Possible addition to Treasure map loot?

[Petra Fyde]

Since I removed this debate from an inappropriate thread I will take it upon myself to rectify the situation.

Some players would like to politely request that the developers consider adding the lower level of ML artifact crafting ingredients to the loot table of chests as an either/or option with imbuing ingredients.

Suggested restrictions are:
level 6 maps only and/or Malas facet only.
This is envisioned as something along the lines of:
Level 6 chests spawning in Malas have a chance that these ingredients will spawn instead of the imbuing ingredient.

An alternative suggestion would be that such items may be a rare drop on the level 6 guardians, in the same way as 'playing cards' have been observed to be spawning on test center.

 

[popps]

Actually, a recent Poll in the Forum pertaining the subject, the Craftman Forum, the findings were largely in favour :

A whopping 86.36% came in favour of adding them !!

That is over 6 in 7 crafters !!!!!!!!!!

- 59.09% Yes, both the common and rare items
- 18.18% Yes, but only the ones common to all peerless (including taint)
- 9.09% Yes, but only the rarer items (boss items, taint, rare recipes, etc.)

Total makes it an overwhelming support of 86.36% in favour !!!

Please note that almost 60%, by far the largest representation from crafters, want any and ALL ML ingredients to be added.

It shows clearly that time is ready for any and all ML ingredients to appear in Treasure Chests. There is the need, the demand and the reasons for such an addition.

May the developers please listen to crafters. Thanks.

 

[R Traveler]

ToT from Tokuno guardians using same rules (more you kill, better chance)

 

[Nyses]

I did not see the poll in the Crafters forum, but I would vote NO. Who actually needs any of it, but Taint? I and many crafters I know have all the others comming out our ears.

Everything you can craft with the ML ingreedients, can LAST FOREVER, there is NEVER a need to make a new one. The only thing I see people crafting for, is Scrappers with Mods.

imho, the devs need to look at making the stuff in treasure chests usable, as in consumable (meaning used up, gone and need to get more). If they do not do that, everyone will swarm t-hunting for a month or two and forget it, like every other system/encounter in the game. If there is not an ongoing need, once you stockpile, you are done.

Yes I know there is t-hunting specific stuff, but beyond the pardons, what is really all that consumable? the Skelly Keys, nice, but no biggie as I can use regular picks, the "brittle" arties? again ok, but the Tally has far too many other/better choices and the sash, that may be pretty good actually. Vines, may tickle some, but what about a year from now, when peeps cannot even sell em on vendors for 5k? The rest of the chest was pretty much junk that can easily be gotten elsewhere.

Sorry for the rant, I have been reading too much on this topic as of late.

 

[popps]

ToT from Tokuno guardians using same rules (more you kill, better chance)

On a roleplaying point of view, does it make more sense, logically, to see the ML ingredients, included the peerless specific ones, added to the Treasure Chests or, as loot from the Guardians ?

The reason why I am saying this, is that while I can see all reasons and logic and no roleplaying problems that all ML ingredients coould be found in Treasure Chests (Blight, Corruption, Muculent, Putrefaction, Scourge, Taint, Captured Essence, Diseased Bark, Dread Horn Mane, Eye of the Travesty, Grizzled Bones, Lard of Paroxysmus) on the basis and reasoning that the original owner of the treasure cache put them there after hunting for them to preserve it from being raided and taken away but then something unfortunately happened to get them lost (the original owner died, lost the Map to the treasure or it was stolen from the original owner).

After time, and the Map to the treasure cache has been recovered by someone else, all of the precious belongings stored over time and much hunting from the original owner, are found later by whomever digs the chest up. Logical and in line with a roleplaying reasoning.

Can this be said alike for the Guardians of the treasure ?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Let's keep the histrionics to a minimum. 13 out of 23 votes hardly warrants bold letters and red text. You would do better to link to the poll to try to gain more votes.

 

[Nyses]

Popps, if we allowed that logic, we could have ANYTHING in the game in a treasure chest, how about an Orny, how about server birth rares? After all if the "original" owner put it there, it could be ANYTHING.

 

[popps]

I did not see the poll in the Crafters forum, but I would vote NO. Who actually needs any of it, but Taint? I and many crafters I know have all the others comming out our ears.

Are you a crafter if I may ask ? Do you browse the craftman Forum frequently ?

This is an issue of concern to dedicated crafters who play the game for crafting and are interested in the well being of crafting, not for fighters who stocked away a large cache of ML ingredients and keep it in secures rather than put them on vendors at reduced prices to keep their price artificially high so that ML ingredients cost more than the final ML craftables that can be made from them.

I am tired of players always trying to think of any change to Ultima Online as to how much gold they can make or loose from the change.

The goal of the game, at least as I see it, is play and enjoy it, not become the richest in the realm.....

This is the problem with putting too much emphasys on item based and modifiers, it makes people always go after the gold to be able to afford more powerfull items and beat the competition in fights.

Everything you can craft with the ML ingreedients, can LAST FOREVER, there is NEVER a need to make a new one. The only thing I see people crafting for, is Scrappers with Mods.

And ain't it the same for imbued items which are way, but really way more handy, versatile and powerfull ?

When the ingredients to imbue items are widely and readily available, what prevents players from imbuing the same one items that best fit their template (weapons and gear), for free (they get the ingredients themselves from the many sources available) one after the other after the other after the other ?

Imbued items are forever, just like ML craftables. One goes and another is imbued right after......

The difference being, that imbued items can be custom made at will, can have the modifiers set at will while with ML craftables one has to go with what comes which could not be the best assortment that fits nor the best intensities.

Imbued items are by FAR superior as compared to ML craftables and, just like them, last forever.....

 

[popps]

Let's keep the histrionics to a minimum. 13 out of 23 votes hardly warrants bold letters and red text. You would do better to link to the poll to try to gain more votes.

Petra, the Craftman Forum is mostly browsed by crafters and, up to when the Poll was known within that closed Forum, my best guess is that mostly dedicated crafters voted in it.

If the issue is of concern to crafters and it affects THEIR profession then I do not think it as proper that fighters who might have a different interest, could alter its findings...

There is clearly more fighters than dedicated crafters out there, this is understandable.

Still, if an issue affects so much crafters' life and game play I think it should be crafters voting on it, NOT fighters. Fighters have much to do in the game, crafters' spaces are way, but much way more limited in today's Ultima Online, unfortunately.

This is why I would hope that Basara closed the poll before the results are changed by players who do not browse the Craftsman Forum frequently nor are interested in crafting as a dedicated crafter but play the game from the point of view and perspective of a fighter.

To me those data gathered up to now, within the limited environment of the Craftsman Forum and under the eyes of those craftsmen who browse the Forum because it is crafting that they are interested in more then else, genuinely show what crafters want.

They, are the ones who got to vote on the issue for the days it was on and they are the ones who actively browse the Craftsman Forum because they are craftsmen in their heart.

That a wave of fighters may now try to turn it upside down for interests that divert from the crafters', that I am not interested in, and I think the game would loose by not listening to craftmen at heart but to fighters'.

 

[popps]

Popps, if we allowed that logic, we could have ANYTHING in the game in a treasure chest, how about an Orny, how about server birth rares? After all if the "original" owner put it there, it could be ANYTHING.

And infact, it would make it for a MUCH more interesting treasure hunting if anything had a chance, albeit a miniscule one depending on the importance and value of the item, to spawn in a Treasure Chest.....

Just imagine, if 1 in 500 Treasure Maps could indeed spawn an ornament of the magician.

Would be a nice finding and yet, rare enough not to alter much.

 

[Nyses]

I don't run vendors or otherwise sell my ingreedients, to get "rich". I have a few hundred mill but it is mostly from spawns and Powerscrolls, some arties. This game was never about "getting rich" what are you going to do with it, it's a game.

And if you finally break an imbued item and then have to craft another, do you not use more ingreedients? Why are you still crafting anything that takes ML ingreedients, other than a Scrappers? You could easily buy it off a vendor, almost everyone I know has TONs of the ingreedients around or the finished products.

Even if you got your ML ingreedients in the chest, what would you do with them? Craft quivers that no one would buy, or weapons no one uses, cause they all imbue thier weapons? Just asking? and I am serious.

 

[Nyses]

And infact, it would make it for a MUCH more interesting treasure hunting if anything had a chance, albeit a miniscule one depending on the importance and value of the item, to spawn in a Treasure Chest.....

Just imagine, if 1 in 500 Treasure Maps could indeed spawn an ornament of the magician.

Would be a nice finding and yet, rare enough not to alter much.

1 in 500, I would acually be on board with that one, as I consider that super rare, (not to mention Doom is a mind numbing hamster wheel) and you actually have to take the time to do the chest.

 

[Petra Fyde]

popps, I have crafters, 4 of them, 2 on Europa and 2 on Siege. However I actually have no problem with the status quo.
IF I want to make one of these items for my other characters, I pay for the ingredients, accepting the cost as the penalty for not being a good enough player to get my own.
If someone else wants me to make them, I ask them to supply the special ingredients. A cooperative effort to meet their needs. Strangely enough, I believe that's the way it's supposed to work.
I will support your right to request this idea be considered. I will not support any attempt to browbeat the devs into acceding to a demand for the idea.

 

[popps]

Even if you got your ML ingreedients in the chest, what would you do with them? Craft quivers that no one would buy, or weapons no one uses, cause they all imbue thier weapons? Just asking? and I am serious.

How about stocking vendors with ML craftables at reasonable prices which could be of interest to new or returning players ?

Are you perhaps saying that as the game is now, ML ingredients and craftables could be taken out of the game outright because they are of no interest whatsoever to noone and of use to noone ?

So, ML craftables are, nowadays, a total or most total failure and yet another wasted feature of the game ?

I do not think so, but in order to make crafters have access to them they need an alternate source for them JUST LIKE this is being given to the much more powerfull imbuing ingredients.

Those who do not like ML ingredients or have no need for them whenever they will find them in Treasure Chests, can well discard them or donate them to others laying them around at Luna bank's floor.

How much loot do we leave on corpses that we are not interested in with then have someone come after us and take some if not all of what we discarded ?

That some players do not care to see more ML ingredients does not mean that there is players out there who, instead, want to see an alternate source for them.

Make ML ingredients come also from Treasure Chests and then players will either take them or discard them as they choose.

Or is this an issue about "not devaluing" existing ML ingredients large caches that some players have in their banks and secures ?

Because if this is yet another case of catering to one's own garden and wanting items needed for crafting to be scarce to keep their value as high, even when the ML craftables from them are worth less than the ingredients they are made out from, well, this is an issue I am not interested about.

I am interested about the bettering of the game for crafters, not about avoiding changes so that players might artificially maintain as high the value of ingredients much needed in crafting to reach the absurd that the components cost more than the final products.....

 

[Nyses]

How about stocking vendors with ML craftables at reasonable prices which could be of interest to new or returning players ?

Are you perhaps saying that as the game is now, ML ingredients and craftables could be taken out of the game outright because they are of no interest whatsoever to noone and of use to noone ?

So, ML craftables are, nowadays, a total or most total failure and yet another wasted feature of the game ?

I do not think so, but in order to make crafters have access to them they need an alternate source for them JUST LIKE this is being given to the much more powerfull imbuing ingredients.

Those who do not like ML ingredients or have no need for them whenever they will find them in Treasure Chests, can well discard them or donate them to others laying them around at Luna bank's floor.

How much loot do we leave on corpses that we are not interested in with then have someone come after us and take some if not all of what we discarded ?

That some players do not care to see more ML ingredients does not mean that there is players out there who, instead, want to see an alternate source for them.

Make ML ingredients come also from Treasure Chests and then players will either take them or discard them as they choose.

Or is this an issue about "not devaluing" existing ML ingredients large caches that some players have in their banks and secures ?

Because if this is yet another case of catering to one's own garden and wanting items needed for crafting to be scarce to keep their value as high, even when the ML craftables from them are worth less than the ingredients they are made out from, well, this is an issue I am not interested about.

I am interested about the bettering of the game for crafters, not about avoiding changes so that players might artificially maintain as high the value of ingredients much needed in crafting to reach the absurd that the components cost more than the final products.....

Let me put this another way, How many ML artifacts can actualy be crafted before EVERY char on EVERY account has one, in the entire game? I do not know the answer either, but it is a finite number. Once everyone has one, there is no more market. It has nothing to do with hoarding for value. Yes there are returning players, but they can buy theres from folks who do IDOCs, as the items NEVER wear out.

The entire point of my post has nothing to do with money, selling them, or "cornering the market". I am concerned about the longevity and sustainabilty of UO and it's systems. Do you see anyone in Doom any more? Does anyone hunt in the dungeons (other than SA, as it is new) any more? And as you know Crafting is dead, but for BOD running for a few select rewards (imbuing was a bit of a boost).

 

[popps]

popps, I have crafters, 4 of them, 2 on Europa and 2 on Siege. However I actually have no problem with the status quo.

It is not much important how many crafters one may have but more whether one plays Ultima Online FOR crafting or for fighting.

Do you find yourself spending more time on fighting or crafting ?

If you spend more time on fighting then, regardless how many crafters you may have, I would not see you, in my opinion, as a crafter at heart but simply a fighter who has crafters for one's own personal use and self sufficiency.

IF I want to make one of these items for my other characters, I pay for the ingredients, accepting the cost as the penalty for not being a good enough player to get my own.

Why would this logic have to work for ML craftables a much LESSER item than imbued items but NOT for imbued items which are way more powerfull, versatile and flexible ?

Because with the addition to Treasure chests, imbuing ingredients have now so many sources that hardly anyone will be able to complain not being able to get them...

Yet, this is not to be for ML ingredients.

WHY ???

ML ingredients make it for much lesser items than imbuing ingredients and yet, they are dictated to be way, but way more a pain to get than imbuing ingredients.

This makes no sense whatever and is inexplicable to me.

I will support your right to request this idea be considered. I will not support any attempt to browbeat the devs into acceding to a demand for the idea.

Noone demands anything. We are merely providing logical argomentations in support of this need trying to demonstrate why ML ingredients need to be added way more than imbuing ingredients.

Besides, I think that Basara as a THB shard Guildmaster and a Moderator of the Stratics' Craftsman forum, an advocate for both T-Hunters and Crafters, has quite an experience and interest about crafting and thus, since he supports the addition, this shows to me how the need is a real one.

 

[Apetul]

I prefer no ML ingredients on treasure chests.

ML resources are easily obtainable on ML bosses. Thats perfect.

 

[popps]

Let me put this another way, How many ML artifacts can actualy be crafted before EVERY char on EVERY account has one, in the entire game? I do not know the answer either, but it is a finite number. Once everyone has one, there is no more market. It has nothing to do with hoarding for value. Yes there are returning players, but they can buy theres from folks who do IDOCs, as the items NEVER wear out.

Being a crafter at heart, I am an advocate, and always have been, for "wear and tear" in any and all items in the game.

The way I see it, items should be way more easily and readily obtainable so that all players could sport them, thus bringing all competing players on an equal footing and ensure for a balanced fight and more healthy and challenging PvP with an open outcome at all times and they should break frequently due to wear and tear.

I also would like to see account be either fighter specific OR crafter specific but not both. I totally do not see with favour crafter characters being used as "mules" to merely cater one's own fighter and be self sufficient for any and all one's own fighter's needs. This, if one really want to have crafting as a dedicated profession and role play in the game.

This said, with the recent brittle addition and more and more items not "pofable", I seem to understand that the Developers are moving in that direction.

Make items have a limited life.

To this purpose, it makes all sense to add now, that they are woking on revamping Treasure chests, also the ML ingredients (when a feature of the game is addressed it is usually years before it is worked on again, unless there are major problems with it...) so that then, in the future, they can work on introducing wear and tear also for existing items.

Besides, imbued items are, IMHO, wrongly perceived as items with a limited life.

Why ?

First because they last a rather long life anyways with 255 uses which are repairable albeit no longer "pofable".

Second, because even when after months and months of use an item breaks, the same one item can be made again with imbuing thanking to the readily available ingredients from a variety of handy sources, now Treasure Chests included.

This, effectively, make imbued items be "just like" ever lasting items. I cannot see much of a difference here.

One breaks (after many many months of usage), just grab the ingredients and make another and keep going for more many months of usage........

The entire point of my post has nothing to do with money, selling them, or "cornering the market". I am concerned about the longevity and sustainabilty of UO and it's systems. Do you see anyone in Doom any more? Does anyone hunt in the dungeons (other than SA, as it is new) any more? And as you know Crafting is dead, but for BOD running for a few select rewards (imbuing was a bit of a boost).

This is because of the limited player base and because players flock in waves to the new items and new spawns (Stygian Abyss, the Events and so forth).

And that, proves my point.

Given the harshness as compared to imbuing ingredients to obtain ML ingredients, the fact that less and less players find interest anymore in hunting Peerless make it almost impossible for crafters to get the ML ingredients they may need. Sure, they can buy them off of vendors but their prices are so absurdedly high that the ingredients cost outdoes the final crafts worth.

Sure, one can always bug friends to help once or twice, but if friends prefer to hunt for Slasher or for the Tangle or for the bane Event new items and their time at hand is limited, how much can a crafter bug them ???

I have no doubt whatsoever that ML ingredients really, but really need to be added as loot to Treasure Chests and they need it, way more than imbuing ingredients ever did.

That's how I see it.

 

[popps]

I prefer no ML ingredients on treasure chests.

ML resources are easily obtainable on ML bosses. Thats perfect.

"Easily" ??

Easily for who ? Perhaps for those who have Sampires and solo them ?

And what matters more, as easily as imbuing ingredients are readily available ?

Imbuing ingredients which make for way more powerfull items than ML ingredients can ?

 

[Fink]

Everything you can craft with the ML ingreedients, can LAST FOREVER, there is NEVER a need to make a new one. The only thing I see people crafting for, is Scrappers with Mods.

That's actually a very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. If having stuff that I can't use or sell clogging up the chest means fewer items of interest, then I'd rather not have the ingredients included. Is there any suggestion these would be in addition to or instead of useful items? It seems rather bold to ask for extra stuff, and to replace useful stuff would be undesirable.

popps, I have crafters, 4 of them, 2 on Europa and 2 on Siege. However I actually have no problem with the status quo.
IF I want to make one of these items for my other characters, I pay for the ingredients, accepting the cost as the penalty for not being a good enough player to get my own.
If someone else wants me to make them, I ask them to supply the special ingredients. A cooperative effort to meet their needs. Strangely enough, I believe that's the way it's supposed to work.
I will support your right to request this idea be considered. I will not support any attempt to browbeat the devs into acceding to a demand for the idea.

This is what I was trying to say in the other thread but unfortunately the message was poorly received. As often as our viewpoints converge, you always find a far more succinct way to express it.

 

[R Traveler]

I'd like to see one random trashed item inside every t-chest, like cavern of discarded works.

 

[Beastmaster]

My original point of view was that the lesser ML ingredients be added to treasure chests and the ones that were specific to a certain boss not be.

However, I've been persuaded by the arguments made by Popps and others that a true treasure chest would actually hold anything that was of value to the person(s) that hid it. That being said, there still has to be thought given to game balance.

With that in mind, I'd say add the lesser ingredients starting with level 2 chests but only allow 1-2 pieces per level of the chest and add the boss specific ingredients only to level 6. I am not saying that these should be in every chest. I'm saying they should be on a 'possible' loot table like the pardons are done.

 

[Basara]

Petra: 18/23 (was 21, after a couple of these other malcontents have voted, since you brought up the poll's existance) is not 13/23. Prior to this thread, the crafters and T-Hunters (whose forum had a link to the poll) were in favor of having some form of ML ingredients in the chest, 6/1. It's still about 4/1 with the ringer vote included.

I cannot fathom HOW some you think these items are easy to get. Even the "any greater dragon can solo a Dreadhorn" excuse is just that - because my fully trained one can't, and I've seen parties of 3-4 tamers with fully trained dragons have to leave their corpses behind in a Melisande, despite all going in with Knight of sacrifice unused, but used up on departure as ghosts. Not everyone has your magical dominance of peerless, nor the abilty to stay alive when the game pulls something stupid (like a subserver freezing during a peerless, which seems to happen about every other peerless I've done in the last year, with a party, and everyone in the party, scattered over 3-5 states, freezing).

Again, i report the facts, and professional (Crafter & T-hunter) opinion.

1. This has been repeated requested by Treasure Hunters and Crafters ever since ML was released, as part of any revision of Treasure maps. I have heard this repeatedly on those forums, and also at Town Hall meetings.

2. Anyone who states an opinion that Mondains Legacy ingredients are easier to get than Imbuing ones is either delusional or deliberately deceitful. THERE IS NO THIRD OPTION. Even if you have the perfect Solo Peerless template, that's still 20-60 minutes PER TRIP for you (I know because I've been with parties having to wait out soloists), when someone can get 10 semi-rare Imbuing ingredients without ever seeing a peerless, renowned or champ, in less time. In fact, with patience, you can get the imbuing ingredients without ever entering the Abyss, thanks to Axem and Percolem.

3. In fact, the same could be said for just getting the desirable ML ingredients in general. Just because YOU have a gimplate that can solo peerless does not mean that everyone has the 100-million gold suit and a similar expenditure on PS you do, OR the desire to play such an unbalanced to the brink of exploit template. You, apparently, have never seen a guildmate in a treasure split opt for 4 Taint to complete the armor suit they'd wanted for almost 3 years, instead of the CRIMSON CINCTURE in the same pile, like I have.

4. A surplus of the junk ML ingredients is no different than the surplus of junk Imbuing ingredients those of us hunting in SA collected before we realized we'd never imbue the property they go to. Nor does a surplus of these have any bearing on the fact that there is an obscene shortage of Taint. If there is such a glut of taint, how about you hoarders selling some of it? I didn't think so, because you don't have what you claim "everyone" has.

5. Perhaps this wouldn't be as much an issue if ML ingredients had been used in Imbuing, or if Taint & boss items were available via SA quests like the mining gems. I'd say that many of the critics of this request were among those that speculated, based on early beta reports, that the ML ingredients would play a major part in Imbuing, and hoarded all they could find for sale, and spent weeks doing Peerless over and over. Or, do people forget all the crying and screaming when this turned out not to be the case, and that the ML ingredients had only been placeholders for the current Imbuing ingredients for testing?

6. There is also the fact that FAILURE CONSUMES SOME of the TEN ingredients required by the ML recipes in question. NONE of the high-end imbues consume more than MR/EE/RF & gems on failure - you don't lose the special ingredient on imbuing.

7. Item breakage has long been a Straw Man used by those wishing to control the supply of rare items (be they ingredients, artifacts, ToT, etc.) for their own profit.
The simple fact is that this is NOT 2000 anymore, and all the wishing in the world won't turn back the clock on the existing shards. POF exists (including use before Imbuing), and as long as you aren't playing one of those broken templates designed to leech/regen your way through mass combat, Imbued items taken up to 255 before imbuing will last a year or two. For that matter, pray tell me just what shards do spellbooks (like a scrappers) break on?
This same crap came up the last time BOD rewards were changed, and those camping the Gauntlet wanted POF removed, for the same reasons. The only items that break these days are uninsured things destroyed by Verite and valorite elementals, and stuff being enhanced. If you're going to give a bogus argument, can't you at least come up with a NEW one?

8. Of course, there's also the personal part of this. No, not me, but those that oppose the idea solely because popps posted it first (and whatever popps is for , some people are automatically against). I can't help but think that at least half the drama of the last week comes from me not getting my post in first... I've not seen any of this in this thread, YET, but the other threads on the subject were rife with attacks on popps with no substantive argument against what he (and I, independently) proposed. Let's keep it on subject, please.

9. To reiterate: You can get any of the Imbuing ingredients without ever fighting a boss. The ML ingredients require staying for the entire fight, then being OBSCENELY lucky to get taint, or if fighting in the group, being the one person to get the lard/mane/etc. Some of you seem to think this is appropriate, yet I don't see ML items dominating ANYTHING, except maybe PvP potion use (and you get EC Ring ingredients from mining or doing SA quests, NOT peerless, and (GASP!) it's a permanent item unless imbued). So, where IS this hostility toward a FEW, LIMITED, items come from, that are in most ways inferior anything imbued, or even runic crafted?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Actually, a recent Poll in the Forum pertaining the subject, the Craftman Forum, the findings were largely in favour :

A whopping 86.36% came in favour of adding them !!

That is over 6 in 7 crafters !!!!!!!!!!

No offense, but even if 7 in 7 crafters wanted them added, that wouldn't necessarily make it a good idea.

ML artifacts are still permanent artifacts, and as such, should be rarer to craft than other items. Yes, the ingredients require the killing of peerless bosses and praying for a drop, but if anything is tweaked, it really should be the drop-rate from the peerless, not putting them in elsewhere, IMO.

I'm all for updating the treasure in the treasure chests, but sometimes you have to make decisions that don't diminish another in-game system when you do so. Imbuing items are temporary (albeit fairly long-lived), and there's definitely a farm to craft ratio that's a bit high. ML artifacts, while having a similarly high farm to craft ratio are permanent.

 

[Saris]

I have 3 crafters however, the price of some peerless regs may be higher than a few years ago, folks in UO you don't have to just be a crafter.

If we put peerless regs into a t map box, then the few folks that still farm peerless may stop, then the price of CCs, paraxypets, mel hairdyes, ect will rise.


I could say it may not effect this much if shared ingredients only were added never the boss specific one.

also an orny from a box just say NO! very few reasons to do doom anymore as is.

my 2 cents

 

[Saris]

a bit OT but still in the ballpark, what I think would be nice is if thier was a % chance when doing a lv6 of spawning a sepcial mob that could five up a rare sometimes though, or the since you must defeat him for the tbox it could spawn the item. This Mob should be about 30-40% harder than other lv 6 mobs though.

 

[Warpig Inc]

No the whole missed point here is that the scrappers with its random bonus is the attraction. If all the other recipe items had a random mod then they would still be desired. Before the super slayer nerf what dumb ass thought putting super slayer made to order on weapons crafted be good. Besides recipes every arty drop or turn in reward should have a random effect. And blocking arties from Imbuing was lame.

If those weapons had random slayer they still be crafters making them.
Song Woven Mantel had a random 100-150 luck and 8-15LRC.
Spell woven britches had a random LRC amount and skill (to include Crafter/Gather skills, what would be price check on +10mining?).
The LRC and SDI on the Pedant of the Magi random
Even if the Singing Axe had random bard skills from 5-15.

 

[Serafi]

I also would like to see ML ingredients in the treasure chests, but only the crafter specific ones. The ingredients as taint, corruption, muculent etc.

Not the hairdyes or suit items etc. Those should remain peerless only drops.

 

[Shelleybean]

I think peerless reagents would make a nice addition to treasure chests. I would think anything valuable in the game could make it's way into buried treasure.

 

[Uthar Pendragon]

Ok, Hows this for an idea to toss out there (I know it could not be implemented right now as development time would be needed) But what if they took the idea that was posted by someone and give out map fragments that could be combined to give basically a lvl 7 map (lvl 6 map spawn can be used and maybe even doubled for the initial spawn). It would take several fragments to combine before you actually get the completed map. I was thinking 20-30.
The loot for these could be the peerless regs and loot with a possibility of artifacts and or replicas. It would give the dev's a better control on the items flowing into the game as they could increase the rarity of map fragments or the number needed to combine together without affecting drops on the regular chests.

It is just a basic idea and would need to be sorted a bit better but I think it would solve alot of issues here and ad a bit more depth to t hunting.

 

[Twooflower]

I have several crafters on 3 different shards - I crafted several ML arties in the past, sold some and earned some - but not much - money by selling them .....


But what I think is far more important: I always enjoyed doing the different peerless bosses, and I noticed that they are not hunted much anymore. Add the peerless reagents to Treasure maps - and there is even less reason to do peerless bosses anymore.
So I am heavily AGAINST them being added .... and no - I did not vote before.
If you need the stuff - get a couple of people in a nice group together and hunt for the bosses, they are not so difficult to do and can be a lot of fun.

But if the devs actually seriously consider to add peerless regs to treasure hunter chests (following the argument that the previous owner might have burried some of his more valuable stuff in them) - then please, .... /irony on ....... be as consequent and also add Doom artifact on Malas, power scrolls and stat Scrolls in Felucca and all the new rare artifacts that spawn down in the Abyss to Ter Mur treasure chests - so people have only to do treasure chests and nothing else to get any possible item that is available in game ..... /irony off.

 

[wanderer1origin]

since it is mostly scrappers driving this, why not a small chance for a random scrappers to drop in level 6 chests!

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I know and I know I know I am on ignor

But you cant always get what you want. That is...

Mechanting and Trading are viable are real parts of the game.

Instead of wanting this and that and this and that.

Think about finding players that have TONS of ML stuff like me and propose trades and swaps.

WHY?
1) you will save hours of game play.
2) trade things that you've collected and dont want for other stuff.
3) realize that 9 hours of treasure hunting for 7 taint and 12 scourge isn't the best way to get these resources.
4) take other items from the chest like the new crack graphics, sell it, go by the resources.

I just dont get it? Nothing is rare in UO. Everything can be obtained. I think players don't like spending gold or trading for the most part.

They just want it all.
In sum use your other stuff to trade for the other stuff you want. It is really that easy... ESPECIALLY with global chat.

 

[Gheed]

Everything you can craft with the ML ingreedients, can LAST FOREVER, there is NEVER a need to make a new one. The only thing I see people crafting for, is Scrappers with Mods.

That's actually a very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. If having stuff that I can't use or sell clogging up the chest means fewer items of interest, then I'd rather not have the ingredients included. Is there any suggestion these would be in addition to or instead of useful items? It seems rather bold to ask for extra stuff, and to replace useful stuff would be undesirable.

This is true to a point. Many ML items are imbuable thus their lifetime could be finite. Overseer Sundered blade is A good example of this You can add any slayer or super slayer to it if you are willing to burn the frags. So the weapon is very nice by itself.... but add a slayer property to it and it is very powerful. But at such a fast swing speed on the item... you will burn through them pretty fast.

I am all for anything and everything having a chance to pop in a t-chest. All arties, deco and crafting mats... but not a guarantee that they will be in the chest...

T-hunting is digging loot that belonged to someone else. To me there shouldn't be anything in a chest specific to t-hunting. I have always thought of treasure chests as mini IDOC's.... you just shouldn't have any idea of what is going to be in them. We shouldn't farm treasure for pardon scrolls or special artifacts. We should dig up treasure from a (weighted) pool of everything available in the game. There is such a vast array of useful resources and items... even more non useful. Plenty of loot to make t-hunting exciting with every new map. Also with the loot pool broad enough you know you will probably get something nice. But if you are after a specific resource or item, you would have much better luck going to the source than trying to farm chests.

 

[Tanivar]

Petra: 18/23 (was 21, after a couple of these other malcontents have voted, since you brought up the poll's existance) is not 13/23. Prior to this thread, the crafters and T-Hunters (whose forum had a link to the poll) were in favor of having some form of ML ingredients in the chest, 6/1. It's still about 4/1 with the ringer vote included.

I cannot fathom HOW some you think these items are easy to get. Even the "any greater dragon can solo a Dreadhorn" excuse is just that - because my fully trained one can't, and I've seen parties of 3-4 tamers with fully trained dragons have to leave their corpses behind in a Melisande, despite all going in with Knight of sacrifice unused, but used up on departure as ghosts. Not everyone has your magical dominance of peerless, nor the abilty to stay alive when the game pulls something stupid (like a subserver freezing during a peerless, which seems to happen about every other peerless I've done in the last year, with a party, and everyone in the party, scattered over 3-5 states, freezing).

Again, i report the facts, and professional (Crafter & T-hunter) opinion.

1. This has been repeated requested by Treasure Hunters and Crafters ever since ML was released, as part of any revision of Treasure maps. I have heard this repeatedly on those forums, and also at Town Hall meetings.

2. Anyone who states an opinion that Mondains Legacy ingredients are easier to get than Imbuing ones is either delusional or deliberately deceitful. THERE IS NO THIRD OPTION. Even if you have the perfect Solo Peerless template, that's still 20-60 minutes PER TRIP for you (I know because I've been with parties having to wait out soloists), when someone can get 10 semi-rare Imbuing ingredients without ever seeing a peerless, renowned or champ, in less time. In fact, with patience, you can get the imbuing ingredients without ever entering the Abyss, thanks to Axem and Percolem.

3. In fact, the same could be said for just getting the desirable ML ingredients in general. Just because YOU have a gimplate that can solo peerless does not mean that everyone has the 100-million gold suit and a similar expenditure on PS you do, OR the desire to play such an unbalanced to the brink of exploit template. You, apparently, have never seen a guildmate in a treasure split opt for 4 Taint to complete the armor suit they'd wanted for almost 3 years, instead of the CRIMSON CINCTURE in the same pile, like I have.

4. A surplus of the junk ML ingredients is no different than the surplus of junk Imbuing ingredients those of us hunting in SA collected before we realized we'd never imbue the property they go to. Nor does a surplus of these have any bearing on the fact that there is an obscene shortage of Taint. If there is such a glut of taint, how about you hoarders selling some of it? I didn't think so, because you don't have what you claim "everyone" has.

5. Perhaps this wouldn't be as much an issue if ML ingredients had been used in Imbuing, or if Taint & boss items were available via SA quests like the mining gems. I'd say that many of the critics of this request were among those that speculated, based on early beta reports, that the ML ingredients would play a major part in Imbuing, and hoarded all they could find for sale, and spent weeks doing Peerless over and over. Or, do people forget all the crying and screaming when this turned out not to be the case, and that the ML ingredients had only been placeholders for the current Imbuing ingredients for testing?

6. There is also the fact that FAILURE CONSUMES SOME of the TEN ingredients required by the ML recipes in question. NONE of the high-end imbues consume more than MR/EE/RF & gems on failure - you don't lose the special ingredient on imbuing.

7. Item breakage has long been a Straw Man used by those wishing to control the supply of rare items (be they ingredients, artifacts, ToT, etc.) for their own profit.
The simple fact is that this is NOT 2000 anymore, and all the wishing in the world won't turn back the clock on the existing shards. POF exists (including use before Imbuing), and as long as you aren't playing one of those broken templates designed to leech/regen your way through mass combat, Imbued items taken up to 255 before imbuing will last a year or two. For that matter, pray tell me just what shards do spellbooks (like a scrappers) break on?
This same crap came up the last time BOD rewards were changed, and those camping the Gauntlet wanted POF removed, for the same reasons. The only items that break these days are uninsured things destroyed by Verite and valorite elementals, and stuff being enhanced. If you're going to give a bogus argument, can't you at least come up with a NEW one?

8. Of course, there's also the personal part of this. No, not me, but those that oppose the idea solely because popps posted it first (and whatever popps is for , some people are automatically against). I can't help but think that at least half the drama of the last week comes from me not getting my post in first... I've not seen any of this in this thread, YET, but the other threads on the subject were rife with attacks on popps with no substantive argument against what he (and I, independently) proposed. Let's keep it on subject, please.

9. To reiterate: You can get any of the Imbuing ingredients without ever fighting a boss. The ML ingredients require staying for the entire fight, then being OBSCENELY lucky to get taint, or if fighting in the group, being the one person to get the lard/mane/etc. Some of you seem to think this is appropriate, yet I don't see ML items dominating ANYTHING, except maybe PvP potion use (and you get EC Ring ingredients from mining or doing SA quests, NOT peerless, and (GASP!) it's a permanent item unless imbued). So, where IS this hostility toward a FEW, LIMITED, items come from, that are in most ways inferior anything imbued, or even runic crafted?

Well put.

I am a Crafter as well.

 

[Tanivar]

Ok, Hows this for an idea to toss out there (I know it could not be implemented right now as development time would be needed) But what if they took the idea that was posted by someone and give out map fragments that could be combined to give basically a lvl 7 map (lvl 6 map spawn can be used and maybe even doubled for the initial spawn). It would take several fragments to combine before you actually get the completed map. I was thinking 20-30.
The loot for these could be the peerless regs and loot with a possibility of artifacts and or replicas. It would give the dev's a better control on the items flowing into the game as they could increase the rarity of map fragments or the number needed to combine together without affecting drops on the regular chests.

It is just a basic idea and would need to be sorted a bit better but I think it would solve alot of issues here and ad a bit more depth to t hunting.

Would this make the ML ingredients less ridiculously hard for Crafters to get?rolleyes:

 

[slaveone]

I I always enjoyed doing the different peerless bosses, and I noticed that they are not hunted much anymore. Add the peerless reagents to Treasure maps - and there is even less reason to do peerless bosses anymore.
So I am heavily AGAINST them being added .... and no - I did not vote before.

This is what i'm talking about. Popps won't ever be satisfied even if they DID put peerless ingredients into chests he'd find something else to whine about thats his speil. The Devs WILL NEVER put peerless ingredients in t-chests that would destroy 80% of the reasons left to do them.

Not to mention if popps is a "true" crafter whatever the heck that means he probably doesn't have a thunter capable of getting these chests and any "true" crafter wouldn't cause his own words claim a "true" crafter is one who mainly crafts. If you MAINLY craft you don't have time to make a level 6 thunter so i fail to see how this would help a "true" crafter. Making a viable T-hunter is one of the harder fighter type templates to make so how are "true" crafters going to make out if this change was even put into effect. The answer THEY WON'T! This whole thread is dumb and shouldn't have even been reopened....

 

[popps]

They just want it all.

May I ask you a question ?

Why do you say this for ML ingredients but NOT for imbuing ingredients ??

I mean, why is it fine for you that imbuing ingredients which already have a variety of spawning sources are added to Treasure Chests but then when it comes to ML ingredients it is all about "wanting it all" ?

And why preserving the rarity of the older Ilshenar Maps which there are probably a handfull of them in the game does not go with the "want it all" logic just as well ?

I mean, why ML ingredients are to be treated differently and in such a more harsh way ?

I really do not get it.

 

[Lord Chaos]

A level 7 map with peerless as guardians. hehehe. Two birds with one stone.

 

[popps]

This is what i'm talking about. Popps won't ever be satisfied even if they DID put peerless ingredients into chests he'd find something else to whine about thats his speil. The Devs WILL NEVER put peerless ingredients in t-chests that would destroy 80% of the reasons left to do them.

Now that is news to me.

People do Peerless to get muculent, blight, corruption and the like and not perhaps for Crimson Cincture, Crystalline Ring, Mark of the Travesty, Monstrous Interred Grizzle Armor Set, Scepter of the Chief, Grizzled Mare Statuette, Paroxysmus Swamp Dragon Statuette ??

Thanks for clarifying that to me as I thought that the ingredients were just an added bonus but not really the reason for doing peerless....

Not to mention if popps is a "true" crafter whatever the heck that means he probably doesn't have a thunter capable of getting these chests and any "true" crafter wouldn't cause his own words claim a "true" crafter is one who mainly crafts.

Given the path the game took, many crafters had to develop fighters but that does not mean that they do not prefer or enjoy crafting more....

One thing really beats me.

The discussion about ML ingredients to be added to Treasure Chests is felt by some as annoying and useless but imbuing ingredients added to Treasure chests does not raise the same negativity.

Makes no sense to me considering how much more powerfull imbuing is and how already imbuing ingredients are way more readily available than ML ingredients.

Do not get me wrong, I am in favour by all means for imbuing ingredients to be widely and readily available and so, I favour 100% their appearance in Treasure Chests.

It only is, for the reasons explained by me and others, that along with them also ML ingredients should have been added.

 

[popps]

A level 7 map with peerless as guardians. hehehe. Two birds with one stone.

Yeah right, with all 6 Peerless bosses spawning all at once as the chest appears........

 

[Tanivar]

I I always enjoyed doing the different peerless bosses, and I noticed that they are not hunted much anymore. Add the peerless reagents to Treasure maps - and there is even less reason to do peerless bosses anymore.
So I am heavily AGAINST them being added .... and no - I did not vote before.

This is what i'm talking about. Popps won't ever be satisfied even if they DID put peerless ingredients into chests he'd find something else to whine about thats his speil. The Devs WILL NEVER put peerless ingredients in t-chests that would destroy 80% of the reasons left to do them.

Not to mention if popps is a "true" crafter whatever the heck that means he probably doesn't have a thunter capable of getting these chests and any "true" crafter wouldn't cause his own words claim a "true" crafter is one who mainly crafts. If you MAINLY craft you don't have time to make a level 6 thunter so i fail to see how this would help a "true" crafter. Making a viable T-hunter is one of the harder fighter type templates to make so how are "true" crafters going to make out if this change was even put into effect. The answer THEY WON'T! This whole thread is dumb and shouldn't have even been reopened....

A "True" Crafter is a Player whose primary play is the crafting of items, the gathering of the materials needed, when possible, and who is not particularly interested in the combat aspects of the game. A "True" Crafter is a Maker, Not a Breaker.

The first three characters I made back in 2000 when I joined UO were two Crafters and a combat-type to forage materials for them. Though Crafting got screwed over by the BOD system and AoS, I continued to play as a Crafter though I built up more battle capable characters since EA had made Crafting no longer a viable playstyle.

I have two characters built for Crafting, a Fisher with full magery & bandaging skills, a Tamer/Peacemaker, a Thunter with full magery skills, an Archer Paladin with Provocation, and my most powerful character, a Nox Mage/Mystic who carries a powerful mage throwning weapon. All die quickly in a ML dungeon due to the over buffed mobs.

The Thunter's template is:

Cartography........100
Lockpicking.........100
Mining................100
Magery...............120...(110 real + 10 jewelry)
Eval Int..............120...(110 real +10 jewelry)
Meditation...........100
Resit Magic..........110...(100 real +10 jewelry)

He can do all level maps though the L6 mobs take a fair bit of time to kill.

The only things I do not craft are those things that require materials to ridiculously hard to get to be any fun doing, or that are just to dang expensive when bought from vendors.

Having the ML ingredients accesable via Thunting would make them accessable to Crafters.

 

[Surgeries]

Each player with a UO account has up to 7 character slots available, for a price, and up to 6 by default.

Even if a person had 4 True Crafters, the opportunity exists to create a strong enough character to actually go do two person Mels, Paroxy, etc.

A person can say they "Don't" "Won't" "Can't" "Refuse" or whatever other reason they want to offer for not engaging in the activity that nets the desired result.

But see...to me, that is myopic and unaccountable, as well as uncreative and not accurate thinking.

If a person was to ask themselves relentlessly "What Else Can I Do to Rise Above My Circumstances and Achieve the Desired Result?", and relentlessly pursue the answer(s) with as much persistence and desire as is being demonstrated to, say, get a Classic Shard going, or to acquire "Hard to Get" items or ingredients themselves, I am sure most, if not all of the people that actually went and did this would be highly, and most pleasantly surprised.

Or, a person can keep doing what they have done, or not done, to achieve the desired results, and then pancake about the results they are getting.

See...I have 4 mages between three accounts, and I have them all scrolled to 120. I have never done even a single Champ Spawn in Fel. In fact, all of the characters on two accounts (13 total) are all scrolled out with the best gear, with a full True Bard, 2 120 Tamers, etc. etc.

How have I done it? PvM, and Vendors, along with a good dose of Crafting on my own, from my one True Crafter.

I am certainly not the richest player, at all, but I do OK...and I do OK because I chose professions in the game I enjoy (fighting monsters and crafting), and then I worked tirelessly at goals I set.

Some folks enjoy PvP. They love to fight for scrolls. I love to not PvP, and play UO doing Peerless, and the harder monsters in the game, and in so doing, I am able to gain that which I desire strongly enough to figure out how to get it done.

And anyone...anyone...can do it. As long as their time isn't spent rationalizing all the reasons they can't do something, and then making excuses for their failure to achieve the desired result.

Ford said it best: "Think you Can, or Think You Can't...Either Way...You'll Be Right".

 

[Apetul]

"Easily" ??

Easily for who ? Perhaps for those who have Sampires and solo them ?

And what matters more, as easily as imbuing ingredients are readily available ?

Imbuing ingredients which make for way more powerfull items than ML ingredients can ?

Easily for small groups, no need to solo them.
But anyway, you are just saying that because ML ingredients are hard to get to you then they must spawn on a tresure chest? Oh my.. whats next? replicas? doom artys? ps 120?
Btw I missed the last two EM events on LS, i think ill ask the devs to add those rewards on chests too.. yeah why not.

 

[Shelleybean]

It won’t be a deal breaker for me that peerless reagents are not in treasure chests. That being said, I think a lot of this discussion is indicative of a larger issue. For whatever reason, players don’t like or want to hunt peerless. I actually like fighting them, but it’s getting the keys that I despise. They put them in an area with tons of monsters around that instantly respawn. In fact, the respawn is so fast that the one you’ve just killed still shows it’s alive while the new one respawns. This leaves zero time to think, much less try to loot the key, which is the whole point in fighting them. Also, the drop rate of the keys is unreasonable. Prism of Light should be renamed Prism that Sucks. I’ve spent two hours before just trying to get one key off the hydras and never got it. Then once you finally get all the keys, you get master keys that last a whopping 10 minutes! I hope nothing goes wrong because if it does, you’ve wasted hours of time. I enjoy hunting, whether it be in groups or solo. I don’t mind working for something I want either. If peerless reagents won’t be put in chests, maybe acquiring peerless keys can be made to suck less. On that note, the dev that set up Medusa did it right. Neither the keys nor the boss fight is terribly unreasonable and it’s one of the few peerless that I enjoy hunting regularly.

 

[Viquire]

I'm not "voting" but I vote, no.

There is nothing wrong with hunting in Illsh or "old school lands if you want to try and get a decent chance at viking swords or norse helms for loot.

If you want the ML content play the ML dungeons. If you cant solo the bosses get some friends or xfer to where your friends are so you can compete and complete your objective.

Very tired of all things new making all things old obsolete anyway.

Play the game as you have to to get the things you want from the systems you want them from.

Or maybe there should be a chance at high end runics in the chests as well, then I could play the way I want to all the time and not have to fool around with BODs, which IMHO are a much bigger PITA than running peerless bosses.

 

[Tanivar]

Easily for small groups, no need to solo them.
But anyway, you are just saying that because ML ingredients are hard to get to you then they must spawn on a tresure chest? Oh my.. whats next? replicas? doom artys? ps 120?
Btw I missed the last two EM events on LS, i think ill ask the devs to add those rewards on chests too.. yeah why not.

Are you the one they send out to get something during serious discussion? rolleyes:

Read Surgeries post above yours. it's a good example of a good arguement.

-------------------

[quote from Surgeries]
See...I have 4 mages between three accounts, and I have them all scrolled to 120. I have never done even a single Champ Spawn in Fel. In fact, all of the characters on two accounts (13 total) are all scrolled out with the best gear, with a full True Bard, 2 120 Tamers, etc. etc.[/quote]

My characters are recently powerscrolled up and I've imbued 70's Resist's suits for all of them with every buff I could pack in. My characters run out of hps before the mobs would even have to worry about theirs. So far my batting average with ML dungeons has been zero and I finally quit wasting my playtime running around in black & white.

You may have the quick reactions and drive needed to beat the ML dungeons. I don't anymore. I can do SE & SA, but ML I haven't been able to do.

How many other players do you see in ML dungeons? Not many if any I would bet. I ran into someone, once, in the tree dungeon east of Shame. I don't think many players find them fun. Probably why EA lightened up with SA.

 

[Nyses]

9. To reiterate: You can get any of the Imbuing ingredients without ever fighting a boss. The ML ingredients require staying for the entire fight, then being OBSCENELY lucky to get taint, or if fighting in the group, being the one person to get the lard/mane/etc. Some of you seem to think this is appropriate, yet I don't see ML items dominating ANYTHING, except maybe PvP potion use (and you get EC Ring ingredients from mining or doing SA quests, NOT peerless, and (GASP!) it's a permanent item unless imbued). So, where IS this hostility toward a FEW, LIMITED, items come from, that are in most ways inferior anything imbued, or even runic crafted?

A few more thoughts on this:

I would be fine if SA ingreedints and mining gems did not have a 2nd way to aquire them.

Adding ML ingreedients to chests will effectivly allow ones crafter to play more of a solo game, as one does not have to trade for said ingreedients or get with a buddy and go do a peerless.

For anyone who believes it is only those "evil" Solo Sampires that have stocks of ingreedients, I can easily show you how to Solo a Grizzle with a Tamer, Paroxy or Dreadhorn with a Thrower, or (and this may be difficut) Get ONE friend with a GD or even a Cu, and I will show you how to do a 2 person Mel, or Trav, np.

Edit: Basara, it is not hostility. I just desire systems (read ingreedients and loot in this case) that will encourage the trade (t-hunting) to stay alive. How many years has it been abandoned, but for the occasional change of pace?

 

[Tanivar]

For anyone who believes it is only those "evil" Solo Sampires that have stocks of ingreedients, I can easily show you how to Solo a Grizzle with a Tamer, Paroxy or Dreadhorn with a Thrower, or (and this may be difficut) Get ONE friend with a GD or even a Cu, and I will show you how to do a 2 person Mel, or Trav, np.

You by chance play on Chessie? I'm game to learn the skills.

 

[Nyses]

You by chance play on Chessie? I'm game to learn the skills.

I play on Pac, these days. I will have to see which other shards I could do that on.

I am happy to show you though. Mel tends to be the easiest to repeat, as the keys are straight forward and on a timer (not random like the others). Also if you are going in with a friend, you can both work for the keys and you both can have a set ready to go and a set as backup, each (4 Mels total).

As long as it is a buddy you trust, stay partied and you loot the first, he takes the 2nd and so on. You will each get a full set of 8 ingeedients and the special one, per Mel, plus all the other goodies. I say stay partied, as I think you get better loot, but maybe not.