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[Tactics] Price to Damage Ratio for 120 Tact & 120 Anat

SteedaFLA

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Hi everyone,

I currently play on Atlantic. I have read many threads on sampire builds and almost every one of the templates have 120 Tactics and 120 Anatomy. As you all can guess, the prices for these scrolls are super expensive. I was looking at 25 mil for a 120 Anatomy and 50 mil for 120 Tactics on vendor search.

I play solo and am not part of any guilds, though I have contemplated joining UWF. I am horrible at PVP, so anytime the champion spawn gets raided, I'm getting killed. Thats not including that I don't have any of these artifacts that all the PVPers like to use. I get the facts about risk vs reward, and this thread is not about that.

Regardless, I was running through some stats using the damage calculation formulas on UOGuide, specifically, on this page: Damage Calculations - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia.

I currently have 118 Str, 100 Anatomy, 100 Tactics, 100 Damage increase (including weapon). I currently dont have lumberjacking on this build. My max stats are at 255. I dont have the scroll of Valiant Commendation. My suit is completely imbued with no artifacts (studded leather). I do have Duelist's Edge. I consider the extra 7 strength I want (included in calculations below) to be 'free' based strictly on gold value, I know it comes at a different cost albeit intelligence or dexterity.

I know I can free up imbuing slots on weapons and armor with certain artifacts or legendaries I get in loot.

I created a spreadsheet with these forumlas and started plugging some numbers in. Right now, my damage increase is currently at 252.9%.

Working with the spreadsheet, these are the damage calculations I came up with:

110 Anat, 110 Tactics, 125 Str: 277.5% - Cost, about 2 mil gold. (Anatomy 1 mil, Tactics 1 mil)
115 Anat, 115 Tactics, 125 Str: 283.125% - Cost, about 7 mil gold. (Anatomy 2 mil, Tactics 5 mil)
120 Anat, 120 Tactics, 125 Str: 288.75% - Cost, about 75 mil gold. (Anatomy 25 mil, Tactics 50 mil)

Is it really worth it to scroll up to 120 in both Anatomy and Tactics based upon purchasing the scrolls? There's diminishing returns based upon gold value and damage increase. For that extra 5%, how much does it matter?

For instance, assuming my str is at 125, I can do 195 damage with a bladed staff using AI at 110 Anatomy and 110 tactics. At 120 Anatomy and 120 Tactics, I will do 201 damage, while leeching an extra couple of life with each successful swing. 20% of 6 is only 1.2 per swing, outside of life leech, which is at 56% on my current weapon and SSI of 30%.

So, what are your thoughts on 110 vs 115 vs 120 Anatomy and Tactics. Is it worth purchasing?

Thanks for reading.
 
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klapios

Adventurer
Masteries effectiveness is based on real tactics skill, so that's something you need to consider. I rarely ever use armor ignore any more because onslaught + double strike is so much more effective for a lot of the things I kill.

120 Tactics is very very much worth it, 120 anatomy is debatable.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Your breakdown is completely redundant as "Worth it" is subjective to people's wealth, experience, and the way they play.

For some people buying or hunting for these things is nothing. To you it clearly is. What (useful) conclusion are you hoping to draw from whether someone else deems it worth it?

The cost is an irrelevant factor as far as I'm concerned. You build to what best you can. It's not vital to 120 anything but if you can and you're building for max damage, or playing something that relies heavily on it (like something that leeches to heal) then yes it's worth it.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Start with gm tact, gm anatomy and see how it goes ?
I have samps scrolled to 120, and i also have not so scrolled samps.
I don't see much difference tbh. It's all about how you do the spawn, and what weapons you use, hit area 70% is a real time saver.
 

Innoxicated

Journeyman
Really you wont have much trouble staying alive thru weapon damage with 110 tactics, but people who want to solo peerless and other top-tier content need every few hp they can leech back.

A big part of the value attached to 120's is veteran players' desire to min/max, and many are willing to pay (a LOT) just for that. This applies to samps, pvp players (a little more understandably, needing every edge they can get), and also pets. What's the difference in 115 tactics and 120 tactics on your favorite pet? Almost negligable, but some consider a pet with 110's/115's nearly worthless.

I'll pay close to 50m for feudal gloves, but paying 50m for 120 tactics is a more difficult pill to swallow. I can freely swap the gloves out among my characters, without having to pay 50m for each character I want to put them on.

The upside to everyone wanting to see 120 in their skill gump is that 110's and 115's are priced much more practically.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I think even aside from min/maxing its pretty much always a better option to change an existing character than delete and remake. There's quests or tokens to change just about everything, race/gender/name, but re-scrolling would be costly.
 

Zalan

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The only skill a Warrior needs at 120 is a weapon skill. Everything else is optional in my opinion. Just go with the 110 for now. Make the 120s a future goal to work towards. Theres a great thread in this forum on how to make money.

Start of killing Narvey and get a few tangles and sell them. You can earn the wetstones in shame. It's a snore fest but theres blackthorns dungeon. Easiest thing would be bags of sending and translocation powder.
 

Innoxicated

Journeyman
Very true: recrolling is prohibitively expensive, and functionally one of the only restrictions in the game involving building new characters or even just cross-classing old ones. A character that has eaten a 120 taming scroll will probably always be a tamer, even if the player decides to switch from a bard to an archer. A character that has eaten a 120 mage would be unlikely to ever be converted into a sampire.

In a game where players can create whatever combination of skills they can imagine, to me it's unfortunate that in the end your mage will stay a mage and your warrior will stay a warrior. Since you probably had a theme in mind when you started, it works out well enough. I'm just griping because class restrictions are definitely not why I play UO.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Ah most of mine, especially former pvpers and reds, have changed fully. Had one character go from sampire to tamer archer pvper, to gargoyle mystic mage, to whammy thrower.

My former red has been pretty much all templates at some point.
 

Innoxicated

Journeyman
I would expect nothing less from you, Lord GOD, given the work I've seen you post creating new templates and finding new uses for old skills. I would probably sub up a few more accounts before re-rolling my entire character select screen.

Lol I always find myself trying to work the most expensive-to-scroll skills into my next template, to varying degrees of success.
 
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Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I do this thing now and then when I'm playing, where I look at my roster and make sure their all serving different purposes, and if they're similar templates it'll be that one is for PvP the other for PvM.

So usually I have mule, bard, tamer, caster, melee warrior, ranged warrior, some type of stealther, and a PvPer. Though any of them can be PvP or PvM.
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Very true: recrolling is prohibitively expensive, and functionally one of the only restrictions in the game involving building new characters or even just cross-classing old ones. A character that has eaten a 120 taming scroll will probably always be a tamer, even if the player decides to switch from a bard to an archer. A character that has eaten a 120 mage would be unlikely to ever be converted into a sampire.

In a game where players can create whatever combination of skills they can imagine, to me it's unfortunate that in the end your mage will stay a mage and your warrior will stay a warrior. Since you probably had a theme in mind when you started, it works out well enough. I'm just griping because class restrictions are definitely not why I play UO.
Let's not forget ALSO having to re-adjust STATS, when changing skills on a Template....

Intelligence, Stamina and Strength needs on a Template are not the same and can vary MUCH depending on what the main Skills on that Template will be....

And having to readjust Stats is also a pain.... and there are no Soulstones for Stats....
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I do this thing now and then when I'm playing, where I look at my roster and make sure their all serving different purposes, and if they're similar templates it'll be that one is for PvP the other for PvM.

So usually I have mule, bard, tamer, caster, melee warrior, ranged warrior, some type of stealther, and a PvPer. Though any of them can be PvP or PvM.
"So usually I have mule, bard, tamer, caster, melee warrior, ranged warrior, some type of stealther, and a PvPer."

Wouldn't that make 8 characters ?

Mule
Bard
Tamer
Caster
Melee Warrior
Ranged Warrior
Stealther
PvPer

Since the max is 7, perhaps a couple of these are merged into 1 Template ?
 

Skelf

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Swapping stats around is the least of the problems. It's fast, easy and costs nothing if you have access to a trio of pickpocket and melee dummies and know which skills to raise and lower. You can move 50+ stat points around in 30 minutes. It's a non issue tbh.
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Swapping stats around is the least of the problems. It's fast, easy and costs nothing if you have access to a trio of pickpocket and melee dummies and know which skills to raise and lower. You can move 50+ stat points around in 30 minutes. It's a non issue tbh.
well it kinda is on Siege Perilous because our shard has a limit of stat gains per day and will only let you get a stat gain every 15 minutes. But I agree, on regular shards this really isn't an issue.
 
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