Question on Vendor Changes ??????????????

[Der Rock]

Shard is Cats. Vendor mall is named Westborough Jewelry Mall and Auction Hall. Mall is OUTSIDE Luna's west gates. Leave the west exit and look for house with American flag on roof in radar, mall is located next door.

This change does nothing to affect me. I play fair. Always have, always will.
My prices range from 49gp-20000000. My fees are thousands and I still profit.

btw,, most of my shopping is done OUTSIDE luna. Cats has some great vendor malls that are always well stocked and priced right. The two keys to running a vendor imo.

I invite you to come check me out. If ya get lost outside Luna, I'll gate ya.

i visited ure shop last night, i notice in ure shop(same experience i made in the past)
many vendors are stocked with 1 till 30 items, many vendors are empty
so my conclusion is (same i posted above) there is nothing to be said against that we
1. could reduce the max vendors per house
2. could reduce the max.storage per vendor

these two points would decrease the problem with "vendor for storage abusing"

lets do a little calculation here:
(all numbers are only economic assumptions, so dont appoint me on the numbers)

status quo:
uo player complete : 30 000 (100%)
player use vendors : 6 000 ( 20%)
player avoiding fee : 3 000 ( 10%)
honest vendor/player : 3 000( 10%)


my system:
uo player complete : 30 000 (100%)
player use vendors : 20 000 ( 67%)
player avoiding fee : 0 ( 0%)
honest vendor/player : 20 000( 67%)

so, my system is a win win situation,
a win for gold sink
a win for prohibit the fee avoiding
a win for NEW vendor player
a win for honest existing vendor player

and for storage abusing i can say, BodBooks are alowed anyway, most items are stackable now or in the near future, and with the reduce of max.vendors/house and max storage/p.vendor u can neglect this problem.

 

[jelinidas]

i visited ure shop last night, i notice in ure shop(same experience i made in the past)
many vendors are stocked with 1 till 30 items, many vendors are empty
.

You sir are quite wrong, 2 out of 54 vendors are empty and are labled so. The other 52 vendors have roughly 10-100 items each! NO vendor has one item, LOL. I offer again to gate you as you surly did not follow directions to my mall. It really is quite simple to find.

 

[Der Rock]

You sir are quite wrong, 2 out of 54 vendors are empty and are labled so. The other 52 vendors have roughly 10-100 items each! NO vendor has one item, LOL. I offer again to gate you as you surly did not follow directions to my mall. It really is quite simple to find.

i visited some other shops nearby also,inclusive some luna shops,it is more a overall impresion, so not specific ure shops only

btw.: why for god´s sake do u stock so many jewelery vendors with 90% junk?
rings and braces,wich is mongbat loot. on drach, such jewelery dont make it even out of the loot backpack, not to mention in a vendor.

 

[Erekose]

i dont understand anything,
again, how many vendors u see outside of luna???
the question is : WHY do average player dont run vendors ??
it is to expensive, and on most shards u see very rare player do vendor shopping
honest player dont run vendors,because they lose gold.
99% of all luna high priced item seller use the exploit, fact
(or have stocked enough dupe gold on vendors, or they use this other bug with havy items, i dont know if this stillexist today)

i posted, that the change is good on one side, but the whole system is NOT average player friendly. FACT
u will see that the exploiter find another way. but the average player will still dont use vendors

I know quite a few 'average players' who run profitable vendors without using any exploits. I love how you state your OPINION as if it were FACT.

I used to run several vendors, but for the last couple of years I mostly rely on auctions to sell high ends. I'm too lazy (in game) to make a good merchant.

You sound like someone who has never even bothered to try running a vendor.

 

[jelinidas]

i visited some other shops nearby also,inclusive some luna shops,it is more a overall impresion, so not specific ure shops only

btw.: why for god´s sake do u stock so many jewelery vendors with 90% junk?
rings and braces,wich is mongbat loot. on drach, such jewelery dont make it even out of the loot backpack, not to mention in a vendor.

LOL Glad you did come clean about my mall being empty. It at least gives you a tad bit of credit now. Your last post was a complete LIE. At least now I do know you did visit.

and btw...I pulled 34,000,000 of vendors last night. I put the commas in there for you.

It is a jewelry mall to help new folks. It is organized and neat. STOCKED and CHEAP. 90% of inventory is less then 999gp. Even (young) players can afford that. I try to help people. When stocking, I assist. I give things away. I suit them up.

After getting them equiped, I take them hunting. It is fun to play with new folks. The truely new or the returning vets.

Yes, 90% is just basic skill jewels, the other 10% pays for the whole operation. Want to guess what my DAILY vendor fees are? You would cry.

 

[Der Rock]

I know quite a few 'average players' who run profitable vendors without using any exploits. I love how you state your OPINION as if it were FACT.

I used to run several vendors, but for the last couple of years I mostly rely on auctions to sell high ends. I'm too lazy (in game) to make a good merchant.

You sound like someone who has never even bothered to try running a vendor.

a FEW, aha,and if u know a FEW, then it is approved for u that my opinion is NO fact?
interesting.

i am to lazy to, for running vendors,
i do it from time to time(maybe once in a year) last time i made 300 mil in 5 day´s
i have items for (if i count cheap) 2 billion gold in my castle, but for me, it is not worth to run vendors on drach,population is to low,and the fee would eat my gold,
(u know 2 billion in items is much less storage then 2 billions in checks)
(i never abused the vendor fee,even i know how it would work)
i play almost only short before und during events,rest of the time my accounts are at sleep.

 

[Black Sun]

@black sun

all this will hurt is the average player - like always when the nerf stick was pulled recently.

the power-sellers will just buy their stuff with their other accounts prior to getting charged, while single account players get the brunt.

what a joke. all this effort again against us after-work players. *shakeshead*

and all this brains wasted for exactly what ? will there ever be a time when these changes get thought through befor they hit the test servers ? after more than 4 years of playing, i start to doubt .....

How is this hurting average players? Really, I don't see it.

As I said in a previous post, unless you're pulling items back off your vendor less than 24 hours after you placed it on there this change will not effect you.

Please, explain to me in detail (pretend you're trying to explain it to a 7 year old) how this will hurt the average player.

 

[trammelite]

average 1 account player:
*put item in vendor
*pay fee
or
*remove item before deduction of fee
* pay fee when putting the item on vendor again
= average player pays vendor fees

average exploiter:
* put item on vendor
* buy item from vendor before deduction of fee with 2nd account
*rinse repeat the next day
= average exploiter does not pay any vendor fee

the exploiter pays the price for the item to himself, moving the gold from right pocket to left pocket so to speak, but he will not pay the vendor fee. if he does that especially with expensive arties, he gets along getting richer, while the average 1 account player looses parts of his benefit to vendor fees.

the average player will have to put a dumping price to the item to get it sold and gate/drop runes for quite a significant playtime to be sure to keep some benefit, while the exploiter drops the stuff to the vendor, does whatever he wants and just buys the expensive stuff from his own vendor with the second account before he quits playing for the day or the timer runs out.

but you are right, the average player has a choice: he might put a book with his contact data into the vendor and we all end up with legions of vendors selling ICQ-books ;(

not a beneficial change in my eyes. prove me wrong.

 

[Black Sun]

We've been paying vendor fees all along. What do you think that daily charge the vendor has is for? But because the fees are only taken out once per day there was an exploit to get around paying it. This will make it so if you remove an item before been on the vendor for 24 hours (meaning you'll have already paid it's daily maintenance fee as intended) you will still have to pay this fee. Let me break it down. I'm going to ignore possible work-around for big ticket items that you described above regarding the 2 accounts.

(These examples are for people who only use only 1 account)
Currently for honest vendor owners:
I place an item on my vendor priced for X gp.
24 hours passes and the item is still on the vendor, my vendor charges me Y gp maintenance.
I decide that I no longer want to sell this item and I remove it from the vendor, no extra fee's are charged.

After the change for honest vendor owners:
I place an item on my vendor priced for X gp.
24 hours passes and the item is still on the vendor, my vendor charges me Y gp maintenance.
I decide that I no longer want to sell this item and I remove it from the vendor, no extra fee's are charged.

Now, here's how things will fix will change things:
Currently for exploiters:
I place an item on my vendor priced for X gp, his daily maintenance should be Y gp for this item every 24 hours.
12 hours pass and the item is still on the vendor, I decide to remove it so I don't have to pay the maintenance fee.
I remove the item, and no maintenance is charged at all for the item, and I am free to continue to do this day after day.

After the Change for exploiters:
I place an item on my vendor priced for X gp, his daily maintenance should be Y gp for this item every 24 hours.
12 hours pass and the item is still on the vendor, I decide to remove it so I don't have to pay the maintenance fee.
I remove the item, and a penalty fee is charged to the item equal to the regular 24 hour vendor fee (Y gp). Now before I can place this item back onto a vendor I must make sure the vendor has enough to cover the penalty fee on the item, if I don't have it, the vendor will not accept the item.


So the only way this change will effect honest (average) players is if they place an item on a vendor, then for whatever reason, decide to remove it more than 30 minutes after placing it on the vendor or less than 24 hours after placing it on. This is to stop the work around of people trying to get out of paying the daily 24 hour maintence fees.

 

[gunneroforgin]

Any thoughts on ways to let us do trades of over 150mil without needing a packhorse?

I can, limit all transactions to 1 million or less. if some body is charging some one 150 million for something some one is cheating some one( IN MY OPINION) There is NOTHING in this game worth 150 million.

 

[trammelite]

@black sun

ok, i give up. you seem not to see the point i tried to make. maybe the future vendor population will show who was right.

 

[Black Sun]

No, I don't see your point. Vendor fees are not anything new. We've been paying them all along. This change will not change that, honest players will not pay anymore or any less.

So unless your point is "exploiters will find away around it, why bother try to fix anything", then no I don't see it.

Am I alone? Anyone else see what he's driving at?

 

[Ferrut]

I have two points to make.... :

1) Honestly, I think this latest patch is Excellent, and I like this change and what it is attempting to achieve.

2) Unfortunately, there appear to be (without vendors on test I am not sure) two ways already mentioned for exploiters to completely bypass this system, and therefore it is not achieving what it was supposed to.

 

[Der Rock]

How is this hurting average players? Really, I don't see it.

Please, explain to me in detail (pretend you're trying to explain it to a 7 year old) how this will hurt the average player.

ok, u ask, i`ll try
(maybe i am the only one who can,because MY english spelling here on stratics comes a 7 old close enough, i think)

THIS pub 56 change NOTHING for honest/average player
(including frejaSp here, me, trammelite and others here)

thats it, realy that it.

the question here is:
WHY did the Dev´s NOT repair the WHOLE vendor thing.
MANY player dont run vendors because of the unfair fee
MANY player become poor of this (for most shards) inefficient vendor fee system
MANY player simply abusing the vendor fee
Many player put books in a vendor for high priced items because of saving the fee
Many player use bulletin boards for high priced items because of saving the fee
so,we could have much much more vendor IF the system would be fair and clear.

so pub 56 change nothing,not even what it was meant for.

ok?

 

[Black Sun]

I'm not saying it's easy to run a vendor outside of luna. It's not. But just like any business, you have to advertise some. You can't just place a vendor on your house and hope people find it. If you have vendors and you want them to sell, you should be dropping runes, gating from banks to your house. Anything to draw business.

My point is that this change is not making it any easier, or any harder, for the average player to maintain a vendor. As far as I'm concerned the vendor system works fine. You can't expect to drop a vendor and get a payday without doing any work. Every vendor has the potential to be just as profitable and busy as any Luna vendor with a little work on the owners behalf.

As for exploiters finding a work around for the fix... Yes, I'm sure they will. They always do. But at least a step in the right direction is progress, even if it doesn't seem like much.

 

[Der Rock]

I'm not saying it's easy to run a vendor outside of luna. It's not. But just like any business, you have to advertise some. You can't just place a vendor on your house and hope people find it. If you have vendors and you want them to sell, you should be dropping runes, gating from banks to your house. Anything to draw business.

My point is that this change is not making it any easier, or any harder, for the average player to maintain a vendor. As far as I'm concerned the vendor system works fine. You can't expect to drop a vendor and get a payday without doing any work. Every vendor has the potential to be just as profitable and busy as any Luna vendor with a little work on the owners behalf.

As for exploiters finding a work around for the fix... Yes, I'm sure they will. They always do. But at least a step in the right direction is progress, even if it doesn't seem like much.

place a rune in the middle of the sahara,what happen then ?
ok, i give up to , something is very strange here,
peace and all wishes

 

[Black Sun]

I think maybe we're talking about 2 different issues and don't really realize it.

 

[E_T]

This seems like an overly complicated fix for a very simple problem. Why not simply change the vendor daily charge to an hourly charge. Or every 10 minute charge? I doubt many people are gonna stand around an pull and re-price items every ten minutes...

 

[aarons6]

yes it was a good thought.. but not very planned out..

so basically they are giving you 24 hours to sell something on a vendor for free.. but
if you take the item off yourself, the vendor wont charge you, but the item has a property placed on it that if someone else or you decide later to sell it, you gotta pay what was charged that day?

does the property ever vanish?? i would hate to have an item that says i owe a vendor gold..

too confusing..

 

[Pom Pom]

How about this issue: I have a vendor for runes to my shop only. They are on there for 12gp each (the default amount, I didn't price them that way). Since the publish, this vendor is now charging me over 30K a day in vendor fees. Huh? There are not that many runes on it, and even at full it would never total that. I checked each rune to make sure there wasn't a mistake in price, there is not.

How can I get this fixed? I have other vendors that have very costly items on them and the fees aren't even that high! Help Draconi? Jeremy? Someone?

 

[Devil_Woman]

Pom Pom, if you haven't added anything to your vendor since the publish went live yesterday (since that's when the game started the timer) then you should try stripping everything off the vendor, including clothing and any items he's holding. See what your charge is then. If it's still out-of-line, you could try paging a GM to fix it (not the solution I would recommend unless you just like waiting around in game for possibly no help at all) or drop the vendor and replace him (this is what I would do).

If, once stripped of everything, the vendor fees look right then take a look a the stuff he was wearing and holding to see if some of those had prices on them. I know I once took an item off a vendor to have him hold, intending it to no longer be for sale, but going straight from the vendor pack to his hand did not remove the price.

 

[Pom Pom]

Thank you for the advice. I will give it a shot!

 

[E_T]

Ok, this vendor penalty is getting extremely annoying. I'm selling the conjurer items and with the prices falling fast, I'm having to reprice the items once or twice a day. And guess what, I have to pay the stupid vendor penalty every time I reprice!! If this vendor penalty system is going to stick around they need to add a feature so you can reprice and item without removing it from your vendor. I'm getting charged way more than normal just for repricing items.