Relic Market is going to explode in atleast 1 week

[RavenWinterHawk]

Sounds like the devs let something slide through that they shouldn't have:
Allowing people to unravel imbued items.

Simple fix:
if item is imbued, don't unravel.

Hopefully the devs will fix this.

Simple. I like it.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Mark my words. and its not my fault.

So you mean dull runics are going up from 100k and copper runics will be worth more than 200K each

Love it when somebody does this. If you know then tell.

 

[Orkster]

Garath strikes again

Garath being the author of the script to create/unravel items for relic fragments.

 

[Thangorodrim]

Sounds like the devs let something slide through that they shouldn't have:
Allowing people to unravel imbued items.

Simple fix:
if item is imbued, don't unravel.

Hopefully the devs will fix this.

That would be a terrible punishment to those of us like myself who have yet to start training imbuing.

If this issue gets up their ass then they should implement programming 101 techniques to abate all this scripting BS, instead of relegating the honest to last place yet again.

 

[Splup]

Making relics with imbuing burns pretty much gems.

I see this as a great goldsink.

 

[Diggity]

That would be a terrible punishment to those of us like myself who have yet to start training imbuing.

....

That was my thought as well, tho I have finished my training. If they changed it so you could only get residue or essence from unraveling, it should not affect training at all.

Otherwise I'm conflicted on this. On one hand you have the script imbuer/unravellers. On the other hand, you have the script bod runners/miners/runic getters (I think runic hammers >= bronze are one of the easiest ways to reliably get relics if you have the resources). Ready to swoop in if there is market demand are the dupers. Undoubtedly there are other nefarious ways to produce relics.

Personally I think it is too late to try to limit relic fragments. Picking on only the script imbuers punishes the honest/casual players and rewards the script miners/bod runners. If they are able to stop the script miners/bod runners, that rewards the dupers.

 

[legendsguy]

I don't want limits. I want to do whatever the hell I feel like doing, for however long I feel like doing it. Take that away and you may as well put a gun to UO's head and pull the trigger.

i've disagreed with pretty much everything you've ever said on these boards, but this is actually true. deal with scripters--please!--but not in this half-assed way of punishing everyone (and then the scripters finding a workaround anyhow).

 

[Stupid Miner]

another reason, I say if your doing the same thing over and over for an hour, you should be blocked out.

So... script heartwood 59 mins, script unraveling 59 mins, repeat.

 

[Serafi]

Sounds like the devs let something slide through that they shouldn't have:
Allowing people to unravel imbued items.

Simple fix:
if item is imbued, don't unravel.

Hopefully the devs will fix this.

No, I hope they don`t. I hope they keep it as it is. More options in gathering/creating resources, more playability for the casual player.

Gheed wrote:

There is nothing in that rationale that narrows the gap or gives the people any advantage. Limits do not change the nature of the issue. Quantities are reduced but the ratio remains the same. And scripting rules the roost with pure perseverance.

QFT.

Try to limit the scripters and all you do is limit the casual players. Those who runs scripts will always find workarounds. Just look at mining or lumberjacking and the change there. The only way to beat this thing is to keep it as it is, flood the market with relics where anyone can create them just investing time and resources. Then the market for selling will go down and the scripters will move elsewhere.

 

[Splup]

I have always found it bit odd people asking for something to be changed cause it's easily scriptable.

I mean, it's like accepting scripting.

Fix the scripting and don't make living harder for normal players, since scripters will then just make new better scripts.

 

[Stupid Miner]

So... what's the secret? If it's as simple as imbue 380 intensity of properties (that use magic residue) on a non-exceptional weapon and then imbue that weapon with verite to boost it +70 intensity total, and then unraveling the item(with a gargoyle), I'm going to be sorely disappointed that people didn't figure it out earlier.
(imbue 400, enhance with DC would work too)

Granted TC is down so I cant test this.

 

[UOKaiser]

LoL are ya talking about what ya just pointed to? Heh people being doing that manualy since the first legendary imbuer was made. Hell people being knowing how to get relics since testing. We all knew how to get them once you reached 120 and well thats what's being going on. Just because someone makes at txt file aint gonna change anything. People have made it easier writing macros on sa and uo assist. Doesn't change the fact the methods are already known. By the looks of it manualy or macros where pretty fast as is this juts makes the lazy even lazier.
1 week explosion should have happened when someone posted on stratics how to get the relics by unraveling which informed everyone else who didn't know. The post's are still running around on the different methods. Should start screaming at them for revealing what other people have found out on there own.

 

[Heimi]

I like how in the script thread they thank the player who has been running a relic vendor on Europa. Things that make you go hmm...

 

[pgcd]

After reading the whole thread I thought "Hey, but you cannot script this stuff in your home because you can only unravel relics at the Queen's Forge! So it's gonna be easy to catch the scripters since they will all be there!".
And then I thought about Heartwood. =|

 

[Cyrah]

Oh I am marking your words all right! Thanks a lot for yet another aspect of UO that is depressing! They sell unused cheese for millions, relics next and I cannnot even place a vanity in front of a set of curtains. Both items purchases from EA tokens. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!


Who does this dev team love? gee... And yet I cheered while fires burned, boy was I stupid.

Oh yea, trick or treat.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

THERE IS SO MUCH THEY CAN DO.


"You created a relic with your skill. You can use this relic to create"


Just make it non-transferable. ARGH.

The crafter is bound to the magic as the magic is bound to the crafter. The ingredient must be used by the creator. The item can be sold.


HIRE ME.

Now ^ THAT ^ is a great idea.

 

[Ken of Napa]

Sounds like the devs let something slide through that they shouldn't have:
Allowing people to unravel imbued items.

Simple fix:
if item is imbued, don't unravel.

Hopefully the devs will fix this.

If your gonna do that you might as well just do away with imbuing. While your at it why don't you just not allow anyone to mine for ingots? Afterall that's what the scriptor's do the most.

Then you can just not allow anyone to do the bow quest. Let's just punish everyone because someone made a script that the GM's can't stop.

 

[Phaen Grey]

Can you unravel cursed items?

 

[Ken of Napa]

Can you unravel cursed items?

Yes, at least untill someone decides that's overpowering.

 

[Argnak]

I dont think this particular script will do much harm. Gathering resources and runic farming are much worse than this.

Yesterday i made myself 60 Relic frags, in less than one hour at the queen's soulforge, using 4 UOAssist macros. Before that i had to craft the items i wanted to imbue and buy the needed gems. The thing is that i burnt, in less than 60 min, 2500 Magic Residues, and about 6500 gems. The residues were left overs from my training (I finished before they nerfed the residue return from unraveling). If i had to produce all that residue, i would need a good amount of rare woods, and lots of time to craft and unravel bows/bokutos.

The limiting factor here is that too much material is used to craft the relics. To run a script 24 hrs you would need what? 60k Magic Residue and about 160k gems, plus lots of crafted items to imbue. If u buy that many gems, price will go up, making your relics more expensive to produce, buy that many M.R. and the price will go up too. As it is today, it costs from 30 to 50k to produce one relic, and ppl is selling them for 60k already in Luna (Europa). I dont think price could drop much more than that, nor i think there will be demand for tons of relics either.

 

[Myna]

relic prices on europa droped so much its not worth to produce them for selling anymore.

every second vendor in luna sells relics and there isnt a high demand in relics. not much properties uses relics and its to easy to produce it yourself.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I dont think this particular script will do much harm.

Really now? Relics USED to sell for 500k EACH. Now I can't even sell a single one at prices lower than anyone else on the shard.

Maybe it didn't harm you, but it sure as hell hurt the merchants of the game.

 

[Old Man of UO]

After reading the whole thread I thought "Hey, but you cannot script this stuff in your home because you can only unravel relics at the Queen's Forge! So it's gonna be easy to catch the scripters since they will all be there!".
And then I thought about Heartwood. =|

That's nonsense. I unravel relics in my home with my elf. You've been told this before, but it apparently hasn't sunk in. The Queen's forge does give a bonus, so it makes more sense to try there, but it can be done at a home soul forge.

Myself, I've got about 100 lvl 6 treasure maps to dig up for the artifacts to unravel.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Really now? Relics USED to sell for 500k EACH. Now I can't even sell a single one at prices lower than anyone else on the shard.

Maybe it didn't harm you, but it sure as hell hurt the merchants of the game.

I disagree that it hurts the merchants. The "merchants" were just getting the jump on the supply and charging higher initial rates, like any other new item in the game. But if you think about it, pretty soon most people will have the special items they have been training imbuing for and the prices will drop even further. 1000 gold each for residue and 500K for relics was ridiculous in my opinion. Now the prices will settle down to something more representative of the actual difficulty and time required to get the relics.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I disagree that it hurts the merchants. The "merchants" were just getting the jump on the supply and charging higher initial rates, like any other new item in the game. But if you think about it, pretty soon most people will have the special items they have been training imbuing for and the prices will drop even further. 1000 gold each for residue and 500K for relics was ridiculous in my opinion. Now the prices will settle down to something more representative of the actual difficulty and time required to get the relics.

Essence sells for more than relics right now. That is in no way representative of the difficulty. It's representative of the fact that some people once again cheated to build mass amounts of relics which undercut the honest merchant just like script mining does.

 

[rareitem]

The big issue here is that with a pack horse loaded with resources , 120 imbuing and using Queens Forge you can get 1 relik fragment every 45 secconds ( uoa macros, no script ) at the incredible price of 25K/piece , that makes 80 reliks per hour ...........
IMHO reliks should be harder to get tbh.

 

[Argnak]

@ Connor_Graham

Honest merchants selling relic frags at 500k each? I can think loads of names to call them, but "honest". Why in hell would someone charge 500k for something that can be made with 30k? I bet those are the same that were selling "Portable Soulforges" for 70 mill, ha!

Price would drop anyways, script or no script. There are loads of ppl that think 100% profit is very good already, me included.

 

[Basara]

Personally, I think the whole thing is silly, because the prices are meaningless to people like myself that PLAY UO, instead of BEING PLAYED BY UO, that have no intention of ever buying relic fragments in the first place, because we only use what we collect ourselves (or friends give us).

And, there are a lot more of us than you doom-cryers want to admit.

 

[Connor_Graham]

@ Connor_Graham

Honest merchants selling relic frags at 500k each? I can think loads of names to call them, but "honest".

That's the price they started out selling at to begin with. No need to be insulting. The problem is that now they're worth less than a lesser ingredient, meaning the scripters have ruined yet another commodity. I'm still not entirely convinced that duping isn't involved here either considering how many of the different essences are available.

 

[Toptwo]

That's the price they started out selling at to begin with. No need to be insulting. The problem is that now they're worth less than a lesser ingredient, meaning the scripters have ruined yet another commodity. I'm still not entirely convinced that duping isn't involved here either considering how many of the different essences are available.

Why does everything go onto scripters?? I have over 300 relic frags, I have NOT scripted a one. Every one has been lovingly made by hand...but everybody here at stratics seems to want to put everything on scripters all the time..why is that?? Also...what is the problem if I want to charge 500K or even 5M for a relic frag on my vendor?????? If you dont like the price DONT BUY IT, go to another vendor or make your own frag...Also, I seem to remember posting a LONG time ago that I felt that frags could end up being one of the most duped item in the game, since they only have a ID number when made, and there is no way to track them when they are used...almost everybody here INCLUDING YOU Connor poo-pood me...now I see it is okay for you to bring it up, seems like most of stratics are hypocrits!

 

[Argnak]

meaning the scripters have ruined yet another commodity

Mate, what i'm trying to tell you is that is not scripters fault you can make a relic for 25-30k. You can get like 80 of them per hour without using any script, as more than one poster stated above. It took me longer to make the items to imbue and shop for gems in Ilsh than to actually make the relics. That is why i say that the script, in the relics case, is irrelevant. Anyone that can make a UOAssist macro can be as efficient as an scripter, if not more.

Yesterday, patch day, Europa's Queen's Soulforge was packed full of ppl and packies doing legit relics fragments. Who shall we blame now?

 

[Sarsmi]

Glad Baja doesn't have Europa's troubles, I still have some relics to unload. And none of them were "hand made", as it were, hehe.

If the devs want to fix this one possible solution would be that nothing that has been imbued can be unraveled to give a relic, only give MR or EE. That's probably the route I would go. So now to get relics we'll be back to unraveling runic cast offs and high end loot or minor arties.

I'm kind of undecided. I didn't put my eggs in the relic basket particularly (I will buy a piece of armor at 5k and unravel for a relic or unravel marties) but I think they should definitely have a pretty stable value roughly on par with other items that give desirable mods on imbued pieces. But then again it's also good that they aren't crazy expensive so people can have nice pieces in their suits.

IMO 500k for a relic is too high, and 50k is too low. I think if the market would settle at around 150k-300k that would be about right (depending on shard and luna/non luna). That can be one night of pvm for an experienced tamer or a couple weeks to a month for a newbie slogging away at EEs or whatever they do.

So yeah devs, do whatever you need to make that happen.

 

[LordDrago]

Personally, I think the whole thing is silly, because the prices are meaningless to people like myself that PLAY UO, instead of BEING PLAYED BY UO, that have no intention of ever buying relic fragments in the first place, because we only use what we collect ourselves (or friends give us).

And, there are a lot more of us than you doom-cryers want to admit.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I will never buy a relic froma vendor as I can always get my own, and already have even at 97.3 skill.

 

[Toptwo]

Well, another reason that there are so many relics out there, and more coming every day is because of ppl trying to prove how "smart" they are to all of stratics....I mean come on, you spend millions of gold, and countless hours trying to figure out how to make a relic frag, and as soon as you do...you get this tought in your head..."I know, I am gonna show everybody how smart I am...I'm going to stratics and post this up!" gee...what are ppl going to do with that info....lemme think a min...I know...they are going to go out and duplicate it...next thing you know instead of 5-10 ppl figuring it out for themselfs, you have 5000 people making them...I wonder whats going to happen to the price of them now?? In your zeal to prove how smart you are, you have cut your own throat...what genius that takes!

 

[Connor_Graham]

That is why i say that the script, in the relics case, is irrelevant. Anyone that can make a UOAssist macro can be as efficient as an scripter, if not more.

This is pure BS. No real person sitting in front of their computer can compete with a mindless script that can run 24 hours a day, much less be "as efficient, if not more".

 

[Sarsmi]

It's a little silly perhaps, but it's understandable. A lot of people play vendors and have no doubt speculated having relics to sell for a while. I'm sure more than a few people had 2k+ worth of high end loot to unravel, tucked away in their houses and were no doubt delighted to get a few dozen relic fragments which are rapidly losing value at this point.

It's legitimate to get relics from crafting them though, whether or not it was intended that they get churned out on a conveyor belt from the Q's soulforge direct to luna vendors is debatable, and only a question devs can answer. Probably with either action (changing how imbuing works to give relics) or inaction (high five guys! Enjoy your shiny new, super cheap relics).

In a sense it's a little gold sink, it's better time wise to buy gems, and the money spent at NPCs goes into the nether void ne'er to return. Getting the MR requires a lot of oak, which will invite more scripting (but hell what doesn't). I'd say it would discourage duping for relics, but at 50k a pop, 60,000 relics is worth 3 billion. If the item has to be on your person for the dupe to work I guess there is a weight issue, so a 5k stack would only be worth 250 million. Hrm. Actually thats still a lot of money.

*scratches head*

Ok my head hurts now. Too bad those little suckers are stackable, it'd probably help keep the craziness contained if they had to take up lockdown space. *shrugs*

 

[mjolnir131]

oh yea great idea lets take a super expensive skill to train and make it more expensive. just brill

the idea behind unravel is to recycle your stuff,now that just tooooooooooo powerful

most mods take 5 relics at 25k thats 125k for just one mod you get 5 it's still expensive to the average player

there are people out there still that 5 mil is big money

 

[Serafi]

Relics can be produced by anyone? That is great! That means that even without some superduper sampire/whammy something a casual player can actually get some of these when they need them. By producing them. Without buying them. And the problem is?

There is still a huge obstacle making max mods and the special ingredients needed for that. Not all of those can be created or mined/lumberjacked. If the dev team really want the casual player to also have some choices in creating those balanced suits - they leave it as it is. Not everyone have a huge stock of artifacts to unravel, or even the ability to get many of these in the first place.

 

[mjolnir131]

Relics can be produced by anyone? That is great! That means that even without some superduper sampire/whammy something a casual player can actually get some of these when they need them. By producing them. Without buying them. And the problem is?

There is still a huge obstacle making max mods and the special ingredients needed for that. Not all of those can be created or mined/lumberjacked. If the dev team really want the casual player to also have some choices in creating those balanced suits - they leave it as it is. Not everyone have a huge stock of artifacts to unravel, or even the ability to get many of these in the first place.

and that is perfecty said

 

[Fink]

Relics can be produced by anyone? That is great! That means that even without some superduper sampire/whammy something a casual player can actually get some of these when they need them. By producing them. Without buying them. And the problem is?

There is still a huge obstacle making max mods and the special ingredients needed for that. Not all of those can be created or mined/lumberjacked. If the dev team really want the casual player to also have some choices in creating those balanced suits - they leave it as it is. Not everyone have a huge stock of artifacts to unravel, or even the ability to get many of these in the first place.

I have no issue with relics being cheap. I don't see the need for sky-high prices. I think we're all brought up on a culture of "one million" being the basic denomination and, especially in a medieval setting, I think it's wrong.

As a crafter I can make my own residue for 100gp each and relics for 19k. Essence I get from hunting or dud runics. Gems I prefer to buy than hunt. Top-end ingredients, I've usually had clients supply their own. Most of them do their own math too.

I don't see the problem with this level of self-sufficiency. Miner/smiths & lumberjack/carpenters have been doing it for years. Trade aside, the top-end ingredients are still mostly out of reach of the pure crafter, and there's your limiting factor.

I don't think there's enough supply of dud artifacts or top loot to generate the relics needed to sustain Imbuing, considering the turnover inherent in the product.

As for scripting hurting the game, it tends to bring down some stupid nerfs from above. The devs see rampant scripting and react by making an activity more tedious or less profitable, as if that somehow harms a robot. More often than not, the little clueless guy gets squished when the nerf boot comes down, and the scripters scuttle out of harm's way like roaches.

 

[THyRoID99]

What did everyone think would happen?

The whole purpose of imbuing was to lower the cost of high end gear and make it easy for anyone to compete.

It was only a matter of time before things were extremely common. It just happened much quicker than most expected.

Exactly.