PvP and Powerscrolls

[Guest]

2 things are dominated by the gold seller trade the spawns and idoc's if you read some of the bigger pvp guild descripts they state out right they offer services including gold.

the money is a Rl motivating factor for the stuff that hapens IE ghost cams and being gang ****d by swarms.

Trammel \ Felucca is problematic by design, that and quite a few other things bring out the worst in human nature in this game.

when they created UO they intended to make it a real world in its own right, in certain ways they did too good of a job.

I feel UO has the best world offered but WoW has a better system for PvP.

on our shard 3 of us have done a spawn but that will change as the shard fills up more and more control is executed by war guilds.
Ive PvPed in UO starting way back in factions but the system is glitchy and additudes are pretty extreem I think the best balance can by found on siege
where it is more player vrs player as oposed to additude vrs additude.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

Thank you for the Harrower last night... i had a blast!

Cya on the field!

Good job there Nystul! Folk sure cast fast!

 

[Connor_Graham]

"quite a few other things bring out the worst in human nature in this game"

The only thing that brings out the worst in human nature are the humans themselves.

It's easy to be a jackass on the internet where you don't have to fear reprisals.

 

[imported_Castor]

<blockquote><hr>

Long and short of it, an honest player can't compete for the most part with a speed hacking, script kiddie. They do nothing but move their character and toggle a few special strikes all other necessities are on auto pilot, where as I have to watch my health, heal, out maneuver a turbo charged toon, and at the same time get in hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

as a siege pk(former i guess at this rate), i 100% agree with you. The rampent speed hacking, the autoloots and the other cheats pretty much drove me out of uo.

 

[Guest]

On Europa I'm pretty sure one of our dominant PS guilds for a while, started out as PvMers...

I don't know if they still do, but we also had a large PvM guild who did trips to Fel for scrolls.

We've also had successful open harrower spawns with more than a few RPers and other Tram residents fighting alongside the "dewds"

Some guilds put up the scrolls for the event and while the harrower was battled inside, the PvPers fought up a storm outside. And inside too lol.

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

If you had spawns in tram people would just farm them because they dont have to worry bout being raided. Then the scroll prices would drop and be worthless.

You take pvprs and put them in a trammel environment and they become farmers and fel dies.

leave them in fel.

 

[Guest]

Agreed 100%

More players should be encouraged into Fel, not fewer.

Wenchy

 

[Sakkarah]

<blockquote><hr>

How many Trammies are lured to fel for powerscrolls?
I mean to ask, how many of you who only PvM go to Fel somewhat regularly to get powerscrolls?

[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno that we can say that the powerscrolls alone are luring Trammies to Fel. It certainly did heavily for a while, especially in the earlier days when they would get teleported to town with all their gear upon death.

Now there are still people coming to Fel for powerscrolls, but they usually join Fel guilds to do so. Frankly, Trammies provide for most of the new blood in champ spawn guilds. Not only because it often is the only way they have a chance to pull one off, but also those Trammies are often people who wish to learn to PvP, so the PS are just the extra incentive and the potential reward to help fund their PvP training.

There are some Trammie guilds that do venture in Fel solely for scrolls from time to time. That's pretty much the only time we ever see them in Fel (at least on Atlantic), aside from the occasional events where spawn areas in Tram are too heavily camped so they figure trying their luck in Fel is worth the risk.

 

[Slicer]

"Agreed 100%

More players should be encouraged into Fel, not fewer.

Wenchy "

And just how much longer do we need to "encourage" people to go to Fel?

Fel has double resources, and the most valuable item needed in the game, yet Fel still needs more and more encouragement to enter. Perhaps it's time that Fel stood on it's on, and people played there for "The Superior Playstyle of PVP", or "The Only Thing Worth Playing for PVP", that we all keep hearing about.

If Fel is this wonderful place that the real true UO players care so much about, why do we need "encouragements" for people to go there?

Just a thought, from someone that remembers UO before there was a Tram.

 

[Guest]

We need encouragements so players stop listening to stories from players who got PKd years ago and swore to remain in Tram and actually visit for themselves. I've lost count of the 2nd and 3rd hand tales I've heard, and the surprised players who've lapped up the Fel life when seeing it first hand.

We also have to compete with the huge number of incentives to stay in Tram. All those lovely items which spawn there, yet not in Fel for example. As players are spread over more facets, engaged in a wider range of PvM hunts etc, so Fel does need some fresh incentives like the book of truth quest.

Even if there are events alongside longer term content, if they are regular, each and every time a player visits and learns that Fel isn't 100% murdering griefers, is another chance they'll settle, try PvP and so on. But Fel certainly deserves content just the same as the Tram facets, just to "keep up" the flow of new Fel players.

Wenchy

 

[HD2300]

<blockquote><hr>

We also have to compete with the huge number of incentives to stay in Tram. All those lovely items which spawn there, yet not in Fel for example. As players are spread over more facets, engaged in a wider range of PvM hunts etc, so Fel does need some fresh incentives like the book of truth quest.

Even if there are events alongside longer term content, if they are regular, each and every time a player visits and learns that Fel isn't 100% murdering griefers, is another chance they'll settle, try PvP and so on. But Fel certainly deserves content just the same as the Tram facets, just to "keep up" the flow of new Fel players.

Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

To paraphase Wenchy, "I want more events like the Book of Truth, because it effectively lured people to Fel with higher drop rates."

So why not put powerscrolls permanently in Trammel, which will continually lure more players to Fel, because of the higher drop rates.

 

[Sakkarah]

<blockquote><hr>

To paraphase Wenchy, "I want more events like the Book of Truth, because it effectively lured people to Fel with higher drop rates."

So why not put powerscrolls permanently in Trammel, which will continually lure more players to Fel, because of the higher drop rates.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because the Book of Truth was a temporary event. People only came to Fel to increase their chances of snagging more books before they went away. Powerscrolls are here to stay. You put them in Tram, people will not come to Fel for them anymore because even if it takes a little longer to get them in Tram due to competition, they will have all the time in the world to get them regardless.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

So why not put powerscrolls permanently in Trammel, which will continually lure more players to Fel, because of the higher drop rates.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not convinced that those events proved to be a good model. Although in theory, I would have thought it was a good system, ironically, I think the difference in drop rates was more annoying than not getting them at all - it felt like being teased with something I couldn't have (or couldn't have a life while getting).

Yes, the lures to Fel are very annoying for those of us who don't want to be lured. However, that being said, there are players who are willing to play both sides and do need a lure to get them to brave the risks. I don't know any personally, but I'm sure they exist. This thread was intended (if I understand Flutter correctly) to give this middle group (Trammies willing to happily brave Fel for a reward) a chance to step into the spotlight and have their say about what does or doesn't make them eager to skip across the gate.

The problem is that this thread is rapidly deteriorating into a traditional Tram/Fel flamewar, making it highly unlikely that people not committed to a "side" will want to step in the middle of it all. (of course, by posting, I'm now part of the problem)

 

[Guest]

I lived in Fel, before it was Fel. Once I had a choice I went to the playstyle I enjoy. No amount of carrot dangling will get back.

 

[imported_wrekognize]

<blockquote><hr>

How many Trammies are lured to fel for powerscrolls?
I mean to ask, how many of you who only PvM go to Fel somewhat regularly to get powerscrolls?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're a smaller guild who normally does peerless or doom. We did two spawns last night. It was fun.

...

 

[Guest]

Right now, my characters are still in training, but I would consider going to Felucca for the chance to fight for my own Powerscrolls once I've gotten out of the development stage.

I have no problems with buying the Scrolls, but I've always preferred to earn the items I want or need through gameplay, if possible. For me, the whole experience is more fun and rewarding.

I would definately want a group of more experienced players, hopefully friends, to go with the first few times, just so I could get comfortable and learn how things work with the spawns and all, proper hunting/fighting 'ettiquette' also. It's always more enjoyable if you know what's going on, and how to contribute postively to the fight.

Good Hunting to all, whether you are exploring Felucca or Trammel! =)

 

[imported_ElRay]

<blockquote><hr>

This is to the supposed leet pvpers.. An there comments about you should learn to pvp..

Stat loss... Not only me but a few of my friends have killed reds an we do it all the time... We will get one or a few... I will always be in favor of stat loss..

We get our kills an leave just before the horde of reds turn up..

As for pvp an power scrolls it was meant to be a good thing to fight over but with the lack of gm support over cheats hacks well we all know the answer to that...

An yes bring back stat loss and there red numbers will dewindle to hardly any...

[/ QUOTE ]


ahhh yes thank you, someone who gets it.....bring back statloss, trammel will come to Felucca for powerscrolls alone because all half ass reds will be gone(75-80%) just like they came to Felucca before statloss was removed which I recall with clarity there were TONS, TONS of trammies at champ spawns, not red guilds which we mostly have raiding/doing today

reimplement chaos/order, how much more simple can it get then 2 warring sides? I think its much more simple then todays guild system which requires you to war and accept specific guilds, and it lets you fight in trammel as well

fix factions give incentives like special armor/weapons(not overpowering) etc

overall give more options in pvp then just "spawn scroll pvp"

this is all just IMO

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

on one hand stat loss seems so outdated in todays UO, and in the other, sure go right ahead, soulstones will be more widely sought.

 

[imported_ElRay]

<blockquote><hr>

on one hand stat loss seems so outdated in todays UO, and in the other, sure go right ahead, soulstones will be more widely sought.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I interpret your post correctly, your saying that reds will just soulstone their skills onto a blue only to go red again and rinse repeat?

id say that would be very expensive in scrolls unless they are using 7xgm skills

 

[imported_ElRay]

look, powerscroll spawn pvp is fine, I just thought we had a better system with statloss which allowed trammel into felucca, without having to deal with rampant pking, sure there was a pk here and there, and heck maybe 3 or 4 heckling the trammy crowds at spawns.......but it allowed trammel into felucca(especially to get at powerscrolls)....something which is impossible atm

PKing wasnt as rampant as today so more people were using the other systems (factions/order&amp;chaos) then they do today, thats why I think AOSbies on this board are so used to being pks and dont want to change, its because thats all they ever knew since those systems died with AOS, they are so used to one way they do not want to change....+ powerscrolls are lucrative.....I do not forsee red guilds wanting to give up their monopolies on them too

its also true they are great incentive to fight over so I understand that part too

all just my opinion

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

you'd be surprised

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

So why not put powerscrolls permanently in Trammel, which will continually lure more players to Fel, because of the higher drop rates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because we Fel residents deserve and enjoy our own permanent spawns like the many enjoyed on the Tram facets. Fel needs more added, not taken away. Events pull people in sometimes, others are flops. They don't take away the need for permanent spawns.

I have yet to see a single reason for moving the powerscroll spawns that justifies the damage it'd do to Fel.

Wenchy

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

<blockquote><hr>

I have yet to see a single reason for moving the powerscroll spawns that justifies the damage it'd do to Fel.
Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

Equity... players pay the same monthly fee, should have the same game content... right now that is not happening... not due to game mechanics but due to huge wolfish guilds that for the most part... cheat.

*...goes back to spawning wildly waving his pompons*
GO DEVS!

 

[Guest]

And we pay the same monthly fee that you do to play in Fel, aye? 'tis a wee bit short of item spawns though *pokes head out from behind the pile of hides she's collected on her latest adventure*

Aye, we're equal in Fel. Today I'll go play in the Fel version of Doom, then later I'll go tame a cu sidhe in fel too. Maybe even bash the odd paragon lich near my tavern. Oh wait... I forgot those things only spawn on the other facets...My bad.

It's a wee bit like saying "you can have any colour, so long as it's black" - in our case, if you had your way it'd be "you can get anything you like, if you like tram, and aren't red"

Wenchy

 

[imported_Splup]

<blockquote><hr>



ahhh yes thank you, someone who gets it.....bring back statloss, trammel will come to Felucca for powerscrolls alone because all half ass reds will be gone(75-80%) just like they came to Felucca before statloss was removed which I recall with clarity there were TONS, TONS of trammies at champ spawns, not red guilds which we mostly have raiding/doing today

reimplement chaos/order, how much more simple can it get then 2 warring sides? I think its much more simple then todays guild system which requires you to war and accept specific guilds, and it lets you fight in trammel as well

fix factions give incentives like special armor/weapons(not overpowering) etc

overall give more options in pvp then just "spawn scroll pvp"

this is all just IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Check my Promoting Factions thread @ Ideas Den. I propose that reds should have same kind of loss as factions have at the moment, but it would last 2x longer.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I have yet to see a single reason for moving the powerscroll spawns that justifies the damage it'd do to Fel.
Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

Equity... players pay the same monthly fee, should have the same game content... right now that is not happening... not due to game mechanics but due to huge wolfish guilds that for the most part... cheat.

GO DEVS!

[/ QUOTE ]You have access to precisely the same content as everyone else. It is your choice not to take part in an activity in Fel.

Saying its due to cheating doesnt hold water. Its organisation by people that don't PvP that is lacking. They need to get a group of people together, get PvP suits for them all, practice PvP in groups and at Yew gate, sort out tactics and what to do with any scrolls, etc, etc. Instead of this though people come here and whine for a dumbed-down handout in Tram. Bah.

 

[imported_Sip-n-Shine]

<blockquote><hr>

on one hand stat loss seems so outdated in todays UO, and in the other, sure go right ahead, soulstones will be more widely sought.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes they can soul stone there skills... It,s just when will they use them after a death? Or will they have 120 of there skills already done... Either way it is more work for them to lead there life style..

Stat loss is a way to bring back what is left of the blue community to fight the good fight..

It would be nice to revise Factions an or Order/Chaos this would be a great thing for Uo as a whole..

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

I have done all of that... the team, the training, the items.

I have finished collecting most of the 120s I need...

Just pointing out that not all is skill, cpu speed, team tactics, etc.

So please do not say most dont cheat when it comes to pvp... I am there daily and I know they do... I even know how they do it and so can anyone with a search engine...

I agree that while I was in Europa it was much less visible... (but still there... yup, I was in vent and I listened and learnt but decided to proceed with my own playstyle...)

Hopefully we'll have someone to police the traffic and establish Speed
Llimits and Field Code... but if I am correct... that will be one of the last things to be sorted.

... and I say it again...

*GO DEVS*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Saying its due to cheating doesnt hold water. Its organisation by people that don't PvP that is lacking.

[/ QUOTE ]
It really has a lot to do with it nowadays where it didn't in the past. Organization is great Fox but whole guilds are cheating now and there just isn't room for trammies to go to fel and learn against well organized cheaters. From what I see it's close to half now where it used to be only 1/10th or 1/8th a year or two ago.

Mind you it's still possible to spawn but you have to get up at the crack of dawn or just plain get lucky. I'd like to see ghosts without bodies be removed from the spawn areas though. This wouldn't be perfect but it would help somewhat.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

Average time for a team to do a Baracoon Spawn is LESS than the time it takes to scout all T2A champ spawning areas... unless a team is scouting...

Aye, no ghosts/stealth camped there would be a step in the right direction.

The solution is also simple...
- if you log out in T2A, you could be taken to Delutia or Papua (not instantly or it will be abused...)
- if you log out in a legacy dungeon, you could be taken to Cove (again not instantly or it will be abused...)

 

[Guest]

I know cheating happens, however I still dont think its the major reason people fail at champ spawns. Its just a good excuse.

The real reason is that Fel guilds are just so much more experienced, skilled and better equipped. They have to be to compete with each other. I've been PvPing for years and there are still people in a class above me that I will never kill. Not for want of trying but simply because they are better at this game than me.

Tram people often dont get this. Tram is so predictable and easy compared to Fel that a visit there is a shock that leaves a group of 10 blues all dead within minutes.

I maintain that this games does not need further dumbing down. Getting power and stat scrolls is the hardest thing you can do in UO and moving them to Tram so that people can farm them at zero risk would be a final nail in UO's coffin. People either need to take the step up that it requires or quit whining.

 

[Lord Kotan]

<blockquote><hr>

Average time for a team to do a Baracoon Spawn is LESS than the time it takes to scout all T2A champ spawning areas... unless a team is scouting...

Aye, no ghosts/stealth camped there would be a step in the right direction.

The solution is also simple...
- if you log out in T2A, you could be taken to Delutia or Papua (not instantly or it will be abused...)
- if you log out in a legacy dungeon, you could be taken to Cove (again not instantly or it will be abused...)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be more willing to do champ spawns if this was true.

I mean, some people will say this can be abused... but help option already does this (faster, 2 minutes, instead of 5 minutes time out).

Just my 2 cents again... up to like a 1.46 now I believe.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

... or:
- while the fell units use extra advantages/tools.
- sell the powerscrolls on their sites for real $.
- sell the stat scrolls on their sites for real $.

I bet once the real value of power/stat scrolls drops to 0$ we wont have this discussion...

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

<blockquote><hr>

I mean, some people will say this can be abused... but help option already does this (faster, 2 minutes, instead of 5 minutes time out).

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually the ghosts/stealthers are left there... so it wont matter if it is instant or not.

The abuse comes when you are fighting in T2A or any Legacy Dungeon and you would be instantly teleported to safety... the way it is now... you wait... then you depart... not fair but also not instant.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

... or:
- while the fell units use extra advantages/tools.
- sell the powerscrolls on their sites for real $.
- sell the stat scrolls on their sites for real $.

I bet once the real value of power/stat scrolls drops to 0$ we wont have this discussion...

[/ QUOTE ]Maybe. I can only speak for what happens on Europa in one of the largest alliances and I can tell you that there are no guilds regularly selling scrolls for $RL. We do it for the fun/challenge. The relatively small amount (~10M each/month) we make is ploughed back into our gear and resources.

Some Tram people that think people in Fel are making a RL living off powerscrolls are dreaming. Either you do it in a small group (so large shares) and risk being raided a lot or you are in a large guild/alliance and the shares are very small.

I suppose that some guilds sell scrolls for $RL but to be honest it won't make much when shared out and most people will just spend this on UO gold and items. And lets not forget that people are willing to pay $RL for them and are as much to 'blame' as the sellers.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

That was what I loved in Europe.

The Balance, the fair PVP and the many friends I made there and all their help...

Basically, that is one of the major reasons I kept playing... the other is simple... the UO devs really, really, really care about UO.

 

[imported_Zhakarin]

<blockquote><hr>

Then learn to pvp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh... this from a member of the guild (largest active guild in uo?) that raids Panda's spawns on Pac. You know the score, skill/pvp-ability matters little when the odds are 3+ to 1 and the larger group has obvious "advantages". We champ with 3-5, you raid with 12+ as soon as the champ pops. I understand it's your right to raid like that, but don't attempt to belittle someone for being unable to overcome amazing odds, especially when you have intimate knowledge of the exact situation he is talking about.

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Then learn to pvp.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

And this from another member of the same zerg guild... you should know better too. The last time I recall getting raided by your guild with even numbers (4v4, last summer probably), we finished our champ among your corpses and walked out with the scrolls. Shame on you, taunting your victims after ganking/zerging them and rez-killing doesn't exactly encourage them to try again another day, which is what I would think a pvp guild like yours wants (more victims.) Try to at least feign a little dignity.... there are some rather nice folks in your guild, maybe you two can learn something from them.

I enjoy pvp, and don't mind the prospect of loosing a champ to a larger guild, or better yet, fighting close to even numbers for the champ, if the raiding guild actually had to manually scout.

<blockquote><hr>

They also have an uncanny ability to show up with like 20 people just as you have summoned the champion (Ghost Cam?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the scrolls should remain in Fel, but I also think managing the champs/power-scroll market on shard like a business, using questionable (at best) means to monitor them needs to end. Perhaps no ghosts in champ areas without a corresponding corpse and no hiding/stealth/invis either would do the trick.