Next publish (concerning power scrolls/protection)

[Winker]

Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B.

What does it take for you to stand up and listen to the people who play the game? We don't want this in fel. Its our game not yours! You just earn a living from us, why listen to us eh!

As other have said, no one asked for this Nerf, you are just giving people another way to grief people without any penalty. If a blue comes down to champ and starts healing the champ killer we have no choice but to kill the blue and take a murder count!

Do we need to close accounts for you to say…well we got it wrong that time guys!

 

[aoLOLita]

Even though it will wreck havoc in Fel (this Trammie chuckles) I believe the concept is a very good idea. Here on Legends, I always hunted with guildmates and shared the loot equally, and/or diced for it afterwards. Our alliance is not very active anymore, so I have done Fel and Medusa a number of times with others, and am always surprised when the High Hitter does not share with those that healed him or pet - even when they are fellow guildmates. Yet these same High Damagers expect others to Heal, Cure and Rez or Disco.

I applaud UO recognizing the "unsung heros" of the battelground!

 

[HD2300]

Here is the solution: If you are protecting, then your heals dont count.

Here is how you can thank me and the 95% of players: Drop all PS is Tram. LOL

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Exactly. Show me the long list of posts in UHall asking for healer looting rights.

Sadly they are all over the place, but generally when it pertains to EM Event critters. I can understand that, heck you actually NEED healers at those.

What gets me tho is appatently rolling out something when you know there is a mechanical issue with it. Sure, we can all debate if healers should get looting rights etc, there are pro and con folks on that, just for the record I am in the con side. I don't think many folks would argue for rolling out a change when you KNOW there is a game mechanic issue in what you are rolling out tho, that just ain't right. You fix the issue... THEN you roll it out.

 

[Mervyn]

yeah if i'm unable to take control of a spawn now, i'll just sneak in there and gift of renewal the sampire hitting the champ. Then he can't even remove the gift of renewal.

No need for me to wod the champ when it's low.

 

[Mervyn]

If anything it will hurt the PvMers more than the PvPers. At least the PvPer's will have an easier time fighting/killing a stealth healer who is trying to take the scrolls because they have a little bit more expierence. If a PvM guild is doing a spawn and a stealth healer drops in it will be harder for them to kill him or keep him from healing so he doesn't get any scrolls.

I wouldn't think so. To me it really seems the pvpers who frequent the spawns seem to care too much about getting every single scrolls, which is ok, but part of a point I'm trying to make. Not everyone cares so much about making sure they get the max amount scrolls and ensuring that any other person gets absolutely nothing. Personally I wouldn't care if I get a few less scrolls.

viper is correct, our object (reds) is to troll and to stop people from getting scrolls, we care not how many we actually get ourselves, although like i said, this just gives us a new way of trolling people in game.

 

[virtualhabitat]

I am looking forward to the new changes.

It's about time this was implemented.

 

[Wenchkin]

For guilds and parties, I can see the use. But beyond that, we need a toggle.

When I heal a stranger I do it to help, not get loot. I don't want the loot. If I did, I'd throw my pets at whatever they were fighting and be done with it. I use heals to help without taking loot. I want to continue doing that.

If a player is soloing spawn, I think they're quite entitled to a toggle so they can disable the loot share for a healing stranger.

Personally I'd rather get a tiny gain in compassion for healing others, and leave the loot sharing as something that only happened when you were guildmates or in the same party. Applying it in a blanket fashion is going to be a pain in the backside.

And please, don't extend this to players healing/vetting pets as well lol.

Wenchy

 

[Mervyn]

You can tell the devs have not thought this through.

Normally when my blues are WODing the champ, i'll evil omen it (me being red) and am not at risk of getting a scroll, so with this change, i can apparently still do that, just not heal whoever is hitting the champ.

When powerscrolls were given to people who just hit the mobs and not the boss, loads of people quit the game and this was reversed back again very swiftly in uo terms

I can see a point to giving scrolls to someone who discords the champ, but can see major annoyances and problems with giving scrolls to someone healing the champ killer. I'm not actually speaking in my interest here, as my guild frequently just kills the champ with red chars so don't bother protecting anyway.

 

[Viper09]

Ideally I would suggest that upon starting the champ spawn the one who starts it could select the rules on who gets scrolls, classic rules or the new rules being set up.

Otherwise perhaps there could be a way to keep the classic rules in place in fel and the new rules be applied in the tram-rule set areas for EM events, etc.

 

[Widow Maker]

This entire concept is just bad...really, really bad.

But then...these are the devs who gave us.........



Beastial Suits.


(sigh)


Should we even expect anything of well planned out real value from them at all??

This team is so like others we have had to deal with in the past. You simply try to outlast them and then have the fun of hoping the next team (if there is one) can fix the f-ups this group of unqualified individuals stuck us with.

 

[aarons6]

"Healers, Tanks, and DPS will all be equally counted when receiving looting rights throughout the game."

This change allows us to provide all play-styles with equal rewards throughout the game. Player debuffs are not counted towards credit only healing, damage received, and damage taken. In the case of protecting players, in order to receive the maximum amount of scrolls each player that meets the looting rights requirements will need to be protected to ensure that the protectors receive additional scrolls.

*Note there is currently an issue with receiving power scrolls if there are pets involved with champ spawns in 74 which is being resolved.

its the word equal that bugs me..
healers shouldnt get anything equal.. if they want to get counted when receiving loot rights they should do damage. if they cant, they need to rework their template.

how hard is it to hit something..

this is not going to go very well.

its not just champs, its everything that has a large boss.. even in tram..
so im down in the abyss doing a mini spawn and the renowned pops up..
a guy comes out of hiding and heals you then goes right back into hiding, now he gets EQUAL loot rights????

 

[Theo_GL]

I wish they would stop giving out rares at EM events and you wouldn't need this at all. EM events are nothing but gimmie gimmie gimmie.

They should just have a lottery you pull when you log in and if you get lucky - here is your unique runeblade of EM'ness you can sell for 40mil.

This is a dumb change. Just like the justice change. Its just going to allow more griefing.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

They should just have a lottery you pull when you log in and if you get lucky - here is your unique runeblade of EM'ness you can sell for 40mil.

40 mil? The people would hate the pay cut

 

[CovenantX]

This change wouldn't effect me other than when i raid others doing spawns, typically my champ killer (Wammie) needs no healing, thus i can just protect with my alt account, and get all 12 scrolls. though i dont do spawns often, because i have more than enough scrolls than i need...

But this change would be extremely annoying for other people, that deal with someone (griefer), running in and spamming heals on someone, to get looting rights, as soon as they go offensive, kill them, if they want all 12 scrolls they will then heal the champ back up (Im not even sure if healing the champ back up will remove the player healer from looting rights list?).

Therefor tram-ruleset only facets should have this feature. its only fair for healers at Events, peerlesses, & spawns anywhere but fel.

 

[HD2300]

But this change would be extremely annoying for other people, that deal with someone (griefer), running in and spamming heals on someone, to get looting rights, as soon as they go offensive, kill them, if they want all 12 scrolls they will then heal the champ back up (Im not even sure if healing the champ back up will remove the player healer from looting rights list?).

There is no effective difference to some blue popping up at the last minute and hitting the champ. Hitting the champ vs. healing someone else... no difference.

Currently the only issue is if you are protecting and heal, but you can solve that by ignoring heal totals from anyone that protects someone else when working out who gets a PS

Anyways, just do the 95% a solid and make them very happy and drop PS in Trammel. Cater to the 95% not the 5%.

 

[G.v.P]

Anyways, just do the 95% a solid and make them very happy and drop PS in Trammel. Cater to the 95% not the 5%.

I'm against powerscrolls in Tram but scroll binders have really killed the <120 market...not sure how non-pvp type people get 110s etc if not from the ground near a champ altar. Not sure how many new players/chars are around either, haha.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I'm against powerscrolls in Tram but scroll binders have really killed the <120 market

True, between the binders and Clean Up points for them, they are scarce these days.

 

[Lady Michelle]

If your in factions no one except players in your guild or alliance guilds can heal you in fel. See there is a way to stop the healing.

 

[dukarlo]

I wonder how many of the people complaining in this thread are complaining because they cant solo farm spawns on thier ridiculously overpowered pvm chars at 5am while they multiclient a bard that does nothing but discord the champ after killling the red character on thier other account over and over to get justice in the first place to get all 12 scrolls. Yeah, the changes are basicly pointless and were a waste of time but if your crying because you dont get all 12 chances to get a 120 then haha to you. Thats the problem with champ spawns, they are supposed to be fought over but the greedy Trammies that the dev team caters too excluseively nowadays try every little trick to get every last bit of loot without having to fight for it. I see it all the time on GL with the huge blue Trammel Zerg guild. They either do a champ during the day with no less than 10 peeps(in which case the changes make zero difference) or they try to be REALLY greedy and do the multiclient thing at off hours. The multiclent thing not getting all the loot is what I really think there complaining about.

 

[pgib]

I like the idea of healers getting loot rights, it adds a playstyle to the fighting part of game (the healer, of course).

I also understand the concerns: to some extent the game favors greed by splitting the loot among attackers (instead of multiplying it).

A solution could be to add a flag to characters, like the "accept guild invites" one: accept healing.

If active, the target enters the computation, if not the target is ignored.

This way i could finally scream "heal the dragon!" while doing ilshenar champ spawn or other bosses and not feel guilty .

 

[Mervyn]

I wonder how many of the people complaining in this thread are complaining because they cant solo farm spawns on thier ridiculously overpowered pvm chars at 5am while they multiclient a bard that does nothing but discord the champ after killling the red character on thier other account over and over to get justice in the first place to get all 12 scrolls. Yeah, the changes are basicly pointless and were a waste of time but if your crying because you dont get all 12 chances to get a 120 then haha to you. Thats the problem with champ spawns, they are supposed to be fought over but the greedy Trammies that the dev team caters too excluseively nowadays try every little trick to get every last bit of loot without having to fight for it. I see it all the time on GL with the huge blue Trammel Zerg guild. They either do a champ during the day with no less than 10 peeps(in which case the changes make zero difference) or they try to be REALLY greedy and do the multiclient thing at off hours. The multiclent thing not getting all the loot is what I really think there complaining about.

That's a good point, it will kind-of affect those solo players who play during school hours, however most of the people i know who do that can actually kill the champ bosses without healing themselves or discording, so i dunno.

 

[Mervyn]

If your in factions no one except players in your guild or alliance guilds can heal you in fel. See there is a way to stop the healing.

This is incorrect,

Currently if you're red/crim, an opposing faction player can indeed heal you, the fel community have been asking for this to be changed for a while however has still not been changed.

I can foresee some epic griefing

 

[Lady Michelle]

If your in factions no one except players in your guild or alliance guilds can heal you in fel. See there is a way to stop the healing.

This is incorrect,

Currently if you're red/crim, an opposing faction player can indeed heal you, the fel community have been asking for this to be changed for a while however has still not been changed.

I can foresee some epic griefing

Thank you I learned something new I thought it was same for blues, and reds being in factions. Of course I wouldnt of been healing a opposing red faction player.OMG your almost dead let me heal you up before you kill me. hehe

 

[RaDian FlGith]

No offense, but all of this complaining about healers, and how this breaks two and three person groups getting 12 scrolls off of champ spawns sort of cries to me an alternate solution:

Make the champ spawns more difficult so that such a small group can't complete a spawn by themselves.

Truly, it seems to me that the complaint here is more, "We won't be able to monopolize spawns all by ourselves!" which seems counter to the whole idea of a champ spawn. If someone runs by and heals you, kill them. Isn't that the Felucca way anyway?


Though, from a design aspect, I would say to avoid "grief healing" (oh god, it is 2012, isn't it... that I just typed that certainly has to be a sign of the end of the world), a party requirement at champ spawns and/or in Felucca alone would prevent such a thing, so, knowing the usual griefing guild in Felucca, I can see the need to put this in.

Still think turning the volume up to 11 on the spawns would help too. But, all of the whining aside, I see the need to prevent grief healing too.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Make the champ spawns more difficult so that such a small group can't complete a spawn by themselves.

I would be willing to be with the revamp of the dungeons and the addition of this new healing stuff, it's just a matter of time before that actually happens. I can see to where all this falls in line to that very thing in the somewhat near future.

 

[Cogniac]

It took me a minute to understand this, as I kept getting sidetracked by all of the champ spawn talk in this thread, but here's what I figured out:

• I no longer need to hunt. I just need to run around healing people who are already hunting and I get to steal half their stuff.

What I don't understand is everyone getting hung up on Felucca and champ spawns. I can use this change to grief any player in the game, any facet, any ruleset, anywhere, any time, forever.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

• I no longer need to hunt. I just need to run around healing people who are already hunting and I get to steal half their stuff.

The preceeding change brought to you by The Wandering Healers {TWH} Local 134. rolleyes:

 

[Viper09]

At the risk of being burned beyond recognition here, I feel I must say something. And that is that I sincerely doubt this change will be anywhere near as bad as everyone is claiming it will be.

*suits up for flames*

 

[Widow Maker]

At the risk of being burned beyond recognition here, I feel I must say something. And that is that I sincerely doubt this change will be anywhere near as bad as everyone is claiming it will be.

Just tell me what shard your guild controls the spawns at. I will take a character there if these changes go in. I will be very glad to show you that is actually going to be far worse. I know, because it is what we do.

Only those who actually do Fel spawns against multiple enemies has any inkling about what this means for Fel spawn fighters. Obviously, Stephen is not in this category or he wouldn't have even entertained the orginiating thought.

Please do not ask me to explain it to you. The act of even asking the question of what it will do to Fel simply means you would not be capable of understanding the answers. It simply is not the world the presenter lives in and thus he/she has no initiating concept from which to build a focused and correct hypothisis on.

Stephen screwed up. You have to at least give him the chance to redeem himself. An "Oops...my bad. Didn't realize the overall implications. We'll can this for now and look at trying something else shortly" would sure be a GREAT start.

Because it is true.

C'mon Stephen...stand up man.... show us....

 

[kelmo]

Just tell me what shard your guild controls the spawns at. I will take a character there if these changes go in. I will be very glad to show you that is actually going to be far worse. I know, because it is what we do.

Siege Perilous. Bring it.

 

[Widow Maker]

It took me a minute to understand this, as I kept getting sidetracked by all of the champ spawn talk in this thread, but here's what I figured out:

• I no longer need to hunt. I just need to run around healing people who are already hunting and I get to steal half their stuff.

What I don't understand is everyone getting hung up on Felucca and champ spawns. I can use this change to grief any player in the game, any facet, any ruleset, anywhere, any time, forever.

Now THIS is a man who has an inkling of what this change means.

C'mon Stephen... stand up.... pull out the man card... let us see it.... admit it.

 

[kelmo]

Please do not ask me to explain it to you. The act of even asking the question of what it will do to Fel simply means you would not be capable of understanding the answers.

Really? This is your idea of debate?

 

[kelmo]

The very next time you insult Bleak will be your last post, Widow Maker.

 

[Viper09]

Just tell me what shard your guild controls the spawns at. I will take a character there if these changes go in. I will be very glad to show you that is actually going to be far worse. I know, because it is what we do.

Only those who actually do Fel spawns against multiple enemies has any inkling about what this means for Fel spawn fighters. Obviously, Stephen is not in this category or he wouldn't have even entertained the orginiating thought.

Please do not ask me to explain it to you. The act of even asking the question of what it will do to Fel simply means you would not be capable of understanding the answers. It simply is not the world the presenter lives in and thus he/she has no initiating concept from which to build a focused and correct hypothisis on.

Stephen screwed up. You have to at least give him the chance to redeem himself. An "Oops...my bad. Didn't realize the overall implications. We'll can this for now and look at trying something else shortly" would sure be a GREAT start.

Because it is true.

C'mon Stephen...stand up man.... show us....

Perhaps it might help if I explain why I say this. Its because all this argument is based on right now is speculation. Speculation that everytime a spawn is brought up someone coming in to heal just to screw with you. Many times in the past when arguments break out over speculation on publishes everyone is silent once it goes live because it turns out to be nowhere near as bad as everyone was making it out to be. I doubt very much that it will happen as much as it is claimed, that it will make such a drastic change that as everyone is claiming it will be. Flame as much as you wish. I will just wait and see how it will go on the real shards.

 

[goldenpower]

I really don't care who implemented these changes. the bottom line is these changes are a BAD idea. nothing personal. just a bad idea.

I think I already said this earlier in the thread but I'll say it again:

IT. JUST. DOES. NOT. MAKE. ANY. SENSE. WHATSOEVER.

ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.

you should not be able to BEAT people by HEALING them. MAKES NO SENSE> HELLO? ANYBODY OUT THERE WITH ME ON THIS?

 

[kelmo]

Really? The next wave of Champ Spawn invaders will be healers? So you heal me and you might get a scroll? *shakes head* God... I hope I never meet a bunch of PvP healers...

 

[goldenpower]

Perhaps it might help if I explain why I say this. Its because all this argument is based on right now is speculation. Speculation that everytime a spawn is brought up someone coming in to heal just to screw with you. Many times in the past when arguments break out over speculation on publishes everyone is silent once it goes live because it turns out to be nowhere near as bad as everyone was making it out to be. I doubt very much that it will happen as much as it is claimed, that it will make such a drastic change that as everyone is claiming it will be. Flame as much as you wish. I will just wait and see how it will go on the real shards.

Viper I have a simple question for you: do you PvP? do you go to Felucca?

there's really no need for Socratic debate on this.

it's the TRAMMELIZATION of Felucca. it started with Instanced Corpses. that NEVER should have happened and is a key part of this conversation as well.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Perhaps it might help if I explain why I say this. Its because all this argument is based on right now is speculation. Speculation that everytime a spawn is brought up someone coming in to heal just to screw with you. Many times in the past when arguments break out over speculation on publishes everyone is silent once it goes live because it turns out to be nowhere near as bad as everyone was making it out to be. I doubt very much that it will happen as much as it is claimed, that it will make such a drastic change that as everyone is claiming it will be. Flame as much as you wish. I will just wait and see how it will go on the real shards.

It is not even that... It is the fact that there is 1 neft after another on Fel. Reds can not be "protected" at spawns, so now reds can not even heal the champ killer and expect to get full scrolls. Combine that with the huge nerf to justice and all it is doing is hurting Fel players even more.

Now before people go off and say "Who cares I play in tram 100% of the time." Keep in mind all of these nerfs combined will lower the amount of power scrolls on the market. Which due to normal supply and demand will increase the price of stat scrolls for the tram only players and for new players (if we ever get any). Just what I want to say to new players "Welcome to UO due to the Dev's lack of vison and complete non understanding of basic economics the scrolls you need inorder to be semi good are completly out of your price range."

Scroll binders have already made 105-115 scrolls a thing of the past, lets not make the situation worse because less scrolls are dropping.

Sadly Common sense is not common in society today

 

[Viper09]

This is another thing that lead to my conclusion, if people come in healing they're just going to be slaughtered. Pvp is about fighting, someone who runs in healing will be killed so quickly. All the spawners I've seen would just kill any stranger on sight even if they're just passing through.

 

[goldenpower]

Really? The next wave of Champ Spawn invaders will be healers? So you heal me and you might get a scroll? *shakes head* God... I hope I never meet a bunch of PvP healers...

Kelmo how about this. I'll put it in very simple terms

should you be able to win a fight by healing someone? yes or no?

 

[kelmo]

I have a simple question for all of you hating on this change... Why? Do you fear Trammel folk will storm in and take all the Scrolls that rightfully belong to you? Do you fear stealth healers will come and spoiler yer fun?

Show me a spawn busting healer template, please. Go test it out on test shard. Let us know the results.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Really? The next wave of Champ Spawn invaders will be healers? So you heal me and you might get a scroll? *shakes head* God... I hope I never meet a bunch of PvP healers...

Yup just like it sucks when you run into the "PvP" stealth hearders in a bezerker suit while trying to do Destard.

Don't worry being able to stay invis. while hearding Drags will not hurt this game at all.

 

[goldenpower]

I have a simple question for all of you hating on this change... Why? Do you fear Trammel folk will storm in and take all the Scrolls that rightfully belong to you? Do you fear stealth healers will come and spoiler yer fun?

Show me a spawn busting healer template, please. Go test it out on test shard. Let us know the results.

I'll answer your question after you answer mine: should you be able to run into a fight, HEAL YOUR ENEMY, and get a reward for doing that? YES OR NO?

 

[goldenpower]

maybe Patton should have offered to repair German tanks? I've really never heard of anything like this before.

IT MAKES NO SENSE

 

[goldenpower]

heck maybe we should just heal the champ itself! throw heals on Rikktor he will shower us with 120 mageries!!!

 

[pgib]

Feluccans are such a gang of scoundrels that the first thing they can think of about a new feature is how they can use it to leech stuff from eachother. What a wonderful place!

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I have a simple question for all of you hating on this change... Why? Do you fear Trammel folk will storm in and take all the Scrolls that rightfully belong to you? Do you fear stealth healers will come and spoiler yer fun?

Show me a spawn busting healer template, please. Go test it out on test shard. Let us know the results.

Bezerker suit

100 hiding 120 stealth 100 SW 120 mage med eval

680 skill points and you still have 20-40 skill points to play with.

You could even drop SW to 30 and have an extra 100 points or so and get the SDI bonus if you want to.

Maybe throw in 100 herding so you can lure up GD's at a destard spawn.

 

[goldenpower]

I really feel what they are trying to do is discourage guild play and encourage players to take a side. Red or Blue. they are trying to socially engineer us. I'm sure they think it is a hoot and a half.

 

[kelmo]

You folks crack me up... Really. Fear the healer. if some one shows up to heal you, be sure to kill her.

To all the Trammel guilds... This is a new tool for you to go to Felucca and try yer hand for scrolls. Either regroup yer spawn guilds to include healers... or make a crew of PvP healers and storm the Fel Guilds that do spawns.

Good Lord. I have seen a lot of really unworkable ideas to get folks in to Fel... Are you saying you don't want folks to go forth and do spawns? To battle for scrolls? Are you saying you... fear the healer?