New Client: Don't reinvent the wheel

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I understand that this game is made by a company whose goal it is to make money and the intent of (another) new client is to, hopefully, attract more players who will equal more subscriptions. Simple enough. But, like all questions, it's not that simple.

The UO we played in '98 is not the UO of today; much has changed - some for the good, but equally as much, if not more, for the bad. With the SA expansion, many changes will come which we may or may not like.

With regard to the new client they are working on, I wish they wouldn't even bother. Remember that survey that came out after the KR "upgrade" asking why we still chose to play the "old" client? Well, I guess they didn't "get it."

The core UO subscribers will not likely migrate to a new client - ever. It's not "UO" for us. You couldn't PvP with the KR client and it looked awful and changed the feel of the game. It wasn't Ultima Online, but was some strange imitation.

Without going on much longer, my wish here is that the company would realize that we PREFER the OLD STYLE client to any updates. That's been proven in the past and will likely prove true in the future. I wish that the company would focus on improving and adding to what we actually enjoy about this game, sticking with the old client.

EA (Mythic): You don't need to reinvent the wheel! History will repeat itself with regard to any new clients. Spend more time on giving the players what they want and let UO go out on a positive note.

To the community: Respond with what you like about the game we play and with regard to the original client. It feels to me like UO is being run by people who aren't actually connected with the nuances of the game - e.g. people who don't play it and maybe who never have. (That's a scary thought.)

 

[DuttyD]

I want a new client to eliminate a lot of cheating.

Besides that, '98 UO is not what the general gaming public wants. Good graphics is a big deal now.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

I want a new client to eliminate a lot of cheating.

Besides that, '98 UO is not what the general gaming public wants. Good graphics is a big deal now.

UO in 2D or it's crappy version of "3D" isn't what the general gaming public wants either. Their best bet is to try to hold on to the players they do have and try to get old players back and hope they bring a friend.

Gamers that I show UO to laugh at it and won't even give it a second thought. If Ultima is to live on it will have to be recreated in a Ultima 2 fashion. Our UO as we know it is on a limited timeline and one day will cease to exist. I predict December 21, 2012...

 

[Goodoljoe]

Many of the ´´old school`` vets have migrated to other games,for the game to advance and attract new players a new client is needed.I do love 2D,brings many memories,but as much people consider UO part of their lives and most fond memories,its just a game,marketing,business,that is all.The content has been stagnant for years,the graphics are old and many things need to be fixed.I dont like KR either,I love 2D,but sometimes you must think with logically and not with only your heart if you know what I mean.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I want a new client to eliminate a lot of cheating.

Besides that, '98 UO is not what the general gaming public wants. Good graphics is a big deal now.

Screw the general gaming public. EA cannot do much of anything to attract younger, WoW players. It's a bad economy and there's not much room (time or money-wise) for more than 1-2 MMOs for the average person.

UO isn't the "general gaming public," it's the UO niche community. My hope would be that they will let it go out on a strong note - actually giving players what they WANT rather than using it as a vehicle to try to attract younger, wide-eyed gamers who wants "good graphics." They won't get them or their parents' money.

UO isn't going to be a "cash cow" for the company, in any way shape or form. But, us long-time players, will stay with it, as we have, because it has a certain "charm," which may or may not be tied to the old client.

Making a new client with a whole new interface is just annoying, really. The end result will be much like the KR (and past) client upgrades. If they tried to force it (with making SA areas new client only areas) it would ensure an unsuccessful expansion.

I just want to hear how other players honestly feel (even Soc and Link) regarding this. We all know UO probably doesn't have another 10 years, but we need to push for it to go out as a memorable experience for the player base, not some miss-matched, hacked-apart game as a result of a sad feeble attempt by a company to squeeze out a few more pennies.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I just want to see the game go out with dignity and enjoy the ride for what it's worth.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The core UO subscribers will not likely migrate to a new client - ever. It's not "UO" for us.

That's fine. The new client isn't being made with "you" in mind. It's being made to bring in new customers. Customers that expect a certain level of sophistication in graphics.

Without going on much longer, my wish here is that the company would realize that we PREFER the OLD STYLE client to any updates.

Who is "we"? Whoever you are, you need to realize that you're not the deciding factor in gaming any longer. There is a new generation of gamer out now, and they demand certain things in their games. Outdated graphics and UI isn't on that list.

I can't help think of the people that refuse to accept change in UO as people that would take Jiffy Pop popcorn, and the labor of standing over a stove shaking the little tin foil container back and forth, over microwave popcorn that you just toss in the microwave and hit a button to cook. Honestly, you need to accept that more people want the Orville Redenbacher and forget about the Jiffy Pop.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I love 2D,but sometimes you must think with logically and not with only your heart if you know what I mean.

It is with logic in mind that I started the topic. The past tells us that people do prefer the old-style client; the past tells us that client upgrades have failed miserably; the past holds many great memories for players who hold found memories, players who have left and who may yearn to return - not for graphics, but for the experience.

A new client will invariably change the game-play mechanics which will invariably change the game itself.

Point: Don't reinvent the wheel, EA (Mythic)!

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

That's fine. The new client isn't being made with "you" in mind. It's being made to bring in new customers. Customers that expect a certain level of sophistication in graphics.

Connor, think about your statement. Do you work for the company?

They won't get these "new gamers" and their (or their parents') money! It's a very bad economy, friend. Like others have posted, UO makes people laugh - even with the "flashy," KR graphics. They're not going to sit down and learn the complexities and nuances of the game when they are dazzled by WoW's eye-candy. UO WILL NOT APPEAL TO THESE FOLKS, but the core community would continue to play for what they enjoy about it.

And I use the term "we" to denote people who think along the same lines, which I think there are a few. If you're not one of them, fine. I'm glad to hear posts from company fan-boys as well. Gotta keep that revenue in mind, right? By the way, why do you care so much about the company attracting new players?

I care about making UO a great game based on its pre-existing merits and characteristics, not on what's good for the company's coffers. I wish you did, too, Connor, but to each their own!

 

[BloodstoneGL]

I want to see them stop scripting, stop cheaters, and fix all the bugs.

I want them to introduce new content without new landmasses all the time that just think out the already thin community even more.

But most of all I want them to make a Pre-AoS shard and just leave it the hell alone. That would keep me from even looking at Darkfall.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

Aminita I think what has just happened it you have realized what many of us have realized in the past. UO is dying and there is no bandage to save it. We just don't know exactly when it's going to bleed out.

Have a stiff drink and enjoy it while you can, our screams have fell on deaf ears for years as will yours.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I want to see them stop scripting, stop cheaters, and fix all the bugs.

I want them to introduce new content without new landmasses all the time that just think out the already thin community even more.

But most of all I want them to make a Pre-AoS shard and just leave it the hell alone. That would keep me from even looking at Darkfall.

Good points. Pre-AOS has been brought up numerous times, but they seem to not be willing to consider this as a possibility.

I like the idea of focusing on and rewarding the existing player base with content updates, items, and events. I think the new EM program is a step in that direction. But you hit the nail on the head; the company needs to focus on the existing player base rather than trying to attract an entirely new one. That's the crux of the argument.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Aminita I think what has just happened it you have realized what many of us have realized in the past. UO is dying and there is no bandage to save it. We just don't know exactly when it's going to bleed out.

Have a stiff drink and enjoy it while you can, our screams have fell on deaf ears for years as will yours.

Well put, friend.

I'm aware that it's slowly dying, but I want to act in a hospice capacity and try to help it to die with some dignity.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I care about making UO a great game based on its pre-existing merits and characteristics, not on what's good for the company's coffers.

The ONLY thing Mythic is concerned about is their "coffers". That's the ONLY thing ANY company is concerned about. UO has to continue to provide a decent ROI or it will shut down. In order for that to happen, there has to be a certain amount of flow of new customers joining. I don't know why you seem to think that WoW is going to get all of the market share in online gaming, as that couldn't be farther from what's actually happening. WoW loses customers too, and their number 1 reason for doing so is the grindfest with endgame. Those players need a game to go to. I'd prefer it be UO than any other. I'm sure Mythic feels the same or they wouldn't be investing their resources in building a new client.

 

[Nine Dark Moons]

i think a new client will help attract new players who have been playing mmorpgs for the past 11 years. they expect increasingly improved graphics. it's what draws them to games. it's not until later that content begins to bore them and they move on to the next big release.

i do wish that each expansion could have contained updated graphics while the prior ones did not. only becuase that would allow them to release expansions faster and with less bugs, it would also ensure the older code didn't break so much. it'd be kind of cool if fel contained the graphics of it's day (which, as far as i can tell, is what 2d still is). move to trammel and enjoy updated graphics. move to malas and experience newer, cooler graphics. same with ilsh, tokuno, lost lands, etc. (sorry if i have the order of expansions messed up i didn't start playing until after AoS).

the only other game i play is tomb raider on my playstation. every time a new disk comes out i get to enjoy a large improvement in the graphics and the flow of movement, etc. it's too bad UO couldn't be like that. KR was a big mistake. to try to redraw the art of every single tile was too large a task and it failed. i DO hope that any future expansion will still have an option to play with 2d graphics. but if SA has updated graphics that still retain the magic of UO, i'll consider switching.

 

[Nestorius]

UO was the only online game I played for years. When changes came about like the targeting system or the KR client with the odd backpack and hot bars, I was like WTF are they thinking? It seemed so alien and useless.

I started playing WOW last month and got a little annoyed because I recognized so many features from KR, that make NO SENSE in KR, but fit in fine for WOW. I started picturing UO developers playing WOW all day long, so addicted to the game that they tried to make UO like it.

I'm sad because I was just becoming accustomed to KR, upgrading my computer, enjoying the graphics, and now I know where that sucky non-fitting amateur interface came from... it was plagurized and BADLY. I can't stand it. Where did they hire these people? I hope Mythic can clean up this mess.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

The ONLY I'm sure Mythic feels the same or they wouldn't be investing their resources in building a new client.

I highly doubt the company "feels" that way. Rather, it's a gamble; the hope is that the money, time, and resources put in to developing a new client which will attract a larger player-base, some of whom have never played UO.

History tells us that this is likely not going to happen. I highly doubt that people who have never played UO before will run to it when they get bored with WoW. There are TOO many good-looking games out there, MMO or not and people will spend their time playing something else - Call of Duty on-line, Guitar Hero, etc. I don't think many people leaving WoW will migrate to UO.

Let's not get too far away from my main point, though, which is the core players are what stabilize this game. And I'm sure that many past players would be persuaded to come back if the right things were done. Let's try to get away from always thinking about "new" players.

 

[Bara]

Please reinvent the wheel.

I want the game to grow.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

I started playing WOW last month and got a little annoyed because I recognized so many features from KR, that make NO SENSE in KR, but fit in fine for WOW. I started picturing UO developers playing WOW all day long, so addicted to the game that they tried to make UO like it.

Where did they hire these people? I hope Mythic can clean up this mess.

That's just what I said in a previous post. Wouldn't it be scary if UO was being programed and developed by people who never actually played the game and who do not understand it's nuances and unique characteristics?

Sure, if you've only known the WoWs of the MMO world, and were in charge of the Dev Team, the answer would seem simple. But it's not.

It just seems like the players and the Dev Team (company) are often at odds, much more so than in other games.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Please reinvent the wheel.

I want the game to grow.

It can grow without an entirely new client, right? Define "growth"? Do you mean more content or more players?

 

[Connor_Graham]

Let's try to get away from always thinking about "new" players.

New players are what's going to keep UO going for another 10 years. You may be satisfied with accepting UO's death by attrition in a much shorter time frame, but I'm surely not.

 

[Nine Dark Moons]

Let's not get too far away from my main point, though, which is the core players are what stabilize this game. And I'm sure that many past players would be persuaded to come back if the right things were done. Let's try to get away from always thinking about "new" players.

But... for the past couple of years, the "current player base" seems to hover around 75k-150k players (depending on source). that's tiny compared to the subscriber rates of other games. I do think the higher-ups need to listen to us, it's core player base, and they do seem to be making progress in that direction. But I can also see why they continue trying to attract a much larger player base. Otherwise, really, what's the point of continuing? If they keep things status quo, the player base is just going to continue trickling downwards.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

New players are what's going to keep UO going for another 10 years. You may be satisfied with accepting UO's death by attrition in a much shorter time frame, but I'm surely not.

Even if KR were good enough to attract new players, which it isn't, how are they going to get new players when the game won't even be available in stores?

New players won't even know it exists.

Basically, it was a good idea that was implemented so badly that it is now beyond the point where it can be recovered.

Edit: With EA announcing a second round of cuts, I wouldn't be surprised to see UO scrapped altogether. The language they used in the announcement about focusing on games with the potential to make money doesn't really describe our product.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Even if KR were good enough to attract new players, which it isn't, how are they going to get new players when the game won't even be available in stores?

New players won't even know it exists.

That's why they're redoing KR. I'd be willing to bet that "if" they put out a modern client that actually works and isn't riddled with bugs like KR is, they'd put it out on the shelves.

 

[Nine Dark Moons]

how are they going to get new players when the game won't even be available in stores?
New players won't even know it exists.

EXCELLENT POINT. it's depressing. and makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

That's why they're redoing KR. I'd be willing to bet that "if" they put out a modern client that actually works and isn't riddled with bugs like KR is, they'd put it out on the shelves.

If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Cetric]

EXCELLENT POINT. it's depressing. and makes absolutely no sense to me.

even if they do, would you want to be a newbie and come to a game that is so filled with stuff from the past, and veterans that would quickly throw it in your face that they played uo for 10 years. Or how bout when you call ea customer support, and the indian ****** doesn't even know what ultima online is......

games can't survive forever, im surprised we've gone this long.

 

[Connor_Graham]

If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

I think we all should be hoping that "if" actually happens. If not, I don't see UO lasting past it's failure. Mythic has already shown it's more than willing to shut UO down. If it wasn't for Mark (?) stepping in and talking them into giving it another shot, we'd all be playing something else about now.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

New players are what's going to keep UO going for another 10 years. You may be satisfied with accepting UO's death by attrition in a much shorter time frame, but I'm surely not.

I think you are off your rocker if you think that today's gamers look at the back of a box at the game store and say this look s good I'll try it when looking at UO compared to all the rest of the games out there.

UO needs to increase it's player base but it can not draw enough new customers consistently to keep it alive. It needs to try and bring back the old player base who quit because of the direction the game went it. They need to right some wrongs and focus on getting them back one way or another. It's easier to get someone who has already experienced UO to play again than it is to get someone completely new to even bother.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

I think we all should be hoping that "if" actually happens. If not, I don't see UO lasting past it's failure. Mythic has already shown it's more than willing to shut UO down. If it wasn't for Mark (?) stepping in and talking them into giving it another shot, we'd all be playing something else about now.

I am playing something else.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

EA should just sell it back to Richard Garriott for god's sake.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

... They won't get these "new gamers" and their (or their parents') money! It's a very bad economy, friend. Like others have posted, UO makes people laugh - even with the "flashy," KR graphics. They're not going to sit down and learn the complexities and nuances of the game when they are dazzled by WoW's eye-candy. UO WILL NOT APPEAL TO THESE FOLKS, but the core community would continue to play for what they enjoy about it. ...

See the bold part? That is exactly why UO will only attract really good players. The ones who desire the easy leveling grind can STAY in WOW or whatever. Those who want a challenge of a sophisticated, multi-faceted game will come to UO. The creme de la creme, if you will.

And I use the term "we" to denote people who think along the same lines, which I think there are a few. If you're not one of them, fine. I'm glad to hear posts from company fan-boys as well. Gotta keep that revenue in mind, right? By the way, why do you care so much about the company attracting new players?

While I agree with Connor on this, I can assure you - I am far from fanboy status with EA. I can list scads of reasons why I shouldn't be playing ... but they are overshadowed by the desire for something more complex than the other games can offer.

Why be concerned about attracting new players? One ... maintaining UO as the longest running and eldest of all MMO. Two ... adding more people to communities throughout the shards. Three ... more cash for EA to use to better this game and others in their stable - economics.

I have played levelers - old and new. My online gaming goes all the way back to Meridian 59 and The Realm. UO is the only one of all the games I have played as a customer or tester that has held my attention for over 9 years.

 

[Nestorius]

That's fine. The new client isn't being made with "you" in mind. It's being made to bring in new customers. Customers that expect a certain level of sophistication in graphics.

Who is "we"? Whoever you are, you need to realize that you're not the deciding factor in gaming any longer. There is a new generation of gamer out now, and they demand certain things in their games. Outdated graphics and UI isn't on that list.

Like I think Amanita is saying, 'updating' the client by copying whatever features are popular in the competition isn't necessarily going to modernize the game to attract those new players. What works in WOW (like the UI) was designed for that game.... why would someone seek to apply to a game with completely different mechanics unless they had no idea what UO was about?

If UO goes to 3D, it ought to be UO style 3d and not some inferior and bizarre copycat version of another game. Looking to other games for ideas is a big mistake... with UO, going backwards to the foundation IS the way to modernize the game.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Looking to other games for ideas is a big mistake... with UO, going backwards to the foundation IS the way to modernize the game.

Indeed. Well put, Nestorius; you are a sage and a scholar.

 

[Nexus]

I understand that this game is made by a company whose goal it is to make money and the intent of (another) new client is to, hopefully, attract more players who will equal more subscriptions. Simple enough. But, like all questions, it's not that simple.

The UO we played in '98 is not the UO of today; much has changed - some for the good, but equally as much, if not more, for the bad. With the SA expansion, many changes will come which we may or may not like.

With regard to the new client they are working on, I wish they wouldn't even bother. Remember that survey that came out after the KR "upgrade" asking why we still chose to play the "old" client? Well, I guess they didn't "get it."

The core UO subscribers will not likely migrate to a new client - ever. It's not "UO" for us. You couldn't PvP with the KR client and it looked awful and changed the feel of the game. It wasn't Ultima Online, but was some strange imitation.

Without going on much longer, my wish here is that the company would realize that we PREFER the OLD STYLE client to any updates. That's been proven in the past and will likely prove true in the future. I wish that the company would focus on improving and adding to what we actually enjoy about this game, sticking with the old client.

EA (Mythic): You don't need to reinvent the wheel! History will repeat itself with regard to any new clients. Spend more time on giving the players what they want and let UO go out on a positive note.

To the community: Respond with what you like about the game we play and with regard to the original client. It feels to me like UO is being run by people who aren't actually connected with the nuances of the game - e.g. people who don't play it and maybe who never have. (That's a scary thought.)

The intended purpose of a new client is not to convert no alienate the current core of subscribers. It's to draw in and acquire new subscribers by having a client that can be put side by side with those of games like WoW and not look like your trying to compare the PS3 to a Commodore 64.

REPEAT: The Purpose of the new client is not directed towards us as the main focus it's directed at drawing and retaining NEW PLAYERS. Yes they'd like us to convert, and if they do it well enough many of us will. BUT...we must do our part and try to convince people to play UO with us. I know myself when ever there is a box I order 5 - 10 of them redeem the codes for upgrades/gifts and give the majority of the new account codes to friends who have never played UO.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

EA should just sell it back to Richard Garriott for god's sake.

Did he want to buy it back?

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

UO needs to increase it's player base but it can not draw enough new customers consistently to keep it alive. It needs to try and bring back the old player base who quit because of the direction the game went it. They need to right some wrongs and focus on getting them back one way or another. It's easier to get someone who has already experienced UO to play again than it is to get someone completely new to even bother.

This is the key. The target should be towards bringing back those who once played, the old players, not primarily "new" ones. I can say that I came back to UO after years away because of what I remembered about the game. It's better to sell the game to this demographic than any other.

EA: "If you make it, they will come!"

 

[walter_mitty]

i think whatever the devs do it will be great im sure they wont lets us down.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

The intended purpose of a new client is not to convert no alienate the current core of subscribers. It's to draw in and acquire new subscribers by having a client that can be put side by side with those of games like WoW and not look like your trying to compare the PS3 to a Commodore 64.

REPEAT: The Purpose of the new client is not directed towards us as the main focus it's directed at drawing and retaining NEW PLAYERS. Yes they'd like us to convert, and if they do it well enough many of us will. BUT...we must do our part and try to convince people to play UO with us. I know myself when ever there is a box I order 5 - 10 of them redeem the codes for upgrades/gifts and give the majority of the new account codes to friends who have never played UO.

If I were a "new" player and I had a choice between a new game and one that is 11 years old that isn't much of a choice.

Regardless, "new" players won't even know about UO. THE GAME IS NOT GOING TO BE ON SHELVES.

When Mythic released Warhammer Online, they put 1.2 million boxes on retail shelves. If Mythic releases Stygian Abyss, they will put ZERO boxes on retail shelves. There will be no "new" players because "new" players won't even have the opportunity to realize the game is available.

Seriously, it is delusional to believe that a game can attract new players without a shelf presence and SA won't have one if it is ever released. We have already been told as much.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

Did he want to buy it back?

No. I wish.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Look the caveman would of never knew about the wheel unless he seen Grog wheeling by his cave. Or if the neighbors cavekids came over and had drawn the wheel on his cave walls. UO needs to be on the shelves to hook players. If Ozzy says something is fun it must be. Dumb as that sounds, some marketing is better then none.

We are no longer wheeling around in Model Ts. A product needs to move forward. True there are those out there rather have the 60s fastback Mustang over the 2K retro Mustang. Once you can compared the two Mustangs and find out the ride difference. Also you don't need Indiana Jones to find parts for one then the other.........UO 2d wouldn't be as fun as it is without UO Assist. KR combines the two and you can use KR Retro to look more like 2d.

Problem with the KR wheel is that it has few flat spots still. Great fan of the KRing the elf quest. But KR wont mine those ingots like 2d with UOA boost. KRs macro set needs to be replaced with UOAs record method. Thump Thump Thump...............

There is something to be said about a Hemi T Bucket. Maybe one day we will see the world of Sosaria through the eyes of our character and the greatest desired home deco item will be full length wall mirror. And the fun of a dragon hunt will be matched watching someone drunk trying to ride their llama through town.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Swamp Dragon Notice
Joanne Laroche
05 Jan 2009 13:50:05
We've received reports of players who have dyed their Swamp Dragon armor deeds with the dyes of Tokuno, and then created neon pets. These dyes were not intended to be used in this manner and those players with neon pets will find their swampies reverted to iron in the near future.

They need someone to sit at the table when they brainstorm that actually logs into the game. "We've recieved reports" wouldn't have such a we haven't a clue or care sound. Also this is something that needs to be on the Patch Window instead of the info not be change for another three months again. Hey maybe the town crier could put out a shout or someone can jack some wood and make a billboard for Luna bank with this info. Someone that gets 3-4 hours a day to play at their computer is not going to like wasting an hour sifting stratics for daily heads-up info.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[Cynth]

The OP is exactly right in what was stated. I believe most of the current playerbase play UO because it is UO. New clients detract away from this feel, thus none have ever been received well to date, and any in future are unlikely to be either.

With that said, people like Connor are also right, however lack the technical foresight to see why their vision of how a "new client" transforming the game isn't possible and why any new client has absolutely no chance of competing for new gamers from the get-go when compared with more technically superior games such as WoW.

In order for UO to compete in today's market, they have to basically re-write the game from scratch: both client and server side. You have to start with a clean slate. It is not possible to turn what we have now into a game which seriously competes for new gamers in today's market That's the long and short of it right there.

I'd save all this money they're wasting on developing new clients, invest it into a "UO 2" project and run it in parallel to the current UO, with the eventual idea being that the majority of current UO players would migrate to the new game and a large influx of new players would be drawn to the latest shiny and pretty MMO. They already potentially have some base game elements that they could lift from the cancelled Ultima X: Odyssey project.

I believe cancelling UX:O this was maybe one of their biggest mistakes to date. It could have been the current WoW of the MMO world if development proceeded and was carried out right. We're still feeling the impact of this cancellation as EA continue to kid themselves into believing that they can proceed to develop the core code that they currently have from '97 and make it into a viable game in today's market by sticking die-hard to the quasi-3D, isometric model which is being forced upon them by the engine and design of the current game.

In short, if you want to attract new players and have a large playerbase: create UO 2 with a proper 3D-rendering engine from scratch and end up with something that you can market. If you want to retain your existing playerbase: improve what we already have and focus more on in-game content. Going half-way and designing yet another sub-par client that will attain little market exposure isn't an option and will please nobody; just waste your money.

Them's be my views. =)

 

[Duskofdead]

I want a new client to eliminate a lot of cheating.

Besides that, '98 UO is not what the general gaming public wants. Good graphics is a big deal now.

It's a rock and a hard place.

Trying to force UO into the 21st century is stillborn. Sorry, to any dev reading, but it is. None of the continuing subscribers like the "updated" client and none will like any SA client... no matter how cool it is... because it's not the UO we all know/love/are comfortable with.

If they are going to toss this much budget at trying to "go mainstream" again and attract in tons of new clients, the real way to do that would be a UO2.

I think this trying to halfsie compromise on tincan budget, not quite do a UO2 with new game engine and separate servers, but still try to cash in on the mainstream MMO market, is going to kill UO or come darn close trying. It will most likely flop and that will be one more black mark as far as EA is concerned regarding the existence of UO. "Look, we gave it money many times, look what happened everytime we did..."

 

[4th3ist]

UO needs to increase it's player base but it can not draw enough new customers consistently to keep it alive. It needs to try and bring back the old player base who quit because of the direction the game went it. They need to right some wrongs and focus on getting them back one way or another. It's easier to get someone who has already experienced UO to play again than it is to get someone completely new to even bother.

mmmm.. I may have just recently reactivated my account, but when I opened it in '99 - '04 I don't remember the subscriber base ever clearing even the 200,000 hump... Sure, I remember the shards being way more heavily populated but thats because we didn't have Illshenar, Malas, and Tokuno to spread gimmie-gimmie crybabies out even more. Everyone wanted a house thats what I attribute to the community being split so much... Sure now maybe we have 150,000 subscriptions (Don't know where you came up with that number...) but think of how many of those subscriptions are inactive accounts used by someone that has 5 or more accounts to hold all of their houses and such.. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when the market for MMOG's is this big now-a-days, 150k subscribers doesn't seem like much to the people paying the bills [EA]. Mythic/EA have Warhammer to steal their piece of the MMO pie(chart [biggrin]). I really hate to be a nay sayer, but I to wouldn't doubt if the game shut the doors shortly after SA releases if it is poorly recieved.

Some of you people need to get yer heads looked at because if you think there are enough retired vets to come back to UO and strike a new life into it you are sadly mistaken. Our peak ~250k subscribers will NEVER stack up to the likes of todays/yesterdays big dogs... WoW, LoTRO, Lineage 2 (Yeeeaaa represent it Lord Brit big dawg!), Runescape, FFXI, hell EVEN EVERQUEST, have all been nearly 2X (Some even 10X or more) the peak subscription base of Ultima back in 01-04.

 

[BloodstoneGL]

No one's talking about putting UO at the top of the list, we are just trying to keep it going as long as we can. And the fact still remains they have a better chance of getting older players to come back than they do to get new players to join so why not focus on the older payers more so than some new client that no one will play +/-2% of the crrent UO population.

 

[Duskofdead]

I have to concur with Atheist here. And I am, like him, a very recently returned old vet.

UO , even when people RECOGNIZE THE NAME AT ALL, is treated like a museum piece. Most gamers would be surprised to learn it is still operational. Out of the few who'd recognize the name. The majority don't. Go in World of Warcraft, and start talking in general chat about UO. About 5 or 6 people will pipe up and be like "YEAH! I loved that game!" About 35 or 40 will be like "whats uo?"

The market is DIFFERENT. It hasn't just "moved", it's different. There are kids in the MMORPG market today who were in diapers when UO came out, or not even born yet. There are 6, 8, 11 , 14 year olds, 17 year olds, 21 year olds, whose first MMORPG was World of Warcraft. Those people, I'm sorry, are never going to come to UO. It's like trying to draw people back to Atari from the S-NES.

 

[LIL DON]

Does anyone not remember UO3d (third dawn) ? EA tried cramming 3d client down our throat then by not allowing 2d in ilsh. We see how well that worked. Then came KR (how many people actually play it) I only know a few people who load KR ever, then its only for skill training or KR only quest. I think EA will see that UO wasnt ment to be 3d. As they did when they intorduced LBR and allowed 2d in Ilsh.

 

[4th3ist]

I hated 3D, but there were very good reasons 3D was so poorly recieved. For one, it was buggy as crap when it released. It didn't run well on a lot of machines (god only knows why, poor omptimization?). I love the way the 2d client looks, I like it even more so then the new KR client for asthetics (probably mostly nostalgic though). However, I'm using KR exclusivley since I came back and I think it is way more functional. I don't like the minimap.... yep, thats it. Everything else is great. It runs more smoothly and crashes less frequently then 2D for me. It has hotbars... so what, I can still assign anything to any button combination, which I have done. Everything is moveable and scaleable... The chat window is a very nice improvement to the old system..

Sure bringing back some old vets could help the current situation of the game, but we need new players more then ever. They need to get them somehow. Thats up to EA/Mythic to figure out. However, I will say that when Darkfall hits stores I will be going ka-poof from UO if it is still a deadzone at the time of the US release. I love this old game and all, but when I quit it was in a depression and the numbers are still going down now that I'm back.. I use to bash the naysayers nine years ago but now it does seem like the end is near.

And what people are saying about people laughing at the sight of UO. My god is that ever true. I've tryed to get dozens of people to try the game out including friends family roomates and girlfriend. Every damn one of them says its to ugly and looks boring. The colors are dull, the animations are dull, And anything running at 10 FRAMES PER SECOND will give someone use to todays graphic powerhouses a FRIGGIN MIGRAINE!

I agree with you bloodstone on you're last point though. I'm not saying that UO needs to be on a platinum pedestal at the top, but we need to stop people from walking all over us down here at the bottom. The guys at the top cant even see us down here anymore..

 

[Old Man of UO]

I like the KR client, BETTER than I ever did the 2D client, and hope they continue with the new client. I've played UO since 1997, and I strongly disagree with the statement that KR "changes the feel of the game." UO is UO because of it's interaction with the environment and other players and ruleset, NOT because of which client you play.

When KR first came out, I was dead set against using it because of pretty much everything you said. Everyone said how unstable it was. It wouldn't work on my laptop when I traveled for business. So I let it set on my computer unused.

Some 3 or 4 months ago, bored with whatever was going on in the game, I loaded and patched KR. It seemed to crash once an hour... I couldn't figure out the macros... or even how to chat with other people. I couldn't even figure out how to buy something from NPC vendors because I kept trying to do it like I did with the 2D client. And I missed UOAssist. And the graphics were ugly.

I read all the help guides and visited the Stratics KR forums and asked questions. I started tweaking the settings in game and on my computer. I changed the graphics to Legacy and turned off the awful shadows. I loaded the custom UI that the good folks in the Stratics KR forum created and BOY do I like the new look! I noticed that because KR was such a large program it was scattered all over my computer when it loaded and whenever it patched... so I defragged my hard drive, several times, and changed the memory settings in the KR User Settings. And KR didn't crash any more. In fact, it's more stable now than the 2D client.

I played with the macros... MAN were they ever confusing! And the hot bars! My spells kept targeting me and I kept killing myself! HA! A simple right click and choose target current instead of myself. I wasn't truly impressed until I created a dress macro in KR... I was used to the dress macro in UOAssist, which took 3 or 4 seconds to dress after dying, but KR was almost instantaneous! And want to wear something else or equip another weapon? You don't have to UN-EQUIP anything with the dress macro and it happens immediately. Wait until you try the crafting quests in Heartwood with a macro that creates ten footstools and marks them as quest items for you! Whoever says you can PVP with the KR client got that from someone else, or didn't tame the time to properly adjust the settings in KR.

And I love being able to fill my 22 inch monitor, which the 2D client doesn't and won't and can't!

Now I am a KR junky. It is still the same old UO, and the game play is exactly the same, except I am pushing a few different buttons and have to shift-right click or press enter first to chat. KR is actually a lot faster doing most things than the 2D client. I still have issues with stocking vendors, and to tell the truth all the tweaks that I made to get it to run well, I shouldn't have had to do. I still crash now and then, about once every 20+ hours of playing. I don't want to go back to the 2D interface, since what I have now is better.

The rules have evolved. New monsters and player skills were invented. And I still get PK'd in front of my home in Felucca. But whether I use KR or the 2D client, it is still the same UO Online that I've played since '97.

Let the Developers do their job and learn from the good and bad of both clients, and come up with a better client. Please DO continue to work on the new SA client and make it even better!

 

[BloodstoneGL]

Well for your sake Old Man I hope they don't make it so damn hard to get it just to run and use. KR failed because few have that kind of patience any more.

 

[AesSedai]

Please DO continue to work on the new SA client and make it even better!

- I wouldn't worry about it too much
It looks like they are still working hard on SA & I'm hoping quite a few people will be surprised with the improvements it has over KR.
This is a snippet from a post made yesterday:

... now in the last part of our expansion development, when our local team is completely nose down in Stygian Abyss...