please fix vampires/ninjas

[Ash]

I say it still sounds like singling out one template for a nerf.

Not sure I know why people want to nerf something, don't we get nerfed enough without asking for it?

Ok, so what if someone uses a sampire to solo a peerless? How does that effect you? I mean really, why should you care if someone goes out to fight any monster one on one?

For PvP, if you think he is overpowered to fight him 2 choices, either don't or throw on a ward remover and knock him out of vamp form. Problem solved, and look at that you don't even need to use skill points to knock out his vamp form.

No where does it state that people have to PvM in large groups to go places, there are plenty of people that play this game at odd hours from their friends or have yet to make a group of friends to go hunting with, so should they be limited to killing mongbats because people are envious of them being able to use the items available to go out?

Again why ask for a nerf, we get them enough. How another player plays the game only should effect you in PvP and the Ward Remover tally more than evens the playing field when it comes to dexers in vampire form.

 

[Limlight]

I will agree that sometimes its hard to play in groups at odd hours.

My problem with the template is not that it can solo a peerless. Its how EASY it can solo a peerless.

 

[ColterDC]

When you go around PVM'ing and see that 9 out of 10 players are TAMERS, you know there is a problem.

If you've read any of my other posts you would know my 2 major complaints

1. EO and Para (at 120 resist I shouldn't need a trapped box)

2. Greater Dragons (Tamers in general are overpowered)


All of these other problems are secondary.

Also in case you missed the post, I also use the vampiric embrace with only 35 real skill. Doesn't mean I don't think it's messed up to get the full benefit of the highest req. necro spell with so little invested into it.

 

[ColterDC]

And oh yeah, I'm pretty sure monsters don't cast evil omen.

LMAO. Maybe you should actually get out and PvM before you make statements like this. They really kill credibility.

I knew you were going to say that. So I went to some LL's last night and set it up so they could only cast spells at me (occasionally they would teleport) but on average I had 2 LL's casting on me and not once in 20 minutes did I see the EO indicator come up on my screen. So either they don't cast it or it's so rare that it's not even worth worrying about. Not to mention the odds of the stupid AI casting an EO followed by a para are probably pretty low. More than likely if they did cast an EO at you it would be followed by some stupid spell like a harm or magic arrow.

Now if there is a different monster that you think will do it, let me know and I will try again when I get home.

Also I know that I have gotten the EO indicator "stuck" on the display several times on my pvp chars. Never have I had that happen on a pvm char.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"So either they don't cast it or it's so rare that it's not even worth worrying about."

They do cast it. You just ran into one of those RNG streaks that happened to be in your favor this time. I'd say it would be a good time to go buy a lottery ticket.


"Not to mention the odds of the stupid AI casting an EO followed by a para are probably pretty low."

That's funny. I get it cast on me pretty consistently.



"Now if there is a different monster that you think will do it, let me know and I will try again when I get home"

Dark Wisps would be a good one. They cast it all the time. Dark Guardians do too, but they're a much weaker spellcaster than the Wisps.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I will agree that sometimes its hard to play in groups at odd hours.

My problem with the template is not that it can solo a peerless. Its how EASY it can solo a peerless.

Tamers have it even easier, and can solo more of them than the meleers can. I don't see anyone calling for Tamer nerfs in PvM on a regular basis, yet we see the call for nerfs with meleers consistently by (and this is no surprise) Tamers and Mages. I guess they just don't want to wait in line for the Peerless so they'll just call to nerf their competition.

 

[ColterDC]

That's funny. I get it cast on me pretty consistently.

Since I know you're sitting at home, you could easily prove it. Go get a screen shot of you fighting a necro casting monster. The screen shot would need to show 2 things;

1. The EO icon on your display.

2. The message saying your resist spells skill has been lowered.

 

[ColterDC]

Everything Still Frame just said is 100% correct.

Nice post.

 

[Stigmatas]

Yea, there is a problem alright. The problem that any dexxer (melee'er) in today's high end PVM is at a disadvantage without using something like the vampire leech. The problem lies in the fact that a melee'er has to take direct damage from creatures that can put out more damage than your fullly equiped Fel gank squad.

When you go around PVM'ing and see that 9 out of 10 players are TAMERS, you know there is a problem.

I surely hope I don't have to explain to you how much easier it is to play a tamer in PVM do I? You are looking at this from a pvp point of view. WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD.

Why do you think 9 out of 10 peerless hunters will be a tamer? There is ALWAYS a tamer present to tank. Most times In other games it was always the melee'er who was the tank. You need to stop and take an objective view from a PVM standpoint where creatures put out extremely high damage #'s in very short times, and then realize what a dexxer has to put up with. Every single player I've played with over the last 5 years or so has given up on their melee characters in favor of either a tamer or a mage/bard. Most of the ones who have not are playing Sampire templates. There is a reason for that.

You don't go around nerfing crap just because you "think" it's imbalanced. You evaluate the cause and effect of a problem and come up with alternative solutions that can achieve balance. Even with max DCI a melle'er cannot pretend to start tanking high end creatures. Life leech, mana leech, slayers, and FORMS were put into the game to address some of these shortcomings of the melee template.

Stop trying to screw with them. You only move the game closer to tamers/mages online.

One question... Will you marry me?

It's possible only if your a chick and you know how to cook a good steak.

Yay I have groupies now!


It's nice to know there are more anti-nerfherders around these days. Gotta keep the crap on these boards in check. Otherwise the devs might actually listen to some of this crap since we know they don't get to play the game near as much as the average UO diehard. If they did, and actually enjoyed playing melee templates, well, we would'nt have the situation we've had for the last ten years catering to tamers.

I could farm some of the highest end non peerless creatures in the game NAKED on my tamers and still do very well. That says a lot. What other template takes two skills (taming and lore) and turns them into 7 more skills to act as your offense/defense?

If anything, melee templates need to be looked at with regard to tanking ability. I fear it will never happen because of course it would hose pvp. Another fine reason to segregate pvp from pvm shardwide so you can have different formulas on how damage is calculated.

 

[Stigmatas]

I say it still sounds like singling out one template for a nerf.

Not sure I know why people want to nerf something, don't we get nerfed enough without asking for it?

Ok, so what if someone uses a sampire to solo a peerless? How does that effect you? I mean really, why should you care if someone goes out to fight any monster one on one?

For PvP, if you think he is overpowered to fight him 2 choices, either don't or throw on a ward remover and knock him out of vamp form. Problem solved, and look at that you don't even need to use skill points to knock out his vamp form.

No where does it state that people have to PvM in large groups to go places, there are plenty of people that play this game at odd hours from their friends or have yet to make a group of friends to go hunting with, so should they be limited to killing mongbats because people are envious of them being able to use the items available to go out?

Again why ask for a nerf, we get them enough. How another player plays the game only should effect you in PvP and the Ward Remover tally more than evens the playing field when it comes to dexers in vampire form.

Do you know how to cook steak?

Great post.

 

[Stigmatas]

I will agree that sometimes its hard to play in groups at odd hours.

My problem with the template is not that it can solo a peerless. Its how EASY it can solo a peerless.

It is NOT easy. Just because I and maybe you can do it, does not make it easy. It took me a long time to learn how to and get the equipment to do so. Not to mention getting all keys solo. Not to mention how long it takes to get the keys solo, then do the peerless. I could just as easily go with a group of buddies and do 5X the amount of peerless in a group as i could solo. THAT is the tradeoff. That is balance.

Even though I can solo every peerless in the game (not all with a sampire mind you) I usually choose not to. It's not something I do often. When you get right down to it, its a pain in the ass to do so. I'd rather get a small group of trusted friends to do it if I can. And usually do. Of course, I've not been playing much since spring has sprung. I'm refering to the past. Although I've been playing a bit more in the last week or so.

Another thing of note here is this: Some of the peerless are not doable (maybe they are, I don't know; havn't tried) by a sampire. Instead, I can solo them because I HAVE TWO COMPUTERS, two accounts, and a tamer on each account. Walla, instant duo (solo) of any peerless in the game. And it's all legit as long as you don't use 3rd party crap cept UOA to do so. Can be done by anyone, if you have the hardware and the knowhow.

So what's next? NERF PEOPLE WITH MORE THAN ONE COMPUTER!!oneone

Not.

 

[Stigmatas]

And oh yeah, I'm pretty sure monsters don't cast evil omen.

LMAO. Maybe you should actually get out and PvM before you make statements like this. They really kill credibility.

I knew you were going to say that. So I went to some LL's last night and set it up so they could only cast spells at me (occasionally they would teleport) but on average I had 2 LL's casting on me and not once in 20 minutes did I see the EO indicator come up on my screen. So either they don't cast it or it's so rare that it's not even worth worrying about. Not to mention the odds of the stupid AI casting an EO followed by a para are probably pretty low. More than likely if they did cast an EO at you it would be followed by some stupid spell like a harm or magic arrow.

Now if there is a different monster that you think will do it, let me know and I will try again when I get home.

Also I know that I have gotten the EO indicator "stuck" on the display several times on my pvp chars. Never have I had that happen on a pvm char.

They do it. Try dark wisps, they seem to do it more often. I only actually knew they were casting EO because it WAS getting stuck on my buff bar all the time. Very annoying.

 

[Nystul]

My problem with the template is not that it can solo a peerless. Its how EASY it can solo a peerless.

Exactly...

Stop trying to make YOUR problem, turn into everyone elses problem.

 

[Ash]

Do you know how to cook steak?

Great post.

Yeah, marinate in Jack Daniels for several hours then toss on the grill.. Done, like every GUY should know.

As for the topic.. What's next banning people from using 100% Life Leech weapons? I have a 100% mana leech lance with hit lower defense and a 100% Life Leech Demon Slayer Lance, am i not supposed to use them or is 100% Life leech different than 30% Vampire Leech? Only thing that prevents me from using it is since they are lances and have horrible swing rate, but if a lance can have those properties then surely a katana or kryss can.

 

[Saris]

Hi again, just to clarify.

Abyssmal Horrors EO me non stop so does DF

I have pain with peerless so I solo doom

Anyone from Atlantic is bound to have seen The Purple Knight there.

As far as how easy it is, how easy is it to burn a bunch of Val hammers to get close to what you realy need.

20m a suit, Ya right
120M maybey

I have seen Sampire weps sell for up to 300$
wep range from 40M-400M

Leach sucks so bad in PVP anyway who cares other than the poison imunity.

Hope ya know though if we change it where SS gives you a bonus at 120
I will simply adapt and go god mode, thanks

 

[5% Luck]

I run a tamer (my main char)

120 macing
105 taming
110 lore
100 tactics
100 vet
70 chivalrey
35 necro *vamp*
35 magery *wind*
25 focus

As far as Im concerned skill boost items soulstones and free char building is what makes UO.

I vamp out and hit the greater dragons in wind(fel) I get 60 barbed leather a kill. I tame the "best" dragons. I have a great time.

When it comes to peerless I still havnt soloed one on this char. They all switch target too much. I do have a parry sampire that can solo them but i dont. I can clearly benefit much much more from grouping. A good group can do 10 peerles in the same time it takes one of there "soloers" to do one.

Sure it feels good to do it once in a while but, its not optimum to do so.

As far as Pvp is concrened I have an archer some of you remember from the skillz killz post on the old boards 830 skill points ! seriously!

Anyhow I run that char in vamp form when i pvp and i gain only a point of health per hit without curse weapon. That means i alrdy need spirit speak to be an effective leecher.

The whole basis of this post is ridiculas to me as it cripples all that i stay here for.

UO to me is

free character builds
souls stones
massive skill boosting

Well hell lets kill my bard too
15 discord ring
crystalline ring
12/14 provo/music braclet 0/3
15 eval braclet w/12 sdi
srcappers w/11 resist spells
I swap these around as needed and coudn't SOLO the entire guantlet with out it

In fact even my tailor/carp swaps in music jewlery, arms and, ax just to make instruments and those instruments last a whole heck of a lot longer than any form change!

I think all my chars take advantage to some degree of skill boosting items for one specific effect or another!

I mean F@#% YOU man!

 

[Wenchkin]

Tamers have it even easier, and can solo more of them than the meleers can. I don't see anyone calling for Tamer nerfs in PvM on a regular basis, yet we see the call for nerfs with meleers consistently by (and this is no surprise) Tamers and Mages. I guess they just don't want to wait in line for the Peerless so they'll just call to nerf their competition.

Tamers have it even easier, and can solo more of them than the meleers can. I don't see anyone calling for Tamer nerfs in PvM on a regular basis, yet we see the call for nerfs with meleers consistently by (and this is no surprise) Tamers and Mages. I guess they just don't want to wait in line for the Peerless so they'll just call to nerf their competition.

You haven't seen complaints about tamers? Just about every thread here gets some anti tamer crap in it, even if it's on another subject. Where have you been reading?

I would like 2 things for the taming profession - to be well away from the highest damage output template, and to be rid of the "twink" tamers. Then there would be far fewer of us and we wouldn't offend anyone simply by playing our chars. We wouldn't be considered as overpowered, and we wouldn't be called "instant gimp tamers" in the process.

If you feel upset or offended by tamers, try walking on the other side of the fence and defending the honourable decent folks who play tamers properly.

Want to know why some tamers have issues with warriors? It's because we know situations when we're hunting and a warrior comes along and wtfpwns the beasts in half that time or less. Then we hear "tamers are overpowered and must be nerfed!!!1111!!" on a forum and think about that dungeon trip. Mmm, you think we're much more powerful than you? So what about that warrior, and that one, and the ones last week? Funny how everyone becomes a weakling when they're wanting another class nerfed Maybe they just can't play their template well, but if they can gather enough steam perhaps a nerf can be dragged through. At least that often seems to be the motivation. Pulling others down to the level they are at. Which IMO is school yard behaviour.

Must try to make shorter posts LOL...

Wenchy

 

[Saris]

If only they would make spell weaving items lol.

All the ppl that rez Saris knows the temp is not overpowered, just impresive.

So when you want to do doom and no one is around, my template is very much liked by others.

I still dont get the peerless my mage does ok but Saris can 50/50 take on dread and parox, but my mage has to get the keys lol.

Griz you cant even try unless your naked or ranged, Trav turns into to me but with many many many times more HP and if and when I get her low fills the entire screen with ninja lol.

I have yet to try Shimmer with Saris but I hate the abyssmal horrors, so I would prob not want to try Shimmer

I dont think any template is overpowered personaly, they all have things they can or cant do, thats why we have more slots.

We want the game more ballanced? I think it already is in PVM

PVP however I cant say I have not done much in last few years.

 

[shadowking]

my only point is why do wraith form have to depend on ss forthere leech abilitys and not vamp form? both are forms that the necro can take, but one depends on ss why? i just though it should be the same across the board for the froms including horrific beast they all need boost to there abilitys. make horrific beast form regen rate scaled to ss, make the lich form scaled to ss aswell, eighter way wraith form was singled out. not fair, i started playing uo when it first came out and seen alot of changes. i played dnd whem it wsa still just a purple book with 30 pages. i just want to see thing treated equal. im not saying nerf anything. sure cast vamp with 35 real skill+ items, jewels np same with tamers let them tame with there item skill enhancing.

 

[galefan2004]

It sounds like someone can not beat dexxers. Dexxers are far from overpowered. Sure, they use back door tricks to compete, but those back door tricks just keep them on a level playing field. If anything, pure dexxers need love so they don't have to use tricks to compete.

 

[galefan2004]

As much as I don't want to agree with this (mainly because I was thinking of adding necro to my fencer for this feature), I have to say that it does make sense and adds a purpose to a pretty meaningless skill (does anyone really use spirit speak?).

It only heals you better than magery through both poison and mortal strike yet it is useless? Spirit speak is one of the best healing options available in the game. Necros definately use it all the time, and other templates (without necromancy) often pick it up for the healing powers it gives.

 

[galefan2004]

"I guess the PVP focus group"

So once again PvP gets to F**K up PvM.

Yeah, let's take the input from a bunch of players that represent the minority on a playstyle they care nothing about but includes the majority, who had no input on it themselves.

Give me a good reason WHY this needs to change from a PvM perspective and nerf the holy hell out of meleers yet again, or is it once again the tamers and mage hybrids don't like meleers being able to do some of the same things they can?

I'm in full support of keeping this system in game (with +skill items and all) unless the developers find another way to buff dexxers to be able to compete without this form. Dexxers should have all the powers of a tamer or any other template. Thats coming from a tamer. I don't think anyone should be able to solo the hardest stuff, but to do it with two or more people (other than Doom) it shouldn't really matter what your template is.

 

[galefan2004]

Last I checked frog form ninjas are not a problem.
Sampires (Not vampires as OP suggested.... LOL) are not a problem! (But wait, someone is jealous cause someone else soloed a Dreadhorn?! And it should take like 20 randoms from luna!!!!)

It really should take two or more people REGARDLESS of templates, but at the same time it should be doable with two to three people. The easy solution to this is to buff DH's hps so that it is not possible for a single tamer or single dexxer to kill them within two hours. Nerfing a play style is not the way to go here. Its funny that people throw fits because dexxers can solo DH, but I see very little said about how a spellweaving tamer can pown Travesty in 35 minutes or under with a greater dragon and a level 5 focus (and this is coming from a tamer).

 

[galefan2004]

They should also "fix" it so tamers cannot use jewerly to bond thier pets, without the "real" taming skill right?

Sure. Lets do that. Then lets see how many players go play WoW instead of UO. Messing with tamers is not a great way to keep UO alive.

That being said, the only way I support them changing the sampire template is if they give dexxers a way to compete in end game without needing vampiric embrace.

 

[galefan2004]

Absolutely. Also if you don't have the skill required the pet should become unbonded (after a warning of course). That would help balance those Greater Dragons because not many people have the 106.8 or whatever Animal Taming is needed to bond them.

It needs to be said again...

You mess with tamers then you mess with the life of UO. More people play this game to play a tamer then to play any other template. If I wanted to play a melee or a caster I would still be playing WoW where those templates actually made sense.

 

[5% Luck]

Ill go so far as to sugest a +25 necro sash or half apron!

Lets see hrrmmm mages get a free 120 points in a single item called the 0 mage staff

What its not so far fetched!

 

[Nystul]

Sure. Lets do that. Then lets see how many players go play WoW instead of UO. Messing with tamers is not a great way to keep UO alive.

That being said, the only way I support them changing the sampire template is if they give dexxers a way to compete in end game without needing vampiric embrace.

I see you did'nt realize it that my post was sarcasm!

 

[Nystul]

It really should take two or more people REGARDLESS of templates, but at the same time it should be doable with two to three people. The easy solution to this is to buff DH's hps so that it is not possible for a single tamer or single dexxer to kill them within two hours. Nerfing a play style is not the way to go here. Its funny that people throw fits because dexxers can solo DH, but I see very little said about how a spellweaving tamer can pown Travesty in 35 minutes or under with a greater dragon and a level 5 focus (and this is coming from a tamer).

Why should it take two or more people?

Because you THINK so?

Not everyone likes to group up. There are a lot of solo players. What is wrong with them being able to play how they prefer, solo?

Do we really want uo to turn into another crappy wow like game?



I don't understand what the big deal is anyways. Someone is soloing a peerless or boss for items.



At least they are doing it honestly. Unlike things like mass farming bods via trail accounts, script mining, and obtaining more runics/powders of fort then one can sell...

 

[galefan2004]

Oh, and people, Vamp form dexers are a problem in PvM not PvP. This is a PvM balance issue much more than PvP.

The problem I have with this statement is that at no time in 10 years was UO EVER balanced for PvM. The beauty of UO is that if you want to go kill the hardest creatures solo you can most likely find a way to do so. If you want to start balancing PvM then you are going to have to actually require groups in order to do end game content, and if you do that then WoW and other group based games are far and superior to UO.

 

[galefan2004]

I see you did'nt realize it that my post was sarcasm!

My sarcasm monitor is off atm, and when someone starts trying to nerf my perfered playstyle out of existance it makes me want to say screw UO. If they ended the tamer template (or made you have to have real skill although no other skill needs to have real skill) then I wouldn't bother to log in again.

I don't want to see the Sampire done away with unless they buff dexxers. Maybe dex itself should enhance DCI and hp regen rate. Perhaps stamina should also be used instead of mana for special moves. There is a lot of work that needs done to the warrior template to make them competitive in high end pvm that doesn't unbalance them in pvp. Seeing that will probably never happen...let them use sampire templates if it allows them to accomplish equal standing in end game without the developers actually buffing the template to what it should be.

 

[galefan2004]

Why should it take two or more people?

Because you THINK so?

Because an MMORPG is normally accepted to be about playing with others. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this.

Not everyone likes to group up. There are a lot of solo players. What is wrong with them being able to play how they prefer, solo?

I perfer solo play myself, but I think certain things should require grouping. If you want this to be a solo game then I fail to see where it is a MMORPG. I think that players should be able to solo everything in this game except spawns, peerless, and Doom. On the other hand, those are the only things really worth doing anymore which is a huge oversight in UO.

Do we really want uo to turn into another crappy wow like game?

No, but there is a huge difference between playing with 1-2 good friends then having to have 4-24 strangers everytime you do anything.

I don't understand what the big deal is anyways. Someone is soloing a peerless or boss for items.

The general consensus was that these creatures were designed for group play. I don't see what the big deal is that people should not be able to solo these but should be able to do them with a VERY small group (2-3 people max).

At least they are doing it honestly. Unlike things like mass farming bods via trail accounts, script mining, and obtaining more runics/powders of fort then one can sell...

My feelings about all that stuff is it is crap. There is no way you can justify BODS giving better weapons and armor than hunting monsters does. If you hunt the hardest monsters in the game you shouldn't be getting junk loot from them that doesn't live up to something made with a dull copper runic or a spined sewing kit.

 

[Shelleybean]

ok everyone is complaining about a nerf how about this. if you have 100 necro/ ss then you get 30% life leech and at 120 you get 35% how does this sound? a bonus ?

I'd rather have this than a nerf for sure. However it would be a matter of days before players would complain that the bonus is somehow overpowered. I think some players (not you) are angry over the idea that other players use items to enhance their templates. That's a separate issue altogether and no single template should be nerfed because of it. It's an item based game and people will use their items.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

my only point is why do wraith form have to depend on ss forthere leech abilitys and not vamp form? both are forms that the necro can take, but one depends on ss why? i just though it should be the same across the board for the froms including horrific beast they all need boost to there abilitys. make horrific beast form regen rate scaled to ss, make the lich form scaled to ss aswell, eighter way wraith form was singled out. not fair, i started playing uo when it first came out and seen alot of changes. i played dnd whem it wsa still just a purple book with 30 pages. i just want to see thing treated equal. im not saying nerf anything. sure cast vamp with 35 real skill+ items, jewels np same with tamers let them tame with there item skill enhancing.

Well from that perspective shouldn't wraith form be changed to not need ss? As it's the only one that does need it.

 

[Saris]

Hmm let me explaine.

Wraith form takes the mana from them and give it to you, you can see the black wispy crap come back to you as mana.

This causes mobs to cast spells less

VE's health leech does not do anything extra to them, it just gives you life for free based off how much you did but the, damage you do to them is the same.

so wraith form takes the mobs hits for damage to hp and drains their mana

Vamps just do damage to hp

thats why it should not need ss and wraith form should

also wraiths leech from spells vamps dont

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Your explanation isn't needed, I know how it works. I'm just saying that by his logic it should be wraith form changing.

I'm still against it being changed at all.

 

[Saris]

I will redirect it from you to most others reading this then lol

 

[Stigmatas]

Yeah, marinate in Jack Daniels for several hours then toss on the grill.. Done, like every GUY should know.

As for the topic.. What's next banning people from using 100% Life Leech weapons? I have a 100% mana leech lance with hit lower defense and a 100% Life Leech Demon Slayer Lance, am i not supposed to use them or is 100% Life leech different than 30% Vampire Leech? Only thing that prevents me from using it is since they are lances and have horrible swing rate, but if a lance can have those properties then surely a katana or kryss can.

Exactly! And the steak too. Of course every guy should know that (Jack Daniels is good, but there are other stuffs too ). But find me a girl that knows what you and I know from experience, and I'll marry her

The thing is, they already nerfed life leech, mana leech, heal times, evasion, swing rates (thanks a lot Tact...regardless of how he spun it, it was a nerf. My kat's definately swung one "tick" slower after that publish he wove). And what do they do for tamers. Give out cu sidhes, a pet that has 600 HP and heals itself, is mountable, and then greater dragons. 900 HP pets that bleed and firebreath. I love my pets, but it's time that melee templates got some love. I'd love to see sheaths for weapons put into the game WITH mods on them like DCI or resists, or both. And as long as it's available, and NOT rare, nobody should complain since they can use it too.

What really should happen is for combat to be looked over and see how melee templates could benefit from say tactics so they could dodge blows (evasion sytle, but thats already come and gone..thanks for that) OR depending on the templates tactics value, decrease the amount of damage cumulative with resists. Then simply ignore that value for pvp.