Rate the Expansions

[Sneaky Que]

Now that we have another expansion lets rate the 8 from best to worst.

1 = best
8 = worst

*****

1. The Second Age - UO was at it's best here.

2. Stygian Abyss - Really enjoying it so far.

With these two the positives far outweigh the negatives. The same cannot be said of the rest.

3. Lord Blackthorn's Revenge - My hate for some of the other expansion's content is the only reason this is so high up the list.

4. Mondain's Legacy - Poorly made and unfinished IMO. Better than some...

5. Age of Shadows - This had some great stuff like custom houses etc, but the item system killed off what was left of old UO after Ren.

6. Samurai Empire - For years after it the game was horribly unbalanced because of ninja and bushido, Tokuno is a wasteland except when TOT is on. Quite poor, could of been much better.

7. Third Dawn - I don't care what people say about the KR and SA clients, TD was and will always be the WORST attempt at a game client I think I have ever seen. The old '3D' client was nothing short of an embarrassment to UO. A pity because this expansion also introduced Ilsh which I really like.

8. Renaissance - Trammel. I need say no more.

 

[Ender]

1. Renaissance - Trammel. I need say no more.


2-8. I'll list them later

 

[Warsong of LS]

1. The Second Age - yes, new lands, creatures, pretty well balanced

2. The Stygian Abyss - really liking this expansion, still learning though

3. Third Dawn - like the new land, new client sucked

4. Lord Blackthorn's Revenge - just filled in the donut hole in the ilshenar map

5. Samurai Empire - like the lands- though sammys and ninjas seem out of place to me and very buggy

6. Age of Shadows - really hated that I now needed a calculator to add up my resists and suit building, I really liked the whole supremely accurate, silver, etc tags on weapons and armor

7. Mondain's Legacy - worse expansion in the existance of UO, very unbalanced, and even when warned by beta testers the inbalance items when in anyways and it took years to correct.

8.* Renaissance - can this really be called an expansion? I did not buy it, it was patched in at no cost to then current players. Only new accounts needed to buy it. Though I have always felt that fel/tram split should have been flipped - ie banishing the pvpers to the new ""its not a mirror!" -Sunsword" mirror of the world. Thereby preserving all the player run towns/communities that had sprung up in what became felucca over the years.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

1. SA: Largest and most intensive expansion to date and the one with the best Ultima connection.

2. Renn: While not handled in the best way to retain what players had built, it WAS necessary to the long term survival of the game. It's no coincidence that full loot non-con PvP in fantasy MMOGs has been a consistent failure. UO's saving grace at the time was established cannon and a lack of true competition.

3. T2A: Ranked highly due to the game still being "new" at the time. Other than that... T2A didn't really have a lot going for it in comparison and would be a joke of an expansion today. As it is, the T2A lands in Trammel are in DIRE need of a reason to continue to exist.

4. Third Dawn: The first attempt at pushing Uo forward technologically was done too early and handled poorly. So why the higher rating? Because it launched one of the best PvM facets in the game: Ilshenar. Later improvements made the facet even better. Biggest failure was releasing the new client too early followed by backpedaling on the "need new cient for new content" position.

5. SE: A decently created facet with housing involved, but a facet that really only sees population when ToT are active.

6. AOS: Good points are that it brought customizable housing, Chivalry and Necromancy (after years of demands for Necromancy after a completely buggy failure of an orignal necro system). However this has been pretty well ignored for complaints about the new item system which is decent in theory, but again the victim of poor implementation, lack of balance, and loading the most desirable items in one location instead of spreading the content out. Also, the Trailer park of Malas and The highway robbery of Luna needs a mention.

7. ML: A valiant attempt at revamping existing lands falls flat due to scripted crafting quests.

8. Last and by FAR least: Lord Borgthorn's Revenge. The ONLY expansion that literally added NOTHING as Ilshenar already existed. But hey, you were forced to buy an ugly toy doll with every account you wanted to upgrade at full retail price thanks to the contract with McFarlane, thus the absolute "need" to shoehorn in defunct UO2 creature models with nno apparent rhyme or reason... oh yeah and Yew was a swamp.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

#1 : UO:T2A... by far had the best introduction, the best sense of new lands to explore, and is only overshadowed by the fact that had Designer Dragon not left UO, those empty spaces that were intentionally put there for communities to form in by house placement would actually have been filled. Sadly, that never came to pass.

#2 : UO:SA... This expansion had a great lead in, lots of stuff to do, and actually has made me feel like exploring, fighting, imbuing, and all kinds of stuff. I'm actually actively playing UO on a daily basis again... I don't remember the last time that was the case.

#3 : UO:LBR... The lead-up to LBR was well handled, and while all it really did was give Ilshenar to the 2D players, they had the decency to add the new central area to the map (this is also the expansion in which they learned how to patch the map, which was a great boon to the game).

#4 : UO:3D... Ilshenar was a great time to explore and adventure in. Not being able to recall gave you the sense of being alone, but with the convenient moongates, you were never too far from civilization. Ilshenar, sadly, has been overcome by the paragons, which spawn far too often, IMO.

#5 : UO:SE... Tokuno had a sense of flavor to it, and plenty to explore. It just really, honestly, fell short of feeling complete.

#6 : UO:ML... As I was saying recently to a friend, dollar for dollar, what I'm getting out of SA is so much more than we got out of ML. ML gave us elves, and that was cool. The recipe system was/is flawed and should not have been introduced into the game... it caused silliness like crafting a south facing statue, but you couldn't craft the matching east facing one without another recipe. The peerless are nice, but not the best addition the game ever saw, and that's all we really got. A small handful of tiny dungeons.

#7 : UO:R... I don't really count this as an expansion, because you didn't have to buy it to continue to play the game. It was a new player only purchase, really. However, it did introduce Trammel. I will forever argue that the murderers should have packed up and been forced to Trammel, not the communities that were already built and in-place... the morning Trammel went live was the morning that community in UO changed forever, and it was not good. That said, the PvP+/- thing HAD to happen for UO's survival.

#8 : UO:AoS... After years and years of the Necromancy joke, followed by years of "We'll never implement Necromancy," the Necromancy system of 16 spells began the long running "No new skill will ever have more than 16 spells associated with it," trend. Doom, while touted as "the biggest dungeon ever!" was really only slightly bigger than Shame, had less to do than Shame, and was only bigger because the Gauntlet has ridiculously oversized rooms for running around in. The overworld is completely devoid of interesting anything, and aside from being at trailer park and holding the Vendor Capital of the World, AoS was really, really, really bad, and if Malas blew up tomorrow, I might not cry. For being the first expansion to introduce new skills, it was also the least exciting, "Here, have a small dungeon to explore" expansion ever conceived and released.

 

[Specialshoes]

1. The Second Age -Wasn't around for but would have been number 1

2. Stygian Abyss - Really enjoying it so far.

3. Ren - Jumped aboard just after release

4. Samurai Empire - Ninja's are just cool

5. Mondains - Was a good start at trying to revive the game

6. LBR - Eh don't really remember what was introduced besides Islh to 2d (I thnk)

7. 3d - Big f'n deal

8. Age of Shadows - This one just hurt alot of things

 

[guum]

...
3. T2A: Ranked highly due to the game still being "new" at the time. Other than that... T2A didn't really have a lot going for it in comparison and would be a joke of an expansion today. As it is, the T2A lands in Trammel are in DIRE need of a reason to continue to exist.

Pretty much my thinking on T2A. Seriously rose-tinted glasses are donned whenever this expansion is mentioned. There wasn't a lot of new content to it, not a single blessed wandering healer in the whole new geography, annoying terrain that is difficult to cross with tons of dead ends and maze-like topographical changes, and two very weak, quite uninteresting towns. I remember not bothering to upgrade to it for a couple of months after it came out, and then when I finally did, having wished that I had saved my money.

 

[Uriah Heep]

#1 thru 7
Any expansion in any order...it wont matter =)

#8. That POS they call AoS...still has the game ruined for some, not everyone likes playing with a calculator, and some people enjoyed the simple names on weaps and armor, and just having magic resist and AR.
Never understood why they felt the need to do that, never heard anyone asking for it...
It was like they just woke up one day and said "Let's totally screw this up, and toss in housing while we're at it!"

*shrugs*

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I have the same rose colored glasses for T2A as most people do as well, however it's tempered with KNOWING that an expansion like T2A in today's UO would be considered mediocre to "not worth the effort". T2A was released when the game was in a MUCH simpler state and before the more "theme park" aspects of MMOG had taken hold, so actual quest content was non-existant.

If you look at the map for the T2A area, you'll notice that it is a 4 across by 7 down grid of individual map pieces stitched together and while there were a few "hot spots" (Cyclops Valley, Terathan Keep), much of the area was regarded as "useless".

Without the more advanced content of later expansions (especially SA), releasing T2A in today's UO world would be a non-event, completely overlooked.

However, for its time, being the first expansion to UO at all and the timeframe in which it occurs does give it special consideration and place it higher than the mid to later expansions (post UO:R, pre SA).

 

[Nexus]

Here's my Listing...

1. UO: REN At the time it was necessary, Full on PvP is not something any other MMO in the way UO did at the time. Yes others had it but on separate servers.
2. UO: SA Yes it's new, but it's launch has been pretty smooth by comparison to others and included a lot of new content.
3. UO: T2A Necessary at the time, it really was a good thing for UO, though now those lands are more or less abandoned worse than the original Britannia.
4. UO: ML Yes I think it was a good expansion. It brought a good bit of content, while spreading out the Goodies to other places than just Doom. And before anyone starts complaining think of this. How many of you use a ML introduced item for PvP or PvM. Community Collections anyone?
5. UO:SE Decent though I think it was more for the growing Asian player base. It could have been better, Tokuno is fun but under utilized outside The Citadel.
6. UO: LBR I liked this one but it's where a lot of the things that people consider "Broke" UO have their roots. BODs, Runics [though they had different effects].
7. UO: 3D I liked the expansion just not the client that came with it. Ilshenar had a lot of good features, some of which were changed [mumbles about ore elemental spawns].
8. UO: AoS Craptastic!! It changed the way everything in UO was done more or less. Many of it's biggest faults are still reverberating today. Like ermm how Platemail Armor is a bigger load of Swamp Dragon Offal than Leather....

 

[Sneaky Que]

2. Renn: While not handled in the best way to retain what players had built, it WAS necessary to the long term survival of the game. It's no coincidence that full loot non-con PvP in fantasy MMOGs has been a consistent failure. UO's saving grace at the time was established cannon and a lack of true competition.

There is absolutely no evidence of this. In fact it is quite the opposite; there was a steadily increasing population during t2a and the majority of the players at the time loved the way UO was and did not want it to change. When Tram came in there was a mass exodos of players who left the game and never came back. UO was THE MOST POPULATED MMO IN THE WORLD during t2a, something it has never reclaimed since (http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html).

Those players are still out there, most of them play on freeshards that allow them to play the UO they once loved. Some are constantly waiting for the 'next UO' to come out (Darkfall was one such game) to fill that void that has been there since Ren. Full loot/non conc PvP was one of the things that made UO so successful in the early days and probably the number one thing that old players reminis about. Pre-Ren UO paved the way for UO to continue to be successful 12 years down the track.

I personally know 3 people IRL that used to play UO pre-Ren that will never come back to UO the way it is now. There are hundereds of thousands of players in this position.

The views of today's UO population is not an accurate reflection of the mood or views of the players of the past.

This is the last post on this subject I will make in this thread in an attempt not to derail it into a Fel Vs Tram war.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

During T2A, UO was the ONLY MMOG on the market. The whole genre of true MMOGs was still in its infancy. It's no secret that EQ's numbers QUICKLY eclipsed UO after its release and that UO's growth curve started to flatten considerably before UO:R was released.

Also, as stated, every other Fantasy genre MMOG that has tried the non-con full PvP system has been a lot of bluster and no result... first Shadowbane which is no longer even on the radar and now Darkfall which barely made a blip.

For every person you can bring forward as "having left because of UO:R", there are just as many if not more that would have left without UO:R, or came back because of UO:R.

There's NO coincidence that the largest fantasy based MMOGs retain the CHOICE to be involved in PvP (beyond "stay in town").

For all its faults (mainly implementation), UO:R assured UO's longevity. You may agree or not with the concept of what UO:R brought, but the results are plain as day, and thus why UO:R deserves high mention.

 

[Lord Frodo]

There is absolutely no evidence of this. In fact it is quite the opposite; there was a steadily increasing population during t2a and the majority of the players at the time loved the way UO was and did not want it to change. When Tram came in there was a mass exodos of players who left the game and never came back. UO was THE MOST POPULATED MMO IN THE WORLD during t2a, something it has never reclaimed since (http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html).

Those players are still out there, most of them play on freeshards that allow them to play the UO they once loved. Some are constantly waiting for the 'next UO' to come out (Darkfall was one such game) to fill that void that has been there since Ren. Full loot/non conc PvP was one of the things that made UO so successful in the early days and probably the number one thing that old players reminis about. Pre-Ren UO paved the way for UO to continue to be successful 12 years down the track.

I personally know 3 people IRL that used to play UO pre-Ren that will never come back to UO the way it is now. There are hundereds of thousands of players in this position.

The views of today's UO population is not an accurate reflection of the mood or views of the players of the past.

This is the last post on this subject I will make in this thread in an attempt not to derail it into a Fel Vs Tram war.

Your joking right? I know 10 people that quit and came back after Ren. So my 10 beat your 3. UO was losing subs because of the BS. UO-R to pre AoS subs went form less than 100K to about 350K because of TRAM and being able to get away from the BS PKers. You need to really take off the ROSE COLORED GLASSES.

 

[Lord Frodo]

#1 UO-R
#2-6 open
#7 UO-3D Opening up a land to only 1 client.
#8 AoS If I could put this at a 10 I would.

 

[Uvtha]

Now that we have another expansion lets rate the 8 from best to worst.

1 = best
8 = worst

*****

1. The Second Age - UO was at it's best here.

2. Stygian Abyss - Really enjoying it so far.

With these two the positives far outweigh the negatives. The same cannot be said of the rest.

3. Lord Blackthorn's Revenge - My hate for some of the other expansion's content is the only reason this is so high up the list.

4. Mondain's Legacy - Poorly made and unfinished IMO. Better than some...

5. Age of Shadows - This had some great stuff like custom houses etc, but the item system killed off what was left of old UO after Ren.

6. Samurai Empire - For years after it the game was horribly unbalanced because of ninja and bushido, Tokuno is a wasteland except when TOT is on. Quite poor, could of been much better.

7. Third Dawn - I don't care what people say about the KR and SA clients, TD was and will always be the WORST attempt at a game client I think I have ever seen. The old '3D' client was nothing short of an embarrassment to UO. A pity because this expansion also introduced Ilsh which I really like.

8. Renaissance - Trammel. I need say no more.

Agreed. Good order.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

There is absolutely no evidence of this. In fact it is quite the opposite; there was a steadily increasing population during t2a and the majority of the players at the time loved the way UO was and did not want it to change. When Tram came in there was a mass exodos of players who left the game and never came back. UO was THE MOST POPULATED MMO IN THE WORLD during t2a, something it has never reclaimed since (http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html).

Actually, if you will re-examine the statistics that you are pointing to, you'll notice that after the Renaissance release in 2000, that there was a sharp INCREASE in subscribers, and that it did not actually begin to decline largely until 2004.

The fact is, regardless of how many of you who are blind to how a lot of players felt about non-con PVP, a VAST majority of the playerbase was not interested in getting ganked in dungeons, and for a great many players, Renaissance was their first opportunity to visit the dungeons of the game in any great detail. Mind you, I wasn't among them, because I led a very successful anti-PK guild on Great Lakes, but you'd have to have been blind not to know how people felt about being steadily PKed.

Now, how they handled the PVP situation with UO:R was far from ideal, but that's a whole different discussion.

Those players are still out there, most of them play on freeshards that allow them to play the UO they once loved. Some are constantly waiting for the 'next UO' to come out (Darkfall was one such game) to fill that void that has been there since Ren. Full loot/non conc PvP was one of the things that made UO so successful in the early days and probably the number one thing that old players reminis about. Pre-Ren UO paved the way for UO to continue to be successful 12 years down the track.

It's interesting, if revisionistic history, to suggest that this is true.

I personally know 3 people IRL that used to play UO pre-Ren that will never come back to UO the way it is now. There are hundereds of thousands of players in this position.

No, there are not hundreds of thousands of players in this position. You'll notice that same chart you referred to indicates that UO's subscriber base never exceeded 250,000. The peak period of UO's subscriber base was between UO:3D and UO:SE. Otherwise known as "The Period After Renaissance." The fact that post Renaissance, UO's subscriber base jumped from about 150,000 to 250,000 within a year indicates that not only did UO recover every player lost because of UO:R, it also GAINED a significant number of players.

There are not hundreds of thousands of anyone waiting for a Pre-Ren shard. There is ZERO evidence to support your claim.

The views of today's UO population is not an accurate reflection of the mood or views of the players of the past.

You're correct. However, the views of the players of the past that you are specifically referring to ARE the players who DIRECTLY CAUSED UO:R to happen. Understand that. There is a DIRECT correlation between those two things.

This is the last post on this subject I will make in this thread in an attempt not to derail it into a Fel Vs Tram war.

This might also have to do with the shaky, shaky ground on which your arguments are based.