New Virtue system Sucks!

[Shelleybean]

I never really used any of the virtues except honor. I like that it didn't decay and I only lost dots when I actively used it. I logged on all my characters recently and they dropped from knight to follower. I don't know about the other virtues but it seems like a nerf to honor.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Someone could, or Mythic could A) increase prisoner spawn B) increase the number of places they spawn. Once someone maxed out their Compassion, they probably wouldn't continue escorting prisoners. The limit may have made sense when the server populations were higher, now notsomuch.

True, as it is now you won't often run into someone outside of the since-defunct (fixed) Orc prison or the two spots where Bravehorn spawns. But! If you make Compassion easy mode by removing the timer AND the cap, it's possible you'd run into a situation where one person farms. I mean, if they don't give Bravehorn a timer and they remove the cap then you know people would just script it all day. Just how easy should the virtues be?

Bravehorn does have a 'timer' for him to respawn by his harem, which can be shortened by killing him after leading him to the pond.

For prisoners, I heartily encourage them to spawn more in the mine, and somewhere else, but to bring back the orc camps (with prisoners). If you really want to go the either/or route with the timer/cap, then the cap should go...though I wouldn't be sad if the timer was cut in half (really boring to wait )

But someone would script in UO? Really? *feings shock* Sadly, nearly everything can be scripted and I'm sure there already is such a thing for Compassion even with the timer. (Not that scripting should be encouraged in any UO system)

If you're implying that the "goal" of Justice was to encourage Trammel players to go to Felucca and engage in PvP, then this Virtue failed right out of the gate - and fails even more when you consider that many guilds only use it to monopolize the powerscroll market. There is no reason that gaining it should be forever tied to Fel or PvP.

The problem is Justice only works in Fel. Why should someone be able to farm in Trammel? That's like allowing a player to farm silver in Trammel. I agree it's silly how people can just kill their guildmates to gain Justice, but it's a for Fel virtue and the way to gain it should remain in Fel, in my opinion, unless they redesign the virtue to have non-Fel benefits. Otherwise, have you suggested a redesign of the function of Justice?

The original implementation of Justice was poor to say the least. It doesn't embody the Virtue, especially now that its abused to easily. The fact that it is a "Fel only" Virtue also adds to its failure. The Virtues need to be applicable to all facets, just like there need to be PvM and PvP methods to raise them...well maybe except for Honesty...really can't see that one going PvP.

That being said, Justice needs a complete redesign which would take considerable thought. Especially since those that abuse its current form would raise bloody Hell.

What do you think about my Honor idea, though? ;P wonder if they'll ever finish Arenas without Cal.

I like it, though the glacial pace of arenas might kill it. They could just re-enable gaining honor from PvP, since the Virtue had it to begin with. Though the perfection system would have to be left PvM, lest some new thrower/bushido/mystic ubertemplate arise

 

[G.v.P]

Bravehorn does have a 'timer' for him to respawn by his harem, which can be shortened by killing him after leading him to the pond.

True. I guess I'd have to time his decay rate, seems faster than 5 mins even if you don't kill him (I usually use Tram then Fel then Tram, etc.). Maybe there should be a global 1 min wait instead of 5...a compromise ;P. But I totally understand why people wouldn't want to waste a half hour just because of the timer. I guess I would be okay if there was no timer :/...just will be my luck that I go to one spot and someone is farming ;P.

I definitely feel like the Virtue System should remove decay though. Fame decaying makes sense. But Virtue? Makes no sense at all. Karma doesn't decay, and if anything, using a Virtue should make one more virtuous, no? Not reduce bubbles...but eh.

Hm. Well, hopefully the devs will take a look at this thread and its staying power, lot of interesting ideas in here.

The Virtues need to be applicable to all facets, just like there need to be PvM and PvP methods to raise them...well maybe except for Honesty...really can't see that one going PvP.

Not to be a goof, but Honesty in PvP has always been returning items/suit drops and the like, I'd say . Can't code that, though, haha. Maybe a protector could have his/her Justice items tagged with the name of the person he protected for a short time, haha, then return the Justice items for Honesty ;D...be funny, a thief could steal them then return them for Honesty .

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Great idea for the pvp, I had tought about it !

But a virtuous thief ?

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Justice got all F'd up with the new publish

Well actually, it's not that bad and can probably be easily fixed. Took a few spawns before I noticed exactly what was happening.

So, the problem is, with the new publish, I guess they made it so that all virtues decay with use. I think this is fine and makes sense for everything...except for justice. What's happening now is if you're a Knight of Justice, and you protect someone at a spawn, you immediately drop to follower of Justice. Basically, this makes it impossible to actually utilize protection as a Knight of Justice unless you find some reds to kill and gain justice during a spawn. Of course, if you protect multiple people during a spawn, your justice could drop dramatically. I do not know if it's possible to accumulate a bunch of excess points so that you don't drop below knight when protecting.

I don't think this was thought through by the Devs, and it probably couldn't be tested on test center because maybe people don't train justice there?

Anyhow, the solution would be pretty simple; just switch it back to Justice only decays with time and not through use. Otherwise, maybe reduce the justice consumption so that someone might be able to protect 4-5 people at a spawn and still remain a knight without having to accumulate justice in the middle of a spawn? I mean, from time to time you might be able to get more justice during a spawn, but so many morons raid with blues (don't get me started, but a separate issue), and some shards are so dead that it would be pretty rare. Let us protect a normal spawn without having to gain more Justice. I just thought, it must be a nightmare doing a harrower, haven't done one myself since the publish.

 

[Merion]

Re: Justice got all F'd up with the new publish

In antoher thread someone says that it is not the protecting but the recieving of scrolls that uses up justice. Nonetheless, it has to be reworked so that it uses up justice once the champs dies.

if you are not able to get all 6 scrolls without killing red during the champ, justice is sincerely broken.

 

[catfish]

If you only gain Honor by using the virtue, but you lose Honor by using the virtue...

how can you gain any honor?

 

[Kellgory]

If you only gain Honor by using the virtue, but you lose Honor by using the virtue...

how can you gain any honor?

I see what your getting at and it could get pretty deep since by honoring monsters does provide a benefit to those that have bushido, so technically they should loose a dot everytime they honor something while those that don't have bushido would only loose a dot from honoring themselves and from normal decay. That would then mean in order of those with bushido, they would either have to have another way of gaining honor or stoning off the skill in order to get back to knight, and after the latest mess they created with the virtues do you really want then jacking around with multiple variables for honor.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

If you only gain Honor by using the virtue, but you lose Honor by using the virtue...

how can you gain any honor?

You gain honor when honoring opponent. You loose it when honoring yourself.

No problem here, it has always worked like this. The real issue is that now it also decays. Because it is extremely hard to raise at high level on a non-dexxer