F
Flora Green
Guest
The media is why we are in this mess. There is no logical reason why Obama is the candidate. *tiptoes out*
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F
Flora Green
Guest
*tiptoes back in*
That The Firm avatar is too cool!
*back out to stay off of Kelmo's bad side
*
That The Firm avatar is too cool!
*back out to stay off of Kelmo's bad side
*
T
Trep
Guest
4 more wars!
4 more wars!
go McCain!
4 more wars!
go McCain!
M
Mogluk
Guest
how do you know he is getting max productivity when you are determining for him the minimum value that he can hold his employees to....
your position is about equitable distribution of wealth... you are taking incentive out of the picture you are placing the onus on the government to make things right. Where as we as individuals should be the impetus towards making or financial standing better. Anyone who thinks that they are supposed to live off minimum wage for ever is the same person fighting for socialist programs.
I am not for making the rich richer, what I am for is rewarding individual effort. If your poor you should be making yourself a better employee (education, training, negotiation or if that fails quit and find someone who will pay you what you think your worth). I am against the Gov't stepping in and saying you need to pay this guy XX$ per day.
and if you continue to hike the minimum wage for inflataion you actually increase the bottom value of basic products and devalue middle income jobs and small business. the minimum wage was never meant to be your career, it was meant to be the place to start and then to move upward.
please tell me you believe a human in the U.S.A. is only worth $5.35 an hour. No lets go further then this you would like to exploit people with no education, limited intelligence, or no support such as family.
Empathy try it sometime.
Empathy try it sometime.
kelmo
Old and in the way
Professional
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
This!
M
Mogluk
Guest
okay lets approach your faulty reasoning:
1. exploit : how so? am I forcing them to work? are they slaves? no I am saying that they can do 2 things choose to A)work for low wages or B) go find better work.
I am against paying a person to be mediocre, I am not going to pay a person to sit on their collective arse and not seek to make themselves a better contributor to my company.
2. no education? really by what reasoning? not sure if youhave been to college these days but it is full of people who have families, single moms in school, Dads and such going to school during the day and working at night to support their family. Education is their for any person who is willing to put the time and effort into it. I am not saying 4 year college or post graduate. we as a society full of alternate means to gain education, trade school online college, seminars, conventions, apprenticeships. and with an abundance means assisted by the Gov't to get that education, there is no reason any person cannot get 'educated'. If they haven't its because they are scared, don't want to lazy or a mixture of any of the previous.
3. limited intelligence: by this do you mean developmentally ********? Down syndrome or just 'slow'. having worked with many people in this situation and those who suffer from mental disease, their are programs and such to assist them. as well there should be. when I talk of stupid people its joe schmoe who is obviously of normal intellect but rather he is motivationallly impaired. I don't feel businesses should be hurt because he doesn't want to go anywhere in his life. its the parable of reaping what you sow. farming is the greatest model for success in life, everyone should learn what it means to farm and grow crops.
I had no support and no family, I have student loans and didn't start college till after I was married and graduated with 2 children and a wife. But I made it and now I am on a career path that if I keep improving my knowledge I will possibly be in a position to get taxed even more bythe democrats because they think I should help out all the lazy asses of the world.
now don't get me wrong their ar people that I will willingly help and deserve help but they should be the exception not the rule. And it should be community organized not overseen by the Gov't.
B
Black magick
Guest
Mo... I have NEVER heard anyone that could have said this better. Kudos
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Mogluk
Guest
yeah but I would be invaribly be impeached for klomping some member of congress or for farting on the head of China...or hitting on the wife of the PM of france.... orcs just aren't meant for presidents......kings maybe...
E
Elmer Fudd
Guest
I agree totally Mo, if we look back at our country's history, our earlier pioneers ony wanted and OPERTUNITY not a handout, they forged there own way from the dirt and the sweat of there brow,
I am a small buisness owner in Omaha nebraska, and have right around 20 yrs of experience trying to make it work, and to make a 20 year story short and put things in a plotical nutshell, "The American Work Ethic" has dramatically changed. What used to happen, was a Man would work his ass off for a raise and the natural progress up the company ladder,
Now we have this generation who is a "six Pack" in there play station fingers who demand more $$$ an hour for less experience, fare less production and productivity, so it may give them, less time to put into actual work, Translated---More $$ means less time I Need to actually (BE AT WORK)
totally different concept of thinking from early American history.
I earned my education, while married with two children on a military income studying western civ 101 in a Half shelter with a mag light to see what I was reading while hearing field operations going on all around me, ie....Tanks, hellicopters flying over head and people running all around...
Now having to listen to some snot nose brat who still has formula on his breath asking for $15.00 an hour as a home builder because he needs more money to pay for his 22" on his car....and he cant even read a tape....and Ive seen this type of change in the course of my short time in buisness...But I dont deserve to make any money for My risk,sacrifice,blood,sweat and tears, i remember when you had to earn what you made, and for FYI I dont hire them either...
Fudd
Z
Zip
Guest
Nice post Mo'
"I am against paying a person to be mediocre, I am not going to pay a person to sit on their collective arse and not seek to make themselves a better contributor to my company."
Where did I say I support lazy people? Are you saying all people that make minimum wage are freeloaders? they don't have aspirations or desire to improve themselves?
Look I'm for workfare and against welfare. I also don't like freeloaders but your confusing raising minimum wage to giving worthless people money they don't deserve.
I like you happy feel good story. I also have one. I was going from job to job with no career path when one day i decided to drop everything at the age of 25 and go to art school. I moved to san francisco (i have never even been here before the move) and took out a bunch of loans. I attended school for 5 years living off $700 dollars a month (my rent was $400). I got good grades landed some cal grants because of it and got a job 2 classes before I graduated. I paid off my $47,000 dollars in loans in the first 3 years of my employment, am debt free and have been working as a production artist for 10 years now. during the time that I was in school I did make minimum wage at a part time job. I didn't consider myself a freeloader and would like others that went though a tough time to at least make a salary that raises with inflation.
We are arguing over nothing they DID raise minimum wage who did they agree with you or me?
Where did I say I support lazy people? Are you saying all people that make minimum wage are freeloaders? they don't have aspirations or desire to improve themselves?
Look I'm for workfare and against welfare. I also don't like freeloaders but your confusing raising minimum wage to giving worthless people money they don't deserve.
I like you happy feel good story. I also have one. I was going from job to job with no career path when one day i decided to drop everything at the age of 25 and go to art school. I moved to san francisco (i have never even been here before the move) and took out a bunch of loans. I attended school for 5 years living off $700 dollars a month (my rent was $400). I got good grades landed some cal grants because of it and got a job 2 classes before I graduated. I paid off my $47,000 dollars in loans in the first 3 years of my employment, am debt free and have been working as a production artist for 10 years now. during the time that I was in school I did make minimum wage at a part time job. I didn't consider myself a freeloader and would like others that went though a tough time to at least make a salary that raises with inflation.
We are arguing over nothing they DID raise minimum wage who did they agree with you or me?
"Now having to listen to some snot nose brat who still has formula on his breath asking for $15.00 an hour as a home builder because he needs more money to pay for his 22" on his car....and he cant even read a tape....and Ive seen this type of change in the course of my short time in buisness...But I dont deserve to make any money for My risk,sacrifice,blood,sweat and tears, i remember when you had to earn what you made, and for FYI I dont hire them either..."
$15.00 an hour is minimum wage. Also wtf do you have to hire a loser such as the one you mentioned? I was arguing against raising minimum wage not the quality of american workers.
$15.00 an hour is minimum wage. Also wtf do you have to hire a loser such as the one you mentioned? I was arguing against raising minimum wage not the quality of american workers.
A
Addicted
Guest
I am not from the US, but i have to say this.
It's a fact, that for the last 8 years, the US have been spending more money than they make. If that happened in a household or a company, it would end up as bankruptcy. This is something the new president will have to deal with and the way to do it will probably be unpopular, because we all know how the state gets it's income: taxes! So either they need to look at taxes or cut backs.
Another thing, and I have no facts on this. How much tax did the Wall Street companies pay yearly before the credit crunch? Because I have a feeling, the financial sector are masters of avoiding paying taxes.
As someone said on BBC world radio: You privatise profits and socialize losses.
It's a fact, that for the last 8 years, the US have been spending more money than they make. If that happened in a household or a company, it would end up as bankruptcy. This is something the new president will have to deal with and the way to do it will probably be unpopular, because we all know how the state gets it's income: taxes! So either they need to look at taxes or cut backs.
Another thing, and I have no facts on this. How much tax did the Wall Street companies pay yearly before the credit crunch? Because I have a feeling, the financial sector are masters of avoiding paying taxes.
As someone said on BBC world radio: You privatise profits and socialize losses.
People who make minimum wage, make minimum wage because they settled for it. Even with little to no education, a small amount of work experience can EASILY shoot you to double that $5.25 an hour... like Mo said... minimum wage is not a career path and if you're getting it... it's by YOUR choosing.
You've written nothing but excuses for why they aren't making what they feel they are worth. The opportunity is there, so why are you blaming me, uncle tom or uncle sam for them not taking that opportunity seriously?
If they had aspirations or desires to improve themselves - then why are they making minimum wage? Did someone handcuff them to that pay rate or something?
Even TEMP work has always payed at a higher than minimum wage without having to legislatively raise it. Because the jobs are in DEMAND, employers pay higher costs as incentives.
You make little to no sense with what you're saying and your posts sound like your upset because of how you feel about the issue no matter what the facts of real life are telling you.
Yeah, sure... it would be fantastic if we lived in utopia where everyone got everything they wanted and could lead the lives they felt like leading without any kind of social stratification what-so-ever.
But that's not reality and it won't ever be because no resource we have is infinite. (not wealth, land, energy, nothing.)
Life is life...
That's because too many people hold opinions more extreme than yours and our politicians pander to them. Those people are uneducated on the subject and really don't grasp what the impact of their positions have on our country/economy. The politicians only care about re-elections and not about doing the right thing... and when the vast majority isn't educated or understands what's going on around them enough to see that more than half the stuff they ask for only hurts them more than helps.
M
Mogluk
Guest
but hey when ever congress wants a raise they just vote for it......
I am against that as well.....the people should be the overriding deciders of how much a congress men is pay.
Min. wage in Washington is 8.50 and the state is going crazy with base level cost increases, and the state is heavily in the red. I live in Montana but that will probably change as I am attempting to increase my situation.
I am against that as well.....the people should be the overriding deciders of how much a congress men is pay.
Min. wage in Washington is 8.50 and the state is going crazy with base level cost increases, and the state is heavily in the red. I live in Montana but that will probably change as I am attempting to increase my situation.
around here we need it, Spree
data is two years old, but I don't imagine it's gone down
Of the top 10 counties ranked by median property taxes, five were in New York and five were in New Jersey. The Tax Foundation looked at data on 775 counties from the U.S. Census Bureau's 2005 American Community Survey.
from here
data is two years old, but I don't imagine it's gone down
Of the top 10 counties ranked by median property taxes, five were in New York and five were in New Jersey. The Tax Foundation looked at data on 775 counties from the U.S. Census Bureau's 2005 American Community Survey.
from here
E
Elmer Fudd
Guest
1#-$15.00 an hour isnt minimum Wage
2#- And Let me quote myself cause obviously you cant read-
3# I was making a point that it goes way beyond just the minimum wage topic, It has alot to do with the mindset of the generation which follows up legislation,
4# only as an example, do you think that the crime rate is only based upon the person commiting the crime? or do you think it might go a little deeper than that, like it might have something to do with the lack of a stable family environment? or socio economic status? Or the High Devorse rate?
that was my point, but I apologize that your taking such offense to my experince on the matter,
I would LOVE to see politicians make the average cost of living for the district/city/state that they represent. Now THAT would be incentive to work hard for your people in order to get more money.
I would LOVE to see them be fined and imprisoned for taking gifts and favors.
Congress is the most corrupt entity in our government.
And people like to boast about how low Bush's approval rating is, but neglect to mention that congress... has an even lower one and that they're democrats.
Smoke and mirrors... that's all it is.
M
Mogluk
Guest
I am not a republican, I consider myself a conservative fiscally, and socially I am more of a "if it doesn't or won't affect me or my family I don't really care"
I believe in enumerated rights of the constitution.
And yes Congress is the most corrupt entity, I wish that we could force people to leave gov't and work the industries that they have hands in regulating. Or require that to oversee committees they have to actually have experience in the field.
The approval rating of congress has always surprised me, the talk of how its bush's fault that the economy is in tatters (he has done some major screw ups i will give you that). When in reality its congress that actually oversees and regulates the economy.... and the last 2 years it has been the democrats who could have at least pointed us in the right direction. But don't get me wrong the Republicans came into office with a host of issues that needed to be fixed from the clinton era and they did squat.....
Thats why I am amazed that people are going to overwhelmingly re-elect the congress this year, which to me is indicative of the apathy and ignorance of the general populace to what our federal gov't really does.
Democrats and republicans both screwed the pooch and now the rest of us are looking form the outside in and are hoping the same idiots who started this mess will be able to fix it. Don't know about you but in my company if you are the responsible party of a screw up, it doesn't normally speak for the case that you should fix it.
Gov't keeps making the mistake that they think that big business is out for us, all of us the american people. No, they are out for money and the bottom line, they could care less if joe schmoe is in his house or not as long as he is paying mortgage or if he doesn't, you heap fees and raise interest and make more money off joe schmoe.
I am not against Gov't oversight and regulation, And I am not for big business screwing the american. What I am for is looking at them for what they really are. I have no compunctions what business is about. But what the heck is congress trying to do? in the last 20 years we have lost the vision of what this Gov't was meant to do.
sorry I am getting winded again.
*goes back to scratching*
I believe in enumerated rights of the constitution.
And yes Congress is the most corrupt entity, I wish that we could force people to leave gov't and work the industries that they have hands in regulating. Or require that to oversee committees they have to actually have experience in the field.
The approval rating of congress has always surprised me, the talk of how its bush's fault that the economy is in tatters (he has done some major screw ups i will give you that). When in reality its congress that actually oversees and regulates the economy.... and the last 2 years it has been the democrats who could have at least pointed us in the right direction. But don't get me wrong the Republicans came into office with a host of issues that needed to be fixed from the clinton era and they did squat.....
Thats why I am amazed that people are going to overwhelmingly re-elect the congress this year, which to me is indicative of the apathy and ignorance of the general populace to what our federal gov't really does.
Democrats and republicans both screwed the pooch and now the rest of us are looking form the outside in and are hoping the same idiots who started this mess will be able to fix it. Don't know about you but in my company if you are the responsible party of a screw up, it doesn't normally speak for the case that you should fix it.
Gov't keeps making the mistake that they think that big business is out for us, all of us the american people. No, they are out for money and the bottom line, they could care less if joe schmoe is in his house or not as long as he is paying mortgage or if he doesn't, you heap fees and raise interest and make more money off joe schmoe.
I am not against Gov't oversight and regulation, And I am not for big business screwing the american. What I am for is looking at them for what they really are. I have no compunctions what business is about. But what the heck is congress trying to do? in the last 20 years we have lost the vision of what this Gov't was meant to do.
sorry I am getting winded again.
*goes back to scratching*
Woot Denver is awesome! only problem is the cost of living out here is way high.
If your not making atleast 13-15 and hour, you better have roommates. no worries though on that, theres a lot of illegals to room with.....
I use to live in boulder I love colorado.
Black rain just remember they did raise minimum wage oviously your ability to influence the government failed.
This is the last time i post in this thread we are arguing over nothing but the past I'm just glad the past worked out for those that needed it the most.
hooray for the minimum wage increase! goodbye bitter people.
Black rain just remember they did raise minimum wage oviously your ability to influence the government failed.
This is the last time i post in this thread we are arguing over nothing but the past I'm just glad the past worked out for those that needed it the most.
hooray for the minimum wage increase! goodbye bitter people.
That's a winning attitude.
When common sense or facts fail... always fall back on dumb **** like neener neener.
I've never made minimum wage, lolz at u!
wait for it............
neener neener
B
Black magick
Guest
Well, no crap. Congress seems to want to have a hand in everything, even whats not their responsibility, nor is it their business to. I'm also pretty sure that the good-for-nothings that want minimum wage outnumber those who think otherwise.
Ron Paul was my guy too, but i never figured he had a real shot at it. He has some good ideas, but hes a bit too liberterian for most people, and a few of his ideas are a little bit absurd but probably out of those who originally ran he was most qualified for the job. Interesting thing is that all the debates he was invited to he came in top 3 of every one. even though ill be voting McCain/Palin I had a real problem with the way McCain heckled Dr. Paul early on.
Thing is the person and their ideals are linked imo. You cant go by what a person says alone because these guys will both say anything for your vote. You instead need to go back and look at their records and who the can be seen with. I personally would like to know how Obama sat in a church for 20 some odd years listening to sermon after sermon from a very outspoken racist minister and somehow never heard one word of it??? I would like to hear somone ask him about his relationship with terrorist William Aires. I would like to know exactly why Mr. Obama almost always votes present and not yay or nay on any issue????
M
Mogluk
Guest
hey Troll
I didn't think we debating uselessly, even though the topic was minimum wage it is clearly evident that their are different views in america. Even though we may disagree we had better have an idea about what we all believe so that we can all get along
I didn't think we debating uselessly, even though the topic was minimum wage it is clearly evident that their are different views in america. Even though we may disagree we had better have an idea about what we all believe so that we can all get along
I have 23 'Kids' [College Students] working for me. Not everyone gets hand-outs Spree, although I will say the sense of 'entitlement' with the younger generation certainly seems to be occurring at a higher frequency. But that's a whole other discussion.
A
Addicted
Guest
"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask rather what you can do for your country"
People seem to be more and more selfish with no sense of community anymore.
There is more to a country, than the neighbourhood you live in and the problems you might face as an individual.
It seems like nobody is willing to contribute anymore. Everyone to themselves!!
A big problem is the complicated tax laws, you have a whole industry of lawyers, whose only job is to find ways for higher income people to pay less taxes. If everyone paid what the tax % is, I am sure you would be much better off.
But then again, whoever gets elected has to pay back for the campaign contributions. Big companies will get special laws made etc. It's the most legal type of corruption I know.
People seem to be more and more selfish with no sense of community anymore.
There is more to a country, than the neighbourhood you live in and the problems you might face as an individual.
It seems like nobody is willing to contribute anymore. Everyone to themselves!!
A big problem is the complicated tax laws, you have a whole industry of lawyers, whose only job is to find ways for higher income people to pay less taxes. If everyone paid what the tax % is, I am sure you would be much better off.
But then again, whoever gets elected has to pay back for the campaign contributions. Big companies will get special laws made etc. It's the most legal type of corruption I know.