What do we know about this character?
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[OOC] Lord Robert and the First Britannic War of Succession
- Thread starter WarderDragon
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This was an interesting blurb I took note of and we've since developed Lord Robert for our guild fiction. He's rather important for the earlier tales as Lord British comes to power in Britannia. If you are interested, I'd be glad to share what we did with him.
As far as Ultima and UO goes, Lord Robert could very well be the Lord Robert from the Ultima sagas. I remember him being the lord of Empath Abbey in Ultima 4 with Lady Marcy and I believe he was based upon Richard Garriott's brother, Robert Garriott.
I had heard rumors that there were tensions between the two brothers, but they are only rumors and I have no idea if there was any truth to them. Robert Garriott's wiki page indicates he seemed to be a big cheese at EA after it acquired Origin. He was also a big cheese with NCSoft so perhaps the whole tale of the Battle of the Crimson Plains is simply a tale about the tug of war they may have wages over creativity versus cost. Who knows?
As far as Ultima and UO goes, Lord Robert could very well be the Lord Robert from the Ultima sagas. I remember him being the lord of Empath Abbey in Ultima 4 with Lady Marcy and I believe he was based upon Richard Garriott's brother, Robert Garriott.
I had heard rumors that there were tensions between the two brothers, but they are only rumors and I have no idea if there was any truth to them. Robert Garriott's wiki page indicates he seemed to be a big cheese at EA after it acquired Origin. He was also a big cheese with NCSoft so perhaps the whole tale of the Battle of the Crimson Plains is simply a tale about the tug of war they may have wages over creativity versus cost. Who knows?
This is what I know and the assumptions I've developed around that.
The Crimson Plains earned their name following the last savage confrontation between the Legions of Cantabrigian and Exodus during the events of Ultima III. British was something of a Charles Martel in the grand scheme of things; the effective ruler but not yet anointed King. To the people he was the Protector of Akalabeth and the Champion of Emperor Wolfgang the Great.
The Empire would be renamed Britannia following the Third War of Darkness. Cantabrigian would ascend to the Akalabethan Throne and establish a religion centered around the Three Principles - perhaps based on or deviated from the earlier 'White Light' and 'Liturgy of Truth' - and would name the Stranger Champion and Avatar.
But in Ultima Online we have to establish why the realm is named 'Britannia,' the Virtues established long before the defeat of the Dark Triad. Thus Exodus is replaced by Robert in Ultima Online Canon.
This is where I am going with it on Baja. Lets compare.
I envision Robert to have been something of a tragic character. Someone that was not evil but hubristically inclined and convinced that he was the true heir to the Throne of the Empire. So much so that he would thrust the land into Bloodshed and War.
He would have to have been a contemporary of Lord Cantabrigian and Lord Blackthorne. I have this entire fiction where Wolfgang is something of a Charlemagne figure with Twelve Peers or Champions. He might be the Lost King of Ultima I or the Missing Son of Wolfgang that is rumored to have disappeared shortly following his fathers assassination by his younger sibling, Mondain the Wizard.
This could be a character weaved into the backgrounds of, or admired by, characters who are not necessarily evil but opposed to Britannia and the Virtues of Lord British.
The Crimson Plains earned their name following the last savage confrontation between the Legions of Cantabrigian and Exodus during the events of Ultima III. British was something of a Charles Martel in the grand scheme of things; the effective ruler but not yet anointed King. To the people he was the Protector of Akalabeth and the Champion of Emperor Wolfgang the Great.
The Empire would be renamed Britannia following the Third War of Darkness. Cantabrigian would ascend to the Akalabethan Throne and establish a religion centered around the Three Principles - perhaps based on or deviated from the earlier 'White Light' and 'Liturgy of Truth' - and would name the Stranger Champion and Avatar.
But in Ultima Online we have to establish why the realm is named 'Britannia,' the Virtues established long before the defeat of the Dark Triad. Thus Exodus is replaced by Robert in Ultima Online Canon.
This is where I am going with it on Baja. Lets compare.
I envision Robert to have been something of a tragic character. Someone that was not evil but hubristically inclined and convinced that he was the true heir to the Throne of the Empire. So much so that he would thrust the land into Bloodshed and War.
He would have to have been a contemporary of Lord Cantabrigian and Lord Blackthorne. I have this entire fiction where Wolfgang is something of a Charlemagne figure with Twelve Peers or Champions. He might be the Lost King of Ultima I or the Missing Son of Wolfgang that is rumored to have disappeared shortly following his fathers assassination by his younger sibling, Mondain the Wizard.
This could be a character weaved into the backgrounds of, or admired by, characters who are not necessarily evil but opposed to Britannia and the Virtues of Lord British.
I am.Sablestorm said:
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I didn't know that British (Cantabrigian) was the Champion of Wolfgang. Robert being Wolfgang's first born son would make a lot of sense. The death of Wolfgang would have left the realm of Akalabeth torn between whatever powers might lay a claim. And British, Wolfgang's first born (Robert perhaps), and Mondain would have been the primary adversaries.
This is a curious thing, now that you bring it up.
This is a curious thing, now that you bring it up.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Doing some research on this. I find that it was a "Lord Robere" who was defeated on the Crimson Planes. This is from more official sources.
I also found what look like chiloc files that I had to open in Notebook, from what looked like when the Virtue Guards were set up...
Lord Robert I found as a different person, from U3-5.
Lord Robert seems to be Robert Garriott. Lord Robere seems to be the man from the battle.
But there's plenty of confusion from other than official sites on this, including this official Mythic...
"He thought back to years gone by, when his realm consisted of a small land as yet surrounded by enemies. He thought back to Lord Robere and the fearful battle that stained a plain with blood and left behind a desert."
UO Stratics - Stories & Secrets - Beta - End of beta"And the final solution to the puzzle is thus Robere."
BNN: Celebration of Britannia Puzzle - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopediaI also found what look like chiloc files that I had to open in Notebook, from what looked like when the Virtue Guards were set up...
"Only the bravest knights belong to the Order of the Silver Serpent. 'Twas they who defeated the forces of Lord Robere."
"Though a kind and generous man in his youth, Lord Robere thirsted for power in his later years, so legends say. Had not the Order of the Silver Serpent been ready to fight for Lord British, this very land could have belonged to the ambitious conqueror."
"Though a kind and generous man in his youth, Lord Robere thirsted for power in his later years, so legends say. Had not the Order of the Silver Serpent been ready to fight for Lord British, this very land could have belonged to the ambitious conqueror."
Lord Robert I found as a different person, from U3-5.
Lord Robert seems to be Robert Garriott. Lord Robere seems to be the man from the battle.
But there's plenty of confusion from other than official sites on this, including this official Mythic...
"-- when Lord Robert was defeated on the Crimson Plains -- Britain is the capital city of Britannia."
Mythic Entertainment | Ultima Online - Play the 14-Day Free Trial!
This is what I gather.
Thus I am probably mistaken in describing him as 'the Champion of Wolfgang.'
Though I do gather from a tale told years ago - Lord Blackthorne recalling being a young Soldier and Knight alongside a young Cantabrigian - that British was already deeply involved in the hierarchy and had made a name for himself long before the Death of Wolfgang and the First War of Darkness.
'Tis said that long ago peace and tranquility covered the lands, food and drink flowed freely, man and beast lived in peace, gold and silver abounded -- it was the Golden Age of Akalabeth.
Mondain, second born of Wolfgang, a great king of old, wished to gain his brother's inheritance, and so he used his great powers for evil. Many years had Mondain traversed the lands of Akalabeth spreading evil and death as he passed. He created deep dungeons, so deep and extensive that their lower depths had never been explored. In these dungeons he unleashed more evil. He sent thieves, skeletons and snakes to dwell near the surface, and daemons and balrogs to guard the depths. Now blood flowed freely in Akalabeth, and foul creatures soon came to roam near the surface. Mondain cast such sickness and pestilence upon Akalabeth, that both man and beast lived in constant fear. Thus was the Dark Age of Akalabeth.
There arose from the land a man, pure and just, to battle the Dark Lord. British, Champion of the White Light, did battle with Mondain deep within the labyrinth of dungeons, eventually driving him from Akalabeth forever. British of the White Light was proclaimed Lord British, Protector of Akalabeth. Alas, much damage had been suffered unto the lands. The Revival of Akalabeth has begun.
'Tis thy duty to rid Akalabeth of the foul creatures which infest it whilst trying to stay alive!
Mondain, second born of Wolfgang, a great king of old, wished to gain his brother's inheritance, and so he used his great powers for evil. Many years had Mondain traversed the lands of Akalabeth spreading evil and death as he passed. He created deep dungeons, so deep and extensive that their lower depths had never been explored. In these dungeons he unleashed more evil. He sent thieves, skeletons and snakes to dwell near the surface, and daemons and balrogs to guard the depths. Now blood flowed freely in Akalabeth, and foul creatures soon came to roam near the surface. Mondain cast such sickness and pestilence upon Akalabeth, that both man and beast lived in constant fear. Thus was the Dark Age of Akalabeth.
There arose from the land a man, pure and just, to battle the Dark Lord. British, Champion of the White Light, did battle with Mondain deep within the labyrinth of dungeons, eventually driving him from Akalabeth forever. British of the White Light was proclaimed Lord British, Protector of Akalabeth. Alas, much damage had been suffered unto the lands. The Revival of Akalabeth has begun.
'Tis thy duty to rid Akalabeth of the foul creatures which infest it whilst trying to stay alive!
Thus I am probably mistaken in describing him as 'the Champion of Wolfgang.'
Though I do gather from a tale told years ago - Lord Blackthorne recalling being a young Soldier and Knight alongside a young Cantabrigian - that British was already deeply involved in the hierarchy and had made a name for himself long before the Death of Wolfgang and the First War of Darkness.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
LB's beginnings in Sosaria are curious in that they do seem to lack a historical documentation. We don't really know if he arrived before or after Wolfgang's murder, do we? That does leave open plenty of room for Roleplayers to fill in the blanks. And it doesn't have to be accurate, real life is also full of plenty of conflicting history. And this, to me, has always added a huge amount of intrigue and "realism" to UO's/Ultima's lore.
The idea that:
--players played through much of the history and documented what their own thoughts were, which are often wrong and lead to conflicting accounts and reports
--that much more is filled in through stories, books, NPC speach, which again can be wrong, intentionally or not
--and that the rest is open and unaccounted for, subject to speculation and investigation and conclusions, which again can be wrong....
this whole thing is so much like real life's historical documentaion, meaning it's deeply intriguing. And just plain fun.
Going back to the subject, there's an interesting thing here.
I've seen it noted on several places in my searches, that the Cardinal Ultima games may not actually be on one single Prime World. There's evidence of this in this subject...
Taken from NPCs - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online :
You can clearly see that these are the same person, in different lives.
Then there's this...
and this (related to above)...
and this...
I think I have them all. The thing is, as these NPCs seem to be related by various names and locations, some of them are together in the same game.
Does this mean anything? It seems intentional to me. Is Lord Robere also Lord Robert, aka Rob, aka Robert Frazier?
What about "Bob", aka Roberto, in UO?
And we haven't begun with "Fred" yet!)
The idea that:
--players played through much of the history and documented what their own thoughts were, which are often wrong and lead to conflicting accounts and reports
--that much more is filled in through stories, books, NPC speach, which again can be wrong, intentionally or not
--and that the rest is open and unaccounted for, subject to speculation and investigation and conclusions, which again can be wrong....
this whole thing is so much like real life's historical documentaion, meaning it's deeply intriguing. And just plain fun.
Going back to the subject, there's an interesting thing here.
I've seen it noted on several places in my searches, that the Cardinal Ultima games may not actually be on one single Prime World. There's evidence of this in this subject...
Taken from NPCs - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online :
Rob is a tavernkeeper in Paws in Ultima IV.
Along with Greg, Rob was the owner of the Folley Tavern in Paws during Ultima IV. One of their specialties was the Folley Filet. When he talked to the Stranger, Rob told him that the last person he knew that had any mandrake root was an old alchemist named Calumny.
edit Trivia
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in the Lycaeum in Ultima V. The name of his tavern, The Folley Tap, is also very similar to the Folley Tavern.
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in Moonglow in Ultima VI. His specialty, Frasier's Folley, has a similarity in name to the Folley Tavern.
Rob (U4) - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima OnlineAlong with Greg, Rob was the owner of the Folley Tavern in Paws during Ultima IV. One of their specialties was the Folley Filet. When he talked to the Stranger, Rob told him that the last person he knew that had any mandrake root was an old alchemist named Calumny.
edit Trivia
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in the Lycaeum in Ultima V. The name of his tavern, The Folley Tap, is also very similar to the Folley Tavern.
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in Moonglow in Ultima VI. His specialty, Frasier's Folley, has a similarity in name to the Folley Tavern.
You can clearly see that these are the same person, in different lives.
Then there's this...
Robert Frasier is a stately baron who, during the time of Ultima IV, rules the Lycaeum with Beth Frasier.
As Brother Zair informed the Stranger, he knows that 'ver' is one of the three syllables of the word of passage.
edit Trivia
* Robert is the name of Richard Garriott's brother.
* In Ultima VI there is a character with a similar name, Rob Frasier. He is a tavernkeeper in Moonglow. It is not known if they are related.
Robert Frasier - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima OnlineAs Brother Zair informed the Stranger, he knows that 'ver' is one of the three syllables of the word of passage.
edit Trivia
* Robert is the name of Richard Garriott's brother.
* In Ultima VI there is a character with a similar name, Rob Frasier. He is a tavernkeeper in Moonglow. It is not known if they are related.
and this (related to above)...
Rob Frasier is a tavernkeeper in Moonglow in Ultima VI.
In Ultima VI, Rob Frasier was the friendly proprietor of the 'Blue Bottle Tavern' in Moonglow. A happy, successful man, he even brewed his own brand of ale known as "Frasier's Folly", which was extremely popular in Moonglow. He was also willing to sell the Avatar his famous baked brie cheese with almonds, a popular local dish. Manrel, Mandrake, and Iolo all spoke highly of Fraiser's Folly.
edit Trivia
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in Paws in Ultima IV. His tavern, Folley Tavern, is similar in name to Frasier's Folly.
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in the Lycaeum in Ultima V. His tavern, The Folley Tap, is similar in name to Frasier's Folly.
* In Ultima IV there is a character with a similar name, Robert Frasier. He is the ruler of the Lycaeum. It is not known if they are related.
Rob Frasier - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima OnlineIn Ultima VI, Rob Frasier was the friendly proprietor of the 'Blue Bottle Tavern' in Moonglow. A happy, successful man, he even brewed his own brand of ale known as "Frasier's Folly", which was extremely popular in Moonglow. He was also willing to sell the Avatar his famous baked brie cheese with almonds, a popular local dish. Manrel, Mandrake, and Iolo all spoke highly of Fraiser's Folly.
edit Trivia
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in Paws in Ultima IV. His tavern, Folley Tavern, is similar in name to Frasier's Folly.
* There is another tavernkeeper named Rob in the Lycaeum in Ultima V. His tavern, The Folley Tap, is similar in name to Frasier's Folly.
* In Ultima IV there is a character with a similar name, Robert Frasier. He is the ruler of the Lycaeum. It is not known if they are related.
and this...
This article is about the ruler of Empath Abbey. For a mysterious warrior in Jhelom, see Lord Robert (Jhelom).
Lord Robert
Lord Robert, from Ultima IV
Species: Human
Appearances
[hide] Ultima IV
Location: Empath Abbey
Description: Lord of Empath Abbey
Lord Robert is a stately baron who, during the time of Ultima IV, rules Empath Abbey with Lady Marcy.
As Brother Zair informed the Stranger, he knows that 'amo' is one of the three syllables of the word of passage.
edit Trivia
Robert is the name of Richard Garriott's brother.
Lord Robert - The Codex of Editable Wisdom, a Wikia wiki for Ultima and Ultima OnlineLord Robert
Lord Robert, from Ultima IV
Species: Human
Appearances
[hide] Ultima IV
Location: Empath Abbey
Description: Lord of Empath Abbey
Lord Robert is a stately baron who, during the time of Ultima IV, rules Empath Abbey with Lady Marcy.
As Brother Zair informed the Stranger, he knows that 'amo' is one of the three syllables of the word of passage.
edit Trivia
Robert is the name of Richard Garriott's brother.
This article is about a mysterious warrior in Jhelom. For the ruler of Empath Abbey, see Lord Robert.
Lord Robert is a mysterious warrior who, during the time of Ultima IV, resides in The Inn of Ends in Jhelom.
He informs the Stranger to ask Nostro of the rune.
Lord Robert is a mysterious warrior who, during the time of Ultima IV, resides in The Inn of Ends in Jhelom.
He informs the Stranger to ask Nostro of the rune.
I think I have them all. The thing is, as these NPCs seem to be related by various names and locations, some of them are together in the same game.
Does this mean anything? It seems intentional to me. Is Lord Robere also Lord Robert, aka Rob, aka Robert Frazier?
What about "Bob", aka Roberto, in UO?
And we haven't begun with "Fred" yet!)
Prime was depicted as having been trapped within the Corrupted Gem. The Shattering and the subsequent Breaking of the World did not change that.
Thus we can infer - though not prove - that the Canon Titles did happen within the Shards of the Gem. That the Stranger has not but could at some point appear in Ultima Online.
Though I do believe it infers that Cantabrigian was present for some time in Sosaria before the First War. Thus to believe he might have been around during that period is not a stretch of the imagination.
Was he in Akalabeth as a Champion of Wolfgang? Or on Serpents Isle being instructed in the Old Ways by Shamino when Wolfgang died? I cannot say.
Thus we can infer - though not prove - that the Canon Titles did happen within the Shards of the Gem. That the Stranger has not but could at some point appear in Ultima Online.
We do not.
Though I do believe it infers that Cantabrigian was present for some time in Sosaria before the First War. Thus to believe he might have been around during that period is not a stretch of the imagination.
Was he in Akalabeth as a Champion of Wolfgang? Or on Serpents Isle being instructed in the Old Ways by Shamino when Wolfgang died? I cannot say.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Cantabrigian (British) did fight against what Mondain had wrought after he killed his father, Wolfgang. He fought in Dungeons and earned a title, "White (something or other)", I forget at the moment. And that was before he became Lord British, and certainly the reason why he was accepted by many as their leader to take them out of the darkness that Mondain brought. He also defeated Mondain, if I'm not mistaken, before Mondain came back after...doing something involving the Gem. And here, again, I'm not exactly sure how things went with Mondain's magics with the Gem. There seems to me to be conflicting reports of the happenings, and not having "been there" myself I'm both wondering and skeptical of some assumed(?) documentation by others. This is one explanation that I've speculated on...
-Mondain killed his father for the Ruby Sun Gem.
-Mondain turned the Sun Gem upon itself, binding Sosaria to it and turning it into the Gem of Immortality, and gained great powers.
-He then proceeded to attempt his takeover of the lands.
-British stopped much of his efforts, and then defeated Mondain's forces in a "final" confrontation.
-Mondain then Bound the Gem of Immortality to himself to become immortal and unstoppable, but the Stranger went to his "Fortress outside of time"(? question here if this is accurate) in the past and killed Mondain in the middle of this ritual by shattering the Gem of Immortality before the ritual was completed, then killing Mondain as he tried to (fly) get away (in bat form, I believe).
Any corrections, with support, would be greatly appreciated.
Now here's something to consider as well.
-Mondain was messing with time, or the Stranger was, before anything else.
Minax came and also messed with time, changing it and Earth's history in an attempt to change what the Stranger, from Earth, had done.
-Exodus also made changes that involved not only Sosaria, but time.
-Upon their defeats, the changes that both Minax and Exodus wrought was set back and undone.
This was all in the first 3 ages involved in the Age of Darkness. Doesn't this remind you of the shattered worlds of the shattered Gem? What I'm getting at is that the effects of the Shattered Gem of Immortality may have been far greater and encompassing than what's been said to date (as far as I know).
There was another event that would fit well into all this, if time itself was corrupted. The casting of the Armageddon Spell. Is it possible that it's all connected in some greater thing than we know of? How is Earth part of all this? If our shards are corrupted, parts of, the world that was Sosaria, and somewhat the same in shape of parts, what about Sosaria, which is similar to an Upside down Great Britain of Earth? Was there a "master calamity" that occurred to Earth that caused all else to be possible, to happen? Or some other greater place? Is there a time loop that causes all these things to happen as if one, the Armageddon and the Shattering, in all the worlds, all linked to one master event we know nothing about?
It's all speculation, of course. Just rummaging about in all the possibilities.
-Mondain killed his father for the Ruby Sun Gem.
-Mondain turned the Sun Gem upon itself, binding Sosaria to it and turning it into the Gem of Immortality, and gained great powers.
-He then proceeded to attempt his takeover of the lands.
-British stopped much of his efforts, and then defeated Mondain's forces in a "final" confrontation.
-Mondain then Bound the Gem of Immortality to himself to become immortal and unstoppable, but the Stranger went to his "Fortress outside of time"(? question here if this is accurate) in the past and killed Mondain in the middle of this ritual by shattering the Gem of Immortality before the ritual was completed, then killing Mondain as he tried to (fly) get away (in bat form, I believe).
Any corrections, with support, would be greatly appreciated.
Now here's something to consider as well.
-Mondain was messing with time, or the Stranger was, before anything else.
Minax came and also messed with time, changing it and Earth's history in an attempt to change what the Stranger, from Earth, had done.
-Exodus also made changes that involved not only Sosaria, but time.
-Upon their defeats, the changes that both Minax and Exodus wrought was set back and undone.
This was all in the first 3 ages involved in the Age of Darkness. Doesn't this remind you of the shattered worlds of the shattered Gem? What I'm getting at is that the effects of the Shattered Gem of Immortality may have been far greater and encompassing than what's been said to date (as far as I know).
There was another event that would fit well into all this, if time itself was corrupted. The casting of the Armageddon Spell. Is it possible that it's all connected in some greater thing than we know of? How is Earth part of all this? If our shards are corrupted, parts of, the world that was Sosaria, and somewhat the same in shape of parts, what about Sosaria, which is similar to an Upside down Great Britain of Earth? Was there a "master calamity" that occurred to Earth that caused all else to be possible, to happen? Or some other greater place? Is there a time loop that causes all these things to happen as if one, the Armageddon and the Shattering, in all the worlds, all linked to one master event we know nothing about?
It's all speculation, of course. Just rummaging about in all the possibilities.