Please allow rowboats in

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well, criticism is certainly important as different people can sure have different opinions and see things from different angles but personally, I do not see much reasons to either insult anyone personally or for one's own ideas, even when different.

I may disagree with someone's ideas and opinions but that does not mean I should feel to have any right to insult them (the ideas....). This, if we think that freedom of opinions and ideas is important.

I sure can state that I disagree and even explain why, but insult someone else's different opinions ? I disagree.

Besides, when it comes to moderate a Forum like Stratics, allowing differing ideas and opinions to be insulted because the attack was not directed at an individual but to differing opinions and ideas "might" ignite the discussion and the argument derail.

So, for sake of better arguing the topics being discussed I would consider and handle insults to posters and their ideas/opinions, likewise, and protect them for freedom of expressing one's own rightfull point of view, even when not agreed with.

But that's just how I see it as......

Give it up would you? We all know you like to debate anything and everything here...and you often switch your stances at a moments notice. This leads people to think you have no idea what you are talking about at times, including myself...and your opinions on this matter only help to solidify what people think.

By definition I am not making a personal attack, but rather expressing my own opinion over your posts. To say your post is asinine does not reflect on you as a person, but rather on your post...which in itself is an entirely inanimate object. If you are taking offense to someone referring to your posts as idiotic, perhaps you should honestly consider what it is you are trying to do here...aside from having the highest postcount ever.

 

[zamot]

I say if there are fish in the water and a enough room to place a boat you should be able to place the darn thing. As for the scripting from a rowboat, come on. There is no hold, the new fish weigh 10 times more than the old fish, the scriptor would be better off fishing from shore.

I beleive once the person recalls off the rowboat they will have noway back to it.

sorry guess I should have read the whole thread.

 

[popps]

My point being every time the devs have made a change to deter scripters, it's the players it ended up hurting more, and the scripters barely felt it at all, they just keep right on scripting.

I agree with your analysis though, the need of the Developers as far as the Design of UO was concerned was, back then, to have certain ore and wood types rares and less readily available. By randomizing them rather than have them re-spawn every few minutes at precise locations, they were somewhat able to reduce at least to some degree the amount of some types or ore and wood. Sure, the non-scripters were absolutely devastated in their game play and the scripters, as you point out, found a way to still keep it up but the end result was a reduced availability (though not as reduced as the Developers might have wanted...) of certain ore and wood types as the Design needed it to be.

Most importantly, though, that example can well show how bad scripting can be and is often to a game and its correct and proper Design.
Designers put so much effort into thinking, planning and designing something not to mention coding it only to see it blown by scripters 24/7.

This is why I keep insisting that Ultima Online would be such a much better game if scripting was eradicated from it. Finally we could play accordingly to the proper Design of the game and as the game has been intended to be played and not messed up and turned inside out by scripters.

But I am convinced that in order to win the fight against scripting the hide and seek hunt is pointless. Even if with expenditure of efforts a scripter is caught and the account banned, since usually these accounts are disposable, a new account right after pops up often with different IP, different credit card info perhaps even using gametime so as not to have it linked with the scripter's main account which benefits largely from the scripted items.

No, I am convinced that the way to stop scripting is simply making the UO client(s) not compatible with third party software unless approved specifically. That is, the client(s) will automatically self-shut down when any unapproved third party software is used.
Of course it will need to be tested and fine tuned to fix any and all false positives that could shut down the UO client wrongly but personally, as a UO player I'd accept a few inadverted UO shut downs here and there if this can bring me a Ultima Online free of scripting.

Scripting is bad for the game as it screws up all plans and designs of the developers.

I'm all for rowboats being allowed in shallow watter

I do not dislike the idea per se, but I cannot help worrying about what might happen To Ultima Online in regards of so much work done by the Developers with rare fish baits, magic pies and the bonuses that they bring.

 

[popps]

I say if there are fish in the water and a enough room to place a boat you should be able to place the darn thing. As for the scripting from a rowboat, come on. There is no hold, the new fish weigh 10 times more than the old fish, the scriptor would be better off fishing from shore.

I beleive once the person recalls off the rowboat they will have noway back to it.

Just giving someone else's point of view on what scripts might be capable of, here, rather than mine which, at times, might be seen as biased....

popps, just so you'll know, scripts can do 'almost' Everything you can do in game, but faster. Weight, HP, regs checks, move tile by tile, heal, cast spells if they meet a condition. GM detection. Even make you speak depending on what is said in your presence. Complete afk monster hunter, or miner, fisher, etc. So most times you don't stop 'em , just make them modify their script.

So, I would imagine, it would not be hard to make a script which can move the boat around when tiles dry out, that can move fish as they get caught to a blue bonded beetle, that can move the boat to a specific land spot where the now full of fish scripter can land and recall off to bank or to house steps to unload all of the fish, recall back to the marked rune land spot, board the ship back and sail off for another session of fishing. This, 24/7 ..............

We can accept this or not, we have this freedom of choice.

Personally, I think that if we accept this as inevitable this could screw up so much work done by the Developers in design, ideas planning, programming with the fishmonger quests, the rare fish baits and the magic pies and all the bonuses they bring.

Why ?

Because scripting for rare fish in all those areas will make the fishing quests, the baits useless and unneeded to mass produce magic pies whose bonuses, we have been reminded by Mark of Mythic, stack.............

A scripter ashore is way more in danger and subject to the surrounding spawn while a scripter on a boat would be capable of safely script 24/7. This is why I am against giving a safe way to scripters to fish 24/7 for rare fish.

 

[Kiminality]

Let me see if I understood this well, is that perhaps that one should not maintain one's own different perspective and opinion on issues about the game other than the mainstream point of view ?

Really ?

Well, I beg to differ. I think any and all player should be rightfully entitled to have differing opinions about the game and express such differing opinions on the boards that deal about issues with such game.

Others may not agree and say that, explaining their dissent to such ideas and opinions, but I do not see why at any and all times the discussion cannot be kept as civil without either insults to any poster or their differing ideas and opinions.

But that is merely my personal point of view.

It's not like anyone's trying to say you shouldn't hold whatever opinions tickle your fancy, or that you shouldn't share them on the forums (within the rules, naturally).

However...
The way a poster conducts themselves plays a large part in how people respond to them.
Clearly, there is something in your conduct that is causing people to pounce on your posts with something pretty distant from hugs and kisses. If they're doing it to you, and not to every other poster, then there's a cause that's particular to you (it may be something outside of the forums in some cases, but I believe not in this case).
All the attention in the world from the moderators is not going to change the fact that you're attracting this attention in the first place, so it's a matter of personal responsibility - if you don't like the attention your posts are attracting, look at what it is about them, and work on that.

 

[popps]

if you don't like the attention your posts are attracting, look at what it is about them, and work on that.

I still do not understand...... I should change my views and opinions about the game to be treated "more nicely" on the boards ?

Because in my posts that "attract attention" I stick to talk about the game and nothing else. I never attack noone, never insult anyone, I simply and merely discuss about the game and my views of it. I can understand that others may think differently, but that does not mean the discussion, even in disagreement, cannot be kept as civil at all times. I do my best to do it and I do not see why others cannot also do the same.

If that is what attracts harsh treatment then what else should I understand that my views about the game should change, not because I am convinced through logic or better argumentation of the game topic being discussed, but merely not to be treated harshly.

There is a rather famous quote, I think from Voltaire which reads moreless "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....
I think freedom of opinion and the right to voice one's own opinion as important and while I agree that if one disagrees the argument should be debated and argued as much as one wants, I do not see the need nor any reason to ridicule anyone for the opinions that they may have. Definately, I cannot agree on changing my views on the game not because anyone convinced me of alternate points of views, but merely to be treated nicely and better on the boards.

No thanks.

 

[Kiminality]

I still do not understand...... I should change my views and opinions about the game to be treated "more nicely" on the boards ?

Because in my posts that "attract attention" I stick to talk about the game and nothing else. I never attack noone, never insult anyone, I simply and merely discuss about the game and my views of it. I can understand that others may think differently, but that does not mean the discussion, even in disagreement, cannot be kept as civil at all times. I do my best to do it and I do not see why others cannot also do the same.

If that is what attracts harsh treatment then what else should I understand that my views about the game should change, not because I am convinced through logic or better argumentation of the game topic being discussed, but merely not to be treated harshly.

There is a rather famous quote, I think from Voltaire which reads moreless "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....
I think freedom of opinion and the right to voice one's own opinion as important and while I agree that if one disagrees the argument should be debated and argued as much as one wants, I do not see the need nor any reason to ridicule anyone for the opinions that they may have. Definately, I cannot agree on changing my views on the game not because anyone convinced me of alternate points of views, but merely to be treated nicely and better on the boards.

No thanks.

I though

But that is merely my personal point of view.

It's not like anyone's trying to say you shouldn't hold whatever opinions tickle your fancy, or that you shouldn't share them on the forums (within the rules, naturally).[/quote]was pretty clear.

The problem is not one of your opinions, and that you share them on the forums. It really isn't.
The problem is in how you do it. How.
The way you conduct yourself on the forums provokes/invites these people to do the aforementioned pouncing.
Not what you say, but how you say it.
If you changed that, people probably wouldn't take such issue.

 

[popps]

The problem is not one of your opinions, and that you share them on the forums. It really isn't.
The problem is in how you do it. How.
The way you conduct yourself on the forums provokes/invites these people to do the aforementioned pouncing.
Not what you say, but how you say it.
If you changed that, people probably wouldn't take such issue.

Fair enough but shall we really look into it ?

Someone posted about letting rowboats into some areas.

I dissented and even explained why for clarify of my opinion.

But apparently it was wrong to express my views and concern about a proposed change to the game given the response it got ?

You say I did it wrong but what did I do wrong if all I did was merely saying that I thought it would have been wrong since it could have been exploited by scripters and I thought that as bad ??

Want another example ?

On this other thread here http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/229525-downloading-patch-approx-65-megs-pub-69-a.html I merely asked a 3 lines' question. Simply and nothing else than a simple question. Check out the response I got to it.......
I mean, now is it wrong even to simply voice a question ? What terribly wrong could I have written in a simple, thinned out 3 lines' question to "deserve" certain types of answers ??
Either one thinks to have an answer to a question (whether correct or not is here irrelevant) and provides it if they want, or they don't know an answer and do not post a reply. But other than that I do not understand....

And you come tell me that it is wrong "how" I voiced my opinion or asked a question ?

Give me a break.......

 

[Wenchkin]

I still do not understand...... I should change my views and opinions about the game to be treated "more nicely" on the boards ?

Because in my posts that "attract attention" I stick to talk about the game and nothing else. I never attack noone, never insult anyone, I simply and merely discuss about the game and my views of it. I can understand that others may think differently, but that does not mean the discussion, even in disagreement, cannot be kept as civil at all times. I do my best to do it and I do not see why others cannot also do the same.

If that is what attracts harsh treatment then what else should I understand that my views about the game should change, not because I am convinced through logic or better argumentation of the game topic being discussed, but merely not to be treated harshly.

There is a rather famous quote, I think from Voltaire which reads moreless "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....
I think freedom of opinion and the right to voice one's own opinion as important and while I agree that if one disagrees the argument should be debated and argued as much as one wants, I do not see the need nor any reason to ridicule anyone for the opinions that they may have. Definately, I cannot agree on changing my views on the game not because anyone convinced me of alternate points of views, but merely to be treated nicely and better on the boards.

No thanks.

Popps, read my last post again. Nobody wants you to change opinions. Nobody is asking you to do that. Your posting style is not the opinions you have, it's how you say things. You don't need to change what you think to be treated nicely, it's about changing the presentation of them. Very very different things.

Example
Poster 1 - Tram is for wimps that can't fight.
Poster 2 - Tram is suited to players who don't want to PvP.

Poster 1 would start a fight, Poster 2 probably wouldn't. That's an example of how the wording can make a difference to the replies you get. Without changing your opinion.

Now, I'll say it again...

Nobody is asking you to change your opinions.

Wenchy

 

[SchezwanBeefy]

There goes popps again, derailing and trolling another thread.

Your responses are idiotic and trolly.

 

[popps]

Popps, read my last post again. Nobody wants you to change opinions. Nobody is asking you to do that. Your posting style is not the opinions you have, it's how you say things. You don't need to change what you think to be treated nicely, it's about changing the presentation of them. Very very different things.

Example
Poster 1 - Tram is for wimps that can't fight.
Poster 2 - Tram is suited to players who don't want to PvP.

Poster 1 would start a fight, Poster 2 probably wouldn't. That's an example of how the wording can make a difference to the replies you get. Without changing your opinion.

Now, I'll say it again...

Nobody is asking you to change your opinions.

Wenchy

The most incredible thing is, as I feel it, my posting style is definately more in the line of Poster #2 rather than Poster #1 which makes it even more inexplicable to me understanding what you are saying......

 

[popps]

There goes popps again, derailing and trolling another thread.

Your responses are idiotic and trolly.

Uhu ????

Someone proposes a change, I merely and SIMPLY state that I disagree (which I hope is my right since I am expressing my opinion on a game issue) and explain why, I get jumped at and I have to try to defend my point of view and I should be the one in error ?

Serious ??

 

[Cailleach]

Popps, to put it bluntly, you come over as pompous and mildly abrasive in your manner of posting. That's why people jump on your posts. To be frank, I think you probably make a lot of other posters wish they could slap you til your eyeballs spin. I understand that you don't intend this, and I also understand that English is not your first language, but, whilst you've grasped the basics of communicating very well, you have yet to grasp the knack of nuance.

There's also your horrible habit of complaining that something on Stratics is broken/not there then not apologising when it turns out that it's not broken, and not saying thank you when someone else goes to the trouble of finding what you need and posting a link. That is just plain rude. We spend HOURS of our own time, unpaid, to provide the information on this website. Petra in particular works extremely hard to keep it all up to date and working. It's very hurtful indeed when someone like you comes along and can't be bothered to take the trouble to use the site properly, expect everyone else to do the finding for you and then don't even say thanks. You need to learn some manners there.

 

[popps]

It's very hurtful indeed when someone like you comes along and can't be bothered to take the trouble to use the site properly, expect everyone else to do the finding for you and then don't even say thanks. You need to learn some manners there.

Since I usually try to pay much attention to be polite and mannered in my posts, as well as thankfull at the help that others may give, could you please bring up to my attention, if you prefer in a PM not to annoy this thread any further, threads where I was asking a question which I left answers unthanked ?

Usually, I tend to say thank you in the very first post where I ask the question even before I get any answer to it. That is, it is my habit to thank even before I get an actual answer !!

If people do not feel answering questions they have the option not to. It is not mandatory that one has to answer a given question but it is a voluntary thing. Either answer them or don't. I simply do not understand when it happens that people do not answer a question but nonetheless post in an aggressive manner towards whomever has merely asked a question.

There is no reason whatsoever, IMHO, that may justify being aggressive to whomever might have simply asked a question. Do not like the question or the poster ? Do not answer to it and leave that thread alone.

That's at least as I see it.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I still do not understand...... I should change my views and opinions about the game to be treated "more nicely" on the boards ?

Because in my posts that "attract attention" I stick to talk about the game and nothing else. I never attack noone, never insult anyone, I simply and merely discuss about the game and my views of it. I can understand that others may think differently, but that does not mean the discussion, even in disagreement, cannot be kept as civil at all times. I do my best to do it and I do not see why others cannot also do the same.

If that is what attracts harsh treatment then what else should I understand that my views about the game should change, not because I am convinced through logic or better argumentation of the game topic being discussed, but merely not to be treated harshly.

There is a rather famous quote, I think from Voltaire which reads moreless "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....
I think freedom of opinion and the right to voice one's own opinion as important and while I agree that if one disagrees the argument should be debated and argued as much as one wants, I do not see the need nor any reason to ridicule anyone for the opinions that they may have. Definately, I cannot agree on changing my views on the game not because anyone convinced me of alternate points of views, but merely to be treated nicely and better on the boards.

No thanks.

Popps its not what you say - its often how you deliver it.

Which is fine. You may not get it. Or you don't take social cues well as a way to self reflect.

It really isn't so much what you say but that you say it over and over and over in different fashions.

You also don't really seem to want a solution - just a discussion.


It's like this... Youre in class and the prof says we can leave 30 minutes early if there are no questions.

Well, there is always that one graduate student that has a question, takes forever to ask it, and really doesnt want an answer. The answer is known and was already discussed by the Prof. It isn't about not understanding, its just asking to ask.


They just want to hear themselves talk.

That may or may not be you. Im just giving an example for all of us to reflect on. I am asking you to look at the style of your posting for similiarities.

I cant get anymore specific. That pretty much is it.


Try this. Write back. You dont agree or I see your point. No paragraphs, not cutting or pasting. Just three or four words.

Or better yet just ignor it. Im really no one. Fight the urge.

Rowboats in lakes would be very cool. I doubt they would unbalance bait and pies in anyway.

 

[Kas Althume]

Iam all for allowing it. Just apply the rules you have a the floating emporium. If there is no living player on the boat for 15 minutes, automatically drydock the boat and put it into the players bank box (if you allow small oldstyle boats). I dont know how rowboats work.

That way noone can block the dungeons forever. Maybe block only wind from placing boats and allow placement in the other dungeons.

PS: Krakens in Dungeons can't spit/cast so they are no hassle for any fishermen/fisherwomen.

 

[Cailleach]

Since I usually try to pay much attention to be polite and mannered in my posts, as well as thankfull at the help that others may give, could you please bring up to my attention, if you prefer in a PM not to annoy this thread any further, threads where I was asking a question which I left answers unthanked ?

Usually, I tend to say thank you in the very first post where I ask the question even before I get any answer to it. That is, it is my habit to thank even before I get an actual answer !!

If people do not feel answering questions they have the option not to. It is not mandatory that one has to answer a given question but it is a voluntary thing. Either answer them or don't. I simply do not understand when it happens that people do not answer a question but nonetheless post in an aggressive manner towards whomever has merely asked a question.

There is no reason whatsoever, IMHO, that may justify being aggressive to whomever might have simply asked a question. Do not like the question or the poster ? Do not answer to it and leave that thread alone.

That's at least as I see it.

Popps, you're going to have to take my word for it that I've seen you do that numerous times. I don't have time to go hunting through almost 10k of posts, I'm making christmas presents for neices and nephews. At present designing a butterfly to be made out of plate copper, and making a template for it. I'm afraid that takes priority over finding examples.

You're posting on a public forum in a manner liable to make folks, at the very least, grind their teeth and growl a bit. Yes, they could leave that thread alone or they could give in to being human and come lambast you a bit. Not everyone can manage the former, and not everyone gives in to the latter. I'm sure you don't realise just how annoying you can be - and, as Kas has said, a lot of the time, you ask the question for the sake of it, and you say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and, well, I'm sure you're getting the idea. If you want to change the way the world reacts to you, don't look to them first, look to yourself.

 

[Pinco]

killing scripters by luring monster is a bad thing to do... if the scripter is not away can call a gm on you, and you'll be punished...

If you see a scripter page on him and leave.

The raw boat on dungeons are a good thing, cause there are too few places for fishing in there

 

[SchezwanBeefy]

Uhu ????

Someone proposes a change, I merely and SIMPLY state that I disagree (which I hope is my right since I am expressing my opinion on a game issue) and explain why, I get jumped at and I have to try to defend my point of view and I should be the one in error ?

Serious ??

Here, let me point it out for you. This is where you derailed this thread about fishing in lakes in areas you can't go:

May I ask a question to the Stratics' Moderator, not the UO player ? Are posts with insults towards other posters considered as personal attacks ? If so, what type of wording used is considered an insult ? Are "some" insulting words tolerated to be used ? Which one ? Or do you have a zero tolerance policy as in regards to insulting words being used to try as much as possible maintain a discussion as civil and not be ignited by inappropriate words ? Thank you.

You're welcome.

PS You don't have to write another response with 15 questions.