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Reducing In Game Gold.

  • Thread starter RavenWinterHawk
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L

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I think he means it is "leaving the game", by not being left over in IDOCs, etc. If the person comes back, their bank account would be reactived with the previous amount inside.

My favorite part of this would be not having to drag gold to my pack each time i open a mobs death-backpack ...=)
 

Lexfixr

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This pricing stupidity has been created by events that drop a few items only -- either stop these EM drops or do the vending machine system so that everyone can have an item
Your not going to stop rampant inflation as long as UO creates new so called rares every week

I dont have any issues with what I call on going rares Like a blaze sidhe or hard to get drops in the game cuz we all have a chance to get them abeit a small chance
 

Nexus

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I see an issue with the line I put in bold.. reason is... how is it determined that ppl have left the game? Do you give them 3 months after their account is inactive or if I accidently let an account lapse for a month, is my gold going to disappear? I can see it creating a lot of issues.
It doesn't matter, if gold is just a virtual, a variable attached to their account or character then when the account is inactive that can be stored, but it has zero effect on the game in general.

Right now you hear of people finding a check full of 1 mil checks at an IDOC by making it a virtual with no physical aspect just a property attached to an account this never happens. When they leave the game all their gold just goes with them, there is no chance of it being left behind in an IDOC. If they reactivate it's still there, because it's nothing more than a variable a little line of code that updates as you acquire or spend gold.

Me I say attach the gold to an account to be shared by all characters on it, so single account players don't have the hassle of transferring gold between characters, there are all kinds of things that could be done with this. Have Vendors draw their daily fee directly from a players gold holdings, instead having to physically have the gold on them. Gold from items purchased could go directly to a players bank account without having to visit them collect it. The potential to help with numerous issues and to simplify trade transactions is pretty large. Rent out vendors? Each week they auto collect directly to your bank box.

I would still leave a physical Gold item in the game though, but once it is placed in someone's back pack it goes automatically into the accounts "Bank Fund". For those that use Gold to deco, there could be a new item randomly added to creatures "Treasure Piles" that look like our existing gold coins.

For currently existing gold coins and checks, they would get converted over once placed into a players pack or bank box.
 

Nexus

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You are right, this idea wouldn't "fix" the economy, it would simply lower the numbers being worked with in transactions, which is a worthwhile exercise in my opinion, even if you do do something such as increase the amount of gold that can be held in a check, or a pile of gold.

As for the notion of making valuable items easier to come by, I am in no way in favour of that. There is real value in having to save up for some highly prized item, and having to "work" in game terms for them. Turning UO into a gigantic test server where all you need to do is say "give arties" would be a great way of making me personally lose all interest in the game. And no, I'm not wealthy in the game by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm not saying make desirable items common, but the drops could be adjusted a little bit at a time til a good balance is found. I remember the "Vanguard" event a couple years back. Some artifacts are just now recovering their previous values due to the mass influx that hit the game then. Even if they didn't boost drop rates, having an event once every year or so that would glut the market wouldn't hurt to slow inflation rates.
 
E

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It doesn't matter, if gold is just a virtual, a variable attached to their account or character then when the account is inactive that can be stored, but it has zero effect on the game in general.

Right now you hear of people finding a check full of 1 mil checks at an IDOC by making it a virtual with no physical aspect just a property attached to an account this never happens. When they leave the game all their gold just goes with them, there is no chance of it being left behind in an IDOC. If they reactivate it's still there, because it's nothing more than a variable a little line of code that updates as you acquire or spend gold.

Me I say attach the gold to an account to be shared by all characters on it, so single account players don't have the hassle of transferring gold between characters, there are all kinds of things that could be done with this. Have Vendors draw their daily fee directly from a players gold holdings, instead having to physically have the gold on them. Gold from items purchased could go directly to a players bank account without having to visit them collect it. The potential to help with numerous issues and to simplify trade transactions is pretty large. Rent out vendors? Each week they auto collect directly to your bank box.

I would still leave a physical Gold item in the game though, but once it is placed in someone's back pack it goes automatically into the accounts "Bank Fund". For those that use Gold to deco, there could be a new item randomly added to creatures "Treasure Piles" that look like our existing gold coins.

For currently existing gold coins and checks, they would get converted over once placed into a players pack or bank box.
Ok I see what you mean. Pretty much like Blizz handles gold in WoW. Each toon has its own gold over there tho, but there is no such thing as checks.

*edit* I kind of like our checks tho... I mean, it is one of the things that makes UO different. Regarding IDOCs, I've only seen checks drop at one IDOC in the last 4 years and that was 3 weeks ago. I picked up a bag with 36mil in it. Dont know how often that happens anywhere else tho.
 

Nexus

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Ok I see what you mean. Pretty much like Blizz handles gold in WoW. Each toon has its own gold over there tho, but there is no such thing as checks.

*edit* I kind of like our checks tho... I mean, it is one of the things that makes UO different. Regarding IDOCs, I've only seen checks drop at one IDOC in the last 4 years and that was 3 weeks ago. I picked up a bag with 36mil in it. Dont know how often that happens anywhere else tho.
That's pretty much how everyone else handles their in game currency these days.

Yea I don't mind the checks, it's just there comes a point where they start becoming impractical. I know that idocs don't drop huge sums of gold in the form of checks often, but even smaller amounts add up. I think I have a few million on Oceania a shard I don't even play because I made a toon there just for kicks and happened to walk up on an IDOC. I know of at least two people in the last 3 years who've pulled over 100million out of an IDOC, on Chessy. So while it's probably not overly common it does happen.
 

Taylor

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I just dont see how it would be equatable. This is why real tax systems aren't flat percentage taxes across all income brackets. The system would be too harsh on lower incomes.
Agreed. Rather than a flat tax or sales tax, I think an income tax would be more accommodating to the vast disparity between income levels.
 

kelmo

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[YOUTUBE]CP9_kkzfN-w[/YOUTUBE]
 
L

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Agreed. Rather than a flat tax or sales tax, I think an income tax would be more accommodating to the vast disparity between income levels.
Agreed, but in order to do so they would probably also have to implement some of NExus's ideas about account based gold. Otherwise all my transactions will be done with once char who keeps no gold other than what he needs to complete any given transaction. =)

I dont want to have to drag gold into my backpack though Nexus! Say no to excessive clicking!
 

Lord Raven

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1) Reduce all gold by 99.9% (1,000gps = 1gp) rounding off to nearest full gp. Any pile of gold with less than 500 gp would disappear...

...This isn't just about removing 0's. It's about making a gold piece worth something again. Right now, 1,000 gold isn't even worth looting.
Did you think that through? So some new or poor player gets to watch his bank balance virtually disappear? Your reduction wouldn't hurt the players with hundreds of millions or even billions of gold, but it sure would devastate the ones in the lower income brackets. Any pile of gold with less than 500gp disappears? What if that's all the player has?

You may not think 1000 gold isn't worth looting but I still consider that a nice chunk to get. It sounds like you have more gold than you can use... so why don't you start dropping 1mil checks around New Haven?

*Edit* Just as an afterthought... it seems that the folks who want goldsinks are usually the wealthiest players in the game. The OP specified having upwards of a billion gold. Perhaps some of you rich folk should dump ALL OF YOUR OWN GOLD and start as a new player and remember what it is like. Try making a million a day on a new players budget for armor, weapons and insurance. Sure it's easy to make millions when you have an elite armor and weapons, but that is not the case for many players.

If you really want to reduce the amount of gold players can accumulate, just eliminate vendors. Make folks sell their items in-person like the good ol days.
 

Taylor

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Agreed, but in order to do so they would probably also have to implement some of NExus's ideas about account based gold. Otherwise all my transactions will be done with once char who keeps no gold other than what he needs to complete any given transaction. =)

I dont want to have to drag gold into my backpack though Nexus! Say no to excessive clicking!
Very true, very true.
 

Nexus

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Agreed, but in order to do so they would probably also have to implement some of NExus's ideas about account based gold. Otherwise all my transactions will be done with once char who keeps no gold other than what he needs to complete any given transaction. =)

I dont want to have to drag gold into my backpack though Nexus! Say no to excessive clicking!
My reasoning was that I've seen numerous times in areas of large amounts of low level spawns people killing the monsters, and not looting the gold. People farming the upstairs portion of despise for hides off the lizardmen is a good example. This would provide an opportunity for newer players to collect that gold as they can and I've seen some do now to pad their own finances a bit.

Originally Posted by Setnaffa View Post
1) Reduce all gold by 99.9% (1,000gps = 1gp) rounding off to nearest full gp. Any pile of gold with less than 500 gp would disappear...

...This isn't just about removing 0's. It's about making a gold piece worth something again. Right now, 1,000 gold isn't even worth looting.
So when the newbies get nothing? Or at best 1 gold once they log in and are effected by the 1000 to 1 conversion?

And you missed what I've said over and over. The Value of Gold is not in it's quantity. It's in how much you can buy with it. 1000 gold or 1 gold it doesn't matter at all. Reducing gold to try and make it worth more won't help at all. You have to make the prices on things you buy with the gold come down so the gold actually has more buying power. Reducing Gold will not lower prices on items, at least not more than the the same % you remove from the game.

If you do a 10:1 or a 100:1 or even 1000000:1 reduction in Gold it solves nothing at all other than storage issues. The same people how had the economic capacity to buy what ever they wanted in game still will, because everyone would be hit by this not just those with billions of gold to toss around.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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My reasoning was that I've seen numerous times in areas of large amounts of low level spawns people killing the monsters, and not looting the gold. People farming the upstairs portion of despise for hides off the lizardmen is a good example. This would provide an opportunity for newer players to collect that gold as they can and I've seen some do now to pad their own finances a bit.
I figured that is where you were going with it ... i agree, since there is probably millions worth of "gold drain" going on every day due to people not looting gold, but man would i love to not have to drag so much crap into my backpack (and then try to make it stack! God stacking/selecting is horrible in the EC!)
 

Lord Raven

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..God stacking/selecting is horrible in the EC!)
I'm assuming you meant "gold" stacking...? The EC allows you to loot items from a corpse in a single right-click, and stacks it in your pouch automatically. That's one of my favorite features... gold is very easy to loot... along with everything else. Maybe you've got it set up wrong?

(Also with your containers set to grid/list mode you don't have stuff buried under runebooks, etc. like the classic client.)
 

Nexus

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I figured that is where you were going with it ... i agree, since there is probably millions worth of "gold drain" going on every day due to people not looting gold, but man would i love to not have to drag so much crap into my backpack (and then try to make it stack! God stacking/selecting is horrible in the EC!)
I use Pinco's UI I can set a loot bag.. Find something I want I just right click it, even have it set up where gold goes to my main pack and items to unravel to a bag...
 
N

NoBuddy

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*Edit* Just as an afterthought... it seems that the folks who want goldsinks are usually the wealthiest players in the game. The OP specified having upwards of a billion gold. Perhaps some of you rich folk should dump ALL OF YOUR OWN GOLD and start as a new player and remember what it is like. Try making a million a day on a new players budget for armor, weapons and insurance. Sure it's easy to make millions when you have an elite armor and weapons, but that is not the case for many players.

If you really want to reduce the amount of gold players can accumulate, just eliminate vendors. Make folks sell their items in-person like the good ol days.
Did YOU think it through? You act as if the money was simply given to people, not that they earned it. Perhaps those without the millions should work themselves up like those with millions did. Enough of the welfare state mentality. If they were to reduce gold, the only just way to do so would be to reduce across the board.

The real answer is for there to be something(s) worthy within UO to buy from vendors, etc. with all those millions. As it sits, money simply transfers player hands. Gold is dumped into the economy, but not taken out via a market driven mechanism.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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... What? You mean i dont have to click and drag everything? Things will autostack with one click?... *GASP*

Do i need Pinco's or is this just a feature of the EC i havent figured out how to turn on yet (althought i HATE the list view if that is what is required) ?
 

Nexus

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... What? You mean i dont have to click and drag everything? Things will autostack with one click?... *GASP*

Do i need Pinco's or is this just a feature of the EC i havent figured out how to turn on yet (althought i HATE the list view if that is what is required) ?

It's a standard EC feature, Pinco's just lets me do the loot bag for unravel junk vs gold I want to keep :p
 

Lord Raven

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... What? You mean i dont have to click and drag everything? Things will autostack with one click?... *GASP*

Do i need Pinco's or is this just a feature of the EC i havent figured out how to turn on yet (althought i HATE the list view if that is what is required) ?

It's a feature of the EC, I don't use any 3rd party add-ons. I'll take a look at the options and see if I can direct you to what you might have to change... works in list or grid view...
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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Does it work in Classic view? That is the one i use, the others make the item's picture so small i cant see it (due to the low res i'm sure).
 

Lord Raven

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Did YOU think it through? You act as if the money was simply given to people, not that they earned it. Perhaps those without the millions should work themselves up like those with millions did. Enough of the welfare state mentality. If they were to reduce gold, the only just way to do so would be to reduce across the board.

The real answer is for there to be something(s) worthy within UO to buy from vendors, etc. with all those millions. As it sits, money simply transfers player hands. Gold is dumped into the economy, but not taken out via a market driven mechanism.
WHAT? Welfare state? I'm just standing up for new/young/returning players that don't have the advantage of elite armor/weps and would suffer tremendously if some of the ideas being discussed here were actually implemented.

And, as I pointed out... it seems to be the folks that have the MOST gold always complain about there being too much. It's apparent that we have a class system in UO and the richest players have gotten very comfortable with their wealth and are trying very hard to keep anyone else from getting into the clubhouse!

If you have so much gold that there is nothing left worth buying then you have TOO MUCH gold. Start a guild to help new players, or find a guild with a good reputation and donate gold to them. Generosity and welfare are not the same thing.
 

Lord Raven

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Does it work in Classic view? That is the one i use, the others make the item's picture so small i cant see it (due to the low res i'm sure).

Do you have Legacy Containers checked under Options/Legacy?

That disables the single click ability... You need use EC containers... since you don't like list mode... just use grid view... you can select that as a default.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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Ya, i do. =(

I only like the legacy containers view. Old habits die hard. I'll give the grid view another chance tonight and see if i can't force myself to keep it that way. Thanks!
 

virtualhabitat

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Someone already mentioned (I think it was Nexus) that the inflation experienced with UO gold is not in the quantity of gold, but in how much stuff you can buy with the quantity available.

UO gold economy doesn not work exactly like a modern real life economy in that the UO banking system does not control the introduction of gold. The UO banking system doesn't even charge or pay interest and it doesn't loan money. These mechanisms are commonly manipulated by central banks to control the money supply in a given modern economy. UO does not have that luxury.

Instead if you look at what Nexus is saying (I hope I am staying on the mark here) the easiest way to reduce inflation in UO is to introduce more tangible value into the economy. That means more goods to be bought and sold. Ideally, I would think that UO players would want goods manufactured by players rather than more loot stuff. Goods manufactured by players could theoretically be introduced into the economy more quickly assuming the resources needed to manufacture such goods were available.

The trick is to be able to introduce goods at a rate similar to the rate gold is created. Unfortunately because there is inflation, goods will have to be introduced more quickly than gold for a period of time then slowed down once a balance is approached.

Once enough of the goods that people buy are introduced into the economy the overall inflation will reduce and prices generally will fall.

Some say that the rate of gold should be reduced and there is some logic to this solution as it appears to work in tandem with increasing goods. The problem with reducing the flow of gold is that it immediately penalizes the poorest members of the community. Particularly if the increase of goods does NOT accompany the reduction in the gold flow.

Increasing goods, especially player manufactured goods that people want to buy, would lower prices of those goods and would give more people access to increased circulation of existing gold that would occur with an increase of lower priced goods.

In short, increase player ability to manufacture more high end goods with fewer or less expensive overhead costs -at least for a little while, so that more value can be added to the economy.
 
N

NoBuddy

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But you're talking different things. OP's question was regarding removing the large masses of gold from game. If that is desired result, the only way to do so would be evenly reduce gold quantity.

Lower costs to create more goods to sell still only has gold transferring player hands, it does NOT draw money from the economy. It does quite the opposite. If the purpose is to pull money from the economy, there needs to be an hefty increase in costs of goods sold by NPC vendors, or new class of vendors with high dollar items for purchase.

But much of the talk here is about equalizing buying power by systematically penalizing those with large sums of money to boost those with little, hence the welfare state mentality. It's called redistribution of wealth. It does not work.

Edit: There's all kinds of examples of things people have wanted over the years that would not impact game play dramatically, but would help reduce the amount of gold in the economy. Just for example, I would gladly pay 10mil or some other reasonable amount for a mechanism to insta-bond a newly tamed pet. NPC stable master could sell bonding treats or whatever. How about additional bank space from bankers, or housing storage from real estate broker? All kinds of things can be done in this fashion.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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The problem is that when the devs come up with a great money sink idea lately they attach a real world value to it instead (or in addition to) a in game value. I understand this, in that these micro transactions are likely keeping UO alive ... but universally helpful, non-necessary, gimmicky things would go great for in game gold.
 

Tina Small

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I have 100 of millions. Maybe a billion from selling items. Just bought 23 Holiday tickets for 350k each and sold them in 1 hour for 900k each. Gold is easy to make if you play and learn.

I wanted to get to the point of a simple way to reduce gold.
Give it all away and start playing on Siege.

:lick:
 

Nexus

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Instead if you look at what Nexus is saying (I hope I am staying on the mark here) the easiest way to reduce inflation in UO is to introduce more tangible value into the economy. That means more goods to be bought and sold. Ideally, I would think that UO players would want goods manufactured by players rather than more loot stuff. Goods manufactured by players could theoretically be introduced into the economy more quickly assuming the resources needed to manufacture such goods were available.
You pretty much got it, except one catch, the items people really want, can't be created by players, equivalent items can't even be created through imbuing. Now I understand the concept of rarity for Artifacts, I do, but when demand out paces supply by such a gross amount inflation occurs. Some artifacts have become the center piece for everyone's equipment outside crafters, and non-combatants.

Some examples.

Powerscrolls - Every Fel spawn should drop at least 1, 120 scroll, this would greatly help. It makes it less of a crap shoot, too often people get a bunch of 110's or mix of 110's and 115's. With the number of potential scrolls available it keeps prices on 120's High, and 120 skill is often a necessity as monsters have gotten tougher and Templates have gotten more specialized. Having at least 1 per spawn drop guaranteed would do a lot to deflate prices on Scrolls.


Crimmies - Less than 5% drop rate is what I heard, the problem with these is two fold. For everyday PvM players they are hard to get, for PvP players they are very desirable, and it's shameful that those that PvP and don't want to engage in factions have to compete with folks that have a vending machine for them. In short now Crimmies aren't rare, just ones that anyone can use. If they dropped 8% of the time vs less than 5% I think we'd see the value deflating.

Slither - another desirable item, they sell on some shards for over 50mil because of rarity, I know in the past 20 Medusa runs I've done solo I've gotten 2 stone dragon's tooth, and a Ironwood bow, and 3 of the staffs. 6 drops out of 20 runs and none were the rare one which is fine, but 6 drops in 20 runs, where being entitled based on damage wasn't a factor, seems to me she's a bit stingy all the way around. Though this could be my horrid luck with RNG, but considering how rare it is I see one for sale I don't think so.

Tangle - See the Crimmy though it's drop rate isn't near as bad.


Now I'm not complaining just about items I want, at one point or another excluding the Tangle I've obtained every item I mentioned through normal game play at least once, but it's the infrequency these items appear that yields the absurd prices in combination to it's desirability.

Players can't make imbued half aprons, players can't make Tali's, we can't make glasses. There is a broad avenue of what we can and can't make as players, and there are good reasons for some of it. But if stand in the middle of that street, between the affordable commodities, and those that have extremely high prices, the line is drawn between Rare Drops, and Everything else.

The Enchanted Kelp Woven Leggings are a prime example, they aren't rare by any means. On Chessy I can pick them up for 40k-45k a pair all day, yet they are probably the single most underrated item for use in Suit building in the game at this moment. Even looking at the insurance costs of 800gp a death tells you they pack a lot of mods into one piece of equipment. They are cheap because they are very obtainable.
 

Nexus

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But you're talking different things. OP's question was regarding removing the large masses of gold from game. If that is desired result, the only way to do so would be evenly reduce gold quantity.
The two problems are still directly linked, if you remove gold from the game, across the board, without effecting prices of things people want to buy, you only further alienate players who haven't accumulated enough gold in game for this to be an issue to start with. You can't justify removing gold from the top 10-15% of gold possessors in UO as being fair, and at the same time you can't justify removing it evenly across the board since it will effect Joe Newbie, who's got a whopping 20k to his name right now. For Daddy Warbucks the reduction of gold across the board lets him keep his status and buying power in game, but for Joe Newbie his fledgling nest egg has been devastated.
 
N

NoBuddy

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If everything becomes so easily available, the accomplishment of attaining lessens, therefore people stop doing peerless, etc. You have to give people something to strive for, things SHOULD be hard to come by. Many people have worked long and hard to gather the gear, to learn the techniques and such to do Dread Horns, Medusa's and such to get the high end gear. Tho I use them to stay on even playing field for PvP, I think faction arties was a terrible idea. As was imbuing. Hardly any pride left in building an amazing suit.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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The Enchanted Kelp Woven Leggings are a prime example, they aren't rare by any means. On Chessy I can pick them up for 40k-45k a pair all day, yet they are probably the single most underrated item for use in Suit building in the game at this moment. Even looking at the insurance costs of 800gp a death tells you they pack a lot of mods into one piece of equipment. They are cheap because they are very obtainable.
Agreed with all of your examples. I havent been back to UO that long, and i dont PvP, so the only arty i can think of that i have on my characters right now is the Kelp Legs. Everything else is imbued and better than the other arties i had from a couple years back (now gear inflation ... that is another can of worms ;) )

I have had ZERO luck with the RNG for getting any arty drops on the runs i've done ... let alone good drops. And the problem is compounded by the fact that an undergeared character does less damage and therefore has less of a shot of getting looting rights and arty drops in group hunts. =)
 
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Woodsman

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Any kind of additional fees within the game are going to just **** people off, because people already pay a monthly fee.

I still think slowing down the amount of gold coming in, combined with massive one-off account-bound voluntary gold sinks are the way to go. They have to be completely voluntary though and non-essential. The last thing you want is something major that would throw a clear line up between the haves and have nots. Pixel crack is an appropriate term. As long as gold is easy to generate, whether it's scripters or loot drops, there's a problem and I disagree with the devs who think it should be easier to get.

I would be tempted to push for a lot more account-bound stuff, although for different reasons than why it's so big in Warcraft and other games. Those games are designed to keep you moving up the ladder and don't want you hanging around or being able to easily sell off gear you use. Lack of housing also helps them in that aspect since your storage is limited, and they discourage you becoming attached to anything.

I would like to see EM items become account-bound and not be traded/picked up by other people. That's pretty controversial, I know.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

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I would like to see EM items become account-bound and not be traded/picked up by other people. That's pretty controversial, I know.
Only controversial in that currently it is the only way i've found to grow my UO bank account by anymore more than insignificant numbers. I would much rather keep my EM items, but when someone offers you 5x the amount of gold you have TOTAL for one silly item ... you take it. At least until you have al lthe 120 scrolls you need. HEck that just let me buy a handful of 120s. Now i need to find time to attend another event and hope i get lucky enough to get the drop and be able to buy a handful more 120 scrolls. Five down, 13 more to go!
 
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