Player vendors a Design issue : right or wrong ?

[popps]

Aside from the vendors set up within Luna Walls, most of all other player vendors have a quite harder chance of selling.

Sure, laying out runes and advertising at banks "may" help a little but the problem is that as the game currently is, there is NOT an even field between players vendors inside of Luna and outside of Luna, IMHO.

Question is, this disparity is or not a design issue ?

That is, something the Developers should address and deal with to even out the playing field among ALL players whether they may have vendors inside or outside of Luna ?

My opinion is that yes, if it is considered that of Developers' the responsibility to have the game balanced in its aspects, since player vendors appears not to be, well, then I would imagine intervention from the designers should come to even out the playing field for all those who have vendors.

How ?

Well, anyone got good ideas ?

 

[Tay M'real]

i think it ads a certain sense of having a true town where players sell their wares within a safe area where you can do your town business and get back out on the adventure.

so how did more obscure locations get business back in the Felluca days? Salesmen had to work - offer goods and services within town either directly or through gates to their locations etc...

personally - i would like to see more active interaction - the days of smith's repairing at the local forge while offering to make goods for people. or adventurers selling their magic/artifact items in town. The problem is that Luna is such a tightspace that it's a cluster..

 

[Connor_Graham]

Sure, laying out runes and advertising at banks "may" help a little but the problem is that as the game currently is, there is NOT an even field between players vendors inside of Luna and outside of Luna, IMHO.

This is so wrong I wouldn't even know where to begin. I made just as much in the past year as a well stocked vendor house in Luna with my Zento house, and this was with advertising regularly and keeping the vendors stocked daily so people could depend on me having what they wanted almost every time they showed up. Personally, I'd much rather have my house in Zento than in Luna, and have had the ability to own a Luna house several times now. Why don't you actually try merchanting before you start whining about it? I guess you must have just run out of things you can use PvP as an excuse for, even though you don't PvP, so had to attack another part of the game that you have little to no experience in.

Better yet, why don't you just play the game and forget Stratics exists? I know I'd cough a few mil up to contribute to that fund.

 

[Sarsmi]

Aside from the vendors set up within Luna Walls, most of all other player vendors have a quite harder chance of selling.

Sure, laying out runes and advertising at banks "may" help a little but the problem is that as the game currently is, there is NOT an even field between players vendors inside of Luna and outside of Luna, IMHO.

Question is, this disparity is or not a design issue ?

That is, something the Developers should address and deal with to even out the playing field among ALL players whether they may have vendors inside or outside of Luna ?

My opinion is that yes, if it is considered that of Developers' the responsibility to have the game balanced in its aspects, since player vendors appears not to be, well, then I would imagine intervention from the designers should come to even out the playing field for all those who have vendors.

How ?

Well, anyone got good ideas ?

There is a bit of disparity, I think mainly from people who use that vendor search site, since it usually only hits Luna. If you have a well run shop and stock often you will be able to get regular customers though. It takes a lot of work, and you will have to work harder than someone who just owns a Luna shop and throws things on their vendor a couple times a week.

I don't have a Luna shop, but I like the idea of their being Luna shops - somewhere where real estate has a greater value and is therefore a goal that regular players can work towards attaining.

If they did add in some kind of official shard-wide vendor search website (an idea I'm becoming fond of) that would help to even the playing field, but Luna properties will always have a much higher value than places out in the boonies.

My advice to someone wanting to sell their wares, if you can put them all on one or two vendors then rent out a (or better yet find a free) Luna vendor spot. Trying to run one or two vendors from your home isn't going to net a lot of repeat business, and it's regular customers that usually make for the best buyers.

If you have 5 or so vendors think about bumping them up to 10 by selling necessary but cheap items like repair deeds, engraving tools, etc. Things that most people won't sell because they don't make any money are a great way to get more customers into the store. Don't go overboard, if you can't stock these things regularly then it's worse than if you don't have them at all.

Label your vendors, put them behind tables with the wares they are selling displayed, keep their backpacks as tidy as possible, try to not nest bags, put down runes at least every week to get in regular customers, etc. Lots of things you can do to get regular customers, but like I said it's more work than having a Luna vendor.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

"Balance" in a game in which people compete for scarce resources is something that you will never have. Unless you make one class, one template, one race, one gender, one set of items, one type of property, etc. etc.

I think Luna was a big mistake (Zento was an attempt at the same that never caught on) because it fosters an environment that rewards cheaters. I do not think this was intended, but if you are a cheater, a scripter, a duper, whatever, and you have wares to sell, Luna makes it all too easy to get top value for these ill gotten goods.

There are those that will disagree, but I liked things better when vendor houses were more scattered and random, and not clogged together in one overpriced place.

But don't think that the devs should "balance" this aspect of the game. What comes after that? Everyone gets an 18x18? Then some plots are closer to towns than others, and some are not blocked on one side, and some are...you can't make everything equitable in this game...just like real life.

Just say NO to UO Socialism!!

 

[Storm]

The only answer I can see is if EA decided to provide a search method for searching all vendors per shard and this wont happen it would require alot of dedicated resources like servers etc....

 

[MalagAste]

I can't see much end to it... but as many have posted I blame the Search vendor sites. Personally I never use those really.

I prefer to just go shopping... typically if I'm looking for something very particular like say... white plants... I know exactly who sells them.

However if I'm looking for that perfect ring or pair of sleeves to complete a suit then I may want a to do a search if there was a legal one. I'd prefer one by EA that encompassed all the vendors on a shard or even a server but that's not bloody likely now is it?

So I trod off and search vendors on my own... starting with those in my books dropping out any runes that no longer exist and getting new ones for spots near old ones.

 

[XLaCeDX]

The real problem is rental vendors.

Getting rid of rental vendors would solve the Luna City Vendor House vs outside Luna City Vendor issue because EVERYONE wanting to operate a vendor would have to do it from their OWN house, where ever that might be, and odds are it won't be inside Luna City Walls since for instance on Pacific the same group of 2-3 people owns about 12 Luna City vendor houses.

Getting rid of rental vendors would also mean...

Dupers/scripters must sell from their own house making them easier to catch...

No more OSI owned Idocs due to rental vendor issues.

Rental Vendor needs to run away with Crystal Tiles while riding atop a 3D uni carrying with them all the bod books in the land...(all things I currently feel UO would be better off without).

 

[Wilde1]

I disagree with the OP.

While i shop at luna (and have a couple vendors there), I ALSO bookmark vendors out of the city limits and visit them regularly. You know what... very few keep their vendors stocked and up to date, or keep their vendors up for very long. In Luna this isn't an issue...your Luna vendor is empty or your prices are too high, chances are I'll never click on it. A bad Luna vendor doesn't waste my time (because of the search engine sites), an out of town vendor can.

I will happily give out of town vendors first shot at my business, but they have to run a consistent shop. Those 5-6 shops on LS that run a good business keep me browsing weekly (to see what they've put up on their rares vendors), and they're my first stop for craftables like GM instruments or stone furniture (because I know they keep em stocked).

As far as design goes...working as intended, IMO.

 

[popps]

I made just as much in the past year as a well stocked vendor house in Luna with my Zento house, and this was with advertising regularly and keeping the vendors stocked daily so people could depend on me having what they wanted almost every time they showed up.

Well, but in the end, if you had had a vendor house within Luna Walls, do you think you would have had to spend so much of your time to advertise your sales ?

My point is, that those players not within Luna Walls with their vendors ARE at a gross disadvantage and "if" they want to try to cover this disadvantage at least in part, they need to overstretch and spend part of their gaming time which could be used elsewhere, just to "catch up" what Luna vendors players have no need to do.

"This" is the "design" issue I see here.

Having 2 sets of players not evenly able to deal with their sales.

Those inside Luna can go play their game, those outside Luna Walls with their vendors have to spend, sometimes a considerable part of their gaming time, to cover up for the difference if they want to sell.......

To me, it sure looks like a design issue to be addressed somehow......

 

[popps]

but like I said it's more work than having a Luna vendor.

That's my point and therefore, IMHO, a design issue that needs be addressed to even out the field again.........

 

[popps]

I think Luna was a big mistake (Zento was an attempt at the same that never caught on) because it fosters an environment that rewards cheaters. I do not think this was intended, but if you are a cheater, a scripter, a duper, whatever, and you have wares to sell, Luna makes it all too easy to get top value for these ill gotten goods.

There are those that will disagree, but I liked things better when vendor houses were more scattered and random, and not clogged together in one overpriced place.

Then why not just terminate the Luna vending ability outright ?

Leave the houses within walls, if necessary, but simply make them banned of player vendors.

And I go even farther, I say not only ban player vendors within town walls, but also for a good radius outside of town walls.

That is, make a design changes that forces only houses scattered around the wilderness be able to host player vendors.........

But don't think that the devs should "balance" this aspect of the game. What comes after that? Everyone gets an 18x18? Then some plots are closer to towns than others, and some are not blocked on one side, and some are...you can't make everything equitable in this game...just like real life.

Just say NO to UO Socialism!!

What is wrong with evening out inbalances ?

Why should some players not having player vendors in Luna have to spend considerable part of their gaming time only to get the same results as those who happen to players vendors in Luna ?

It is only fair to balance the field of players' vendors for all players, IMHO.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Let me bring to the table how EverQuest solved this issue and it, in my opinion is an excellent solution.

They created a zone called the Bazaar.

This zone had a bank, a few NPC Merchants and a LOT of PC Vendor Space.

You bought Vendor Bags for a nominal amount, put your stuff in the bags (8 bags of 10 items each), set a price and entered Vendor Mode.

You could do the same thing and through an Item List, pick items you wanted to buy and set a price you were willing to pay. This could (although I never used this feature) have the payment be in items and / or currency.

Now then a person could enter the zone and pull up one of two search windows. Either the Vendor Search or the Buyer Search.

You could select the Vendor / Buyer you wanted to buy from / sell to and a glowing ethereal light stream would show you how to get to that Vendor / Buyer. You got there and transacted your business.

For UO it may not need to be that elaborate. Although I do believe a convenient means to the Vendor / Buyer would be advisable given the apparent number of them.

The Bags could be the venerable Vendor Contracts and you find an empty spot that is legitimate, stand on the spot and dbl click the contract. The game can implement pretty much the existing rules, I think.

Then just implement the search windows and the location mechanism and your good to go.

 

[Sarsmi]

but like I said it's more work than having a Luna vendor.

That's my point and therefore, IMHO, a design issue that needs be addressed to even out the field again.........

I don't know. It's a disadvantage to not own a castle if you need the storage, a disadvantage to not have a tamer character in some situations, etc. It gives people a reason to work harder, if they want to better their situation. I'm kind of on the fence. Probably I would personally be happy with an EA run auction/vendor browsing site. That would get people out of Luna.

There are definitely pro's and con's to having a Luna vendor, you shouldn't just be focusing on the one facet of having Luna vendors, easy customers. From running a merchant for years (and doing IDOCs) I have the money I would need to buy a luna house if I wanted one. However all that sandstone makes me want to claw my eyes out, and I'd hate to give up the nice storage I have. I really like having my vendor house near Yew, it's just prettier and it makes me feel good that customers make the visit to my shop instead of me being on the Luna racetrack. My vendor house is a keep - so I can have more vendors, more storage, more area for deco, etc etc. I value what I have now higher than what I would have in Luna. *shrugs*

 

[UOKaiser]

Well, but in the end, if you had had a vendor house within Luna Walls, do you think you would have had to spend so much of your time to advertise your sales ?

My point is, that those players not within Luna Walls with their vendors ARE at a gross disadvantage and "if" they want to try to cover this disadvantage at least in part, they need to overstretch and spend part of their gaming time which could be used elsewhere, just to "catch up" what Luna vendors players have no need to do.

"This" is the "design" issue I see here.

Having 2 sets of players not evenly able to deal with their sales.

Those inside Luna can go play their game, those outside Luna Walls with their vendors have to spend, sometimes a considerable part of their gaming time, to cover up for the difference if they want to sell.......

To me, it sure looks like a design issue to be addressed somehow......

Dont need to spend so much time they can compete as much as they like if all they want is sell there goods.. Either get a vender in luna for a little rental fee that with the hiked prices will easily coover there expenses or sell cheaper than luna.

Matter of fact any vender that sell cheaper than luna any resources or in demand items well send me a message nd I will buy all there stock. They can make them self rich from me if they have products for me to resell.

If there selling at luna prices and live in the land that time forgot well then advertising is the least of there problems.

 

[Zodia]

Anyone saying that EA can't make their own web vendor search function is crazy. They could easily do it, with a little devotion of resources. I love the Luna/Zento vendor search sites and use them everyday because they are good for the game -- they promote a free market (albeit within Luna/Zento only) and give me tools for pricing and buying at a fair price. Best thing EA could do for UO's economy is make their own vendor search auction house. Just like with UOA and UOautomap, when players need something that EA won't give them, they make their own.

And popps is mostly right about the disparity. And others are also right that if you market your non-Luna/Zento vendor properly, it can be a success. But it does take more effort than a Luna/Zento vendor -- hence the disparity.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

This is so wrong I wouldn't even know where to begin. I made just as much in the past year as a well stocked vendor house in Luna with my Zento house, and this was with advertising regularly and keeping the vendors stocked daily so people could depend on me having what they wanted almost every time they showed up. Personally, I'd much rather have my house in Zento than in Luna, and have had the ability to own a Luna house several times now. Why don't you actually try merchanting before you start whining about it? I guess you must have just run out of things you can use PvP as an excuse for, even though you don't PvP, so had to attack another part of the game that you have little to no experience in.

Better yet, why don't you just play the game and forget Stratics exists? I know I'd cough a few mil up to contribute to that fund.

Yup,what he said.

It all boils down to how bad you wanna sell your stuff. If ya just want to throw it on there and wait well..... good luck. I make plenty of gold selling from my Tokuno house thats way off the beaten path. Also,Connor hit the nail on the head about keeping your vendor stocked at all times. Peaple hate comming to a empty vendor or a seldom stocked one.If you have one,you need to keep it well stocked so peaple can count on you,otherwise you will not get return buisness or good references.

Its not hard to lure peaple from Luna,keep it stocked,keep it cheaper and don`t stop advertising.

 

[Kiminality]

Here's an idea.
1.) Get together with a few like-minded people.
2.) Purchase houses in an area, preferably near a moongate, or otherwise safe and accessible.
3.) Set up vendors in these houses, stock them well, and price competitively.

An example of this would be "Umbra Road" on Europa.
It's not Luna, but it's a very successful area for vendors, with houses in the area in quite high demand.
Yes, Luna has the advantage with more room, moongate and indexing sites. But people will still visit an area like that, if they can't find what they're looking for in Luna, or hate Luna, or are just browsing.

 

[Serafi]

Aside from the vendors set up within Luna Walls, most of all other player vendors have a quite harder chance of selling.

Sure, laying out runes and advertising at banks "may" help a little but the problem is that as the game currently is, there is NOT an even field between players vendors inside of Luna and outside of Luna, IMHO.

Question is, this disparity is or not a design issue ?

No, it`s a player issue. The player setting up vendors in a remote place and just expect to be handed a pile of customers, even when those vendors are empty. Then I see them post here on the boards complaining that "vendors are dead" , "crafting is dead" etc. And now this. Disparity? Yes. But that doesn`t mean that it`s something the developers should adress. If you want to run a shop - then MAKE that choice. If you just want to sell off a few things there are trade boards here on stratics for that.

Yes, it`s more work running a shop outside Luna as you need to gate and/or drop runes. But that doesn`t mean you will have a "harder time selling". Those two markets work differently, and has to be approached differently as well.

I enjoy both the quick stop and shop in Luna, and the remote places. I like to find new shops in new places. The main problem is, at least on Europa - most of these shops do not stay long. That is not due to the lack of customer base, but due to lack of interest/time in the one running it. People underestimate the time required to stock regurlarly. NOT gate/drop runes - but to make sure every vendor is stocked at all times so you get returning customers. See, that is where the real time sink is.

 

[MalagAste]

The real problem is rental vendors.

Getting rid of rental vendors would solve the Luna City Vendor House vs outside Luna City Vendor issue because EVERYONE wanting to operate a vendor would have to do it from their OWN house, where ever that might be, and odds are it won't be inside Luna City Walls since for instance on Pacific the same group of 2-3 people owns about 12 Luna City vendor houses.

Getting rid of rental vendors would also mean...

Dupers/scripters must sell from their own house making them easier to catch...

No more OSI owned Idocs due to rental vendor issues.

Rental Vendor needs to run away with Crystal Tiles while riding atop a 3D uni carrying with them all the bod books in the land...(all things I currently feel UO would be better off without).

This especially the bolded part is THE most sensible thing I think anyone has EVER suggested...

 

[Voluptuous]

I've a tiny laughable in lockdowns 7 vendor shop in Zento. I try my hardest to keep it stocked. I've many a person telling me I'm the best shop in the shard...and I contribute this to the fact I restock, don't let things sit too long and mix it up a lot. So much for Luna.

If you give time to researching your prices, keeping them a little cheaper than luna, keeping yourself restocked, and dropping runes to it regular...word gets out and you make more than a luna shop ever would.

One of the largest shops in Luna i noticed...has the SAME stuff (60-75%) sitting there for months and MONTHS. I rarely have an item sit longer than say 2-3 weeks.

 

[Connor_Graham]

My point is, that those players not within Luna Walls with their vendors ARE at a gross disadvantage and "if" they want to try to cover this disadvantage at least in part, they need to overstretch and spend part of their gaming time which could be used elsewhere, just to "catch up" what Luna vendors players have no need to do.

You sure do use a lot of "gross disadvantage", "overstretch", and other phrases to make it seem like there's a whole lot of time spent marking runes and dropping them. Too bad for you it only takes a grand total of 10 minutes to mark 45 runes and drop them all over Sosaria. That's sure a "gross disadvantage" to have to "overstretch" to make up a whole 10 minutes.

You really need to get off this communism kick you're on. It's getting old.

 

[popps]

No, it`s a player issue. The player setting up vendors in a remote place and just expect to be handed a pile of customers, even when those vendors are empty.

Excuse me ?

Don't all players pay the same for their monthly subscription ?

Therefore, the way I see it, whether a player has or not a house withing Luna walls ALL players should be able to evenly be able to sell their wares with the same time dedicated to the effort.

Unfortunately, at least to my opinion, this is not the case.

Not having a house within Luna Walls set up with players' vendors can mean quite more an effort to try to sell one's own wares.....

Yet, the subscription monthly fee paid by all players regardless where they have their vendors' house in UO is the same.......

Same money but different chances to sell with their players' vendors....

Quite a disparity and definately a design issue that needs being addressed, IMHO.

 

[Connor_Graham]

But it does take more effort than a Luna/Zento vendor -- hence the disparity.

A whole 10 minutes of time to mark and drop runes. Yep. Huge disparity there.

 

[popps]

You sure do use a lot of "gross disadvantage", "overstretch", and other phrases to make it seem like there's a whole lot of time spent marking runes and dropping them. Too bad for you it only takes a grand total of 10 minutes to mark 45 runes and drop them all over Sosaria. That's sure a "gross disadvantage" to have to "overstretch" to make up a whole 10 minutes.

You really need to get off this communism kick you're on. It's getting old.

The marking and dropping of runes is not the issue.

A lot of players find Luna convenient because they can "pin point" what they need with a blink of an eye search and just disdain bothering with spending time looking elsewhere.

This creates a loss for "out of Luna Walls" shops which, "if" they want to have players bother with them, MUST be exceptionally stocked, with much better pricing and a whole lot of extra selling attentions which are simply not necessary with Luna.

It is NOT the marking and dropping of runes which is the issue here, IMHO, it is ALL OF THE REST which needs be done to attract buyers in "out of the way" vending houses which CAN be very, really VERY time consuming.........

And makes the issue become a design issue for gross inbalancing among players all paying the same subscription amount, monthly........

 

[MissEcho]

There is absolutely NO disparity, there is NO unfair advantage.

To get my place in Luna I ran a vendor shop in the wilds of Malas, then in Zento, then in Zento while maintaining a few rental vendors in Luna, until I made enough money to 'buy' in Luna.

It is called free enterprize and working hard to 'achieve' the goals you set.

I paid 54 million for my Luna place, as opposed to the person in the 'outskirts' who only payed 187k. There is a marked disparity in THAT figure.

Before you say 'but I don't have 54 million so it's not fair ..........blah blah blah, and the illegal product search sites don't cover my 'outskirt' place so its not fair................. blah blah blah, and I shouldn't need to work for three yrs maintaining a shop on the outskirts 'just' to be able to afford a Luna shop so it's not fair........... blah blah blah.......... think about this:

YOU and ANY OTHER PLAYER, if you/they think it is such a disadvantage, has the option to place a rental vendor in Luna and make up any so called 'disparity'. On my shard, and I suspect on pretty much any shard you can get a 'rental' vendor in Luna for anywhere from 10k per week up, obviously the larger shards will charge a bit more (The prices will scale accordingly depending on what shard you are on), but even the PRIME vendor spots in Luna on my shard are only 100k per week. And guess what? On the price I paid for my vendor shop (54mil) that is the equivalent of 540 weeks rental. Ie 10 yrs rental paid on a single vendor or sheesh have 4 vendors paid up for 2.5 yrs each or ....... wait for it......... egads *throws hands in air*..... 10 vendors paid up for a yr!

I am so tired of all this 'it's not fair' rubbish, when anyone with a tiny bit of gumption will see there is more than one way to achieve the same result if you think outside the square even a teeny-winsy bit.

In MY humble opinion, the playing field is level, you just can't see it or want it so easy I have no idea why you would even play a game where a little brain power is all you need to compete.

 

[Tina Small]

I wouldn't mind a "legal" shard-wide search site. However, I don't think there's any need to get rid of Luna. It works for people who want to find something quickly and, in general, pay a premium for the convenience. Folks who are willing to go out of their way a bit can generally count on paying a lower price. Most of the time, I kind of like the trade-off.

 

[the 4th man]

Luna's not all it's cracked up to be. It has the benefit of being a mall, and if you're hard up, you'll pay a jacked up price.

Look at the player who don't know about the site(s) where you can search for stuff. Someone strolls into Luna, and casually goes from shop to shop.

There's probably more empty vendors and false advertised sellers than full or legit. I used to shop by sign post, until the searching got just plain fruitless.

Without the web sites to show what's there, Luna wouldn't get the business it gets. I still have rune books for the sellers out in the boonies too.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Use the Bulletin board system for players to link their vendors into a centralized database. House Bulletin Boards would have a separate access for owners that allows them to link their vendors and wares, and for house visitors that use the bulletin boards or the ones in the towns would have a searchable database showing the items for sale, the price, name of the vendor and coordinate location. You would still have to travel out to the vendor in question, however, it would allow for a greater level of real competition and control of prices due to said competition.

Yeah, I know, I COULD spend every day spamming the banks, littering the moongates and so on, but unfortunately, that's a little difficult to do when you're out of town on business trips in real life every other week for 3 months (I got lucky with ToT 3 simply due to a small respite in the show schedule.

And it's not that I don't have the stuff to sell, it's 1. the lack of time to sell it via the current system and 2. the lack of time to keep a continuous stock to keep a customer supply. Under a more centralized system like above, I could stock and sell when feasible, beat the Luna markup and give people some good deals... as it is now, it's simply not feasible... at least not in the sense of being a GAME or HOBBY... and I can't quit a job that pays the real life bills for a virtual job for virtual coin.

It was kind of cool "back in the day"... not anymore though... thus I continue to hoard and nothing gets sold... so I may not have a lot of gold... but sellable items... yeah I got those.

 

[sayler04]

Where do you shop in rl?

When I have money to burn and am willing to pay for convenience, I shop at the mall, with its great location, ample parking and one-stop-shopping advantage.

When I'm poor, I usually shop at the off-the-beaten-path places. It might take longer to find what I want, but it usually costs less and is a far more personal experience.

So, is this a design flaw in life? And who do we talk to to fix it?

Just like in RL, the people that have been most successful, either by honest or devious means, in UO can afford the costly prime property in Luna, and it would be unfair to deny them the advantage. Moreover, banning vendor rentals would only have the effect of preventing less-than-wealthy players from having even ONE vendor in a prime location. Sure, it would screw the scripters, but it would also screw a whole hell of a lot of honest hardworking players in the process.

The fact is, everybody wants an easy button. But is making things harder on people who have already worked hard really going to make things easier for anybody, or are we just the teeniest bit bitter??

 

[Kiminality]

I'm changing ISPs in a couple days, so it doesn't matter if I get banned or whatever. With that in mind I just want to say that popps is a ****ing crybaby **** who needs to shut the **** up and quit ***goting up this forum with tears about how "imbalanced" everything that he doesn't have is.

**** off you ****ing ***** ass dip**** pancake.

"I have a sense of immunity, so I'm going to be an internet tough guy"
Grow a backbone, then learn to speak your mind in such a way as to not risk moderation.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Aside from the vendors set up within Luna Walls, most of all other player vendors have a quite harder chance of selling.

Sure, laying out runes and advertising at banks "may" help a little but the problem is that as the game currently is, there is NOT an even field between players vendors inside of Luna and outside of Luna, IMHO.

Question is, this disparity is or not a design issue ?

That is, something the Developers should address and deal with to even out the playing field among ALL players whether they may have vendors inside or outside of Luna ?

My opinion is that yes, if it is considered that of Developers' the responsibility to have the game balanced in its aspects, since player vendors appears not to be, well, then I would imagine intervention from the designers should come to even out the playing field for all those who have vendors.

How ?

Well, anyone got good ideas ?

Wow Popps, another issue with the game already?

In any case, on Catskills my vendor does very well and it's not in luna. The vendors in luna I barely use. There are 3 I visit, one is Grimace Killer, the other is the house nearby that has golem kits (Yes I'm a lazy tinker), and the 3rd is one of the PS vendors, can't remember the name but I know the spot and they generally have a good selection. Other than those 3 I don't waste my time on vendors in Luna. Most of my shopping however is done at IDOC pirates mall or the Butterfly mall these are no where near luna and both get far more of my money than luna does lol.

My issue with luna is there are to many vendors, and most of them have utter garbage for sale at outrageous prices. Simply a waste of time to me and gold to me.

How you see the luna Vendors having an advantage over non luna vendors boggles my mind considering the majority of my gold goes to non luna vendors. Same for my wife. Her vendors and my vendors make a killing and where not in Luna. The Orken Man on luna has been trying to rent out spots for his house in luna for a good while now with no success, so now he's trying to sale it.

What it boils down to is how well are the vendors stocked, do they have things you need or want and are they regularly restocked. Location is the lowest priority.

So............ thats my 2 cents at least. See you on your next rant Popps!!

 

[Voluptuous]

I dunno...spend a 100+ mil on a luna shop...or MAKE a 100+ mil in a little 13x13 I placed myself in Zento. Hmm. I don't care how many people use the bad too horrible to mention site to scan for your wares or how many people zoom by your shop...that's a LOT of gold to make up for the cost of the shop. If you are selling lava tiles and replicas...then trust me, you could be in the center of trinsic jungle people WILL come lookie if you put out the runes. It's all a matter of are you stocking what's currently hot or always desirable at a good price?

If you stock crap or expect 3x it's worth...it's not gonna matter where you are either. Cept maybe hurt a little if you shelled out for a luna spot.

 

[popps]

Without the web sites to show what's there, Luna wouldn't get the business it gets. I still have rune books for the sellers out in the boonies too.

Precisely, IMHO, and that is what gets the issue a Design issue, the way I see it, which needs to be addressed by Developers somehow and, the sooner the better........

 

[popps]

Where do you shop in rl?

When I have money to burn and am willing to pay for convenience, I shop at the mall, with its great location, ample parking and one-stop-shopping advantage.

When I'm poor, I usually shop at the off-the-beaten-path places. It might take longer to find what I want, but it usually costs less and is a far more personal experience.

So, is this a design flaw in life? And who do we talk to to fix it?

City Hall, perhaps, which decides which City planning they want to have for the city they administer (businesses included......) ?

And who is City Hall in an online multiplayer game if not the Developers ?

 

[Demonous]

Aside from the vendors set up within Luna Walls, most of all other player vendors have a quite harder chance of selling.

Sure, laying out runes and advertising at banks "may" help a little but the problem is that as the game currently is, there is NOT an even field between players vendors inside of Luna and outside of Luna, IMHO.

Question is, this disparity is or not a design issue ?

That is, something the Developers should address and deal with to even out the playing field among ALL players whether they may have vendors inside or outside of Luna ?

My opinion is that yes, if it is considered that of Developers' the responsibility to have the game balanced in its aspects, since player vendors appears not to be, well, then I would imagine intervention from the designers should come to even out the playing field for all those who have vendors.

How ?

Well, anyone got good ideas ?

its not really a problem, people know they need to rent vendors inside luna

 

[popps]

Wow Popps, another issue with the game already?

What can I say, I love the game and when I see areas that could use some developers' love I cannot help not talking about it...........

What it boils down to is how well are the vendors stocked, do they have things you need or want and are they regularly restocked. Location is the lowest priority.

Well, that is the point, I think......
Stocking up vendors well and in general the whole "out of the way" vendor house maintained attractive to perspective buyers takes time, sometimes also a whole lot of it.

The Luna places, instead, because of the location and of the convenient fast search do not need this "extra work" to attract their customers.

Therefore, they require much less maintainance work, the way I see it, to get their sales done AND, they get more revenues on top of that.

Given that ALL players still pay the same monthly subscription fee, I see this inbalance as not right and something which design should tackle with.

That is, we have players paying the same money for the game but a minority with vendors inside of Luna and a vast majority outside of Luna but those with vendors outside Luna must work much more and make less revenue in the end because of a design issue.....

Not quite right, IMHO.

At least, so I think.

So............ thats my 2 cents at least. See you on your next rant Popps!!

You are very welcome

 

[Demonous]

I dunno...spend a 100+ mil on a luna shop...or MAKE a 100+ mil in a little 13x13 I placed myself in Zento. Hmm. I don't care how many people use the bad too horrible to mention site to scan for your wares or how many people zoom by your shop...that's a LOT of gold to make up for the cost of the shop. If you are selling lava tiles and replicas...then trust me, you could be in the center of trinsic jungle people WILL come lookie if you put out the runes. It's all a matter of are you stocking what's currently hot or always desirable at a good price?

If you stock crap or expect 3x it's worth...it's not gonna matter where you are either. Cept maybe hurt a little if you shelled out for a luna spot.

im not sure what shard you play on but 100 mil is peanuts, on chesapeake you need to spend a minimum of 500 mil to get a luna vendor mall

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

It takes significantly more amount of time and work to keep a first class Non-Luna Mall going. I am not talking about just you running your own vendors but also having other people rent from you. It -is- possible but usually calls upon heavy gating and very high level of stocking.

I think it makes sense that Luna is easier, etc. However, I do believe that the disparity is quite large, especially due to ILLEGAL search scripts. This has made it very difficult to run a high end non-Luna mall (and I include the immediate surrounding areas as Luna).

My suggestion, as always, would be to somehow introduce a sliding fee for vendor fees, with Luna being the highest and a vendor somewhere in timbaktu being the lowest. Even a very reasonable 20% difference in the fee structure would be okay. This would go a long way in leveling the playing field. Luna would still remain popular, but people who are willing to put in the work will also be able to compete as now they will have an answer to the question, "Why should I rent in your non-searched non-Luna mall, instead of just stocking my Luna vendor?"

Anyways, things change with time and who knows, some day Luna will face a downturn as well.

 

[Coppelia]

Well, but in the end, if you had had a vendor house within Luna Walls, do you think you would have had to spend so much of your time to advertise your sales ?

Time to advertize versus time to get a spot in Luna? You have the choice.

Here's an idea.
1.) Get together with a few like-minded people.
2.) Purchase houses in an area, preferably near a moongate, or otherwise safe and accessible.
3.) Set up vendors in these houses, stock them well, and price competitively.

An example of this would be "Umbra Road" on Europa.
It's not Luna, but it's a very successful area for vendors, with houses in the area in quite high demand.
Yes, Luna has the advantage with more room, moongate and indexing sites. But people will still visit an area like that, if they can't find what they're looking for in Luna, or hate Luna, or are just browsing.

Exactly, Luna is emptying and I always find what I need on Umbra road.



Popps, it's really strange how you can throw stupid lines like "we pay the same subscription". As if vendor spots in Luna were falling from the sky and given to some privileged players. You're saying that players are all paying the same subscription, and it's ok that they don't have the same stuff but it's not ok than they don't have the same housing spot.

Stop being so jealous and inactive. Act.

 

[popps]

Popps, it's really strange how you can throw stupid lines like "we pay the same subscription". As if vendor spots in Luna were falling from the sky and given to some privileged players. You're saying that players are all paying the same subscription, and it's ok that they don't have the same stuff but it's not ok than they don't have the same housing spot.

Well, to the game owners (and to the Developers who are their employees...) all players are equal since they all pay the same subscription fees.

Therefore, all players should be entitled to enjoy their game on a similar basis given that they pay the same monthly fee.

Currently, as I see it, not all players wanting to run vendors are on a same evened out basis. Those outside Luna either have to spend a whole lot of their gaming time to attend those vendors, quite more than their fellow players with vendors in Luna, or they most likely will see their vending facility fail.

This is quite a Design issue, IMHO, and one needing developers' attention and the sooner the better, finding a good solution that would make all players capable to enjoy their monthly fee, playing vendors, equally putting time into attending them.......

Stop being so jealous and inactive. Act.

For the record, I do not have neither vendors nor a vending House. Not in Lune nor outside.

Can people please stop assuming that I raise game issues for a Personal Agenda ?

Is it so difficult to see that I may raise issues merely for the overall better sake of the game, regardless of what my playing status may be ?
Thanks.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well, to the game owners (and to the Developers who are their employees...) all players are equal since they all pay the same subscription fees.

Wait, I think you are missing a key point.

Everyone in the game is "equal" to a point, but what individual players choose to do with their in game resources will vary.

For example, some players may choose to spend millions of dollars on ML hair dyes for their characters...to others, this is a colossal waste of funds.

Some choose to save up and by Luna houses, to others, this is a colossal waste of funds.

Luna houses are in game resources, just like armor, hair dyes, rares, etc. What you, or I, or anyone else chooses to spend our resources on is up to us, and that is really the only fair way to go about it.

 

[popps]

Wait, I think you are missing a key point.

Everyone in the game is "equal" to a point, but what individual players choose to do with their in game resources will vary.

For example, some players may choose to spend millions of dollars on ML hair dyes for their characters...to others, this is a colossal waste of funds.

Some choose to save up and by Luna houses, to others, this is a colossal waste of funds.

Luna houses are in game resources, just like armor, hair dyes, rares, etc. What you, or I, or anyone else chooses to spend our resources on is up to us, and that is really the only fair way to go about it.

Well, to my thinking, there is a flaw in that reasoning.

What you argue can be shared as long as some players' playing does not hurt and interfere with other players' playing which, to my eyes, happens precisely with Luna vending houses versus non Luna vending Houses.

The fact that there is Luna and that it works as it works hurts those players playing their vending houses elsewhere (if they want to really play vendors they have to go out of their way and spend unusual amount of their allocated gaming time attending them versus those in Luna) even though all of these players pay the same monthly fee.

To me, this is a design issue, a mulfunctioning of the game design that is, that should not be overseen by the developers for the better sake of the game and to allow all players to equally enjoy their monthly fees whether they may or not run vending houses inside or outside of Luna.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well, I mean, you are treading a slippery slope there.

Luna properties, like anything else in game, have a value. If I so desired, I could purchase a Luna property. I don't want to deal with it though.

There are several items in game that are more valuable than others. My Sorcerer's Suit, for example, costs more than some houses. The point is, I made a CHOICE to pay for that suit, same as these people made a choice to pay for these plots.

Now, I will be the first to say...F LUNA! But not because I feel there is some Marxist inequity I need to get upset about...but because Luna = cheater market.

Beyond that, I could not care less about Luna.

 

[Coppelia]

Popps, equality upon subscription fee only means equal access to the game. And that's the case here. It's not about what you want. Some people solo Paragon Balrons. I want that too! But of course, I won't do anything more to do it, devs should allow me as I am to do it.
That's stupid, and moaning about the difference between a housing spot in Luna and elsewhere is the same.

Every player has the possibility to get the best vendor spots. Not just by wanting, but by taking the time to get it.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Not to mention, Luna house lack curb appeal.

 

[popps]

Popps, equality upon subscription fee only means equal access to the game. And that's the case here. It's not about what you want. Some people solo Paragon Balrons. I want that too! But of course, I won't do anything more to do it, devs should allow me as I am to do it.
That's stupid, and moaning about the difference between a housing spot in Luna and elsewhere is the same.

Every player has the possibility to get the best vendor spots. Not just by wanting, but by taking the time to get it.

I need to dissent.

When a player's playing hurts another player's playing as running Luna vendors as it goes, hurts other players wanting to run vendors, then it does become Design issue, IMHO.

And not every player has the possibility to get a vending house inside Luna for the simple issue that the number of lots by far is inferior to the number of players playing the game.....

On the contrary, "if" the developers fixed this design issue and made ALL houses, regardless where they may be, equally capable of being run for vendors given the same amount of gaming time allocated by their owners to run them, then yes, all players would equally be able to run their vending facilities regardless of where they are in return for their equal monthly subscription fee.

Bottom line is, that the issue needs developers' intervention, IMHO.

 

[Coppelia]

You are still taking the housing spot issue apart from the rest of the game.
Of course there's a limited number of house in Luna, like a lot of things in UO. But they are still available. There's turnover in Luna. For a lot of them, it's just a matter of giving a price. For rare others, there are IDOCs (sometimes when bans went right).
On the other side, there are rares that are no longer available. Frankly I find it more unfair that Vanguard mounts aren't available anymore, even if I already have mine.

About hurting... you assume too much IMO. Nobody's hurt. Everybody has to choose between tedious advertising through runes and an easy spot to get or a very difficult spot to get and a very easy almost automatic advertising.
I don't know where you get that players are hurt from, but it's wrong.
I think that there's obviously more players with Luna vendors that are hurt by the reputation.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Well, that is the point, I think......
Stocking up vendors well and in general the whole "out of the way" vendor house maintained attractive to perspective buyers takes time, sometimes also a whole lot of it.

EVERY vendor house owner has to stock their vendors, even the ones in Luna. If your vendor is empty 99% of the time, it will be passed by even in the oh so notorious Luna.

The Luna places, instead, because of the location and of the convenient fast search do not need this "extra work" to attract their customers.

The ONLY extra work a non Luna house owner has to do is mark runes and drop them. Yeah, that whole 10 minutes is a game breaking deal there....

Therefore, they require much less maintainance work, the way I see it, to get their sales done

EVERY vendor house owner has to stock vendors, at least the ones that want repeat business do. There is no less or more "work" to be done.

AND, they get more revenues on top of that.

No, they don't. I've made 500 mil in the backwoods of Malas just as I made 500 mil with a Luna vendor, just like I've made 500 mil with a house in Zento. Location doesn't have anything to do with success, the house owner does.


Really, you need to stop using the same tired excuses with every single thread you create. People are starting to catch on.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Bottom line is, that the issue needs developers' intervention, IMHO.

Your issue needs a tissue, IMHO.


That and you could use a visit from the Good Humor man. I hear they've got nice white padded walls back at the Lollipop Hotel, and even give you fancy white dinner jackets to wear....