New Client: Don't reinvent the wheel

[Old Man of UO]

Well for your sake Old Man I hope they don't make it so damn hard to get it just to run and use. KR failed because few have that kind of patience any more.

I agree with you there!

However, with about two hours of hard drive defrags, 15 minutes to download the BB interface, another few minutes to make tweaks to the User Settings and most people can make it stable. I wrote up a short guide on tweaking to help a friend load it and get started and it makes a world of difference. It took me several weeks to figure out how to do what can be done in one afternoon. Lots of computer memory and a bit of patience are the keys.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

I agree with you there!

However, with about two hours of hard drive defrags, 15 minutes to download the BB interface, another few minutes to make tweaks to the User Settings and most people can make it stable. I wrote up a short guide on tweaking to help a friend load it and get started and it makes a world of difference. It took me several weeks to figure out how to do what can be done in one afternoon. Lots of computer memory and a bit of patience are the keys.

You should link your thread to your guide in your signature to help others then.

 

[Duskofdead]

I have a totally modern system, that runs games like World of Warcraft, Oblivion, etc. etc., like butter.

It's not the newest, hottest PC you could possibly buy today, but it should be MORE than ample in every regard for UO.

Yet, in the KR client (which of course I had to use when I first returned on the free trial download, which is the KR client), I have .... "a little lag, all over." From pushing a button to opening a bag. And if I'm near CD, or really any heavy combat (say a champ spawn) this bizarre thing happens where the game will choke, just for a moment, and then my character is trotting off in some direction--- even if I was standing stationary before. And it's hard to get him to stop. I think I SORTA figured out the macro system, but, no matter how I set them up, they bug up and stop working after so many repetitions. I end up having to clear them and reset them from scratch to get them to work again. I have no idea why that happens.

To me, the only thing BETTER about KR is the minimap (shows healers and such, and your body) and SOME elements of the crafting menu. In overall UI and game performance, I consider it terrible especially considering it was supposed to be an "upgrade."

I don't have a '97 computer using Win95, and I still have many issues with KR in terms of performance and bugs. And frankly didn't care enough for the superficial facelift of the graphics KR has to trade it off for functional performance and consistently working macros. So off it went. Mondain's Legacy and I never looked back.

As long as 2d is supported, I will remain in 2d. Even if that means there are areas I cannot access. If 3d is "required", I may duck back out. I don't like WOW as much (anywhere near as much, actually) as UO. But if I'm going to be forced to play a pseudo 3d poor interface/UI laggy UO client, I might as well be playing a 3d good interface smooth running WOW client for the same money.

P.S. There are other bizarre mechanics differences between the games that are incomprehensible. Like why can't I figure out how to undress an NPC vendor in the 3d client? Why doesn't dragging clothes off the paperdoll work like in the 2d? I still have no answer for this and guildies have had me redress their vendors for them if they use KR.

 

[Old Man of UO]

You should link your thread to your guide in your signature to help others then.

Sorry, but I never posted it. I could clean it up and post it, but wasn't sure if anyone else wanted it.

Mostly, I was hoping the new SA client would be available by now.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I have a totally modern system, that runs games like World of Warcraft, Oblivion, etc. etc., like butter.

It's not the newest, hottest PC you could possibly buy today, but it should be MORE than ample in every regard for UO.

Yet, in the KR client (which of course I had to use when I first returned on the free trial download, which is the KR client), I have .... "a little lag, all over." From pushing a button to opening a bag. And if I'm near CD, or really any heavy combat (say a champ spawn) this bizarre thing happens where the game will choke, just for a moment, and then my character is trotting off in some direction--- even if I was standing stationary before. ...

I had the same issues before I started tweaking, the "a little lag, all over." I got the same lag opening a bag, and Luna was impossible to walk though. Hitting ctrl-shift to bring up the object bars would lock my screen up for several seconds. I hit on the idea of using "ctrl-shift" as a bench mark to see what effects my tweaks were having. The object bars now pop-up and disappear instantly. KR seems to be very memory intensive and you need at least 2GB. KR runs very smoothly on Vista 64 and 8GB of memory, and even a modest 3D graphics card.

The problem is, not every computer is the same and the same User Settings don't have the same affect from one computer to another.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

In short, if you want to attract new players and have a large playerbase: create UO 2 with a proper 3D-rendering engine from scratch and end up with something that you can market. If you want to retain your existing playerbase: improve what we already have and focus more on in-game content. Going half-way and designing yet another sub-par client that will attain little market exposure isn't an option and will please nobody; just waste your money.

Them's be my views. =)

Exactly, Cynth. You're spot on with your observations. Thank you for posting.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

The market is DIFFERENT. It hasn't just "moved", it's different. There are kids in the MMORPG market today who were in diapers when UO came out, or not even born yet. There are 6, 8, 11 , 14 year olds, 17 year olds, 21 year olds, whose first MMORPG was World of Warcraft. Those people, I'm sorry, are never going to come to UO. It's like trying to draw people back to Atari from the S-NES.

Exactly. And most of those kids wouldn't even play UO if they got sick of WoW or the like. They'd just load up the 360 and play Call of Duty or GoW 2.

It's the core players who will see UO to the end (and those returning players they may be able to attract back) and EA would do well to cater to them. F' the new players; they won't save the game.

 

[Teeshy]

Let the Developers do their job and learn from the good and bad of both clients, and come up with a better client. Please DO continue to work on the new SA client and make it even better!

Indeed! I'm really looking forward to the SA client =) There's two reasons I don't play KR as much as I would like to - when I'm running around too much I get a little seasick (so I tend to use it for non-battle activities), and with the patches being so big, and being on 28k dialup, I can't keep it patched up =)

 

[Canucklehead73]

Well I would agree somewhat with the OP the majority of it is nonsense imho, with alot of exageration and personal bias thrown in, and you cannot expect rational debate with blinders on...

Sure KR has/had problems, game stopping issues granted, but that does not equate that a new client will always have the same flaws. Problems can be rectified. It is called learning... Biggest flaw for KR was the stupid deadline.

New graphics are just that, new graphics, the OP would have everyone assume new graphics equates to FLASHY or EYE CANDY, basically irrelevant useless garbage only idiots would appreciate. But I would argue that new graphics, when done right, can keep the theme without making the game look like it is from 1995 a ten year OLD game. Any casual observer will simply not give it the time of day.

I feel for the OP and I agree on certain levels of thier post, if you cannot do the things in-game you want to do or have done in the past the game becomes broken for you... I cannot play KR for several reasons but I would rather they fix those issues than make me keep playing the old 2D client with new content.

The idea that nobody wanted to play KR because they liked the 2D client is a mighty stretch, I don't play KR... Is this because I like the 2D client? No! It is because KR has game stopping issues for me, and has NOTHING to do with 2D being "better" To say everyone who is not playing KR because they think 2D is better is a bogus statement.

2D is an old POS... Sure it works for the most part, but it is old, crappy looking, crappy sounding, pixelated, tile based, clunky 1990's software.

I'll conclude with this... If they release a new client with smooth sharp looking graphics and animations, interesting and improved funtions/concepts, slick PvP functionality (a must), a client that doesn't crash, and allows players a UI that allows them to keep playing the game the way they have (ie keep functionality) and keeps with the UO theme... I guarantee players will jump on board.

 

[Maplestone]

I think this is a case where Mythic/EA has to walk and chew gum at the same time.

The premature birth of KR torpedoed any chance of getting the majority of players to migrate, and even so, I for one underestimated how tightly tied peoples' imaginations had become tied to the pixels they know. They had no choice but to go back to the drawing board on SA and make it 2d-compatible (which they have humbly done - so they do get the idea that there are many, many diehards who will ... um ... die hard).

But at the same time, there has to be an eye on the future. Some may disagree, but I don't see UO as a museum piece. It's never going to be 1999 again - even if we froze the game and never changed a pixel, we players would still be changing, aging, maturing, seeing the world go by, eventually fading away into the night. Rather, I see UO as a living game, one that has to live in a world full of other game. And a part of that means that even as we keep Brittania and all our history within it intact, we need to keep moving forward into the future.

Another way to look at it: the SA client is UO2. It has simply been built to run on the same servers as the original UO. Plain 2D UO is being allowed to share in all of UO2's new content. The fact that the subscriptions are identicle is pure coincidence

(I don't know if that's comforting ... hopefully it at least didn't come across as antagonistic)

 

[Duskofdead]

LOL! If the KR client has "game stopping issues" for you, that's a pretty darn good basis upon which to say the 2d is better.

For me it's not game stopping so much as game disrupting. I can't have macros screw up or my character start trotting off randomly ins ome direction in the middle of a fight. Yet KR did both to me. 2d is better.

Sounds like a last-ditch attempt at fanboyism to say nothing was bad about KR?

 

[Madrid]

Please reinvent the wheel.

I want the game to grow.

That's where I'm at. UO 2d should always be available for the diehards that want to use strictly that client. I refuse to play on the 2D client anymore after becoming accustomed to UOKR.

I can't wait to see the Stygian Abyss client. If they can get UO to something similiar to what Titan Quest had going UO would be insane! Keep upgrading UO and keeping it up with the times say me!


Keep it comming Dev's! Onward..forward!

 

[Canucklehead73]

LOL! If the KR client has "game stopping issues" for you, that's a pretty darn good basis upon which to say the 2d is better.

For me it's not game stopping so much as game disrupting. I can't have macros screw up or my character start trotting off randomly ins ome direction in the middle of a fight. Yet KR did both to me. 2d is better.

Sounds like a last-ditch attempt at fanboyism to say nothing was bad about KR?

Did you even read my post? Where did I say one good thing about KR? this is my point about talking with blinders on, you only see one thing even if is plain in front of your face... fanboyism? Look in the mirror.

My comment was simple... I play 2D because it is working for me, not because I would rather play 2D than a new up to date client. Try reading this time.

 

[Duskofdead]

Did you even read my post? Where did I say one good thing about KR? this is my point about talking with blinders on, you only see one thing even if is plain in front of your face... fanboyism? Look in the mirror.

My comment was simple... I play 2D because it is working for me, not because I would rather play 2D than a new up to date client. Try reading this time.

I'm a fanboy of ......................................................... ?

If KR WORKED well, at least as well as 2d, more people would play it.

It doesn't.

Yet another attempt to hybrid 2d-3d "revamp" the client, for some unknown target audience (as discussed heavily already, it's not going to bring in WOW'ers or more modern/mainstream MMO'ers, you'd need a full on UO2 brought completely up to modern snuff for that, and a lot more advertising than EA has ever shown an inclination to spend on UO related projects) seems a waste.

The fans that already exist, are not demanding a 3d client. A supply is being created for something for which there is no real demand. No one is quitting because "you haven't given me 3d." People are not COMING, perhaps, because of no 3d. But even KR was, by graphics candy standards, obsolete when it was out the door. And I have seen no big influx of new players-- virtually everyone I talk to is newly returned, perhaps. But any theft from other MMO's seems to be marginal at best.

I think it's a waste of money. If EA is serious about mainstreaming UO, put money into UO2. I don't see what this is going to accomplish honestly.

 

[Ender]

lol @ WoW being eye-candy, it has pretty mediocre graphics, pretty good for an MMO, but there are better. LOTRO looks better, and from the screens Darkfall does too IMO.

 

[Duskofdead]

lol @ WoW being eye-candy, it has pretty mediocre graphics, pretty good for an MMO, but there are better. LOTRO looks better, and from the screens Darkfall does too IMO.

Go and ask anyone in the newer MMO's to try UO.

Let me know how hard they laugh at you after they see screenies, then tell me graphics don't matter if your goal is to bring in large numbers of new players.

Besides, what point are you making really? WOW's older than LOTRO, and much older than Darkfall. But WOW has what... 6 million subscribers? UO has what.... 150k? If you're saying graphics don't matter to subscriber base since WOW's graphics "are mediocre", then, you've proved my point. EA is wasting its money on a better engine for original UO.

 

[Ender]

Go and ask anyone in the newer MMO's to try UO.

Let me know how hard they laugh at you after they see screenies, then tell me graphics don't matter if your goal is to bring in large numbers of new players.

Yeah, I know UO's graphics suck horribly. I've tried showing it to several friends, and they lol'd hard.

 

[Duskofdead]

It's just aggravating because it's like watching someone wreck their car exactly the same way, twice.

Or even your car, haha.

I think a lot of us, even those of us who are "excited" to see SA, could live without it. We're not threatening to quit if we don't get a 3d client.

And I think the "mainstream" market out there, is not going to be convinced to come to a 10 year old nearly abandoned MMO because it got an engine upgrade. Seriously, I don't think they will.

And none of these lessons were learned from KR, which was basically already an attempt to do this.

So, it's just frustrating. I lean more and more towards thinking there is no real "vision" or leadership here about UO, but rather, EA tossing some money at contracted programmer teams here and there saying "improve it! We don't care what you do!"

 

[GAMBIT35]

Indeed! I'm really looking forward to the SA client =) There's two reasons I don't play KR as much as I would like to - when I'm running around too much I get a little seasick (so I tend to use it for non-battle activities), and with the patches being so big, and being on 28k dialup, I can't keep it patched up =)

28k dialup....WTF....Dude, put that comp in a museum.

 

[Maplestone]

Let me know how hard they laugh at you after they see screenies, then tell me graphics don't matter if your goal is to bring in large numbers of new players.

I'd point out Runescape has 15 million active accounts and its graphics are nothing to write home about.

 

[Teeshy]

PC has nothing at all to do with connection speed =)

Maplestone - I was going to say the same about Runescape =) It's a fun little level grindy game, and the graphics are not much better (if at all!) than UO

 

[canary]

If they made a client that LOOKED DECENT (yes GrimmOmen, I'm talking to you and your sad sad sad defense of KR) I would totally switch clients.

KR was buggy. It was 'muddy' looking. It has serious graphics issues. Most could hardly play on it the first time around and got fed up with trying.

If the KR client was actually an UPGRADE in terms of looks and feel, I think most would just to it. What they gave us, however, most felt like it wasn't even a sideways step to being a superior client.

 

[Duskofdead]

I'd point out Runescape has 15 million active accounts and its graphics are nothing to write home about.

Okay since I'm going back and forth having to swat the same "rebuttals" over and over, let me rephrase it clearly.

1) If you want to "re-emerge" with a huge splash into the mainstream, and capture a ton of new gamers, you are NOT going to do it by taking a 10 year old game and giving it a strained makeover. You need to just get serious, take the investment hit and go for a full fledged, modern-day, UO2. That is the only way you stand any serious chance of major modern-day MMO numbers coming in. And that will include graphics. There is no point making a major new MMO game engine with outdated graphics on launch day. It can only hurt you and not help you.

2) Graphics do not necessarily bring new players, or keep players. A lot of us still play in the 2d despite being a newer client available as-is. Especially when slapped over a 10 year old engine. WOW isn't cutting edge. It's got 6 million accounts. LOTRO looks better than WOW or UO. It's pretty much dead. With that in mind, what exactly is the SA facelift going to.... oomph into existing UO? Do people seriously believe tons of new players will be attracted in? Let's be realistic about how EA has treated UO, advertised it, and distributed it... before running away on fantasy scenarios about how "oh yes... people will come! It could happen!"

 

[Duskofdead]

I'd point out Runescape has 15 million active accounts and its graphics are nothing to write home about.

I'm sure Pogo Games has even more.

However, that's kinda irrelevant..

 

[Maplestone]

How does that rebutt the runescape example? It's an example of a game that has been constantly evolving, from a graphical patch over a MUD, to something now between 2D and KR and they've done it very, very successfully.

 

[canary]

Just remember a HUGE number of Runescape players play for free,

DOFUS has a huge amount of players, but, they too have a lot of them that are non paying.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

KR/SA/whatever it decides to be called when done could solve poverty, end war, and stop so-called "climate change" and the same people that have bashed it endlessly will still do so.

It could hand out winning Powerball numbers and certain "2d or nothing" posters would still whine about the fact that it exists at all.

People have a choice, they can either help UO grow, or they can in a Ludditic manner chain UO to an outdated platform that will ensure UO never has a chance to grow.

KR has had a lot of problems, even the most staunch supporter of the client will EASILY and FREELY admit that (in fact it was the LACK of KR updates over the past year that created the Modders Exchage in the first place as the KR Players' Patching Project), but the strides the client has made since it was (prematurely) released have been HUGE, and the additions and fixes put forward by the contributors to the Exchange have taken it even further.

But even for its problems, the power of the client and quality of the User Interface is VASTLY improved (so that EXTERNAL PROGRAMS are NOT NEEDED).

Yes the new client takes a bit of time to learn... yes, the graphics take time to adjust to (consider the fact that you're having to deal with up to 11 YEARS' of mental familiarity, so you HAVE to give yourself time to adjust to the new look.

But I guess it's easier to simply dismiss the new client before ever giving a real chance either personally or as a whole of the game.

*shrug*

 

[Ender]

Okay since I'm going back and forth having to swat the same "rebuttals" over and over, let me rephrase it clearly.

1) If you want to "re-emerge" with a huge splash into the mainstream, and capture a ton of new gamers, you are NOT going to do it by taking a 10 year old game and giving it a strained makeover. You need to just get serious, take the investment hit and go for a full fledged, modern-day, UO2. That is the only way you stand any serious chance of major modern-day MMO numbers coming in. And that will include graphics. There is no point making a major new MMO game engine with outdated graphics on launch day. It can only hurt you and not help you.

2) Graphics do not necessarily bring new players, or keep players. A lot of us still play in the 2d despite being a newer client available as-is. Especially when slapped over a 10 year old engine. WOW isn't cutting edge. It's got 6 million accounts. LOTRO looks better than WOW or UO. It's pretty much dead. With that in mind, what exactly is the SA facelift going to.... oomph into existing UO? Do people seriously believe tons of new players will be attracted in? Let's be realistic about how EA has treated UO, advertised it, and distributed it... before running away on fantasy scenarios about how "oh yes... people will come! It could happen!"

LOTRO dead? I've seen a hell of a lot more people on it recently than on UO in the last... year, maybe a little more.

 

[Duskofdead]

LOTRO dead? I've seen a hell of a lot more people on it recently than on UO in the last... year, maybe a little more.

Is it 10 years old?

 

[MalagAste]

Ok...... I've spoken on this subject many, many times...

I prefer playing in 2d.... I don't want to learn a new game.... I get Extremely frustrated in KR because I can't do simple things like talk, chat in party/alliance or guild..... I can't seem to join a party.... I can't understand how to do several things I used to know how to do....

I miss UOAssist....... I still can't figure out how to set my macro's for bandage use..... as KR seems to "Forget" I have some.... So I die more often.... rather annoying..... but I'll give KR this..... with the settings and things I have been able to do........ I'm WAY faster.... and I'm not talking just a bit.... I'm talking VERY noticeably faster than I am in 2d!.... so much so that I would really like to figure out how the heck to play and be happy in KR...

However..... there is one MAJOR thing wrong with KR that so far isn't fixed added or addressed that I would VERY much like to see in a new client..... I know a lot of folk probably don't care and aren't concerned.... but as a role-player who enjoys writing and posting stories this is something that is a MUST... in 2d I use UO Journal Converter to save store and keep track of EVERYTHING my characters do in-game.... this way when I go to write a story or even wish to post meeting minutes they are all right there in my journal..... KR does not have a journal saving feature.... and UO Journal Converter will not work with KR..... That's something I'm not willing to give up.... I'm not about to take up shorthand... and I really like having my journals....

I agree to a point with the OP about not reinventing the wheel.... but you can update the client and the graphics without changing the entire way the game is played.... I don't get what the point was of changing the way you talk.....

And I'll say this..... the DEV's and EA games needs to realize what makes UO so popular with those of us who haven't ever left or those of us who keep coming back...... It's not about just PvP it surely isn't graphics... it's not because my machine won't play WoW or Can't play WoW.... It's because "I" won't play WoW.... WoW isn't a game... It's a system of Quests.... Boring!... I don't want to be entertained... I want to entertain..... I like being in control of my surroundings.... I like feeling like I can change things, Like I have an effect on things..... and I like the complexity of UO..... don't dumb up my game..... and don't "force" me into something..... the flexibility and the ability to customize so many things in the game is key....

I don't mind having the graphics or the client updated.... what I mind is having to learn my game all over.... and not having things I've grown accustomed to....

Many folk would love to actually revert.... Now I won't go so far as to say I want Fel only.... But I too miss pre-AoS.... I don't need more land mass.... I need more people.... UO is not going to compete with WoW... ever.... I don't want it too.... If I wanted WoW I'd play WoW.... Truth is I don't want my game dictated to me.... I want to be able to immerse myself in the game.... explore... and create my own world... and a community with my friends...

What really needs to happen is an end to hacking, cheating, scamming, scripting..... fixing the economy, fixing the bugs, you can fix the graphics if you want but I really don't care..... but put the focus back on community... and quit making UO a Solo game.... If I wanted a Solo game I'd play a console game or I'd play the Sims..... I want the community....

 

[Duskofdead]

How does that rebutt the runescape example? It's an example of a game that has been constantly evolving, from a graphical patch over a MUD, to something now between 2D and KR and they've done it very, very successfully.

Unless it's strictly pay to play, it's apples and oranges.

You can make a truly craptastic game and people will play it if it's free.

Think people would pay 14.99/month to play Nethack?

 

[Ender]

Is it 10 years old?

Nope, but it's also making enough money to stay open and updated as a new game. Which means it had to do decent at least, right? Flops don't typically stay open long if they're new.

And remember UO was going to be canceled a while ago, and it can't even cost that much money to run now...

 

[Duskofdead]

Quick comment about the "luddite" clinging to 2d:

1) People who've played UO for 10+ years yeah... huge shock here, aren't looking for some other game to play or some entirely different client they have to re-learn from scratch. Want a quarter for everytime someone has said, "I wish they'd just work on, improve, and fix things already here, instead of trying to make hybrid 3d clients and changing everything?"

EA's mistake, over and over and over, has been not learning from mistakes when it comes to UO. They've been quite Dubya in the sense that when something fails they just seem to do more of it-- whether it's more of something unpopular, or neglecting something that needs attention.

2) I had no idea 2d was still supported hwen I came back from a many years hiatus and downlaoded the trial client, which is KR. I played it for a full week and a half. I hadn't touched the 2d in 6 or 7 years. The macro system didn't work. It was buggy. Everything lagged. I'd have to reset my macros five or six times per play session. That's fatal when it comes to bandages or healing spell macros. The new ability hotbar, while a good idea, wasn't big enough. It would have been better to just carry over the 2d client's macro system entirely unchanged so we could set exact macros to whatever key we liked. My character would often not stop moving when I told it to. Chat screen and minimap and other draggables would get stickied to my pointer and even when I would click they wouldn't stop moving around. The game is, for my purposes, unplayable. Oh I COULD play it. And die a lot more, and not enjoy it as much, and reset my macros several times per day. It just isn't fun at all and isn't functional for me. I don't have time to work out bugs in the middle of a fight or while trying to make 30 bolts of cloth. Those of you who do not have these issues, or do not mind working around them, more power to you. But don't smugly say those of us who find the 2d client vastly more playable are just a bunch of throwbacks who resist any positive change. You are speaking out the wrong end of your body.

 

[Duskofdead]

Nope, but it's also making enough money to stay open and updated as a new game. Which means it had to do decent at least, right? Flops don't typically stay open long if they're new.

And remember UO was going to be canceled a while ago, and it can't even cost that much money to run now...

Point is, throwing out some other MMO of totally different age and technology level, which came out in a time when the MMORPG was a much more mainstream, widely recognized and widely familiar game genre than when UO launched, and using it to prove or disprove something about UO is erroneous.

LOTRO along with Vanguard and many others are, for the standards of the time they were released, flops. Even if their launch numbers or their numbers one year after launch dwarfed UO's numbers at the 11 year mark, you could argue they're even worse off given that the standards of their time and the capacity of the genre is in the millions.

Saying a game that is 2, 3, 4 years old has numbers similar or a little higher than UO at 11 years is a black mark against the newer game.. not UO.

The "point?"

The lesson from games like Tabula, LOTRO and Vanguard is, just having an MMO in a fancy graphics game engine is no guarantee of success. That is not the sole thing that lures people to an MMO, and given UO is still here after 11 years and most of its players prefer the 2d client, it's not the strongest thing that will keep people in an MMO.

So my question is, given the poor support, poor budgeting, poor customer service, poor advertising, poor distribution that EA has consistently shown UO... WHAT in the world should lead a ratioanl person to believe that a nice SA engine is going to revamp it and attract lots of new people?

I see no real precedent to believe so.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I don't see UO as a museum piece. It's never going to be 1999 again - even if we froze the game and never changed a pixel, we players would still be changing, aging, maturing, seeing the world go by, eventually fading away into the night. Rather, I see UO as a living game, one that has to live in a world full of other game. And a part of that means that even as we keep Brittania and all our history within it intact, we need to keep moving forward into the future.

Well put. I agree that a new client is something to consider, but it needs to be one that doesn't take the essence of the game away -- and that "essence" is not easy to define or to distill.

As I said, the past has shown us that every new client has gone down in flames. It's logical for the community to assume the next one will as well, especially if it's being programed by people who weren't actual players of the game. (I have no idea if that's true or not, but it would be recipe for disaster.)

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Besides, what point are you making really? WOW's older than LOTRO, and much older than Darkfall. But WOW has what... 6 million subscribers? UO has what.... 150k? If you're saying graphics don't matter to subscriber base since WOW's graphics "are mediocre", then, you've proved my point. EA is wasting its money on a better engine for original UO.

Indeed.

 

[Redxpanda]

I know this isn't the thief forum but i am going to attempt to steal this thread...

Anyone notice the *Devs are seriously MIA today....I started to create a thread so we can know they are still here but i know they will just move it so....

The holidays are over but i think they are still working the fruitcake through their system

 

[kelmo]

I know this isn't the thief forum but i am going to attempt to steal this thread...

Anyone notice the mods are seriously MIA today....I started to create a thread so we can know they are still here but i know they will just move it so....

The holidays are over but i think they are still working the fruitcake through their system

The Mods are here... Is it the game devs you are looking for? I can't stand fruit cake...

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

it needs to be one that doesn't take the essence of the game away -- and that "essence" is not easy to define or to distill.

KR doesn't take the "essence" of the game away any more than any other change in the past 11 years.

As I said, the past has shown us that every new client has gone down in flames. It's logical for the community to assume the next one will as well

When the community AUTOMATICALLY takes this assumption it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When everyone doesn't even give the new client a chance or insists on using completely outdated arguments to keep other people from even trying out the client, THEY are the ones that doom the client to fail, not the client itself.

 

[Duskofdead]

...

it needs to be one that doesn't take the essence of the game away -- and that "essence" is not easy to define or to distill.

KR doesn't take the "essence" of the game away any more than any other change in the past 11 years.

As I said, the past has shown us that every new client has gone down in flames. It's logical for the community to assume the next one will as well

When the community AUTOMATICALLY takes this assumption it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When everyone doesn't even give the new client a chance or insists on using completely outdated arguments to keep other people from even trying out the client, THEY are the ones that doom the client to fail, not the client itself.

And if "the community" is all of a certain assumption about a planned, expensive change..... and that assumption is negative.....

what kind of competent head dev, programmer, or business decisionmaker would shove it through anyhow?

These arguments of "well it's just you guys whining and complaining over nothing" fall a bit flat given that WE ARE THE SUBSCRIPTION PAYERS! If we don't like it, that's a bit relevant!

People have said, over and over, what the want from EA. Take that money developing SA and put it towards hiring some damn GM's and providing some support, banning cheaters, a little real customer support, and spend a little money making sure the game is distributed at least a few copies in stores all over, and advertise free trials better.

That'd do way more than the flop that is KR, and the probably-flop-to-be that SA seems.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

the probably-flop-to-be that SA seems.

The pointlessness of this thread in 8 words.

 

[Redxpanda]

The Mods are here... Is it the game devs you are looking for? I can't stand fruit cake...

Typo, i meant Devs *fix

 

[Duskofdead]

...

the probably-flop-to-be that SA seems.

The pointlessness of this thread in 8 words.

Thank you for your valuable contribution of "I think this thread is pointless."

You may go.

 

[AesSedai]

- We all love how swiftly UO can be coded and updated with the Legacy Client, right? (aye, that's supposed to be sarcasm)
Based on that alone, I'm hopeful that some that disliked KR will give SA a chance, after its significant upgrade and overhaul from the initial KR client...

The main things that I see continuing to hinder UO after SA is released are: those that will still steadfastly prefer 2D and the inevitable glitches it will still have for awhile (don't hate me for wanting UO to evolve / and I won't hate any devout 2D fans for their refusal to give the new client -not KR, but- the new client a chance).
Why?
Because I don't see how they can give the server-side an overhaul/upgrade, when they still have to support the non-versatile spaghetti-code that 2D has become (which brings me back to a primary complaint of many UOers throughout its history ~ brings me back to my first sentence.
& Feel free to do the A to B to C to A -loop, that I just wrote, as much as you like; because that's how these threads tend to go, when we are contemplating things that we truly do not know).

 

[Duskofdead]

The main things that I see continuing to hinder UO after SA is released are: those that will still steadfastly prefer 2D and the inevitable glitches it will still have for awhile (don't hate me for wanting UO to evolve / and I won't hate any devout 2D fans for their refusal to give the new client -not KR, but- the new client a chance).
Why?
Because I don't see how they can give the server-side an overhaul/upgrade, when they still have to support the non-versatile spaghetti-code that 2D has become (which brings me back to a primary complaint of many UOers throughout its history ~ brings me back to my first sentence.
& Feel free to do the A to B to C to A -loop, that I just wrote, as much as you like; because that's how these threads tend to go, when we are contemplating things that we truly do not know).

I think the prob is many of us would just like to play UO with constant attempts to revamp it and turn it into some mongrel child of WOW, Everquest and Diablo 2 in the name of "improving it and keeping it from going stale."

If I wanted to play those games... well, there are better alternatives already out there.

I think people who are fans of UO as it is/was, and have been loyal customers all this time, and still prefer the 2d and all that good stuff, are not very keen on the constant attempt to push the game to sorta be a hybrid half-UO2 essentially brand new game, with brand new interface, you have to learn more or less from scratch.

And, I'm not really sure why that's such a huge mystery to people.

If they want to make UO2, they should just do it. I think they're wasting money for lukewarm to negative reception among the existing subscribers, and little notice whatsoever from non-subscribers who are playing other, more modern MMO engines.

If anyone at EA seriously thinks force-herding an 11 year old game into newer graphics is going to seriously rebound UO's subscription numbers I think they probably should be fired. It's a down economy after all and no need to pay people who have no good sense.

A UO2, might have a chance. Brand new game, brand new design, current engine, from scratch. People will consider it. People won't say "oh look, a graphics upgrade to an 11 year old game. I'm in." So, this is basically a waste of resources better spent on things sorely lacking.... support maybe.

 

[Ender]

2D plain sucks, it's that simple. The only reason to keep it is because it's what you're used to. Even KR right now would be a lot better if they fixed the fact that it crashes randomly. (Although to be honest, that problem isn't exclusive to KR)

 

[Duskofdead]

2D plain sucks, it's that simple. The only reason to keep it is because it's what you're used to. Even KR right now would be a lot better if they fixed the fact that it crashes randomly. (Although to be honest, that problem isn't exclusive to KR)

This is getting silly. You could say that about any 11 year old game you still keep cause you love to pop it in and play it. "Compared to Oblivion, this game sucks but...."

 

[maujai]

I say reinvent the wheel. I think it is time that UO move up to some real 3D graphics. If UO is to survive many more years it will not be on the legacy 2D graphics or whatever this UO version of 3D graphics are. I am sure people would definitely come back to a real UO3D.

 

[AesSedai]

Duskofdead & folks:
Rather than whittle away at the now; I'm just going to wait and see what SA will be.
Unless EA sacrifices UO, then Mythic will deliver UO:SA.
We will all be able to make a better judgment of UO, once that happens.
Until then, enjoy a-b-c-and back to-a. ~Turn 8 sideways, if want to complete the loop.

 

[AesSedai]

-xStratics' Lag Saverx-

(Perhaps make the default posts ~20-50 rather than 100? Because it doesn't lag so much until the first page, 100 posts, is nearly full)