PVP tamer at the Gate

[5% Luck]

I have a tamer i like to hunt reds with. It seems most time all the reds leave when they see me coming. Now i can understand not wanting to play with my tamer as say a necro mage or a red disarm warrior. But is that a reason to bash me by saying its not fair or thats like killing ants with a bazooka? I mean where are the red bards that can discord my tames and kill em in seconds? Its ridicules to let one profession ruin your fun! Or even let the bards provok my pets on to me in felucia. Knight of Justice!

 

[Al Thorin]

A good number of PVP'rs consider PVM above them, and the simple concept of getting killed by a PVM template simply makes their blood boil.

That and tamers require the least amount of player skill : power ratio. A squirrel could play a blue gate hugging tamer and get kills.

As a result, tamers are not respected, regardless of player skill.

Me? I enjoy playing a tamer, I enjoy fighting as a tamer, and I take pride in being a -red- tamer.
So when I'm faced with hostility, I just think about 'the simple concept of getting killed by a PVM template simply makes their blood boil, and costs 2x as much', and I smile.

 

[Poo]

i go out of my way to KILL tamers when i find them in fel.

i cant remember the last time i died to a tamer while on my red..... if ever.

but then i have an unfair advantage, i play a red tamer as well on a few shards.
so i know what to do to kill them.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

Tamer's are overpowered in PvP, it's just fortunate most don't know how to utilize it effectively.

I have 0 respect for tamers in PvP, as they do nothing but spoil good fights.

 

[imported_Anakena]

<blockquote><hr>

Tamer's are overpowered in PvP, it's just fortunate most don't know how to utilize it effectively.

I have 0 respect for tamers in PvP, as they do nothing but spoil good fights.

[/ QUOTE ]

One can say the same of those who abused FC 5, UO ML archers and WoDers (right after UO-ML launch), bush mages, ... Yet those seems to be respected...

 

[Jaimes]

huh?

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

One can say the same of those who abused FC 5, UO ML archers and WoDers (right after UO-ML launch), bush mages, ... Yet those seems to be respected...

[/ QUOTE ]

No they aren't?

 

[Guest]

First Off, I am new to PVP and here is what I am finding.

All the slandering of every type of character is what they do in Fel. You're a ganker, your a GZ hugger, Your a house hugger. You evil omen , Para. You win cause you're a dexxer, a stealth, other etc.

Followed up by lots of profanity.

It comes from all guilds, towards all types. Its part of what they do.

A handful of skilled players entice others. They rarely attack a good fight, and wait for new players trying to learn and 3 and 4 attack them at once.


PvP so far seems very linear, very simple. I came to UO a few months ago hoping to jump into an old game with lots of Content, a good community, and some pvp. You have a 2 screen fight at Yew gate, and some champ spawns run by the top 2 or 3 guilds. Way too small minded for me.

It's really not all that and after dabbling into nearly every corner of the game, I read on these boards the exact complaints I find troubling myself.


Kill them all my man, hug the guard zone and laugh. Because I promise you, as soon as you step out there, weather a tamer or not, 4 8+ year vets are going to do whatever they can to team up on you and not let you make it back to the guard zone.

Lets just assume after an hour of them calling you a guard zone hugger, you get one into trouble....he will run and hide into a house.

Thats experience talking, so, all the negative comments about to come my way. Save them for Fel.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Tamer's are overpowered in PvP, it's just fortunate most don't know how to utilize it effectively.

I have 0 respect for tamers in PvP, as they do nothing but spoil good fights.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

 

[5% Luck]

Well Ill say it again

Where are the PVP bards!

to underscore the tamers........

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

PVP bards were nerfed when AoS system was added. Prior to that it was perfectly viable to play a very dangerous bard template, but with the introduction of resists via armour, it's no longer possible to pose any kind of real threat on a bard.

 

[5% Luck]

well IMO the awnser to the tamer is the peacemaker or the discorder. This can nutrilize any tamers tame. And dont forget every time a tamers pet dies it gets skill loss. Thats even for blues. So marking the skill damage you can see how far back your setting the tamer. 5 deaths sets me back at least 2 days of training the pet back up to gm.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

well IMO the awnser to the tamer is the peacemaker or the discorder. This can nutrilize any tamers tame. And dont forget every time a tamers pet dies it gets skill loss. Thats even for blues. So marking the skill damage you can see how far back your setting the tamer. 5 deaths sets me back at least 2 days of training the pet back up to gm.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm well aware of the in's and out's of a tamer. Peacemaking and discord also have a timer - which unless you use a certain bug, you can't bypass that. Tamers are not on a timer to say 'All kill'

Regardless, they are not even remotely fun too fight. Pets in PvP should be used as a secondary weapon, not primary. The damage output of a tamer with any kind of pvp knowledge is huge - not to mention they have as much defensive capabilities as any char.

 

[Guest]

To keep it as simple as possible.

Tamers aren't respected in PvP because they aren't PvPing.

They're having UO AI on a hugely beefed up creature fight for them.

If I wanted to go fight runebeetle's I would.

 

[5% Luck]

I fail to see how a red player could fight a rune bettle at all with out a tamer trying to kill them!

 

[Guest]

I'd log on my blue...

Or if I was really hard pressed I'd have a tamer tame and release one for me.

How's that for you.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

I fail to see how a red player could fight a rune bettle at all with out a tamer trying to kill them!

[/ QUOTE ]

A tamer in pvp should realistically have the '5 mage' skills - or dex skills. If you cannot survive 5 skill on a mage, then you need to practice. The only difference between you and a necro mage for example is, instead of having Necromacy / Spirit Speak, you have Animal Lore / Animal Taming.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this tamers are weak in pvp crap - if they are weak, its your template and your pvp ability that is the problem, not the actual fundementals, because I can assure you, there is absolutely nothing weak about a PvP tamer played correctly, and I stand by my original point, that they would be unbalanced played by the correct player.

 

[5% Luck]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this tamers are weak in pvp crap - if they are weak, its your template and your pvp ability that is the problem, not the actual fundementals, because I can assure you, there is absolutely nothing weak about a PvP tamer played correctly, and I stand by my original point, that they would be unbalanced played by the correct player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats the assumption of this thread Tamers are ruining the gate pvp with an overpowered under skilled tactic. What im saying is there is a correct counter to it an no one is listening.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

Thats the assumption of this thread Tamers are ruining the gate pvp with an overpowered under skilled tactic. What im saying is there is a correct counter to it an no one is listening.

[/ QUOTE ]

<blockquote><hr>

I'm well aware of the in's and out's of a tamer. Peacemaking and discord also have a timer - which unless you use a certain bug, you can't bypass that. Tamers are not on a timer to say 'All kill'

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I refer you to that comment.

 

[5% Luck]

Are you saying that a tamer is the ultimate PvP char.
If so youve never ran into a discord warrior as a tamer.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

Are you saying that a tamer is the ultimate PvP char.
If so youve never ran into a discord warrior as a tamer.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a correctly skilled player, I have no doubts it would be one of the ultimate PvP chars 1vs1, yes - technically 1vs2, as you have two disturbs opposed to 1.

Secondly, the above template you mentioned, warrior/discord, has very obvious weakness against mages, therefore theres a balance, so no, that would not be one of the ultimate PvP chars.

 

[5% Luck]

The mage has weaknesses too depending on how played/equiped just as the tamer just as the dexer. But the main point is ALL classes have a place at the gate!

 

[Guest]

Ok folks to deal with tamers and there pets simply kill the tamer then run off screen with out there master the pets loose interest and quit attacking.Its easy to kill tamers why so many complain about them is beond me.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

The mage has weaknesses too depending on how played/equiped just as the tamer just as the dexer. But the main point is ALL classes have a place at the gate!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't give a damn about 'gate' pvp, I never participate in that joke of a fight.

You also completely missed the point. All templates more or less have weakness against some class 1vs1. Why? Because it's needed to create balance. So yes, a mage has very obvious weakness. A necro mage is weak defensively, a healing mage is very weak offensively.

A tamer mage correctly setup is weak in neither.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

Ok folks to deal with tamers and there pets simply kill the tamer then run off screen with out there master the pets loose interest and quit attacking.Its easy to kill tamers why so many complain about them is beond me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but what? That tactic might work against someone who has no clue how to defend, or a pvmer, but on a pvp template, I would just laugh at your attempt trying to kill me, while my pet chases you.

I generally have no problems with tamers either, because as I have stated before, there is very few who know how to play the template effectively, as it does require a bit more skill than your average necro mage, this does not however change the fact, that they are slightly overpowered.

 

[the 4th man]

All's in love and war. When they cry for balance, it just means they really want to say....no fair, i'm telling!!

Basically, these guys can't handle it and they run. Anyone who boo-hoo's about tamers and balance is just outgunned....or just being a punk.

There is no balance in fighting, anyone who believes there is is a blind fool.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

All's in love and war. When they cry for balance, it just means they really want to say....no fair, i'm telling!!

Basically, these guys can't handle it and they run. Anyone who boo-hoo's about tamers and balance is just outgunned....or just being a punk.

There is no balance in fighting, anyone who believes there is is a blind fool.

[/ QUOTE ]
TAmers do have an unfair advantage in pvp having pets as a meat shield to take the damage why they unload on you is a bit unfair.Take out the tamers first like i posted before the rest will loose interest.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

All's in love and war. When they cry for balance, it just means they really want to say....no fair, i'm telling!!

Basically, these guys can't handle it and they run. Anyone who boo-hoo's about tamers and balance is just outgunned....or just being a punk.

There is no balance in fighting, anyone who believes there is is a blind fool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Posts like this are exactly the reason UO Hall is awful for even considering or discussing PvP changes.

0 thought or testing anything.

 

[imported_ElRay]

<blockquote><hr>


One can say the same of those who abused FC 5, UO ML archers and WoDers (right after UO-ML launch), bush mages, ... Yet those seems to be respected...

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahahahahahahaha *takes deep breath* bwaaaaaaaahahaha

 

[imported_ElRay]

<blockquote><hr>

All's in love and war. When they cry for balance, it just means they really want to say....no fair, i'm telling!!

Basically, these guys can't handle it and they run. Anyone who boo-hoo's about tamers and balance is just outgunned....or just being a punk.

There is no balance in fighting, anyone who believes there is is a blind fool.

[/ QUOTE ]

im sorry but your critical thinking skills were severely lacking in this post
please try again.

 

[5% Luck]

im sorry but your critical thinking skills were severely lacking in this post
please try again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like some one thought a little too much about their template befor meeting a tamer!

 

[imported_ElRay]

hehe im still laughing at anakenas post

 

[Rand Al Thor]

Tamers have been sitting ducks ever since EA nerfed them. If you can't kill a Tamer in PvP, then I suggest you get some skills. Sorry if that hurts, but unless something has changed of recent, tamers are not hard to kill. Back in the day they where a headach for reds and with good reason. But EA got the big nerf stick out and took care of that. Hence all the reds running the champ spawns. Give me two Pre UOR White Wyrms will full stats and I could easy rule not only a champ spawn, but any reds. And to the players who say being a tamer takes no skill, that is not ture. Players get mad when they can't kill every template the same way. If Tamers where over powered, that would be all you would see.

 

[Nixon[I-C]]

<blockquote><hr>

If you can't kill a Tamer in PvP, then I suggest you get some skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I already stated, I can generally kill tamers with ease, but only because most are clueless.

I seriously doubt you would be able to kill anyone who is properly equiped and can play a 5 skill mage properly - as I have stated countless times already though, it is a template that requires a degree of skill, which is why you don't see it dominating.

 

[5% Luck]

Try a ninja archer with a lil traking! Track em then deathstrike em the pet ball all kill pretty insta! then theres alway the option of use all 5 slots and going in animal form for mounted speed!! Now were talking template. But im sure a mage tamer could keep up too LOL

 

[Lord_Asterix]

<blockquote><hr>

I have a tamer i like to hunt reds with. It seems most time all the reds leave when they see me coming. Now i can understand not wanting to play with my tamer as say a necro mage or a red disarm warrior. But is that a reason to bash me by saying its not fair or thats like killing ants with a bazooka? I mean where are the red bards that can discord my tames and kill em in seconds? Its ridicules to let one profession ruin your fun! Or even let the bards provok my pets on to me in felucia. Knight of Justice!

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't provo other peoples pets.

 

[imported_wrekognize]

I've pvped on a lot of templates, and the best duels I have had were when I was on my tamer fighting another tamer who knew what they were doing. PVP on a tamer is not as easy as most think. Most people i've seen do it have no clue what they're doing. On Chessy, I've only seen 5 who really knew what they are doing,. and that was over the course of 3 years.


...

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

A tamer mage correctly setup is weak in neither.

[/ QUOTE ]
That I argue.

Any tamer based template is relient on their pet for offensive.

If you choose to remain defensive, you're char it's self is powerless, and there's many situations where a pet -cannot- be relied upon, or are easily distracted.

If you choose to go offensive on your template, you open yourself up with a serious lack of defenses outside of your pet.

If a player chooses to keep tabbing my beetle, there is little I can do outside of running away, and summoning it, then hoping I can be left alone long enough to focus on someone I don't want to.
If people play hit and run, there's little I can do to combat them.
If a player decides to focus on my pet, and is equiped with the right talismans or whatnot, I barely have time to back off, and attempt to pull them out to save them.

Should my pet die, I'm forced to attempt to res it, assuming I have bandaids. I've done pet resses while being killed, and it's not easy, but you don't have a -choice- other than running since you lack any power without them.

Should my pet -and- I die, unless someone gives me bandaids, I loose ~75% of my offensive power.

Even a warrior with no bandages retains their full offensive force. They just loose their ability to stave off alot of damage.

While unequaled in 1v1, tamers carry alot of weakness to go with their power.
Does that mean it's balanced?

Well, considering they are not a majority template, I tend to think it's more balances than people would like to admit.

Could it be adjusted to maybe have less weakness and less power? Sure, but like the current balance, it is going to be hard to find the right mix.

The -only- advantage a tamer has is the -potential- for burst damage. A quick and effecient kill, anything else puts them into a precarious position.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

I seriously doubt you would be able to kill anyone who is properly equiped and can play a 5 skill mage properly - as I have stated countless times already though, it is a template that requires a degree of skill, which is why you don't see it dominating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things;
First, I fight with 4 skills outside of taming, and there arn't many people who can kill me 1v1. Teamed up on though, it varies.

(I want Shadow Wyrms!!)

Second, I think Vet should be required for anyone wanting to res their own pet.
A tamer who gets pet resses from other sources should be penalized harshly.

 

[Guest]

First of all this guy is fighting at the gate for starters, secondly he's playing a tamer and thirdly he's claiming bards are useful in PvP.

Clearly he has no idea whatsoever, why do you guys bother responding? Everyone knows that tamers are for people who can't push more than three buttons.

 

[Al Thorin]

A Gate tamer only uses 3 buttons.

A field tamer uses as many buttons and keys as you do. (maybe not a stealth tamer)

 

[Trailer Trash]

the problem i have with these pvp tamers is that if you kill them they can just log out and the pets just vanish, thats bull!!! If the pets are flagged on you they should not disapear just cause the player logs out!!! With logging and the pets balls it advantage tamer and its just a little too much!!!

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

I logged in the other night, this archer tamer targeted me, missed his dismount, i run around a house and then off screen to invis from the pets, and then I got hit with over 100 damage in spells, from off screen. They didn't even melee me! It was double eb triple fs I think.

I was saddened

 

[Al Thorin]

My first reaction is to call BS, but, while that extreme is -not- normal, I suspect it's possible.

Afterall, I get FS'd by spawn casting on me at a spawn, and it lands in the starroom. ?!?

Currently, that's the reason why I stick to casting pets, they're a little more dangerous, but it's a pain to have to seach a 3x3 screen area to try to find the bloody body.

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

yeah I wasn't too pleased. Pvmed from off screen &gt; me. It was a nightmare and a rune beetle. To all these people saying that it is hard to play, and that it is actually a rather weak template and easily killed, you're all pretty foolish. Yeah, you're going to counter cast and kill the tamer while two pets are hitting you/casting on you (faster than 4/6 casting), while the MAGE is sitting there weaken spamming you so you can't teleport (if dismounted), or just weaken spamming just for the heck of it so you can't do anything. If you use protection, you're just dead if they munch you, and of course the mage can then paralyze you so the pets can reach you.

I dunno, it seems that nowadays a fight with a tamer is either insanely easy (pets miss, aren't casting for some reason, and I can get an explode fs fs off), or insanely impossible. Sometimes it's purely the pets without any interaction from the player besides "all kill", where the pets warp instantly to your location and do 1/2 damage in the first .5 seconds of the fight, and other times it's the fact that you can't cast with an experienced mage interrupting you alongside 2 insane magic casting monsters.

The fact that I am beyond rusty has little to do with it. If pets did not have the warping ability, and they followed the same casting rules as players (and this should apply for all monsters), including the ability to interrupt them, then it would not be so ********.

In summary: Instant kills = bad, no challenge = bad... let's find a middle ground.

 

[smile]

Whether tamers want to admit or not, pets are overpowered. They can do the most incredible damage in the shortest time. Aside from their incredible melee damage and specials, they have fc 4 (maybe higher) for magery spells and can cast on the move. These are in addition to the tamer's ability to do damage or some other mischief at the same time. Basically, it is 3 vs 1.

Pets have no place in pvp due to its overpowering abilities that had been ignored for years. The last nerf served to reduce the degree of mischief that a tamer could do. Some of these would include the tamer's ability to even prevent his victims from attempting to run away from the pets, which reinforced the fact that pets are overpowered. Even with the removal of certain abilities, pets are still the main problem.

The rest had been covered by other true pvpers so i need not repeat.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Tamers have been sitting ducks ever since EA nerfed them. If you can't kill a Tamer in PvP, then I suggest you get some skills. Sorry if that hurts, but unless something has changed of recent, tamers are not hard to kill. Back in the day they where a headach for reds and with good reason. But EA got the big nerf stick out and took care of that. Hence all the reds running the champ spawns. Give me two Pre UOR White Wyrms will full stats and I could easy rule not only a champ spawn, but any reds. And to the players who say being a tamer takes no skill, that is not ture. Players get mad when they can't kill every template the same way. If Tamers where over powered, that would be all you would see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, thats why LS has seen a large surge of tamers in PvP as of late.

Because its not overpowered.

That's why VIP has tamers. Because they're no good for PvP. Hugely nerfed.

Thats why PvPers are complaining about them.

Because they suck and are no good at PvP.

/sarcasm

Seriously, get a clue.

Watch this.

120 Mage. Med. Eval. Resist. Oh look. You can mage PvP. Equip yourself a SCNP on handed mage weapon with DCI and now we can chug.

Find a high end ecru with 10+ magery, and the treatise on alchemy talisman. Guess what, Now we can chug for damn near half our health.

Can't cast an EV everytime, but dammit who needs that when you have taming and lore to control pets.

Rune Beetle, + Nightmare, + a fully functional mage VS you.

Mage runs on foot, swings a bola, you run, he tele's after you as best as he can (almost always good enough to get you on foot).

Summon Pets.

All Kill, Last Target.

Guess whats on your ass now. 3 targets. If you stop moving you will most likely be crushed.

I HOPE THAT TAMER DOESN'T RUN A SPEED PROGGY.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Yea, thats why LS has seen a large surge of tamers in PvP as of late.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen -1- other tamer on a regular basis on LS. Either my rose colored glasses are opaque, or you're smoking something.

 

[5% Luck]

Most important here is when i say a bard i mean to discord my pet for the INSTA kill. When a rune bettle is discorded a gm swordsman with little else can kill it in 2 swings with the proper talisman. Hence even if there are more tamers at the gate then it just leaves room for more professions to play with! So make a different type of char and stop whining cause when my mages gets dropped in 2 seconds at the gate and then your dexxor gets dropped at the gate and the TAMER gets droped a the gate in the same time frame all that comes around goes around and we find PvP Zen.

So every char/template has a hole in it and that is PROPER PvP

 

[5% Luck]

<blockquote><hr>

A Gate tamer only uses 3 buttons.


Yea yea Ive seen those scripts that use your aids for you and chug pots for you If you think thats harder to do then push buttons your missing something!