehive under your skirt?
You have no proof of anything. There is no proof. Only opinions. And if you want to get down to it, the real ignorance comes from someone who thinks their opinion is gospel and accuses all others as ignorant and lacking intellect.

It was just a comment. Why are you so abusive about it?

 

[Coppelia]

Science revisionism belongs to OT. Feel free to go there and debate if Science is just opinions.
I don't accuse "all others" to be ignorant or to lack of intellect. You are not all others. I don't preach, thus I have no gospel. Religion has nothing to do there, don't use those terms.

 

[TMC Crowley]

If I would have known saltpeter was going be like this i most likely wouldn't have got the booster . You pay for something and you can't even do part the booster you pay for . I was going upgrade my other 3 account but don't look like it not going waste my money maybe if they fix stuff .

 

[Trebr Drab]

Science revisionism belongs to OT. Feel free to go there and debate if Science is just opinions.
I don't accuse "all others" to be ignorant or to lack of intellect. You are not all others. I don't preach, thus I have no gospel. Religion has nothing to do there, don't use those terms.

PMed you.

 

[Skrag]

If I would have known saltpeter was going be like this i most likely wouldn't have got the booster . You pay for something and you can't even do part the booster you pay for . I was going upgrade my other 3 account but don't look like it not going waste my money maybe if they fix stuff .

But don't worry, once you finally load your cannons you'll be able to bring down a pirate and earn... 5k.

I feel like I've been robbed. There's nothing to do here that's worth doing.

 

[Basara]

Real world:

Lots of archeological digs on the bottom of the Baltic and Norse seas, on areas that were islands or part of the mainland 8-10 thousand years ago, that were flooded by the end of the ice age. These include the remains of huts, fire pits, tools used only on land, and even the occasional human remains. There's even a dig that goes on in the remains of a village in the waters between the Isle of Wight and Britain, but from the TV show I saw on the subject, it's a pain to work on, from the currents.

Similar finds (minus the buildings, of course) have been made a mile or more inside underwater caves in Mexico, that were above sea level when the tools and remains got where they were.

Cousteau, on one of his earliest dives, found a primitive open pit iron mine off of Marseille, several meters underwater. Other divers have found burial mounds in Scottish waters.

The island of Malta has ancient roads, so heavily used that they wore ruts in the bedrock they crossed, that disappear into the ocean, and continue on until they disappear under sediment.

No need for religion or mythology, to make such claims. Just the evidence.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Real world:

Lots of archeological digs on the bottom of the Baltic and Norse seas, on areas that were islands or part of the mainland 8-10 thousand years ago, that were flooded by the end of the ice age. These include the remains of huts, fire pits, tools used only on land, and even the occasional human remains. There's even a dig that goes on in the remains of a village in the waters between the Isle of Wight and Britain, but from the TV show I saw on the subject, it's a pain to work on, from the currents.

Similar finds (minus the buildings, of course) have been made a mile or more inside underwater caves in Mexico, that were above sea level when the tools and remains got where they were.

Cousteau, on one of his earliest dives, found a primitive open pit iron mine off of Marseille, several meters underwater. Other divers have found burial mounds in Scottish waters.

The island of Malta has ancient roads, so heavily used that they wore ruts in the bedrock they crossed, that disappear into the ocean, and continue on until they disappear under sediment.

No need for religion or mythology, to make such claims. Just the evidence.

Yes, and it all over the world. Anywhere people look (that makes sense) they find evidence of ancient cities under water. The Black Sea, off just about every coast, anywhere that makes sense in what used to be dry land at the end of the last Ice Age.

BTW, the religious reference came from my use of the term "opinion is gospel", which is not a religious inclusion at all. Just sayin'.

But to kind of lead this back on topic, the historical references mentioned before this started was more about how saltpeter affected history, nations, trade, etc. I don't know what the UO folks have in mind with the set up the way it is. But I'm hoping they are working towards something of this nature. I wouldn't mind at all if large guilds organized and divided the labors to put forth a strong navy.

 

[nestleb]

I am in Formosa.

1 week is passed and there is still only one alchemist. (why? not 3?)
1 week is passed and my cannons are still not loaded due to saltpeter shortage.

hey, i am a miner. Can I dig saltpeter instead of spending all day waiting. this looks stupid.

 

[ziggy29]

I am in Formosa.

1 week is passed and there is still only one alchemist. (why? not 3?)
1 week is passed and my cannons are still not loaded due to saltpeter shortage.

Also still only one vendor on Lake Austin and, last I heard, on Europa as well.

To the devs -- a few days ago it was said you were adding NPC vendors to more docks on ALL the shards. Some of us still don't have them. This has been pointed out repeatedly and there has been no response to the lack of multiple vendors on a few shards. Is the exclusion of some shards intentional or just an oversight? It is really impacting the usefulness of the booster on these shards, and I dare say might convince people on these shards not to buy it.

 

[popps]

By the way talking about Salpeter, what is a reasonable stock one should aim at ?