Random Idea 4 Buffing up Mages in PvP....(No words of power seen vs dexxers )

[Berethrain]

I personally like the idea of encrypted spellwords to players who dont have magery of necro.

I don't disagree.

I sometimes think it would be cool if dexers never missed and mages could never get disrupted. I think this would make battle more interesting and make it to where the items you have and use were even more important.

Mages can use protection to avoid fizzles unless they have shoddy skill. If dexers always hit it would ruin the balance.

Me personally would like to see it less item based and more skill based like it was before. Running around naked with a spear and using what random armor you could find was a good time.

 

[red sky]

I like the "begins to cast spell" thing. They should also add a graphic to tell what type of spell is being casted. This could be seen in the old 3D, where fire spells would show up as a fiery sparkle and heal would be aqua green sparkles. That way any type of fire spell would have that fiery color, ect. My only complaint so far is the trapped boxes not being a consumable. They should have a limited amount of uses on them. I don't believe that they were meant to act as they do nowadays.

 

[Vexxed]

o2bavr6 Said:

I personally like the idea of encrypted spellwords to players who dont have magery of necro.

Berethrain Said:

I don't disagree.

OK.. Now that you have both Agreed that you Argree...

Here's the proposal I like most ...

----------------------------------------------------
1) Your Magery skill determines your % chance to see EXACT words of power for other Magery Spells. 20 Magery = 20% , 100 Magery = 100%

2) Your Necromancy skill determines your % chance to see EXACT words of power for other Necromany Spells. 20 Necromancy = 20% , 100 Necromancy = 100%

3) Inscription Skill Determines your % chance to see EXACT words of power for BOTH Magery & Necromancy spells. 20 Inscription = 20% & 100 Inscription = 100% (What scribe wouldn't know the exact words for Mage & Necro spell after scribing so many scrolls ?)

4) If you FAIL to "ID" what spell is being cast you still see

*Begins to Cast a Spell*

above the casters Head.. so you know something is coming

END RESULTS:

Necro-Mage vs Scribe Mage = No change they both know what's being cast

Necro-Mage vs Tamer Mage = Tamer mage can't see Necro spells.. but Necro or anyone else for that matter has no clue what the Dread Mare is going to do next anyway.

Scribe-Mage vs Tamer Mage: No change they both know what's being cast.

Any HUMAN dexxer vs any (Necro / Tamer / Scribe) Mage = Dexxer knows EXACTLY what 20% of the spells are and still sees the message

*Begins casting a spell*

When he fails to know EXACTLY what's being cast... thus Mages get a bit of a buff vs Dexxers and catching a dexxer by surprise & not having them offscreen becomes more likely....

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Even though I like the idea...I do not like adding anything that will lead to additional lag through the processing of information through the already crappy RNG.

 

[kelmo]

Speaking of lag... *laughs at RC's double post* Ironic...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Speaking of lag... *laughs at RC's double post* Ironic...

lol...stupid lag...



(fixed dbl post)

 

[Vexxed]

I do not like adding anything that will lead to additional lag through the processing of information through the already crappy RNG.

Semms to me that Replacing

Kal - Vas - Flam

with

*Begins Casting a Spell*

Woudln't cause any additional lag...... Who knows though ??? The ability to have text visible to one character and not to another could be something they cannot do currently. I just thought the idea was a good one so I posted.

 

[o2bavr6]

Semms to me that Replacing

Kal - Vas - Flam

with

*Begins Casting a Spell*

Woudln't cause any additional lag...... Who knows though ??? The ability to have text visible to one character and not to another could be something they cannot do currently. I just thought the idea was a good one so I posted.

It would seem that they could use the same system that they have with spirit speak and ghost words.

 

[Vexxed]

Ahh good call on the Spirit Speak system, I totally forgot about that. I think it would be pretty doable etc.. but it's just a matter of getting people to think it actually needs doing lol.

 

[o2bavr6]

Ahh good call on the Spirit Speak system, I totally forgot about that. I think it would be pretty doable etc.. but it's just a matter of getting people to think it actually needs doing lol.

Hehe lets see... getting two people to agree on something can be hard enough... now to get the entire UO community to agree...

Of all the ideas i have seen posted on these forums, this is one of the top.

 

[WarUltima]

Ahh good call on the Spirit Speak system, I totally forgot about that. I think it would be pretty doable etc.. but it's just a matter of getting people to think it actually needs doing lol.

With the spirit speak system it's still very obvious on what you are casting, especially for those mage players who knows WoP to a degree on dexer.

Mini Heal (In Mani) will be displayed something like "oO Oooo" while
Ebolt (Corp Por) will be displayed as "OoOO oOo"
In Vas Mani would be "oO Ooo OoOO"

You get the idea. But its still better than the current "no brainer dexer running offscreen if you see explosion/ebolt/flame strike to never die" system.

 

[Magneto2272]

tell you what... when mage spells START TO MISS LIKE WHEN A DEXXER SWINGS AND MISSES, then it's balanced. as is, there are already too many davantages a mage has over a dexxer. when is the last time you saw a dexxer casting fields to control an entire area? this is just the tip of the iceberg...

literally every reference ive heard so far about how someone things a dexxer has for an advantage over a mage is LITERALLY in reference to ARCHERS. one-tile radius melee dexxers are if anything ACUTELY disadvantaged in pvp.

Archer/Mage Online 4TW

 

[red sky]

tell you what... when mage spells START TO MISS LIKE WHEN A DEXXER SWINGS AND MISSES

Wouldn't when a mage fizzles a spell from a swack upside the head be considered missing? I've never seen a dexer miss a hit when they get flamestriked. Oh and BTW, there's a spell called "evasion" out there that can in fact make it to where a mage "misses" you. Not that running off when you see explosion pop up is bad enough.

 

[WarUltima]

Wouldn't when a mage fizzles a spell from a swack upside the head be considered missing? I've never seen a dexer miss a hit when they get flamestriked. Oh and BTW, there's a spell called "evasion" out there that can in fact make it to where a mage "misses" you. Not that running off when you see explosion pop up is bad enough.

Word.

And also what mage spell is uninterruptable that can be cast in 1.25 dmg and deals at least 35dmg vs 70 resists? None. What kind of uniterruptable mage spell can deal 20ish spell damage+extra hit spell+concussion damage (up to 35 bonus dmg). What kind of spell mage use to mortal strike dexer so they cant 4/6 instant heal, oh throw in healing skill and confidence.

Dexers have many advantages over mages especially in 1v1 regardless if you are archer. Saying the current ultima online is Archer/Mage Online is a funny joke. You see ANY bigger spell coming you can run offscreen but mages cant see a big warning sigh over your head saying "ARMOR IGNORE" or "CONCUSSION BLOW" and run away AFTER you started swinging. But you sure as hell can run away AFTER a mage started to cast and leavng spell range before they can finish casting with little problem, and this is ASSUMING you give them all the time they needed to FINISH their big spell in the first place. If you die to a mage running protection...... dont pvp anymore.

You think mage is powerful because of the versatility. If you are dying to any mage (excluding tamer mage) 1v1 you are a terrible dexer. Mages are only powerful in a group/gank squad with called target. Otherwise a mage is nothing but a fielding/xhealing bot.

When I play a dexer I might not be able to kill a mage if he's timing is great and I dont have hit fireball weapon. But I have never been killed by a mage in any one on one fight because I CAN RUN AWAY ANYTIME I WANT TO and that renders any combo useless and I dont die to magic arrow fireball spam......


Edit: Since some dexers cant seem to fight mages right. The basic never die to mages 1v1 rule: Run offscreen if you whiff on a big spell, stick if you interrupt.

 

[Splup]

Mages need some way to prevent dexers just run out of screen healing while running everytime they go 50 % HP.

 

[Magneto2272]

Wouldn't when a mage fizzles a spell from a swack upside the head be considered missing? I've never seen a dexer miss a hit when they get flamestriked. Oh and BTW, there's a spell called "evasion" out there that can in fact make it to where a mage "misses" you. Not that running off when you see explosion pop up is bad enough.

huh? thats rediculous. there is NO WAY that a dexxer missing is the same thing as a mage fizzling when he/she gets hit by someone else, regardless if it is a dexxer or another type of template. the EXACT equivalent of a mage missing in comparison to a dexxer missing would be that when the mage casts the spell and drops it on his/her target, it simply 'misses' altogether, like a magic 'whiff'. perhaps a graphic of a flamestrike landing on the ground next to the target or lightning striking a nearby tree would be appropriate. but what you imply in your statement is completely incongruent and misleading to those who might actually read that dribble.

next: evasion. this is a single ability from a skill you have chose to infer that it will make a mage 'miss'. WRONG. the spell cast by a mage DOES STILL HIT WITHOUT EXCEPTION, it's simply that they do very little if any damage at all for a few seconds. and this is not in any way the same as a mage 'missing' or 'whiffing' to suggest that ANOTHER PLAYER will cause the mage to 'miss' because of the bushido skill on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLAYER is rediculous.

 

[Magneto2272]

Word.

And also what mage spell is uninterruptable that can be cast in 1.25 dmg and deals at least 35dmg vs 70 resists? None. What kind of uniterruptable mage spell can deal 20ish spell damage+extra hit spell+concussion damage (up to 35 bonus dmg). What kind of spell mage use to mortal strike dexer so they cant 4/6 instant heal, oh throw in healing skill and confidence.

Dexers have many advantages over mages especially in 1v1 regardless if you are archer. Saying the current ultima online is Archer/Mage Online is a funny joke. You see ANY bigger spell coming you can run offscreen but mages cant see a big warning sigh over your head saying "ARMOR IGNORE" or "CONCUSSION BLOW" and run away AFTER you started swinging. But you sure as hell can run away AFTER a mage started to cast and leavng spell range before they can finish casting with little problem, and this is ASSUMING you give them all the time they needed to FINISH their big spell in the first place. If you die to a mage running protection...... dont pvp anymore.

You think mage is powerful because of the versatility. If you are dying to any mage (excluding tamer mage) 1v1 you are a terrible dexer. Mages are only powerful in a group/gank squad with called target. Otherwise a mage is nothing but a fielding/xhealing bot.

When I play a dexer I might not be able to kill a mage if he's timing is great and I dont have hit fireball weapon. But I have never been killed by a mage in any one on one fight because I CAN RUN AWAY ANYTIME I WANT TO and that renders any combo useless and I dont die to magic arrow fireball spam......


Edit: Since some dexers cant seem to fight mages right. The basic never die to mages 1v1 rule: Run offscreen if you whiff on a big spell, stick if you interrupt.

this is the same rhetoric that had been passed around for years and years, yet at every check along the way on all shards, at nearly every time frame the deadliest and quickest pvp'ers are always MAGES. when is the last time you heard of anyone winning a pvp tournament on a dexxer? anyone? show me the link. when is the last time in your guild's voice-chat did you hear the words 'oh noes, a pack of one-tile-radius dexxers are raiding our spawn, we better pack it in?' no. the normal conversation is more like 'drop the fields and let's grind them up kthx4tw, and then get back to this spawn after we loot then dry'. so please, stop barfing up this crap. it just doesnt fly.

 

[WarUltima]

this is the same rhetoric that had been passed around for years and years, yet at every check along the way on all shards, at nearly every time frame the deadliest and quickest pvp'ers are always MAGES. when is the last time you heard of anyone winning a pvp tournament on a dexxer? anyone? show me the link. when is the last time in your guild's voice-chat did you hear the words 'oh noes, a pack of one-tile-radius dexxers are raiding our spawn, we better pack it in?' no. the normal conversation is more like 'drop the fields and let's grind them up kthx4tw, and then get back to this spawn after we loot then dry'. so please, stop barfing up this crap. it just doesnt fly.

Are you stupid? First of all all I said was TODAYS 1v1 FIELD FIGHT, not some OLDSCHOOL DUELS. Btw no oldschool duels took dexers seriously and most of them dont allow dexers. Actually everyone in this thread are talking about field fights and offscreens (not allowed in duels). Until you jumped in and mentioned about the oldschool duels.

When in the history there's ONE famous PvP tourny that allowed using a dexer vs a mage? The latest Sonoma PvP tournies (2 weeks ago) seperated mages from dexer groups. Your inability to play a stronger 1v1 template in PvP doesnt justify mage being more powerful. Stop crapping out all the nonsense like it's your job. You still have no valid comeback on my arguments on how dexers have even more advantages over mages, and no comeback on how if you know a little bitty about offscreen no mage can kill you 1v1. I am afraid it's the truth and you cannot find any valid arguments other than mages always won the torunies when dexers are not allowed... Other than some 2v2, 3v3 or 5v5s that allowed dexer/mage mixture but then it isnt 1v1.

And last time when there's a dexer vs mage toruney happening that I know of was on sonoma fight nights from MANY YEARS ago where no pots/poisoning allowed and in a 8x8 pit. And it was Champion of dexer (winner of dexer group) vs Champion of mage(winner of mage group) for the heck of fun factor and dexers came out about 50% of the time THATS with all the rules in favor toward mages eg. no pots, no poisoning and back then there was no evasion and 4/6 casting dexers with 500million worth of weapons.

And you are saying the "history" right. Shows you how much mages have been shafted. Back then there's no super armor suit that gives you 140hp 180 stam and 100 mana while offering 70s resist. There were no super dual proc balanced bows. There werent evasion faction bandages, remove curse apples and less dexers back then run auto chugging/bandaging scripts on top of speedhack. Mages were ok back then. But mages didnt receive any real template revamp/possibilities since AoS which gave us Necromages and theyve been standing still since then. No rubberbanding casting change nerfed mage casting speed, requiring warrior skill to use special reduced mage bursting and so on.

Your arguments are laughable (actually you didnt give any). You said nothing but "in the history of UO mages win duels". Now I can tell you, 1v1 field fight any dexer knowing when to run(apperent you cant even run away correctly) will never die to mages. Go to TC and make a mage I will run a 120 resist 4/6 chiv samurai on TC and you get on a mage I wont even use specials and I will show you how you can never ever kill me 1v1 field fight. And I can tell you I will be the one chasing you more than you get to chase me. I already KNOW what the fight would look like. And unless I dc, you cant kill me period.

 

[o2bavr6]

Mages need some way to prevent dexers just run out of screen healing while running everytime they go 50 % HP.

Mages do have a way.. it's called the Paralyze spell..... oh ya, never mind there is trapped boxes that nerf that!! Never mind

 

[o2bavr6]

this is the same rhetoric that had been passed around for years and years, yet at every check along the way on all shards, at nearly every time frame the deadliest and quickest pvp'ers are always MAGES. when is the last time you heard of anyone winning a pvp tournament on a dexxer? anyone? show me the link. when is the last time in your guild's voice-chat did you hear the words 'oh noes, a pack of one-tile-radius dexxers are raiding our spawn, we better pack it in?' no. the normal conversation is more like 'drop the fields and let's grind them up kthx4tw, and then get back to this spawn after we loot then dry'. so please, stop barfing up this crap. it just doesnt fly.

Sorry dude, but WarUltima is right and you are wrong.

Go to test center and watch people fight there. Pick out the two best pvpers you see, one dexer and one mage and have them duel. You will be surprised when the dexer wins.

Yes dexers wiff, but the also hit 3 times to one mages hit.
Also dexers can redline you in 3 hits where a mage cant. SO in the time I cast one flamestrike the dexer has swung 3 times and missed once. Now the mage is trying to heal himself to which the dexer interrupts his heal, and now the mage is redlined.

Until you truly play in Fel exclusively and play both templates very well, you can not understand just how overpowered the dexer template is.

Also dexers have like 30 to 1 in great items over a mage.

As I said before, a dexers suit is geared towards doing as much damage per second as fast as possible.

M mages suit is geared towards mana and defense. You get 100 Damage increase if I recall correctly, where we get only 15 Spell damage increase in PvP.

 

[Magneto2272]

actually, no im not wrong. but its ok because im out of this thread. its get old when people actively practice/pursue ignorance and then another ignorant mind comes along and supports ignorance with ignorance.

im out. by all means post whatever rhetoric dribble you want. this is the same old same old status quo that has been UO for years. mages/archers refuse to open their eyes and admit their distinct and full advantages over all other templates, and somehow magically petition to get even more power at the same time. very wall street of you all. its the same reason one-tile melee templates have been relegated into near uselessness by and large.

don't mind me though. im just someone who wants true balance for all templates with equal and fair checks and balances for every template. how greedy and narrow-minded of me... oh wait. - thats you people.

more power to mages? unbelievable.

 

[WarUltima]

Sigh... typical troll.
The forum is open for discussion. I gave the facts and arguments on how dexer have advantages over mages. And the fact that a dexer cant die out on the field to a mage 1v1 if hes not naked and knowing when to run.

You are the ignorant fool that jumps in and gave nothing but "mage is overpowered they win udels from long time ago" no mention on field fights where offscreen is an open practice.

You are so ignorant that you cant even give 1 piece of up to date counter argument why YOU think mage is overpowered or dexer is underpowered. You ignored my request of showing you how you can never kill me dexer vs mage field fight. how about i dont use chiv heal no confidence and no special and no hit spell weapon and prove you that you still cant kill me field fight?

If you dont have any intention to discuss real balance why are you even posting? You cant even give out a proper counter argument of many of my points. And no YOU THINK THAT MAGE IS OVERPOWERED FOR NO REASON isnt an argument I am sorry. I countered each of the arguments you gave out and you failed to give out any crucial info to fortify your view points. You are the ignorant dbag here who truely fail to have any sense of game balance.

Peace out troll.

 

[Magneto2272]

wow. i really wanted to let this go, but if anyone is a troll here it's you friend.

just so you know there is no way in any universe, even the fluffy cartoon-land you seem to be in where a dexxer whiffing is the same thing as a dexxer MAKING a mage miss. the only equivalent would and could ever be in any logical sequence across the board would be if a mage casts a spell and it simply 'misses'. just the mage. by himself. end of story. this is why dexxers have to run off screen ******. get it through your thick head. there really isnt any way to break it down smaller than that for you. if you dont get it, cant help you.

also, mages can control entire areas with fields. can a dexxer? no. mages can drop various curses. can a dexxer? no. mages can become invisible and teleport indefinately. can a dexxer? no. [teleport scrolls excepted.] mages can summon other creatures to assist in combat. can a dexxer? no. a mage can disarm a dexxer and 100% remove his ability to do any damage whatsoever. can a dexxer prevent a mage from spellcasting? no. [exception on spell interrupt which isnt a guarantee] a mage can create an energy field that has a long timer on it and literally blocks off part of a map or choke point that controls the area. can a dexxer do this? no.

and yet with these distinct advantages, you want to add another advantage to stack onto this? unbelievable... you need your head checked.

 

[WarUltima]

sigh... what a troll and the personal comments. you are making fellow dexers looking really bad kiddo.

anyways you give one argument thats an improvement. wheres the rest of them? snap out of you pink rose scented world and lets do some test and see if your mage can drop my dexer. and with your flawed logic, you have 50% chanse to whiff where as mages dont even get to attempt for a swing... if you offscreen you are essentially in god mode vs a mage because they could move while attacking, healing and their fireballs dont hit for 45+ a hit... not even close.

you sound like you know how overpowered mages are and I know how dexers work, lets swap positions. Again, I offer you 1v1 field fight, dexer vs mage and since mages can never miss a spell and is "the fastest and the deadliest" in UO according to you, kill my puny little defenseless dexer quick and see if it really work out that way.

k...

 

[Smokin]

Bah, Just make it so mages can only fight mages and dexxers can only fight dexxers excluding archers they fight each other then no more saying each is over powered.

 

[red sky]

if a mage casts a spell and it simply 'misses'. just the mage. by himself. end of story. this is why dexxers have to run off screen ******.

So I suppose you will also suggest that mages need hit chance in order to successfully cast a spell on someone. Any other crazy ideas? By the way, I think this thread was originally about whether or not the Devs should implement some type ciphering for words of power.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Magneto makes my head hurt with how stupid he is.
How can you even argue that a mage being distrubed isn't the equilvent of a dexer missing. That would be like if a mage spammed weaken on you, you couldn't even attempt to swing which is not the case.

Also at one point you were saying necros were over powered. That's not magery that's necromancy which last time I checked CAN be used by dexers. You have to learn to stay on point, magery and necro are two different things. Also by the way you talk, I'm williing to bet you don't actively play a mage, if at all.

Your argument was constructed very poorly. Also you don't seem to know game mechanics. For example you said evasion does minimal damage. Wrong it blocks ALL damage.

And now to fix your list for you:
Can a dexer invis, yes, they are called invis pots/items. Look into them.

Mages can't do multiple curses. They only have one, it's called curse.

NECROS which aren't restricted to mages have MULTIPLE curses.

A dexer can't summon in help? Orc Brute 1 follower slot... look into it.

A mage can disarm a dexer, it's a two way street and more potent when a dexer disarms a mage. Thanks to all the changes 98% of mages have to use a mage wep these days. Even if a mage has fencing for example doesn't mean they have tactics. Which means they can't disarm. You try to skew things so they work in your favor. Also if you want to fizzle a mage while your disarmed theres a few things you can do, but I want you to learn pvp for your self and dont want to get in the outs you have to prevent a mage from casting from the 2% of mages that have a chance to disarm you.

Energy fields. You can shoot through them if you're an archer and even if you're not you can use teleport scrolls or items and teleport over them and get right back in the action. So your point is void. The only thing that can block people fully is a wall of stone, which you can cast as a dexer with scrolls.

Your post was pretty bad through out, there were many flaws and it seemed like a woe-is-me I play a dexer type post. I play both and can tell you I think it's much easier to be a good dexer than a good mage.

 

[Magneto2272]

Magneto makes my head hurt with how stupid he is.
How can you even argue that a mage being distrubed isn't the equilvent of a dexer missing. That would be like if a mage spammed weaken on you, you couldn't even attempt to swing which is not the case.

umm maybe because a dexxer whiffs with asbolutely no interaction with another player, and there is no such thing as a mage missing on a spell cast? the only way a mage 'misses' is when another player actually hits them, causing a spell interrupt. crazy, huh?

Also at one point you were saying necros were over powered. That's not magery that's necromancy which last time I checked CAN be used by dexers. You have to learn to stay on point, magery and necro are two different things. Also by the way you talk, I'm williing to bet you don't actively play a mage, if at all.

i have yet to say anything whatsoever in any of my replies about necromancy. did you even read this thread or are you just another one of these people shooting off his mouth desperate to insult someone without having really read the entire thread?

Your argument was constructed very poorly. Also you don't seem to know game mechanics.

and you do? you and the other idiot dont even know the difference between spell interrupt and a mage spell actually missing, which does not happen in uo currently, and never has. my singular argument/point is, has been, and continues to be that if a dexxer can 'whiff' randomly at any time, then so should a mage spell simply 'miss'. it just doesnt get any simpler. it would eliminate you mages whining about 'so-and-so dexxer runs off screen and wont stand still and let me nuke him in under 10 seconds...'

And now to fix your list for you:
Can a dexer invis, yes, they are called invis pots/items. Look into them.

umm, an invis potion is an ITEM. there is no 'invis' chivalry spell friend. magery spell 'invisibility' comes directly from the Magery skill.

Mages can't do multiple curses. They only have one, it's called curse.

congratulations! you almost had something there. that is both true and false. the Magery skill does have one spell that will curse str, dex, and int, along with lower resists, but you forget there are individual curse spells for each stat [but ill give you a break here in saying that you're right, there is only one Magery spell widely employed: Curse. regardless, can a dexxer curse? no.

NECROS which aren't restricted to mages have MULTIPLE curses.

that's true. but guess what? their spells dont miss/whiff either! ever. they can be interrupted, but they never just 'miss' omgooses!

A dexer can't summon in help? Orc Brute 1 follower slot... look into it.

again, an orc brute summoning talisman is an item. the Magery skill allows for a handfull of various summons. can a dexxer do this? lol no.

A mage can disarm a dexer, it's a two way street and more potent when a dexer disarms a mage. Thanks to all the changes 98% of mages have to use a mage wep these days. Even if a mage has fencing for example doesn't mean they have tactics. Which means they can't disarm. You try to skew things so they work in your favor. Also if you want to fizzle a mage while your disarmed theres a few things you can do, but I want you to learn pvp for your self and dont want to get in the outs you have to prevent a mage from casting from the 2% of mages that have a chance to disarm you.

yes, a mage can disarm a dexxer. and yes again, a dexxer can disarm a mage. and yes, a mage can be interrupted. but even still, a mage spell still never 'misses'. there is no skewing here friend, just extremely simple logic that you and the others are having difficulty grasping.

Energy fields. You can shoot through them if you're an archer and even if you're not you can use teleport scrolls or items and teleport over them and get right back in the action. So your point is void. The only thing that can block people fully is a wall of stone, which you can cast as a dexer with scrolls.

thankyou for reinforcing one of my points here. an ARCHER can 'shoot through' an efield. what can a one-tile melee dexxer do except sit and wait? nothing. and yet again, teleport scrolls are ITEMS. is there a dexxer skill that can just 'teleport? well, the ninjitsu skill [which is used by mages and dexxers alike] is the closest thing with the ability 'shadow jump' but oops! guess what? it takes a 'smoke bomb' to do so. guess what that is? yeap! it's an item

Your post was pretty bad through out, there were many flaws and it seemed like a woe-is-me I play a dexer type post. I play both and can tell you I think it's much easier to be a good dexer than a good mage.

no, actually my post are both logical and progressive, but it's people like you who are more than content with the status quo of how uo is played where literally archers+mages are the only viable templates. yes. i primary play a one-tile melee character. i write these posts/replies in what is beginning to seem like a vain attempt to open your eyes and see that there is a whole world of fantastic possibilities out there to TRULY BALANCE all templates so that there is an equal and adequate check and balance for each playstyle. this is not the case. as is, the list of alternatives is short, and the line of people who are content with their distinct advantages intent on keeping it that way is out of sight.

combat in uo is begging for more options. it's sincerly time for UO to evolve.

Archers and Mages Online 4tw, but hopefully not forever.

 

[Petrify]

I don't know how you can complain how mages spells don't "miss". Are you kidding? They FIZZLE every time they take a single point of damage. Do dexxers fizzle while they are strangled/bled? Nope. Do dexxers fizzle when they get hit by a warfork with 1.25 swing speed and a fireball? Nope. Do dexxers have to stop to hit? Nope. Do dexxers have to stop to heal? Nope.

Please, PLEASE point out to me any form of skill that a dexxer requires that a mage doesn't. Dexxers are literally POINT. CLICK. CHASE. I have a dexxer and a mage, I play my mage more, I do find that I miss a lot and it does frustrate me but when I play my mage I notice that I'm not missing a lot it's just that I'm swinging so much that when I miss 1/20 I think I'm unlucky.

NO dexxer should ever, ever die to a mage 1v1. Ever. The second a dexxer gets below 50% hp they can just run with bandies whereas a mage has to stop to cast and therefore get hit again. Magneto, I really think you have no idea.

Anyway I like the OP's idea. I think it's smart and would finally put some sort of diversity in the field.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I guess he's not smart enough to pick up that you can stop a mage from casting just by spamming weaken, you don't even need to do a single point of damage. You can't weaken spam a dexer and cause them to stop swinging, how you don't understand this is beyond me. You're complaining about not missing, spells fizzling is the counter part to dexers missing, obviously you are dumb. Also why should mages "miss" when everything they do takes mana. A dexer can just auto swing free of mana and still do damage causing the mage to fizzle.

You said mages can do all this stuff and dexers can't. I proved you wrong, is it my fault if you're not coming fully prepared? No.

At one point when you were talking about choke fights you said they lay fields and then all the mages rush over to them.. the only reason mages would huddle in one spot is to wither..which as I said is not a mage only spell. So please don't act like you meant they all run up the enemy so they can flame strike from 1 tile away use your head(I know I'm asking a lot there).

You tried to say theres all kinds of things dexers can't do, I've provided you a list of what they can do. You said they can't invis when there is a mean, you said they can't teleport when there is a way, the list goes on and on.

As for your dexer and tournys link. I don't think anyone would want to watch that because its boring. No one cares to watch an RNG fight. The EMs seperate both groups meele and magic, look at baja for events.

Do you play a mage though or are you narrow minded and only play some kind of meele with chiv char, maybe swords or something and complain because you don't want to adapt to situations?

Everything you listed about a mage a dexer can do too. I'm sorry you don't want to acknowlege that a mage fizzling is the dexer counter part of whiffing.

Everyone seems to grap this but you. We get it a spell never "misses" however a mage can't do damage with out mana, and also a mage can not do damage while being hit, unlike a dexer which can do both while on the run and same for healing themselves on the run.

 

[Vexxed]

Umm... wow.. just WOW..

I think Speaking the Truth Made all the Valid points needed... I see one person (Magneto) speaking lots & lots and everyone else, myself included just shaking their heads..... Anway.... I'd prefer if this thread didn't get sidetracked into oblivion by one person who lost but just doesn't realize it...
I think it's a fair assumption that MAGES could use a little love... I'm not going to list the reasons because that would stir up many arguements (by a VOCAL but biased few) but to anyone that's CURRENTLY PvPing it's pretty obvious that a good ole scribe mage is a WEEEE bit lacking atm...

Anytime someone suggests some sort of PvP change.. I simply ask myself...

"Hmm.. would I change any of the PVP setups I currently have??? "

Currently I have your typical geared out balanced bow Archer & a Mage-wep / DCI / EP Necromage.... I have to admit that if these changes came out I'd probably switch to a scribe mage for awhile just for the "suprise" dumps I might get on people... Ah well.. I still like the idea!

 

[Magneto2272]

ingorance breeds gentlemen, and you are all infected. just because no one here seems to see the logic and truth that i present doesnt mean that i am wrong. oh yeah and here is Vexxed, who flames me for my critical analysis on previous posts, then goes on to brag about his 'geared out balanced bow ARCHER and MAGE'

hipocracy for the win.

Currently I have your typical geared out balanced bow Archer & a Mage-wep / DCI / EP Necromage.... I have to admit that if these changes came out I'd probably switch to a scribe mage for awhile just for the "suprise" dumps I might get on people... Ah well.. I still like the idea!

sit down.

 

[Magneto2272]

I guess he's not smart enough to pick up that you can stop a mage from casting just by spamming weaken, you don't even need to do a single point of damage. You can't weaken spam a dexer and cause them to stop swinging, how you don't understand this is beyond me. You're complaining about not missing, spells fizzling is the counter part to dexers missing, obviously you are dumb. Also why should mages "miss" when everything they do takes mana. A dexer can just auto swing free of mana and still do damage causing the mage to fizzle.

here we go AGAIN... let me try it this way...

1.] a dexxer misses randomly with no interaction with/from another player.
2.] when a mage casts a spell and drops the cursor on a player, IT DOES NOT MISS
3.] a dexxer can interrupt a mage casting a spell. THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A MAGE SPELL MISSING ITS TARGET.

in a nut shell, this is really all i have been trying to get across from the beginning, but people keep wanting to shift focus...

You said mages can do all this stuff and dexers can't. I proved you wrong, is it my fault if you're not coming fully prepared? No.

huh? you have proved absolutely nothing so far, nor have you given any specific examples that i have not 100% refuted.

At one point when you were talking about choke fights you said they lay fields and then all the mages rush over to them.. the only reason mages would huddle in one spot is to wither..which as I said is not a mage only spell. So please don't act like you meant they all run up the enemy so they can flame strike from 1 tile away use your head(I know I'm asking a lot there).

ehhhh... who said anything about mages huddling together in one spot? you're the first one to mention this. you're also the first and only person to mention whithering as well... so which is it, are you simply not reading my posts thoroughly, or is your reading comprehension too low to digest my replies? seriously...

You tried to say theres all kinds of things dexers can't do, I've provided you a list of what they can do. You said they can't invis when there is a mean, you said they can't teleport when there is a way, the list goes on and on.

yes, and i refuted each and every one of your so called 'equals' all of which are only achievable if the dexxer is running around with a packfull of items, which is not equivalancy, it's item dependency in an attempt to gain equivalancy. again i say to you that there is no actual skill equivalency that can either check OR balance these advantages. take your time reading that one please. id appreciate it.

As for your dexer and tournys link. I don't think anyone would want to watch that because its boring. No one cares to watch an RNG fight. The EMs seperate both groups meele and magic, look at baja for events.

there's a reason for that dont you think? a mixed mage/dexxer tournament is lopsided. always were, always will be until they evolve combat to open it up for everyone to be competitive that archers and mages are. my challenge to you to provide a one-tile melee dexxer tournament champion among all templates link. ill save you the time: you wont find one because there isnt one to find.

Do you play a mage though or are you narrow minded and only play some kind of meele with chiv char, maybe swords or something and complain because you don't want to adapt to situations?

i seek only fair and balanced gameplay for ALL TEMPLATES. there should be a credible check and balance for each template to the other. now what we currently have.

Everything you listed about a mage a dexer can do too. I'm sorry you don't want to acknowlege that a mage fizzling is the dexer counter part of whiffing.

wow. over and over and over again people keep saying how they 'get it', and then at the end of their post out comes a statement like this. no really, a dexxer missing and a mage fizzling, are not the same thing.

Everyone seems to grap this but you. We get it a spell never "misses" however a mage can't do damage with out mana, and also a mage can not do damage while being hit, unlike a dexer which can do both while on the run and same for healing themselves on the run.

if you 'get it', then there is absolutely no reason you and others should be petitioning for more power to mages. your last paragraph FINALLY HAS SOME MERIT. and i agree with you sir, there is some balance in what you said in your last paragraph, minus the first sentence, but this is wherei remind you fo all of the map control abilities that mages have. so in the end, it is truly melee-dexxers [non-archers] who need are at the front of the line if anyone were to get a boost. imho that should be 'boost*s*', but any bone thrown to that dog would truly and sincerely appreciated...

was it really that hard?

yeesh.

 

[Petrify]

Magneto:

Please, PLEASE point out to me any form of skill that a dexxer requires that a mage doesn't. Dexxers are literally POINT. CLICK. CHASE.

 

[Magneto2272]

Magneto:

Please, PLEASE point out to me any form of skill that a dexxer requires that a mage doesn't. Dexxers are literally POINT. CLICK. CHASE.

Petrify, if you don't have an original thought on this topic, or an actual intelligent point or counterpoint, how about you let the adults talk a while mmm? you can draw in your coloring book until we're ready to go...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Magneto:

Please, PLEASE point out to me any form of skill that a dexxer requires that a mage doesn't. Dexxers are literally POINT. CLICK. CHASE.

Petrify, if you don't have an original thought on this topic, or an actual intelligent point or counterpoint, how about you let the adults talk a while mmm? you can draw in your coloring book until we're ready to go...

He was spot on.

 

[o2bavr6]

Magneto:

Petrify, if you don't have an original thought on this topic, or an actual intelligent point or counterpoint, how about you let the adults talk a while mmm? .

When us adults talk we also listen to opposing opinions and then we attempt to follow our opinions with facts.

Now certain things in life are open to interpretation. In one case here: A dexer missing vs a mage getting disrupted.

You can say that the mage being distributed is not the same a missing the spell and you wold be correct. But at the end of the day both parties were not able to use their skill to damage their opponent.

You haven't discussed the part relating to healing. When a mage attempts to cast a greater heal and the dexer hits him, it interrupts the mages spell.

Yet when a dexer uses bandaids to heal and we hit the dexer with a spell, it does not interrupt the dexers healing process.

You mentioned that some mages can disarm. this is only true if they have wrestling or a weapon skill with tactics (tank mage).

You leave out the fact that the tank mages even though they can disarm and cause the dexer to miss more, will likely only get one or two disarms off during the fight. Why is that? Dexers armor are geared towards the fastest hits with the most damage per second, while a mages suit is geared towards mana and Defense Chance Increase.

With the mage lacking in HCI and SSI and Dex they just aren't that effective on the damage front. And don't forget a good dexer will disarm the mage first at which point the dexer starts to hit on almost every swing.

But in the end I guess you are right and everyone else who posted against your arguments are wrong. I count like 6 to your alone. We must all be wrong.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I think the problem is everyone is saying that a fizzle is equilvent to a dexer missing but he refuses to admit it. He's splitting hairs and going, well a mage doesn't miss.

You also said I didn't make any sense till my last paragraph where I said we get it mages don't "miss". If you go back and look I say that before the last paragraph. The fact that you're trying to get techinal makes you look foolish.

There are all kinds of equilvents in the list of things you said dexers can't do that mages can. It's not anyones fault if you don't want to come prepared.

If you've noticed a dexer can become mage mage like with items, but a mage can not become more dexer like. A dexer can use scrolls for example to preform mage abilities, however a mage can not just have bandages on them and it will work the same.

Also you did say that when fields are dropped mages group up to kill, lets be honest its wither that people are doing, not magery. Also if you're talking about doing mass damage in chokes please don't act like dexers can't compete. Titans hammer anyone? Whirl wind + AoE. Blaze of death maybe..

To claim a dexer has never won any kind of tournment is pretty ignorant of you. I believe on Atlantic a 1v1 was held and a dexer won it from Europa. So please get your facts straight. The final fight was Mage vs Dexer.
However no one wants to see this kind of fight or dexer vs dexer, they prefer fights of mage vs mage because skill is actually involved. It's not just one or both parties banking on RNGs.

You also never answered if you actively play a mage. If you think that a dexer is harder to play Id love to see you play a mage and I'll play a dexer and we can see who wins. I feel like you are narrow minded and don't actively play a mage but you will complain about it.

Everyone has listed different options for you to do the same things that mages can do. If you don't want to carry any of these items that's your perogitive. The fact that you won't acknowlege that all these ways are dexer equilvents is what makes you look foolish.

 

[WarUltima]

I don't know what's up with him or his shard. The better dexers on my shard carries at least teleport scrolls, including myself when I do play my dexers. I have a few dexers the most played ones are my 4/6 chiv sammy, and I can say it loud that I am unkillable not only to mages but also most dexers. My 2nd most played is a bushido necro dexer with huge burst capability and survives with confidence and pots (mages can't touch me if I run regardles my reduced healing capability), lastly its my typical stealth ninja dismount archer to put out some dismount ganking on enemies. Stealth archer is weak solo and dexers can get me easily but mages still cannot touch me because they can NOT stop me from running away while they are standing still to do ANYTHING. Heck to add oil onto fire, I can be at melee range by a mage and starts running away when I see they are casting paralyze and leave their spell range before they can finish. And not like I cant simply tbox and offscreen or hide.

If you think playing a dexer is hard you really should try to play a mage. I can safely say that I can run all 50resists and a hit fireball fast weapon with bleed. If its a real field fight I can still kill you and you will be the one forced to run/go into defensive from the very first hit I land on you (bleed).

Mobility is the best skill/advantage whatever you wanna call it in uo. Mages have it the worst. Frozen to attack frozen to heal, frozen to do anything.

You really should start using consumables. Apples, tboxes, scrolls, invis rings and so on. They give dexers more advantages than mages. As mentioned before you can do most things mages could if you choose to, but mages can't. Also casting from scrolls are uninterruptable. You have a lot to learn my friend.

If you insist mages are so powerful over melee dexers, get on tc sometimes I will use mix artied that's given in bank box and I WILL give you a bad beatdown even if you are playing on the most powerful, fastest and deadliest template... mages.

 

[red sky]

I'm not completely sure if the whole ciphering of the words of power is a good idea anymore. I play a red, faction necro mage as my main character. When I place myself in the boots of the dexers I fight, I just see complete annihilation. I destroy most of the ones I fight so far and if this was implemented, dexers might become an extinct species. Therefore, it might just be good to leave this one alone. I believe the main complaint the original poster of this thread is that it is significantly more difficult to create an elite mage suit than it is to create an elite dexer suit. So most mages who don't have high end suits get destroyed by high end dexers. This is just a way of life in an item based game though and there are ways to get around that.

 

[Vexxed]

I believe the main complaint the original poster of this thread is that it is significantly more difficult to create an elite mage suit than it is to create an elite dexer suit. So most mages who don't have high end suits get destroyed by high end dexers. This is just a way of life in an item based game though and there are ways to get around that.

NOPE...
I do not belive it's harder to make a good mage suit vs dexxer suit ( at least not with faction arty's maybe before but no longer now)

I just felt that MAGES are lacking currently... Movement is king in PvP and dexxers get the best of that vs a Mage which has to stop for both Healing / Offensive spells... The Mages have their perks etc... Mostly in larger group combat & when they fight in an enclosed enough area that fielding becomes effective.... but a property done Dexxer can Trash an equivalent Mage atm imo... discount Tamer / Mages & Dread Mares bc we all know the Mares are just outright broken... 3 screen 40 pt. firebreath anyone ... All with no warning?? Anyway.. Take into consideration that with what I proposed any Human dexxer would know EXACTLY what every 5th spell is on Avg... as well as see they are casting every time etc... and what dexxer with half a brain won't know what's coming when they cast for 3+ seconds (Explode followed by FS) and don't see dmg immediately?