One reason Uo Doesn't Have As Many Players

[RavenWinterHawk]

on that note.. anyone wanna buy some gold? j/k/j/k/j/k/j/k/j/k/

When it gets to .25 per million. Ill buy.

 

[Landicine]

Its kinda like baseball & steroids.. Barry Bonds has an * next to his record.

Same should go for UOA (steroids) IMO..

Except that Major Leage Baseball and the law doesn't allow steroid use, while EA has approved certain programs to be used with UO:

"The UO Pro Program provides an opportunity for us to showcase Ultima Online utilities and add-ons, while giving creators the official and legal licensing seal of approval."

"The first positive test will result in a suspension of up to ten days. The second positive test will result in a suspension of thirty days. The third positive test will result in a suspension of sixty days. The fourth positive test will result in a suspension of one full year. Finally, the fifth positive test will result in a penalty at the discretion of the Commissioner of Major League Baseball. Players will be tested at least once per year, with a chance that several players can be tested numerous times per year."

Big difference?

Also the community for the most part approves of UOAssist, except for a few people who see every saved mouse click as "cheating" or "cheap."

I find it funny that I'm the only one defending UOAssist considering how little I use it. I've beaten people using Assist using just client-side macros. I've made most of my wealth on characters that never need UOAssist. A mediocre player with UOAssist is still a mediocre player.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

I've beaten people using Assist using just client-side macros. I've made most of my wealth on characters that never need UOAssist. A mediocre player with UOAssist is still a mediocre player.

I rest my case.

 

[Black Betty]

Im in neither of these groups so I think your theory is BS!

Agreed.

 

[o2bavr6]

Twist it any way you want. The fact is that UOAssist is being used for scripts. It's a problem. It doesn't matter who's at fault, it's still a problem.

That's like saying lets ban cars from the road since bank robbers use them for their getaway.

The ACTUAL FACT is that scripts can be run without UOA. The scipters are just using UOA to save them time. They do not need UOA at all to write or run scripts.

And if EA would add all the features that UOA has into the game, there would be no need for UOA.

 

[Landicine]

I rest my case.

How do you rest your case? Your case was that UOAssist is akin to scripting and steroids and cheating. I argued that it is allowed by the rules and really doesn't give much of a benefit.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

How do you rest your case? Your case was that UOAssist is akin to scripting and steroids and cheating. I argued that it is allowed by the rules and really doesn't give much of a benefit.

MY POINT is you dont need UOA to play.. just like you dont need steroids to hit homeruns..

UOA is the progie that is easiest and most commonly used in or for the aid of scripting.

Steroids are the uhh.. progie for hitting easy homeruns..

See the similarities?

And yes, like steroids, UOA makes your package smaller. =)

 

[o2bavr6]

MY POINT is you dont need UOA to play.. just like you dont need steroids to hit homeruns..

UOA is the progie that is easiest and most commonly used in or for the aid of scripting.

Steroids are the uhh.. progie for hitting easy homeruns..

See the similarities?

And yes, like steroids, UOA makes your package smaller. =)

WOW!! you could not be more wrong. In Fel at least, most people use UOA for the PvP benefits of arm, disarm, pot chugging, healing, and every other great feature it has.

I would bet that scripters using UOA are a minority compared to regular players using it. In my guild probably 80% of the people have it and none of us are scripters.

What you seem to be missing here is perspective;
You say prices are out of whack and things are too expensive because there is too much gold in the world due to scripters.

Conversely if there was very little gold in the game and no scripters, items would be just as expensive, albiet on a different scale due to their rareness.

Gold and it's perceived value is relative to supply and demand.
Example: You are either not happy because there is too much Frostwood around because of scripters, and without scripters you are not happy because there is no Frostwood around for you to buy and turn in to the Library.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Twist it any way you want. The fact is that UOAssist is being used for scripts. It's a problem. It doesn't matter who's at fault, it's still a problem.

That's like saying lets ban cars from the road since bank robbers use them for their getaway.

The ACTUAL FACT is that scripts can be run without UOA. The scipters are just using UOA to save them time. They do not need UOA at all to write or run scripts.

And if EA would add all the features that UOA has into the game, there would be no need for UOA.

You're exactly right, except to add that allowing any outside prog to work with a game is going to allow a back door for cheating. And this, again, is a problem.

 

[Landicine]

MY POINT is you dont need UOA to play.. just like you dont need steroids to hit homeruns..

UOA is the progie that is easiest and most commonly used in or for the aid of scripting.

Steroids are the uhh.. progie for hitting easy homeruns..

See the similarities?

And yes, like steroids, UOA makes your package smaller. =)

I would imagine that using UOA with a scripting program probably saves some scripters some time. It allows setting up a macro by doing it directly in game without much programming (which even the UO client doesn't allow). I agree that most scripters don't write their own scripts and probably augment basic scripts from someone else with UOA. However, since everything in UOA can be done client-side, it can be done with another scripting program. Like the bag of sending change, disallowing UOA would only affect scripters for a little bit.

Still using the steroids example. Someone using steroids has a lot more muscle mass than the same person not using steroids. This results in more power behind a hit, stronger leg muscles for sprinting, etc. UOA can't make your attacks stronger, and as anyone who hasn't put a long enough pause in their UOA macros, it can't make you faster than the UO server will allow.

Following the baseball example, I would compare UOA to the latest bat technology. Players will put a lot of energy into finding the best bat for them. The bat itself won't add more power to the hit, but it may help channel it better. UOAssist can help remove wasted energy and make a player more efficient, if and only if, the player knows that he is doing. There is also a fine line between legal use of a legal aid and illegal use of such. Using a script in addition to UOA would be akin to corking one's bat which is illegal in the Major Leagues.

 

[Nestorius]

The only thing anyone needs to buy from player vendors are Powerscroll and Stat Scrolls. They are common enough that they usually cost only a couple million at most.

Anything else is optional. If you have played for years and do not have a million in the bank, you are not playing to earn gold. If you do choose to play for gold for a couple months, then you can buy your stat and powerscrolls.

I suck at farming gold and never have more than 2 million at most among all my characters and accounts. Being that lazy, I don't max out every character with +25 stats and all 120 skills. I don't have many real artifacts either. I don't care. I want to earn my items myself, not buy them from other players. I wish I could hunt for my own powerscrolls, but I don't mind the current system that much.

 

[o2bavr6]

You're exactly right, except to add that allowing any outside prog to work with a game is going to allow a back door for cheating. And this, again, is a problem.

Keep in mind that even without UOA people can script all day long.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Someone using steroids has a lot more muscle mass than the same person not using steroids. This results in more power behind a hit, stronger leg muscles for sprinting, etc

Someone using UOA has stronger leg muscles.. (they dont have to click and drag, just tap a button)

For sprinting! exactly! UOA makes you able to "sprint" faster than the non-UOAer..

Were on to somthing here..

most people use UOA for the PvP benefits of arm, disarm, pot chugging, healing, and every other great feature it has.

I suppose if i used steroids i would like the results too.. no?

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Keep in mind that even without UOA people can script all day long.

Im all for Punkbuster..

 

[o2bavr6]

Im all for Punkbuster..

I don't think Punkbuster would help stop scripters. It may stop programs that make you run faster, but not scripting.

To stop scripting the game would have to take over your comptuer and not let you multi-task. So programs like ICQ would not work, basically nothing but the game would work.

At the end of the day I blame scripting on all the people who didn't want to be involved in PvP. EA made a facet called Tram where you cant kill others because people whinned.

I bet you if there was no Tram, scripting would be almost non-existant as in the old days, because we would be PKing them all the time.

 

[Landicine]

Someone using UOA has stronger leg muscles.. (they dont have to click and drag, just tap a button)

For sprinting! exactly! UOA makes you able to "sprint" faster than the non-UOAer..

Were on to somthing here..



I suppose if i used steroids i would like the results too.. no?

BandageSelf is a macro in the client. All spells as well as target last and target self are also part of the client. Disarm either hand or switch weapon are part of the client. Many of these things existed originally as UOA, but they are now part of the client. You too can join the tap-a-button revolution.

I would love to see client side potion macros and for the lastweapon macro to not get messed up when I get disarmed by another player. However, I also know that more doesn't always mean better. I could map every spell of magery to the keyboard, but it doesn't mean it would make me a better mage.

I do think UOA has some macro options that make sense. I added two UOA macros to my fisher last night: use sextant and use fishing pole. I've had the same sextant and fishing pole on that character for months now (the pole is actually blessed for the character), and yet the client would make me double click on each item as I switch between the two on the way to an SOS. Most people use UOA for handy macros like that that make sense.

I really don't understand your problem with UOA. As far as cheating has gone, I suspect the recall and gate spells with their connection to past dupes, house breakins, and other cheats have done more damage to the game than UOA. A UO without UOA would still have dupers, scripters, hackers, and cheaters. It would also have fewer casual players who just want a dang knife macro to shear sheep.

 

[o2bavr6]

I suppose if i used steroids i would like the results too.. no?

With your comments you obviously don't PvP. Because of this you lack understanding of a fairly large part of the game. You just want to change things to suit you with no regard as to the consequences to the PvPers in the game.

There are a fair amount of game features that were added specifically because of UOA. Before UOA to heal you had to remove your weapon from your hand. This was done by dragging the weapon from your paper doll to your backpack. Imagine trying to run for your life while poisoned and redlined to have to stop and take the time to use your mouse to remove your weapon and then bring the mouse over to click on a pot to drink it.

You are currently benefiting from UOA and you don't even know it, and now you want it removed completely.

Cure the cause not the symptom.

 

[Landicine]

I bet you if there was no Tram, scripting would be almost non-existant as in the old days, because we would be PKing them all the time.

You are wrong in part. People macroed and scripted back in the days before Trammel. They did it hidden or in a house or in the furthest reaches of the lands. They just had to do a little more work to find a safe spot. I remember seeing people with animals/monsters trapped in their houses for provoke and combat skill training. Many of these scripts use the safety of guard zones, so adding a "guards" line to the script at regular intervals wouldn't be hard.

There are more ways to deal with scripters in Felucca (killing, stealing, blocking). However, I would argue that killing defenseless newbies and crafters and etc. hurt UO a lot early on. There is an old joke: Democracy is three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper. By that definition, UO before Trammel was truly a democracy.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

With your comments you obviously don't PvP. Imagine trying to run for your life while poisoned and redlined to have to stop and take the time to use your mouse to remove your weapon and then bring the mouse over to click on a pot to drink it.

*zing*

Havent in years because of such.. and lets not forget about those *small* imbalances too.. Sounds like im benefiting alright..

dang knife macro to shear sheep

Last Object, and click on tha sheep... then double click it (war mode) to kill it.

on the way to an SOS

Buy a world map, and plot the course, and Last Object your pole to fish on the way.

Cure the cause not the symptom.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Yes, item insurance and people like Rico killed stealing.. just join up with a guild (with a malicious intent) gain trust, make friends.. and rob them blind. It helps too if you are seeking a praticular item to steal. The months long process is almost better than stealing the item itself, and you just made a lot of enemies in the process

Pfft, guild jumping was great fun, especially as a thief. Do you know how many guilds back in the day didn't even know they could be stolen from since they had spent all of their game time in Trammel?

The best fun was joining a guild, and then killing as many guild members as possible before getting kicked out of the guild, muhahahahahahaha.

Oh, and don't forget the fun that could be had in looting in Trammel. Good times...la

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Pfft, guild jumping was great fun, especially as a thief. Do you know how many guilds back in the day didn't even know they could be stolen from since they had spent all of their game time in Trammel?

The best fun was joining a guild, and then killing as many guild members as possible before getting kicked out of the guild, muhahahahahahaha.

Oh, and don't forget the fun that could be had in looting in Trammel. Good times...la

=) wb

 

[o2bavr6]

You are wrong in part. People macroed and scripted back in the days before Trammel. They did it hidden or in a house or in the furthest reaches of the lands. They just had to do a little more work to find a safe spot. I remember seeing people with animals/monsters trapped in their houses for provoke and combat skill training. Many of these scripts use the safety of guard zones, so adding a "guards" line to the script at regular intervals wouldn't be hard.

There are more ways to deal with scripters in Felucca (killing, stealing, blocking). However, I would argue that killing defenseless newbies and crafters and etc. hurt UO a lot early on. There is an old joke: Democracy is three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper. By that definition, UO before Trammel was truly a democracy.

Technically they were macroing not scripting. At most people macro mined or macroed skills in their houses. these were not complex scripts that involved the characters moving around and recalling etc.

Yes it is true that crafters suffered but the game was infinately more exciting than it is today. and there was nothing like the satisfaction of killing the PKer who was trying to kill you. I remember when I would bring my PKer to guard some of my crafting buddies.

Also there are places in the world that you can Mine or harvest lumber in guard zone safely.

 

[o2bavr6]

Havent in years because of such.. and lets not forget about those *small* imbalances too.. Sounds like im benefiting alright..

So I was correct when I said you jsut want the changes regardless of the impact on other players.. No different than us not wanting the change and forcing you to deal with it. Except that we were here first and have played longer, so our opinion means more and carries more weight.

Last Object, and click on tha sheep... then double click it (war mode) to kill it.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be beligerant, but this has to be the dumbest thing ive ever seen posted. EA has strove to make things in the game more user friendly, like cutting up bandaids. Anyone who wants to do those repetitious movements on purpose is just STUPID.

Cure the cause not the symptom.

Umm. this was my quote and I think you better look it up to understand its meaning, because you want to cure the symptom!

 

[Landicine]

Technically they were macroing not scripting. At most people macro mined or macroed skills in their houses. these were not complex scripts that involved the characters moving around and recalling etc.

Yes it is true that crafters suffered but the game was infinately more exciting than it is today. and there was nothing like the satisfaction of killing the PKer who was trying to kill you. I remember when I would bring my PKer to guard some of my crafting buddies.

Also there are places in the world that you can Mine or harvest lumber in guard zone safely.

Then the scripters would lumberjack and mine in guard zone, thus defeating the purpose. Also, for those doing the library collection with a script, how many of them would make the item needed to be turned in in a place they could be killed? Again, scripters aren't stupid, and they could figure a way to make money/resources that minimized risk.

 

[Landicine]

*zing*

Havent in years because of such.. and lets not forget about those *small* imbalances too.. Sounds like im benefiting alright..



Last Object, and click on tha sheep... then double click it (war mode) to kill it.



Buy a world map, and plot the course, and Last Object your pole to fish on the way.

Cure the cause not the symptom.

Apparently you didn't understand me, but I needed to switch back and forth between the fishing pole and the sextant. Last Object only covers, you guessed it last object. As for the world map, have you tried getting exact coordinate plots on that thing? I'm a GM cartographer, and I constantly use a map to navigate, but it can't be used to get an exact set of coordinates (thus the sextant), just a general ball park. Same with the sheep, if I had to gather wool in a timely fashion often, I would have a macro for the butcher's warcleaver. I mean if I was going to kill thousands of sheep over days and make lots of bolts of cloth. If I was going to do lots and lots of dull repetitive actions. With an allowed program with me watching it (attended). Funny thing is that KR would allow both of these macros you find so subversive.

 

[Emil IsTemp]

If I was going to do lots and lots of dull repetitive actions.

Sounds like scripting to me =).. Ok ok, 'attended' scripting if you will.. Dont play KR, so wouldnt know how that interface is set up..

have you tried getting exact coordinate plots on that thing?

Yea, you just ballpark it and sail til your a few degrees away.. Honestly, if you really need those 5 fish and boots you get from the time it takes you from the completed course, to the SOS spot a few screens away..

Except that we were here first and have played longer, so our opinion means more and carries more weight.

Actually, i remember playing this game well before UOA was even thought of.. and guess what?

changes regardless of the impact on other players

Thats exactly what happen when UOA came out, to those who didnt want to give EA more money. Its all been said and done.. to us.

Quite frankly, WE were here first, not UOA.

those repetitious movements

Well, we know you would like to just hit one button all day and be done with it, but if you cant still hit one button followed by 3 clicks... lol enjoy UOA.