[Selling] Pssst....hey you....wanna buy some rares? (Estate Sale)

[Lord Nabin]

Nope - I never said anything related to opening up a conversation about prior events. If you actually read what I said - "people should make their own conclusions as opposed to taking just one side"

People have been making sly remarks and comments, I'm providing the other side.

Asking people to make their own conclusions is asking for them to be provided with the information in order to make that choice in conclusion.

Let's then get past the "Sly remarks and comments" and down to the truth of the situation so that people can make their own conclusions based on the proper information.

"I'm providing the other side." Great now the community can provide their side. I have every confidence that they can provide that information in a form that is not a personal attack but fact driven.

It was your request.

It opens the discussion

 

[StonewallGL]

[Auction] - A Captured Northern Light Used to Guide The Way Of Wandering Travelers -- @Lord Nabin

I don't intend to derail this thread any further. But since one of my prior threads was linked, I feel like I should clarify. That transaction was between you and I, Nemesis. Nabin was just also bidding on the same item.

 

[Trevor Phillips]

I retract all my bids.

 

[Picus at the office]

Is this the stuff which got yoinked years back at a rares fest, while this won't be popular I have to say that it's still the fault of the promoters who ran the event. I don't mind derailing this thread as I have nothing in it and I couldn't care a less about the OP, those who got the yoink or those who still care but I do care that some people were foolish enough to let a known thief(RP or otherwise) into the safe area of the auction house. It showed a amazing lack of foresight, planning and detail which should have been present from day one. It might be tacky to point a finger but so be it.

Good luck with the auction, we all know that people will buy this stuff if they want it. It's no different than a rich guy holding a stolen piece of art in his private gallery, slimy sure but reality...yup.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Is this the stuff which got yoinked years back at a rares fest, while this won't be popular I have to say that it's still the fault of the promoters who ran the event. I don't mind derailing this thread as I have nothing in it and I couldn't care a less about the OP, those who got the yoink or those who still care but I do care that some people were foolish enough to let a known thief(RP or otherwise) into the safe area of the auction house. It showed a amazing lack of foresight, planning and detail which should have been present from day one. It might be tacky to point a finger but so be it.

Good luck with the auction, we all know that people will buy this stuff if they want it. It's no different than a rich guy holding a stolen piece of art in his private gallery, slimy sure but reality...yup.

Noted

I would say the rares fest staff took responsibility for that since they pulled their gold together and paid everyone for the items that were in their hands to be auctioned and stolen on their watch. A lot of other folks would have just said "sorry lesson learned"

Sure someone will buy all those items like you said some year, but I doubt an open sale here on the Stratics Rares forum will ever accomplish that. It's been what five years now and when they pop up the community seems to get involved one way or another.

 

[Blue Fly]

Is this the stuff which got yoinked years back at a rares fest, while this won't be popular I have to say that it's still the fault of the promoters who ran the event. I don't mind derailing this thread as I have nothing in it and I couldn't care a less about the OP, those who got the yoink or those who still care but I do care that some people were foolish enough to let a known thief(RP or otherwise) into the safe area of the auction house. It showed a amazing lack of foresight, planning and detail which should have been present from day one. It might be tacky to point a finger but so be it.

Good luck with the auction, we all know that people will buy this stuff if they want it. It's no different than a rich guy holding a stolen piece of art in his private gallery, slimy sure but reality...yup.

So If you watched someone drop their wallet, and it had money in it, you would keep it all and make no attempt to give it back?

Of course some people will still bid, but as a community many have made the decision not to support.

 

[Picus at the office]

Noted

I would say the rares fest staff took responsibility for that since they pulled their gold together and paid everyone for the items that were in their hands to be auctioned and stolen on their watch. A lot of other folks would have just said "sorry lesson learned"

Sure someone will buy all those items like you said some year, but I doubt an open sale here on the Stratics Rares forum will ever accomplish that. It's been what five years now and when they pop up the community seems to get involved one way or another.

It was the correct action but isn't noted in the fury of the moment. I'm sure that back then I said the same thing and it's worth noting if only so more diligence is placed at any similar event. The action took by the OP wasn't the sort of action I, personally, would have taken but I can't fault him for attempting to profit. It was rather clear at the time what he did, how he did it and he didn't shy from it. There was no way that had I been running that show I would have let him in the door, nothing personal at all but it wouldn't have passed the test.

So If you watched someone drop their wallet, and it had money in it, you would keep it all and make no attempt to give it back?

Of course some people will still bid, but as a community many have made the decision not to support.

I would return the item in that case. I have found wallets before, drove to the house listed inside and returned the wallet with a note saying I have taken $5 for the cost of a slurpie and gas. Does this make a steller chap, I think not but it's the code I personally work with. If I found these items to be worthy of my desire I might bid or I might not but they don't so I have no thoughts on that stance.

 

[Smoot]

Is this the stuff which got yoinked years back at a rares fest, while this won't be popular I have to say that it's still the fault of the promoters who ran the event. I don't mind derailing this thread as I have nothing in it and I couldn't care a less about the OP, those who got the yoink or those who still care but I do care that some people were foolish enough to let a known thief(RP or otherwise) into the safe area of the auction house. It showed a amazing lack of foresight, planning and detail which should have been present from day one. It might be tacky to point a finger but so be it.

Good luck with the auction, we all know that people will buy this stuff if they want it. It's no different than a rich guy holding a stolen piece of art in his private gallery, slimy sure but reality...yup.

to a point i agree. however in game as well as in real life, even if people "should have been more careful" thats not an excuse for taking advantage. you cant really say "well its the victims fault because she shouldnt have been walking down that alley at night" or "well they should have locked their house, then they wouldnt have been murdered"

While its actually one of the reasons i love UO, beacuse even with insurance and tram theres still lots of risk and player accountability. i also have the choice of who to deal with. and it does cause people to quit the game after a large loss.

i agree that many of the situations could have been avoided if people had been more careful. especially the raresfest. committing a crime against someone being careless doesnt excuse the criminal, but yes people should also take more precautions than many do especially when it comes to rares given the large value involved.

 

[Scott]

1. Pelt of the Fabled White Heart - 125m

please remove my bid, ty!

 

[Picus at the office]

Indeed, in the case of this game I don't think that the comparison with the noted situations is correct but still I can understand the concept. I would say in this case it would be closer to placing a case of beer in a AA meeting and expecting nothing horrible to happen.

 

[Captn Norrington]

Well, since Nemesis has graciously opened this topic for discussion by tagging all those people I will add my opinion.

There is a difference between stealing and scamming. I have no problems at all with a player using the stealing skill the way it was intended, by looking through someone's backpack and getting lucky finding an uninsured item they can take. In the modern game this means in Felucca only.

I do not like guild thieves who terrorize a guild by pretending to be a new player then robbing the guild after they join.
I do not like scammers who advertise they are selling one thing, when really they are selling something far less valuable and know it.
I do not like impersonator scammers who try pretending to be a well known person to trick their friends into handing over valuable items.
I do not like thieves who steal in ways that were not intended, like following someone into their house and picking up items as they lock them down.
I especially do not like thieves who do any of the above things at player run events designed to help the community, solely for profit or to become "famous" or win a thieving competition.

The way these items were acquired involved multiple things listed above.

 

[Assia Penryn]

*scribbles down a few links* Google is your friend. Always do research before doing business with people you are not familiar with. OhmyGed = Nemesis

A PAH Announcement and Apology!
[Discussion] - Pacific Rare's Events Festival Auction recoup to sellers from Robbery
[Auction] - The ULTIMATE Rare Auction
[Discussion] - FYI Items stolen at rares festival
[Selling] - Selling some rares...

(There are many more references I'm sure folks could find. )

I urge the staff to allow this post to stay and let this user's public record speak for itself and protect newer members of our community who may not making an educating choice.

 

[Smoot]

Indeed, in the case of this game I don't think that the comparison with the noted situations is correct but still I can understand the concept. I would say in this case it would be closer to placing a case of beer in a AA meeting and expecting nothing horrible to happen.

i wouldnt say its exactly the same. itll be very interesting to see the legal precedents set in the area of virtual theft in the next 10 years as it becomes more of a part of peoples real-life identity and considered a substantial, meaningful possession. UO rares is a perfect example of that. if you do a quick google search theres already been a handful of real life convictions for virtual theft in video games, so the concept is emerging within gaming communities as well as real life courts.

in a game with the stealing skill, yes players do agree to be submitted to certain conditions associated with the actual skill. but anything else can fall into the category of whats been prosecuted so far.

 

[Nemesis]

 

[BrianFreud]

Is this the stuff which got yoinked years back at a rares fest, while this won't be popular I have to say that it's still the fault of the promoters who ran the event. I don't mind derailing this thread as I have nothing in it and I couldn't care a less about the OP, those who got the yoink or those who still care but I do care that some people were foolish enough to let a known thief(RP or otherwise) into the safe area of the auction house. It showed a amazing lack of foresight, planning and detail which should have been present from day one. It might be tacky to point a finger but so be it.

Good luck with the auction, we all know that people will buy this stuff if they want it. It's no different than a rich guy holding a stolen piece of art in his private gallery, slimy sure but reality...yup.

As in, those who pay attention will notice when they see the pieces? Home - The Art Loss Register is the real life version. For items which were - can I say 'appropriated in bulk' without breaking the rules? - outside of the festival items, I know at least one of the proper owners has already noticed this thread.

Where it IS the same as stolen art in real life is this:

"That kind of scrutiny, says Bonnie Magness-Gardiner, the art theft program manager for the FBI, makes it “very hard to sell stolen work.” Plus, the more prominent the artwork, the less likely a thief is to sell it. “There are no buyers for masterworks,” ... “People talk about paintings selling for 10 percent of their value on the black market,” he says. “But masterpieces are still too expensive even at 10 percent—no one’s going to spend millions for a work they can never show anyone.”
- What Happens to Stolen Art After a Heist?​

 

[lineman]

The funny thing is that another thief ousted him when this happened, you will not find no old links to it because they were deleted for having icq messages in it. Some good people quit this game never to return because of this guy.

 

[Picus at the office]

It's a total shame what happened but this was the first time that the OP was let behind the door and, if my understanding is correct, the first time and "unknown" factor was allowed into the vault. Did it cross a moral threshold, of course it did. Should the OP be ostracized, sure why not. Yet here we are, stuff will sell for those who want it. People will argue with their own moral compass and it's up to them to decide which path to take.

I find it funny in a sad way but it's not unexpected at all.

 

[Nemesis]

I laugh because people may point their fingers to me (regarding what happened at the Pacific Rare Fest) based on the actions of a thief named @Tetricyde ..... just sayin' .....

I'm not the one who selected a well known thief to help host an auction.....

 

[Medallia]

Nope - I never said anything related to opening up a conversation about prior events. If you actually read what I said - "people should make their own conclusions as opposed to taking just one side"

People have been making sly remarks and comments, I'm providing the other side.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Nemesis]

The funny thing is that another thief ousted him when this happened, you will not find no old links to it because they were deleted for having icq messages in it. Some good people quit this game never to return because of this guy.

When you say "this guy" who are you referring to? Me, or @Tetricyde?

 

[Manticore]

I think there is a lot of confusion here. Tetricyde was the main culprit at the Pac fest (although he was a disciple of the OP) and he admitted it and later on gave his stuff away, quit, and moved to Alaska to serve in the Air Force.

If you look at what's being sold here, most of these items were not made 5 years ago.

Instead, these items are from another current collector/player.

 

[Nemesis]

I think there is a lot of confusion here. Tetricyde was the main culprit at the Pac fest (although he was a disciple of the OP) and he admitted it and later on gave his stuff away, quit, and moved to Alaska to serve in the Air Force.

If you look at what's being sold here, most of these items were not made 5 years ago.

Instead, these items are from another current collector/player.

But the main issue is that people assume that it was me that in fact "stole" certain items from current users, just because i'm selling them. Does anyone at all have proof of these accusations?

Do people also know that I have multiple characters on multiple shards and do events regularly?

All I know is that someone lost A LOT of items because someone was stealthing into a house and picked them up. Yet, does anyone have proof that it was me?

People like to point fingers, but yet have zero evidence.

If someone can provide evidence of these accusations, please show me.

 

[Blue Fly]

 

[lineman]

Birds of a feather flock together. Either way people who in my opinion who have selflessly done allot to better the rares community have pmed me in ways of how you obtained some of these items. I do take there word over yours. Did you in fact get some of these items yourself at events, I am sure you did. But I, and looks like many others just dont want to do business with the likes of you. Bottom line is reputation is everything here, and yours is running on empty.

 

[Nemesis]

Birds of a feather flock together. Either way people who in my opinion who have selflessly done allot to better the rares community have pmed me in ways of how you obtained some of these items. I do take there word over yours. Did you in fact get some of these items yourself at events, I am sure you did. But I, and looks like many others just dont want to do business with the likes of you. Bottom line is reputation is everything here, and yours is running on empty.

That's your opinion, yet there are a lot of prominent people (although they may not state it in a public forum) that have zero problems doing business with me (and have said that they would continue to do so). These conversations have not stopped people from bidding or continuing to bid.

People are entitled to do whatever they want. I've shown no disrespect or hard feelings to those that feel they want to withdraw their bids.

I could also say they same thing about this "rare community" --- a lot of people that are choosing to speak out also have skeletons in their closet. There is a small little "clique" that you may only do good, but that isn't always the case.... and you know who you are ....

I could also careless about perceived reputation for those I do not care about. Period.

Also, for those people that PMed you with ways on how I obtained some of these items.....what were these "ways" that you speak of? I'm actually very curious since you bring them up. And do they have proof that it was in fact me?

I could say that you robbed a bank or killed a man. Anyone can say anything. Doesn't mean it's true. Have to prove it.

 

[Nemesis]

Yet again - since this has turned into quite the conversation - i'm challenging to all of those who are trying to discredit me - can any of you provide ANY evidence of these claims?

 

[Longtooths]

This is not a US court and none of the laws of such apply here. There is no guilt until proven innocent in a video game. There is no having to prove accusations either. The opposing parties could just as easily demand that you prove that you did not steal these items.... In video games and such you are often guilty until your innocence is proven and your reputation often times plays a big part, as subjective as that is.

Neither side is going to be able to change the other opinion in this debate. Ney, only live by their convictions and what they feel is right or wrong.

**All that being said, this is entertaining...proceed.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Remember that movie Highlander when Connor McCloud passed on his Rares collection to his new alias time and time again.

You might pass him up for the record of alts

Thanks @Assia Penryn and @brianfreud

 

[lineman]

It seems like the mods have let us run with this, so I hope people do speak of the wrongs that you may have done. I am speaking because I was intimately involved on Pacific. I was friends with Miss D who left the game after the fest. I was wrongly accused of being the thief for the first two days because I was part of the staff and friended to the house and I had my rares museum in disarray because of a housing placement issue at a idoc the day after the robbery. I still may have been thought of as the thief if those icq messages didnt get posted of how Tet was bragging about the theft and how they blamed someone on Pac because they closed there museum. Does Oblivian ring a bell?. You were tight with Tet as Mant said. But in the end you are correct if they dont speak up its just hearsay. I have spoken my mind on this and will leave my opinion at that. Good luck with your auction its a nice lot.

 

[Promathia]

This is not a US court and none of the laws of such apply here. There is no guilt until proven innocent in a video game. There is no having to prove accusations either. The opposing parties could just as easily demand that you prove that you did not steal these items.... In video games and such you are often guilty until your innocence is proven and your reputation often times plays a big part, as subjective as that is.

Neither side is going to be able to change the other opinion in this debate. Ney, only live by their convictions and what they feel is right or wrong.

**All that being said, this is entertaining...proceed.

Thats deep man.

 

[Longtooths]

Thats deep man.

You want me dontcha?

 

[Nemesis]

This is not a US court and none of the laws of such apply here. There is no guilt until proven innocent in a video game. There is no having to prove accusations either. The opposing parties could just as easily demand that you prove that you did not steal these items.... In video games and such you are often guilty until your innocence is proven and your reputation often times plays a big part, as subjective as that is.

Neither side is going to be able to change the other opinion in this debate. Ney, only live by their convictions and what they feel is right or wrong.

**All that being said, this is entertaining...proceed.

A valid comment - but not what I asked. No one has to do anything they don't want to do.

What i'm saying is that I'm giving the open invitation to prove me wrong and provide some sort of evidence that proves these claims - yet I haven't see anything.

There are comments here that I can in fact defend....

EDIT - looks like @brianfreud removed a post -- too bad.

 

[Nemesis]

Man, and I wish I could find my logs that shows @ivester77 attempting to buy back items that I "allegedly" stole from him.

Did anyone else hear about that?

Probably not.

 

[Scott]

Man, and I wish I could find my logs that shows @ivester77 attempting to buy back items that I "allegedly" stole from him.

Did anyone else hear about that?

Probably not.

Most people are willing to buy back items that are taken from them... Happens all the time in PvP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nemesis]

Most people are willing to buy back items that are taken from them... Happens all the time in PvP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, yeah that seems like it is a fair comparison. To attempt to buy back billions upon billions worth of rares from the person that "allegedly" stole from you.

 

[Promathia]

Ah, yeah that seems like it is a fair comparison. To attempt to buy back billions upon billions worth of rares from the person that "allegedly" stole from you.

Why is wanting to buy back the stuff that was stolen from you so weird? Even before the new currency system, all you would have to do is use a broker. It doesnt sound like the conversations even got that far.

 

[Nemesis]

Why is wanting to buy back the stuff that was stolen from you so weird? Even before the new currency system, all you would have to do is use a broker. It doesnt sound like the conversations even got that far.

I guess i'll have to spell it out for a third time since it apparently isn't clear to some of you:

Everyone is talking about how they don't want to do business with me because I apparently have items that people think I stole from someone. Don't you find it strange that the person (@ivester77) who's items were stolen would try to conduct business with the alleged thief (apparently me, in this case)?

Let me spell it out even more clearly....

Would you conduct business with someone who stole from you?

Isn't that a bit....errr.....peculiar?

 

[Scott]

I guess i'll have to spell it out for a third time since it apparently isn't clear to some of you:

Everyone is talking about how they don't want to do business with me because I apparently have items that people think I stole from someone. Don't you find it strange that the person (@ivester77) who's items were stolen would try to conduct business with the alleged thief (apparently me, in this case)?

Let me spell it out even more clearly....

Would you conduct business with someone who stole from you?

Isn't that a bit....errr.....peculiar?

It's like putting out a reward when an animal goes missing. If you stole my dog... I would do business with you to get my dog back... Same principle...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nemesis]

It's like putting out a reward when an animal goes missing. If you stole my dog... I would do business with you to get my dog back... Same principle...


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I guess if you want to compare tangible items to another life....which I would certainly hope you would do more than conduct business if that was the case.....

To each their own.

 

[Promathia]

Would you conduct business with someone who stole from you?

Isn't that a bit....errr.....peculiar?

To get back the stuff they took from me? Yes

I mean, in 2016 UO how the hell else am I going to get them back?

Go on a possible endless and unsuccesful hunt for whoever owns those rares? And even then they might not be selling.

 

[Scott]

I guess if you want to compare tangible items to another life....which I would certainly hope you would do more than conduct business if that was the case.....

To each their own.

You are trying to distinguish reality from virtual. Sadly, when an investment of time, energy, and finances are involved, they become one in the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nemesis]

To get back the stuff they took from me? Yes

I mean, in 2016 UO how the hell else am I going to get them back?

Go on a possible endless and succesful hunt for whoever owns those rares? And even then they might not be selling.

Seems valid. Fair enough to me.

 

[Nemesis]

You are trying to distinguish reality from virtual. Sadly, when an investment of time, energy, and finances are involved, they become one in the same.


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Well - I feel bad for those who feel that way about a game. Yet again, that's my opinion and I'm sure plenty disagree.

 

[Nemesis]

And P.S - considering this is still a selling thread, new offers have been updated, and I will remove those who have decided to withdraw.

 

[lineman]

One last thing, are you or are you not Oblivian?

 

[Money Bags Mcgee]

Jesus, this is juicy. This thread has supplied entertainment all day. Don't stop now.. Are you Oblivion or not? Find out when we get back from commercial! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

 

[Nemesis]

A lot of entertainment and surely a lot of responses.

To answer everyone's question.......

 

[Lord Nabin]

Jesus, this is juicy. This thread has supplied entertainment all day. Don't stop now.. Are you Oblivion or not? Find out when we get back from commercial! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

Ok thanks another alt revealed

 

[Nemesis]

Ok thanks another alt revealed

Wait, @Money Bags Mcgee is Oblivion?

Holy crap. That's crazy.

 

[Lord Nabin]

A lot of entertainment and surely a lot of responses.

To answer everyone's question.......

It's time

*moves fingers in an odd motion*

"Dispiro malas"