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SA Client Q and A

Basara

UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
99% of the "blurry" issues with KR can be explained by one of two things.

1. The person complaining has never put any real effort to play with their video card settings (including most up to date drivers and most up to date DirectX build), and the zoom and video settings within KR.

2. They consider the very pixelated 2D art crisp and detailed (as opposed to just primitive - and the detail they think they see disappears if you try to enlarge the pic with a screencap and zooming in on the supposed detailed art - it's an optical illusion, for the most part, where your mind fills in the things you WANT to see there), then call the much more detailed, but softer in transitions, art of KR "blurry".

In the case of the second, I've seen someone post a picture from a 3D Gamebryo game, asking why KR can't look like that - and the ground & wall textures were IDENTICAL for all intents and purposes to the same things that they said were blurry in their KR screencap.rolleyes: As for the character, the pic itself of the 3D gamebryo game was from something where the POV was 3rd person, but at a much closer standard viewing range than UO uses - and both KR and uoTD clients would look pixellated from the zooming at that range (and, conversely, the other game, if one zoomed out to the range one associates with UO, would start looking bad, too).

Note that I play 2D almost exclusively, but have experimented enough in KR, not playing*, just adjusting the settings, to know when people haven't actually made an effort to fix their own, fixable, client issues. I've even got KR running on 4 different machines, one of which is a 7 year old P4 1.4 Ghz machine with a 4000-series Nvidia card, better than most of the KR bashers claim that it runs on their machines. So, I have reason to suspect it's not a hardware or software issue, but a user one.

But, I do have to agree with those that question the changes made to operational procedures, not art. While, for new players, going to things that are the equivalent of modern Windows actions (i.e. right-clicking) makes sense, so many of the users were used to 3-8 years of left-clicking for the same actions that it makes it a lot more difficult to transition than it should have been.

*(other than heartwood quests and the occasional logging in on a second account to rez another account's pet)
 

Spree

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
99% of the "blurry" issues with KR can be explained by one of two things.

1. The person complaining has never put any real effort to play with their video card settings (including most up to date drivers and most up to date DirectX build), and the zoom and video settings within KR.

2. They consider the very pixelated 2D art crisp and detailed (as opposed to just primitive - and the detail they think they see disappears if you try to enlarge the pic with a screencap and zooming in on the supposed detailed art - it's an optical illusion, for the most part, where your mind fills in the things you WANT to see there), then call the much more detailed, but softer in transitions, art of KR "blurry".

In the case of the second, I've seen someone post a picture from a 3D Gamebryo game, asking why KR can't look like that - and the ground & wall textures were IDENTICAL for all intents and purposes to the same things that they said were blurry in their KR screencap.rolleyes: As for the character, the pic itself of the 3D gamebryo game was from something where the POV was 3rd person, but at a much closer standard viewing range than UO uses - and both KR and uoTD clients would look pixellated from the zooming at that range (and, conversely, the other game, if one zoomed out to the range one associates with UO, would start looking bad, too).

Note that I play 2D almost exclusively, but have experimented enough in KR, not playing*, just adjusting the settings, to know when people haven't actually made an effort to fix their own, fixable, client issues. I've even got KR running on 4 different machines, one of which is a 7 year old P4 1.4 Ghz machine with a 4000-series Nvidia card, better than most of the KR bashers claim that it runs on their machines. So, I have reason to suspect it's not a hardware or software issue, but a user one.

But, I do have to agree with those that question the changes made to operational procedures, not art. While, for new players, going to things that are the equivalent of modern Windows actions (i.e. right-clicking) makes sense, so many of the users were used to 3-8 years of left-clicking for the same actions that it makes it a lot more difficult to transition than it should have been.

*(other than heartwood quests and the occasional logging in on a second account to rez another account's pet)

Why do other games play smoothly with no lag and don't look blurry. I can load them and they run. Why should I spend days trying to figure out geek stuff. I spent 2 weeks trying to get KR to run right. I just want to play a game, I dont want to be a computer progammer. The geeks that make the game should be the ones the figure out the setting.
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The easiest way to consolidate the clients and make everyone happy.


Keep the way the new client, plays, feels and looks with what has been for over a decade now.

Backpacks, targeting, all of it. Graphics, sweet!! New options to customize your interface, sweet!!! New improved game engine, sweet!!!! New improved everything other than what the game feels like playing it, :thumbup1:


We'd like it for backpacks, chests, barrels, baskets, picnic baskets, pouches, all containers even that should actually look like the container they represent and NOT a brown box.

There should not be "grids" dude up their said it best about hiding stuff in their pack.


We love the idea of an upgraded client... and it sounds like we're going for that.

You Devs rock!!!
 
T

Tovladian Soltyr

Guest
Q: Will there be pink unicorns?!





:hug:
Isn't that the Dreadhorn's "Alternative Life Style" cousin? o_O

I'm very very very happy to hear that 2D is here to stay, don't get my wrong no dissing the 3D clients that have been around for UO but 2D is just better for some of us.

For example I have a friend that suffers from seizures and he can't play in 3D cause the graphics shadowing and such "Blink" to much and get to him but in 2D he has no problems at all. So if 2D stays around he'll still be able to play, there are just people out there that no matter how cool/good/great the 3D client is will always just enjoy the simplicity of the 2D client :D.
 

Doomsday Dragon

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The mobs will use the art from KR.

I am done right there. The mobs in KR were one of the biggest turn offs for me so I don't think I will be using the new client.
 

Crysta

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The mobs will use the art from KR.

I am done right there. The mobs in KR were one of the biggest turn offs for me so I don't think I will be using the new client.
Great. And you saying that won't change the devs' minds on it at all, so you really had no reason to post anything.
 

Tjalle

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I wouldnt call the movement "floaty" ... I would call it SLIPPERY! I have literally skated past my destination numerous times because the movement is a bit TOOO smooth.
I second that.

Although one thing I liked about the KR movement is that I don´t get stuck on things. Whenever I bump into something I automatically just go around it... :)
 
F

Flora Green

Guest
The mobs will use the art from KR.

I am done right there. The mobs in KR were one of the biggest turn offs for me so I don't think I will be using the new client.
Same here. Then again, who knows if I'll even be able to try the new client considering I can't run KR.
 
A

Alrich

Guest
Wow lot more people opposed to the grid-packs then I thought!

I myself play on siege too so I know what it is like with thieves. (especially since I can't properly hide things in my pack) though when using grid mode, it seems to stack most items in the bottom right corner of my pack anyway so *shrug*

Well anyway freeform for pack is fine IMO, but for storage in the house, GRID ALL THE WAY! it makes organising SOOO much neater and easier then having dozens of boxes with different stuff. Maybe I have OCD but any time I ever log into legacy I spend more then half my time fixing my darned boxes, when all I was looking for was a hammer, or piece of armor or something. KR I can have everything all neatly each in its own gridbox.

Far as performance, I have it running on 3 machines of varying quality and even on my old IBM thinkpad 1.6ghz with 512 ram, it runs perfectly fine. Sure it may lag a moment if 20 people and 15 pets are in luna, but even old client does that. Also, have to mention, turning off idle animations helps a ton if you have slowdowns or choppy video.

One thing that DOES annoy me is sometimes KR crashes and says its performed an illegal operation yada yada, but I can alt tab and continue to play! lol. Some objects (like corpses and moongates) disappear but it still works! Least its useful to save a hotkey or macro and close without losing it.


Anyway all kr vs legacy ranting aside, can't wait to see what is in store with SA, I just hope it is released in good, working condition and advertised in magazines or something atleast. Yes stratics is best place to get word out of UO stuff, but not everyone checks it. Would be nice to find some truly new blood!
 
B

Belmarduk

Guest
Q. Do you have to use the SA Client to experience the new content?

NO. All of the expansion pack content will be available for play in both clients. (Assuming you have bought the expansion)
Very bad idea.
When the new client is ready ALL old clients should be deactivated.
Sadly I forsee the new client going the same direction as KR because:

People refuse to adapt and use it...
We will get the same whines as before:
It doesnt run on my P133 with 50 mb RAM. (...)
It doesnt look like UO (of course it doesnt look like legacy 2D because its a new client FFS.
The UI is too difficult and I refuse to relearn it (...)
etc etc

As I stated in another thread - Make the graphics,UI etc etc pleasable to the majority - DONT RELEASE TILL FINISHED and then....
DEACTVATE all old clients !!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is going to only be a reroll of the fiasco we had in the last 18 months otherwise...
Greetings Belmarduk
 

hawkeye_pike

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
My questions:

  • Will house placement and decoration work better in SA than it worked in KR?
  • Will I be able to play SA client only (without having to switch back to 2D), in order to do everything in the game and compete in PvP?
  • Will the small disadvantages of the KR client vanish, that make a big difference in PvP? (Like not being able to see the highlighting color, not being able to see if target is poisoned, no mini health bars that are displayed automatically, health bars vanishing when player moves off screen, etc. etc.)
  • Will there be an improved macro functionality? (Like bandage self macros actually working, arm/disarm working better, use item type macros, etc.)

These mostly were the issues keeping me from using KR, and the bugs of course. I also was hoping you'd improve most of the artwork, as some of the KR art looks horrible (concerning size and perspective of objects). But it seems you'll be working more on the interface. Well. KR art still is better than 2D, but it will be difficult to attract new players to the game if SA client hasn't got kickass artwork.
 

Experimental

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Very bad idea.
When the new client is ready ALL old clients should be deactivated.
Sadly I forsee the new client going the same direction as KR because:

People refuse to adapt and use it...
We will get the same whines as before:
It doesnt run on my P133 with 50 mb RAM. (...)
It doesnt look like UO (of course it doesnt look like legacy 2D because its a new client FFS.
The UI is too difficult and I refuse to relearn it (...)
etc etc

As I stated in another thread - Make the graphics,UI etc etc pleasable to the majority - DONT RELEASE TILL FINISHED and then....
DEACTVATE all old clients !!!!!!!!!!!!!



This is going to only be a reroll of the fiasco we had in the last 18 months otherwise...
Greetings Belmarduk

Cal said only about 20% of the player base uses KR and he doesn't want to **** off the other 80% who use 2D, so no matter how bad you want it deactivated, majority rules. 2D is staying.
 

hawkeye_pike

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Cal said only about 20% of the player base uses KR and he doesn't want to **** off the other 80% who use 2D, so no matter how bad you want it deactivated, majority rules. 2D is staying.
I absolutely agree that 2 clients make sense. But, when one client has advantages over the other, the other will go away by itself. This means, if the SA client isn't at least as good as the 2D client (especially concerning PvP, crafting and housing stuff), hardly anybody will use it. If they don't make the SA client BETTER than the 2D client, then EA could save a lot of time and money and not bother about the new client anymore.

Conclusion: The goal must be, to make the SA Client BETTER than the 2D client!
 
L

Lord Kynd

Guest
I absolutely agree that 2 clients make sense. But, when one client has advantages over the other, the other will go away by itself. This means, if the SA client isn't at least as good as the 2D client (especially concerning PvP, crafting and housing stuff), hardly anybody will use it. If they don't make the SA client BETTER than the 2D client, then EA could save a lot of time and money and not bother about the new client anymore.

Conclusion: The goal must be, to make the SA Client BETTER than the 2D client!
don't forget if it lag's like KR client does.
 
N

NewThunder

Guest
Q. Is the SA Client a completely new client?

Yes and No. It's built on top of the existing KR technology but there will be enough changes made to make look and feel significantly different.
Could you provide more details on this? Is it just a re-tooled KR client or is it a completely new client?
 

deadite

Sage
It's My Birthday
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I hope they tweak the mob/character art in KR. Especially toning down the size and idle animations.

If they can add the outline kinda like Saph had done to the initial KR screenshots, things would definitely be much more defined... and they also had kind of a neat cell-shaded looking effect.

I got my fingers crossed for SA. Better rendering is a MUST.
 
C

Calliope

Guest
I can cope with the graphical differences in KR, I can get accustomed to the movement and I hope that outstanding bugs will be fixed.

What I cannot get used to is the interface. I want a classical-style interface with the extra functionality that can at present only be provided by UOA and UOMap. I dislike the messy-looking, counter-intuitive and generic UI of KR, it's what stops me playing the client.
 

LadyNico

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
So, there's going to be this huge surge of subscription cancellations when all those folks who swore blind they'd quit if 2d was supported in SA get around to reading this thread, right?



All churlishness aside, I remain both glad & grateful that we will continue to have the choice of both clients. Win-Win.
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...


What I cannot get used to is the interface. I want a classical-style interface with the extra functionality that can at present only be provided by UOA and UOMap. I dislike the messy-looking, counter-intuitive and generic UI of KR, it's what stops me playing the client.


In the words of the Dev Team... soon.

Even if the Devs do not put in a Legacy inspired UI, you will be able to add one in to KR very very soon and into SA when it is released.
 
V

Vyal

Guest
Dumb, hasn't this thing been announced before in the same way? Years ago?

Tell me why you wouldn't put a release date out seeing as how people are so fed up with this game and the completly retarted events, bugs, terrible staff, people using hacks and exploits, it's like ya'll ain't even pofessional about anything that you do. Instead of posting your news on your own site you come and post here on these forums. Do any other games do that honestly? Your game doesn't even have it's own forums and the website is terrible like the rest of it.

I wish I would have never even known about it now i'll be waiting ten years thinkin day by day it'll be the next day we will get some news about it but the news sadly will never come like always. I probably won't stick around to hear about it this game is so terrible if it wasn't for the friends I have that play the game I wouldn't play it I have no doubt about that.

EA just shut up already, cancel this terrible game so we can all move on to something better. This game is a flippin joke.
 

HD2300

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Dumb, hasn't this thing been announced before in the same way? Years ago?

Tell me why you wouldn't put a release date out seeing as how people are so fed up with this game and the completly retarted events, bugs, terrible staff, people using hacks and exploits, it's like ya'll ain't even pofessional about anything that you do. Instead of posting your news on your own site you come and post here on these forums. Do any other games do that honestly? Your game doesn't even have it's own forums and the website is terrible like the rest of it.
There is no release date because it is still in the conceptual stage. You cannot provide estimates and work out a delivery date, when you still dont know what is in a project.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
EA just shut up already, cancel this terrible game so we can all move on to something better. This game is a flippin joke.
Maybe you should take your own advice.

Shut up, then log off and leave forever so we can all move on to something better.

Your posts are a flippin joke.

:loser:
 
B

Belmarduk

Guest
So, there's going to be this huge surge of subscription cancellations when all those folks who swore blind they'd quit if 2d was supported in SA get around to reading this thread, right?



All churlishness aside, I remain both glad & grateful that we will continue to have the choice of both clients. Win-Win.
Technically I allready have quit Milady ;)

I just fear its going to be exactly the same situation we had a year ago.
The client can be as good as whatever but again only 20% will use it because dont want to relearn or use a different client than they are used too.

This will lead to the new client getting less dev-ressources - leading to the same situation we have currently...
And I very much doubt UO will get another chance after this one.Too be honest I thought UO was finished a few months ago.

"If this new client doesnt really suceed it will be over."

(I could write this last sentence in Caps and in red but whats the point.Remember this last sentence..!!!)

I myself will now wait and see what the new client looks like BEFORE I start playing again.

Greetings Belmarduk
 
K

Kiminality

Guest
Here's my thoughts, for what they're worth.

From the sound of it, the plan is still to use textures of renders of the high-detail models, to make offer effectively high-poly graphics without actually having a high poly count.
Wasn't this approach responsible for some of the performance issues, what with graphics cards being designed to be more capable with 3d calculation, than with comparatively large use of textures?
Also, wasn't this approach also responsible for prohibitively large patch sizes (I recall mention that there were plenty of graphical fixes that are still pending inclusion in a patch, because they were just too big)?
Also, wouldn't the scaling of the pre-renders have caused some of the blurriness since the scaling would have affected all of it, including the "edges"?

I do understand the upsides to this method, but aren't the negatives a little weighty?

Also, I have little issue with a little artistic license, and no issue with making things look better (not arguing matters of taste here, some of the KR artwork was better than 2D, largely SE-and-later artwork).
However, as people have said, making things look massively different is not good.
 

Hildebrand

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Why do other games play smoothly with no lag and don't look blurry. I can load them and they run. Why should I spend days trying to figure out geek stuff. I spent 2 weeks trying to get KR to run right. I just want to play a game, I dont want to be a computer progammer. The geeks that make the game should be the ones the figure out the setting.
It's classic Origin. Ever since Ultima 3, my first Origin game, I had to do some kind of geek tweaking to get their games to work. I got rather good at tweaking computers henceforth. They're just following in their path.

Although, I never had to tweak much for 2d or KR.
 

deadite

Sage
It's My Birthday
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Hildebrand, you make an excellent point.

I learned DOS inside and out to get Ultima 7 and it's kooky memory manager to run. I hate to create the DOS startup menus for different configs and everything.

I fell in love with computers almost as much as I did with Ultima during that period of my life. :)
 
J

Jeremy

Guest
It was Underworld and its wonky memory manager for me - then installing a sound card and a cd player. I learned enough getting Ultimas to run to get a good job in Tech Support :)
 

deadite

Sage
It's My Birthday
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Funny you say that Jeremy... I ended up an IT Admin and I guess I can directly contribute the Voodoo Memory Manager as the kickoff to get here. ;)
 
D

dupadupa

Guest
I'll be happy to test these on my system.

Operating System: Windows XP Professional x64 Edition (5.2, Build 3790) Service Pack 2 (3790.srv03_sp2_gdr.070321-2337)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Model: P5K Premium
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
Memory: 8190MB RAM
Page File: 1619MB used, 18428MB available
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 8800 GT

As it is, KR still lags my system after about 20 minutes.

i doubt its the client causing you problems .....

i act play this on a latitude d630 with just internal graphics and it works just fine... no lag what so ever.. tho one down side is that it runs hot
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
RTLFC

I wish they could make the new client look great, ala 3D but have all the features and functions exactly like the 2D client.

Someone above posted that we don't want to learn the game all over.. and to think about hit, for me, he is right. I've been playing this game for 11 years so I don't want to learn it all over again, especially where PvP is concerned.

It took a very long time to get the timing down in PvP, so if they removed the 2D client I would close my 6 accounts. That is unless the changes were as stated above.
 

THP

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Get rid of the pop up lag issues and make the 2d interface and backpack a ''classic option'' and u maybe onto a winer this time....
 
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