kelmo
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Sing it brother! We have the sugar cane...
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NEW PLANTS in FIRE Color??? --> Dev Response Please??
- Thread starter DHMagicMan_1
- Start date
- Watchers 5
T
Teeshy
Guest
Flora,
I'm well aware of the pitiful reasons behind the decision. What I'm not understanding is the DevTeam's consistant and flagrant embrace of inconsistency.
The excuse that the plants had nothing in common with each other is both ridiculous, and shows of how blatantly out of touch with the existing system that particular developer is. Botanically speaking, if you cross a fern and a campion, you're not going to get much of anything. There is no real reason to use that as an excuse...
Additionally, the lack of colors is specifically because the developer in question simply didn't like how they look. You know what? People don't like certain things, and that's fine. That's why variety is good. Me, personally, I've found some interesting uses for various colors, and like the fact that the original set had a variety to choose from.
What we have now is basically the lazy version of a good gardening system. It's half-baked, and riddled with a narrow-minded developer's baseless choices.
In short, it was a system slapped together to make gardeners happy for a very short time. What's sad about it is that it could have been made a very vibrant system. Sure, it would have basically been identical to the first system, but it would have had its own personality. And could have easily been implemented.
As for the artistic excuse, they, quite frankly, are just that. If it would have taken the "ever so busy" art team that much time to implement some new artwork that could have been spot-hued like chairs and other items that only hue one part, then frankly, they need to hire a new art team.
In the end, it comes to this: A developer made poor design decisions and instituted a lackluster addition to the game that had the potential to have been a lot better, and simply points to various reasons for her excuses. It simply cements the idea that development on UO will CONTINUE to be half-baked, incomplete, and lacking in vision.
I'm well aware of the pitiful reasons behind the decision. What I'm not understanding is the DevTeam's consistant and flagrant embrace of inconsistency.
The excuse that the plants had nothing in common with each other is both ridiculous, and shows of how blatantly out of touch with the existing system that particular developer is. Botanically speaking, if you cross a fern and a campion, you're not going to get much of anything. There is no real reason to use that as an excuse...
Additionally, the lack of colors is specifically because the developer in question simply didn't like how they look. You know what? People don't like certain things, and that's fine. That's why variety is good. Me, personally, I've found some interesting uses for various colors, and like the fact that the original set had a variety to choose from.
What we have now is basically the lazy version of a good gardening system. It's half-baked, and riddled with a narrow-minded developer's baseless choices.
In short, it was a system slapped together to make gardeners happy for a very short time. What's sad about it is that it could have been made a very vibrant system. Sure, it would have basically been identical to the first system, but it would have had its own personality. And could have easily been implemented.
As for the artistic excuse, they, quite frankly, are just that. If it would have taken the "ever so busy" art team that much time to implement some new artwork that could have been spot-hued like chairs and other items that only hue one part, then frankly, they need to hire a new art team.
In the end, it comes to this: A developer made poor design decisions and instituted a lackluster addition to the game that had the potential to have been a lot better, and simply points to various reasons for her excuses. It simply cements the idea that development on UO will CONTINUE to be half-baked, incomplete, and lacking in vision.
I want to brew some in my Elven Washbasin.
F
Flora Green
Guest
I know you are aware of them, RaDian. I've seen your other posts. 
But, some might not be aware of the reasons and I think it needs pointed out that we could and should have had a proper system.
But, some might not be aware of the reasons and I think it needs pointed out that we could and should have had a proper system.
F
feath
Guest
agreed.
F
Flora Green
Guest
So, has anyone started gathering the quest seeds yet to test? I think I'll run it a few times today.
Yep I have done the quest several times this morning. I planted them in fertile dirt now I just have to wait.
Yep I have done the quest several times this morning. I planted them in fertile dirt now I just have to wait.
Same for me!
Well, there's alot more things in UO I would consider mundane as well, and even more for removal or fixing, such as, oh, let's say leather armor being stronger than metal, for one.
Items with insane increases on them......let's face it, it's a game, not real life....thus, neon can exist, so what if it affects a pathetic 2% that don't like it.
Notice I didn't use a word that can be offensive to the challenged??
Think next time.rolleyes:
F
Flora Green
Guest
You don't have to use the neon.
Regine or Sakkarah, whichever is fine though I prefer Sakkarah
We didn't HAVE to throw in anything. Since I was doing the cocoa trees (that we had promised a few months back), I decided to add a few more plants while at it. This has already been answered before, and in the FOF, there was no time planned in the schedule for gardening. What you would like to see would take way more time than what our very busy schedule currently allows.
Extremely considering that would not do what you were hoping for. Again, as stated in the FOF, it's not just a matter of copy pasting and tweaking a few numbers.
As you appropriately put in bold it WAS a design decision not to allow the new plants to produce seeds. And I stand by that decision, even more now in view of the general reaction to the new plants. Some players have individually grown over 200 plants in the first week. By the time the plants stop producing seeds, each of these players will have in excess of 1600 seeds sitting on their plants to be harvested whenever. Why even bother hunting for the seeds anymore?
To this, some of you will reply "I'm a crafter, I shouldn't have to hunt for this". And again I disagree. Don't you have to hunt to get barbed leather? Peerless ingredients? Serpent & dragon scales? Bones? Why shouldn't gardeners also have a portion of the plants they can produce require a certain amount of hunting? My scribe cannot pump out a billion scrappers a day because I need to do peerless bosses and hope they will drop the ingredients I'm missing. Or I can just go buy them from someone else and hope the scrappers I make will have the mods I needed so I can resell for a profit instead of a loss. It's part of the risk any merchant needs to deal with.
I understand some of you are not pleased with this decision, but it will not change. The peculiar seeds WILL NOT produce seeds.
About the fire color...
As Jeremy stated in the FOF, it was as much of a surprise to us as it was to you. While we didn't actually want to have any of these new plants colored, unless other actually significant issues occur, we will not be changing this and consider it as an Easter egg instead.
About sugar canes, hops and all that jazz...
As we have stated before, while the new plants will not self-pollinate, we are hoping to add resources to some of them in the future. So it isn't random that I renamed the bamboo sugar canes. But as you all know, we have been and will continue to be very busy in the foreseeable future and gardening is not on the official schedule. So I'm not going to make any promises or give any kind of ETA on anything. Just know that we do want to do more with the new plants and that they have been set up in a way that it would give us more flexibility to add new features to them when time will permit.
I like the neon colors and I think it should be there for the people that do.
I'm not ******** just because I like something you don't. People are different not everyone is like you.
F
Flora Green
Guest
Thank you for taking into account the people who actually garden which you apparently do not. And thank you for helping me finalize the decision to close accounts.
F
Flora Green
Guest
No. Besides I didn't say I was leaving. I just refuse to have multiple accounts for something so stupid as a dev's mistake.
With all due respect Sakkarah, I do not think you understand what it is to be a gardener in UO.
Perhaps I sound ungrateful; I'm truely trying not to. I'm just so upset at all of this that I can't remain optomistic in any sense whatsoever. I love gardening, as do the multitude of people that play this lifestyle every day, and I feel that you Sakkarah just don't really get that and I find it so disheartening it literally brings me to tears.
Think I'll just shut up now...thank you kind lady for what you have said and done at least...
Gardening was never about hunting. The fact that you've made it all about hunting, with gardening thrown in as the means to the end is disturbing. One of UO's unique features was the fact that there is so much one can do without ever hunting a day in their UO lives...way too many MMO's out there require it for every little thing (it's why I quit WoW or I'd still be there). It's a shame you've decided to just fall in with the pack.
I literally can not put into words how this makes me feel. So instead I'll just go on...
Thanks for that at least. It brings me to tears when I see the new plants and know they won't ever be in colors, so at least some small ray of sunshine is appreciated.
Gardening has never been of a care to anyone on the dev team, so that's really no big change. In fact, I'm wishing now that the new plants had not been thought of at all. Better if we'd all been going happily about our business rather than to have our hearts broken because we're not really that important and at the whims of the personal preferences of one developer.
Perhaps I sound ungrateful; I'm truely trying not to. I'm just so upset at all of this that I can't remain optomistic in any sense whatsoever. I love gardening, as do the multitude of people that play this lifestyle every day, and I feel that you Sakkarah just don't really get that and I find it so disheartening it literally brings me to tears.
Think I'll just shut up now...thank you kind lady for what you have said and done at least...
F
Flora Green
Guest
kittykat Thank you for your well thought out post. I could not be so eloquent which is why I stopped when I did.
Thank you for your well thought out post. I could not be so eloquent which is why I stopped when I did.
I don't think there is a problem in having a mixture of hunting/non-hunting. Although I too would prefer a gardening endgame that was about building a seed bank, I also like that even within a playstyle like gardening there is a variety of systems. This branch of gardening requires hunting (or buying from hunters if you can be sure where they came from). The next system might be something different.
As an aside I like playing crafters, but I've never hunted peerless. It's annoying sometimes to have this piece of the game I can't (*) get at but I've managed to buy a few reagents here or there so I don't don't feel completely shut out and get that community-effort feel by going out shopping.
(* - "won't" would be better than "can't" here - it's just that I too am one of those weird players who puts up a whole maze of walls in the game between I do and don't enjoy playing independent of the actual limitations coded into the game)
Although I don't want people to not give feedback, this level of change-anxiety worries me. Every change rubs someone the wrong way. If we show that we cannot adapt to the "online experience may change" part of a subscription game, then I fear this won't encourage devs to aim higher, it will just sap them of their morale.
I am sorry you would have preferred not to get the plants altogether if you couldn't get them in color. But this was not just my personal preference and despite what you may think, we definitely take player feedback into consideration whenever making a decision. But keep in mind that as disheartened as you may be that you didn't get the options you wanted, others would have felt just as ignored had we gone the way you wished.
I also happen to love gardening and have grown 50 of the new plants of my own since they hit production shards. I actually bought a new Tram house so I can go crazy with the new plants (and Halloween Deco), because my Fel houses are either storage or designed for PvP. It's not that I do not get where you're coming from, it's just not the direction we want to go with this set of plants.
L
Lord Drakelord
Guest
I like the new plants and don't mine having to kill for the seeds, but I really wish I did not have to carry them around in my bag since they cannot be watered or potion once they grow out of the bowl, setting them all up on stones tables and then to have to unlock each one once it out grew the bowl was a big pain.
So if you can fix that I'll be alot happier in getting the Short hedges my wife wants around the walk ways of her keep.
BTW love the hops, sure helps with placing single roses on it to make it look like a part of a rose vine.
Now off to kill mummies, antlions and Serpentine Dragons. *wishes for terracotta pots*
So if you can fix that I'll be alot happier in getting the Short hedges my wife wants around the walk ways of her keep.
BTW love the hops, sure helps with placing single roses on it to make it look like a part of a rose vine.
Now off to kill mummies, antlions and Serpentine Dragons. *wishes for terracotta pots*
The only problem I have is with the lack of ability to tend locked down plants when they mature, particularly the cocoa and cypress trees. They're quite hard to place on the ground, releasing and re-placing many of them daily is somewhat frustrating to say the least.
Sakkarah, thanks for the new plants
Even when some are not happy, we are some who love the way it is done. Making all happy is not possible.
I do like I have to hunt for seed, even when I find hunting upper spawn for peerless resources was a big mistake, we are alot crafters who never get this resources because the hunters use their own mules instead of selling the resources to the crafters.
Witrh this seed, most hunters don't want to water and cure plants for 9 days to get a nice plant and maybe not get the one they want. I believe they will sell the seed and buy the plants.
Maybe we need some changes to peerless resources so it take more than 5 min to logon your mule and craft the items, not sure how to do it but as it is now, it do not work.
Even when some are not happy, we are some who love the way it is done. Making all happy is not possible.
I do like I have to hunt for seed, even when I find hunting upper spawn for peerless resources was a big mistake, we are alot crafters who never get this resources because the hunters use their own mules instead of selling the resources to the crafters.
Witrh this seed, most hunters don't want to water and cure plants for 9 days to get a nice plant and maybe not get the one they want. I believe they will sell the seed and buy the plants.
Maybe we need some changes to peerless resources so it take more than 5 min to logon your mule and craft the items, not sure how to do it but as it is now, it do not work.
You're right of course. It's a defeatist attitude and I'm sure I'll shake it off at some point and go on with things (in fact, I do to some extent - after all I *am* sitting here running the stupid seed quest 8 million times so I must care in some way). I do have to say that I do have new-found respect for those that get upset at changes and quit the game over it because they are so utterly disheartened.
Perhaps it would help to understand why this means so much to *me*. Gardening is the one thing that I consistantly find enjoyment in in the game any more. Combat, hunting, etc etc, I've done all that already. There are far better and more exciting places to find that kind of gameplay...if I wanted to; I don't. Like you mentioned, it's choices that I make.
My plant shop offers every plant in every color and type possible. I enjoy growing hundreds of plants daily. It's all OCD for sure, but it's what makes me happy. On top of that I dearly love deco and decorating. Just feeling like both of those took a hit here - perhaps unrealistically so *shrugs*. Things could have just been so much more...
Yes it is very frustrating having to do it everyday. Mine never want to go in the spot I want them too without several trys. It wouldn't be so bad if I could lock it down and not have to move it.
I actually wish the cocoa trees would have been smaller since we get resources from them. They are so big they take up a lot of room.
And wouldn't your halloween deco have been oh so much more cute with black plants?
*shrugs* Your choice, you're the one in charge (and by you, I mean the dev. team). Nothing I can do about that but voice my opinion.
Sure a rare black or snow white plant could be nice, but I'm happy we did not get to make all this colors we have with the old plant set. I would hate to store all this colored seeds.
Plants look best in plain color, even when I do like the fire colored.
I would not want the cypress tree in all this colors, nor the henge, it sounds really scary to me.
I would love to have a white cypress tree.
I can appreciate why that would make you feel more deeply impacted than someone like myself who is merely grows a few now and then.
F
Flora Green
Guest
Same here, kittykat. Today I had five people ask me about the new plants and if they could get certain ones. Some only wanted a couple, some requested larger amounts. All but one told me to forget it as they don't want to wait to see if I get what they want. Very discouraging. At least they know they can buy all the campions and poppies they want.
The cypress trees were added with Halloween specifically in mind
The mossy cypress wasn't originally meant to be in, but then it fitted both the creepy and swampy profile.
But I agree with you that a darker version of them (or many other plants) would look nice for Halloween deco.
Now imagine red snowdrops for Valentines day, white ofluer flowers for winter deco, or even green poppies for a summer decor. It all could have been really beautiful (and incredible deco).The cypress trees were added with Halloween specifically in mind
The mossy cypress wasn't originally meant to be in, but then it fitted both the creepy and swampy profile.
But I agree with you that a darker version of them (or many other plants) would look nice for Halloween deco.
T
Teeshy
Guest
I know I'm in the minority here, or at least, the most vocal people seem to be of the opposite opinion to me, but I really *like* that I have to hunt for the seeds. I can understand the frustration at having the seeds be a possible one of four different plants, and therefore not being able to fill orders etc. but I like that people are going to have to go out and collect seeds, not just work from their own "stored" stock of them =)
I also like that in the past week I've seen more people out hunting than I had in the previous several weeks
In fact I had to move away from what I wanted to hunt, to give the people that were there before me their own space Bah, as I said once before, I'm a big kid, I like surprises, and I'm *still* excited watching my plants grow =D (and my husband is still smiling at me, happily watching me be so excited over it
)
starting to feel like odd man out here... I'm happy as a pig in mud with the new plants... if we get more colors or seeds or resources down the road, fine, but right now is fine too, and the plants exceed what I was previously expecting from a batch of "new plants"
Amidst all the griping and insensitivity and heartache, I would like to toss out:
Thanks Sakkarah, we are enjoying the new seeds, plants, and "easter egg" hunt
So when the griping and bitchin does start, don't take it personally
*goes off hoping he hasn't ruined his naysaying, antagonistic trollish image*
Thanks Sakkarah, we are enjoying the new seeds, plants, and "easter egg" hunt
So when the griping and bitchin does start, don't take it personally
*goes off hoping he hasn't ruined his naysaying, antagonistic trollish image*
F
Flora Green
Guest
Too late! Now we know you have heart.
D
Deb
Guest
I may get blasted for this but didnt we have to hunt for our seeds
originally? Yes, we did and Bog things were not that easy back in the
day.
I also am glad the new plants are the way they are. I really can not see
them in any other colors that what they are now. WELL, except
maybe for white hedges. I am just thrilled that gardeners finally
got some lovin after all these years.
So, hopefully all the naysayers
won't discourage the dev team especially Regine from doing anything
else in the future.
We gardeners are suppose to be calm and passive
originally? Yes, we did and Bog things were not that easy back in the
day.
I also am glad the new plants are the way they are. I really can not see
them in any other colors that what they are now. WELL, except
maybe for white hedges
. I am just thrilled that gardeners finallygot some lovin after all these years.
So, hopefully all the naysayers
won't discourage the dev team especially Regine from doing anything
else in the future.
We gardeners are suppose to be calm and passive
I thank you and the rest of the Dev's for going ahead and still coming through with the cocoa trees. I was resigned to the idea of new plants being lost in the mass of changes, updates, and fixes. It's always great to know that the Dev's do listen to us and try very hard to deliver the best they can.
:bowdown:
As a begger I will take what I get and be happy that I got it at all! The easter egg was just an extra bonus.
Regardless of the fact that some of my chars are extremely lame I still get the new seeds.
Many thanks to guildies, former guildies, friends, and people that I know just in passing! I have runes to easy and safe hunting spots, more seeds I can grow, and lots of chocolate ingredients!
It's turned out that I'm also very happy with the new plants - especially foxgloves because I've wanted a potted foxglove *forever*, but never could afford one when I saw one for sale. Now I can have all I want and deco them with some kind of pot to make my own potted foxglove! Also, the thought of an apparently VERY rare pink orfleur has me pretty excited...if what is suspected about the Easter Egg being in the Naturalist Quest turns out to be so.
To those who don't appreciate the bright quest seed colors - two of my current favorites are the fire and pink quest campions - but in the KR client with colored flowers only and green leaves - really nice!
I'm also looking forward to sometime getting additional resources, and the continued linking of Gardening and Cooking.
I was upset about the implementation of the new plants at first, but now that I'm out hunting for seeds when I can, and getting surprised by what pops out of the bowls on day 7, it turns out that I'm having a lot of fun. I've even started a total redesign/redeco on my plant shop to showcase the new plants.
So thank you, Sakkarah, for the new plants!
To those who don't appreciate the bright quest seed colors - two of my current favorites are the fire and pink quest campions - but in the KR client with colored flowers only and green leaves - really nice!
I'm also looking forward to sometime getting additional resources, and the continued linking of Gardening and Cooking.
I was upset about the implementation of the new plants at first, but now that I'm out hunting for seeds when I can, and getting surprised by what pops out of the bowls on day 7, it turns out that I'm having a lot of fun. I've even started a total redesign/redeco on my plant shop to showcase the new plants.
So thank you, Sakkarah, for the new plants!
Regine, nice of you to reply and address this issue. Unfortunately there is no way you can please everyone and some people won't be happy no matter what you do or say.
I love the new plants and have been having fun growing them.
Now if they would fix it where I could tend to them while locked down instead of having to unlock them everyday or leave them in my backpack then I would be really really happy.
Now if they would fix it where I could tend to them while locked down instead of having to unlock them everyday or leave them in my backpack then I would be really really happy.
B
Beastmaster
Guest
Not giving us seeds on the new plants in order to keep the system chugging along is fine. Throwing in some content at the last minute to pacify folks because of time constraints, iffy. That leads to bugs/unintended consequences like the rare fire cactus.
Requiring that you fight for everything in the game is showing either a lack of imagination or laziness. Sure the vast majority of players can hunt down the mobs needed for the seeds. By throwing this in at the last moment and not scheduling any time for it, we were sold short. Quests could have been established for the seeds. Cross pollination should have been easy to do with an adjustment so the pollinated parent only yielded 1 seed.
Most everyone is happy for any new content we get. But its like the poor beggars, we get tired of bread and water and need a little pizza every now and then.
Requiring that you fight for everything in the game is showing either a lack of imagination or laziness. Sure the vast majority of players can hunt down the mobs needed for the seeds. By throwing this in at the last moment and not scheduling any time for it, we were sold short. Quests could have been established for the seeds. Cross pollination should have been easy to do with an adjustment so the pollinated parent only yielded 1 seed.
Most everyone is happy for any new content we get. But its like the poor beggars, we get tired of bread and water and need a little pizza every now and then.
*sighs*I may get blasted for this but didnt we have to hunt for our seeds
originally? Yes, we did and Bog things were not that easy back in the
day.
I also am glad the new plants are the way they are. I really can not see
them in any other colors that what they are now. WELL, except
maybe for white hedges
got some lovin after all these years.
So, hopefully all the naysayers
won't discourage the dev team especially Regine from doing anything
else in the future.
We gardeners are suppose to be calm and passive
I'm seriously not trying to dump on all that Sakkarah has done...although I guess it must seem like it to some. The new plants are lovely and I never said they weren't...well okay, except one moment of complete dispair several posts ago right after she said "it's not going to change" ...but honestly I am happy we have new decoing plants. I don't even mind the hunting of the seeds (and just fyi boglings gave seeds too and were quite easy to kill). I am just really really bummed there won't be color to them...and would have been no colors at all except for a very accidental fact that the naturalist seed quest may give new plants out. (heck, I'd even love it if we'd have a random chance of getting a limited number of colored plants just when hunting)
Honestly it's just something I'm very very passionate about and that is all I am trying to do is convey that passion. If Sakkarah in any way felt I was dumping on her work, I'm terribly sorry about that. It most assuredly wasn't my intention. I love plants, what can I say? (and the new plants are definitely cool)
F
Flora Green
Guest
Hunting the seeds on boglings is nothing compared to this system. Since Regine is dead set on keeping the plants as non-seed producers, she could at least make it practical for growing and organizing by labeling the seeds. We would still have to slay the creatures in each group and the seeds would drop randomly. We might need to kill 15 kappas in a row before we get a small hedge. But, at least then we could plant all of the hedges in the same bag or section of our shops. Having 15 seeds labeled the same and ending up with a mess once they bloom is highly annoying.