New Classic Shard Poll

[georgemarvin2001]

The previous poll didn't have any choices that would be what I would want for a "classic shard". There wasn't a choice for the post-trammel, pre-power scroll era, for instance. Or a hybrid of the best features from all of the eras of UO.

During the previous discussion about which of UO's various incarnations that we would like to see in a classic ruleset shard, some of us did a little research to see which of the free shards that had the most players. I was amazed to see that some of the most popular ones have player bases of close to 200,000 players, more players on just one shard than the entire official UO subscription base. And all of the most popular free shards had something in common: They were all variations of the classic ruleset.

The most popular free shards are hybrids:
They incorporate all of the most popular rulesets that players liked from pre-AOS:
1. All lands use the Felucca ruleset
2. No power scrolls
3. Pre-AOS skills: magic resist resists ... magic.
4. Spells all work like they did pre-AOS. Spell reflection reflects ... spells.
5. Heavy armor protects better, but has dex penalties. Light armor lets you meditate and doesn't have dex penalties.
6. You can carve up your enemy's corpse and turn his head in for a possible bounty, or display it in your house as a trophy.
7. Some of them have the T2A-era game-balancing, anti-grief system of permanent stat loss for murderers who die while red. When murderers had to pay a hefty penalty, becoming a murderer wasn't something done on a whim. There were real consequences to your actions. Only the best PvPers would dare turn red.
8. No item insurance.
9. Factions are done like when UO originally implemented the system, with faction items crafted by players and blessed for 2 weeks. Some of them have gone back to the old order/chaos system or reduced the number of factions to two.

However, they also incorporate the good things that the modern game has given us, like:
1. Custom housing
2. Player-grown plants
3. A vast variety of weapons and armor to choose from
4. Huge numbers of craftable house deco items
5. Veteran rewards like etherials, commodity boxes and statuette dye tubs
6. checks (making checks worth 5 million gp is a veteran reward on the one I checked out)
7. BOD systems which allow players to make exceptional vanqs and armor of invulnerability with the crafter's name on them
8. Hair dyes, blaze/white/bright/reward cloth, etc.

And things that players have been asking UO to implement for a LONG time, some since Beta:
1. Arenas for players to have 1 vs 1 battles without interference
2. Gambling houses
3. The 2 islands with lots of level 5 treasure chests but no healers have had shrines added
4. Several irritating bugs that have been around practically forever don't seem to be present on the free shards
5. Free alternatives to UOAssist
6. Free Ventrilo servers for guilds
7. Skill gains aren't broken or impossible to gain through normal gameplay. You can actually play the game and become GM in a skill, rather than spending endless hours macroing it.
8. Fixed Khaldun
9. Changed monster spawns so that no one dungeon has the best loot, and added more spawns outside of dungeons.

By far, the most popular free shards are the hybrids. The second most popular ruleset appears to be T2A. I would assume that players on free shards will naturally gravitate toward the shards which are the most fun to play. Unfortunately, very few people are willing to play on a modern-ruleset free UO shard, even though it's just as free as the pre-AOS ones. I was amazed to find just how empty most of the modern ruleset free shards were in comparison to the hybrids and T2A shards.

The fact that several times as many people are playing T2A and hybrid free shards than modern ruleset free shards would seem to be a good argument in favor of UO's Devs actually making a production classic ruleset shard of its own. It shouldn't be that hard, or labor intensive, in comparison to the years and thousands upon thousands of man-hours that they wasted making UO2, 3D, UOX, Kingdom Reborn, etc. which were usually so poorly done that practically nobody used them, or that were never even put into production.

I think the reasons why, when they are given the choice, most of the people on free shards play pre-AOS rulesets are pretty easy to understand. The post-AOS game has lost its soul. The AOS ruleset made the game almost entirely item-based, where it had been skill-based. It made the game all about getting gold, where gold hadn't really been that important before. Pre-AOS, you could buy a great suit of armor and a GM crafted weapon for a few thousand gold pieces. A highly skilled, naked mage with a couple hundred gold in regs could even win a fight against a warrior in full plate of invulnerability with a vanq weapon. Even the poorest players could fight and win, if they had the battle skills and a good strategy. You spent most of your gold on a house, house deco, rares, etc. that had nothing to do with combat. And, as much as they may have said they hated it, there was an element of danger and uncertainty in the game that isn't there anymore.

I don't know if a classic shard would bring back any of the hundreds of thousands of players who left post-AOS, but it's worth a try. At the worst, people who have given up on the official UO and fled to the free shards will come back for a 14 day trial, or re-activate a long-forgotten account for a month, then decide that they like their new free shard better and leave again. At best, many of them will come back for a month, like what they see, and stay for years.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Yay two classic shard polls on the same page w00t!

Instead of helping the existing shards,lets make a new one so we can further fragment the populous. Sounds great.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Instead of making another poll just post what you want in the original one, plenty of people have done it, I'm the most supportive person of a new classic shard believe me, but we already have two threads running, very busy about it. We dont need a third splitting discussions.

 

[Boba]

Yay two classic shard polls on the same page w00t!

Instead of helping the existing shards,lets make a new one so we can further fragment the populous. Sounds great.

They've been attempting to 'help' existing shards ever since the disaster that was AoS for almost 7 years now. Obviously, their attempts have been in vain as the game has been in steady and constant decline ever since (this is what happens when you neglect the only strength/niche UO has -- great PVP).

The sooner they release a classic shard the better, although it may already be too late as the free shards have filled this niche and are extremely popular.

 

[Heartseeker]

Yay two classic shard polls on the same page w00t!

Instead of helping the existing shards,lets make a new one so we can further fragment the populous. Sounds great.

They've been attempting to 'help' existing shards ever since the disaster that was AoS for almost 7 years now. Obviously, their attempts have been in vain as the game has been in steady and constant decline ever since (this is what happens when you neglect the only strength/niche UO has -- great PVP).

The sooner they release a classic shard the better, although it may already be too late as the free shards have filled this niche and are extremely popular.

"This."

 

[Beer_Cayse]

If EA introduced a hybrid shard like that explained in the post, I'd very quickly be there. It has most of everything I think a hybrid should have.

 

[Longest Journey]

T2A with necessary fixes to major bugs and glitches applied. Thats all they really need to do. Theres no need for some hybrid server or any of that nonsense from the OP.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Obviously, their attempts have been in vain as the game has been in steady and constant decline ever since (this is what happens when you neglect the only strength/niche UO has -- great PVP).

Really? Then why are subs up now from a year ago? Cal already told us that subs have incresed quite a bit since the release of SA. Also, if PvP is the "strength" of UO, why is it that only 25% of the playerbase participate in it and not a majority?

Flaws in logic you have.

 

[Longest Journey]

Really? Then why are subs up now from a year ago? Cal already told us that subs have incresed quite a bit since the release of SA. Also, if PvP is the "strength" of UO, why is it that only 25% of the playerbase participate in it and not a majority?

Right, because Cal and the other developers have no reason to lie or be vague about how much the subs have gone up. I mean, its not like their jobs depend on it or they have any sort of incentive to make players think things are better than they really are....

Oh, wait...yes the do have a reason to lie and be vague.

Odds are those sub increases were all on asian servers. Even then, those subs are gold farmer accounts so they dont technically count.

Also, the reason no one PvP's anymore, its because theres no point. Its so horribly inbalanced and messed up that it doesnt have the appeal it once did. Even then, its not PvP anymore its IvI, Item versus Item, and Speed hacks vs Speed Hacks. Theres no skill involved anymore, no challange. Its gear up in an uber arti suit, set your hacks to over kill, and press a button.

Not to mention there arent enough players on to notice if anyone is actually PvPing because everyone is too busy sitting around luna bank looking like a neon vegas sign and spamming gold selling sites.

Flaws in logic you have.

His logic isnt flawed. Youre just omitting the facts. You said the subs are up, yet, you failed to mention by how much and on what servers. You say only 25% of the population PvPs, yet you failed to mention why.

 

[Heartseeker]

Obviously, their attempts have been in vain as the game has been in steady and constant decline ever since (this is what happens when you neglect the only strength/niche UO has -- great PVP).

Really? Then why are subs up now from a year ago? Cal already told us that subs have incresed quite a bit since the release of SA. Also, if PvP is the "strength" of UO, why is it that only 25% of the playerbase participate in it and not a majority?

Flaws in logic you have.

Connor, you can't compare pvp now to what it was before.

I am playing on aT2A shard and it is a world of difference.

The game over all is so different that it's hardly recognizable.

Besides, don't put to much weight behind anything the EA/Mythic staff says; some of them might not be here next week.

 

[Boba]

Really? Then why are subs up now from a year ago? Cal already told us that subs have incresed quite a bit since the release of SA.

Uhh, duh? You answered your own question. Did you really have to ask? Is it not obvious that any new expansion will peak former players interest? I assure you though, once the novelty wears off (and it's starting to), subs will be on the decline again.

What's so special about a slight increase in subs when the game is on the brink of death?

Also, if PvP is the "strength" of UO, why is it that only 25% of the playerbase participate in it and not a majority?

Flaws in logic you have.

I'm appalled that you are attempting to critique someone elses logic when you ask such absurd questions. You seriously don't know? Even someone with moderate comprehension skills can figure this out. Where does that place you on the charts?

But to answer your question, do you really expect a large portion of the playerbase to partake in PvP when it's riddled with scripts, speedhacks, and unbalanced templates? Like I mentioned in my previous post -- they've neglected pvp for far too long, and they need to do something quick or they'll all be out of a job very soon.

When was the last pvp balance pass, publish 25? (01/12/2005) That's over 5 years of neglect.

How long have you been playing this game?

 

[Connor_Graham]

Connor, you can't compare pvp now to what it was before.

I wasn't. It was made very clear by the person I quoted that he was speaking in the present tense, not past.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Uhh, duh? You answered your own question. Did you really have to ask?

Yeah, I guess I did, since you said it was exactly the opposite. Even prior to SA, subs were holding steady, not declining, as Chicken Little's such as yourself have tried to convince people of since beta.

I'm appalled that you are attempting to critique someone elses logic when you ask such absurd questions.

The absurdity is in the statements you made, not the questions I asked. Logicially, you said exactly the opposite of what is truly the case as things stand today. Get a clue, then get back to me.

 

[Boba]

Yeah, I guess I did, since you said it was exactly the opposite. Even prior to SA, subs were holding steady, not declining, as Chicken Little's such as yourself have tried to convince people of since beta.

I can guarantee that subs were NOT holding steady prior to SA. It is fact that subs have been on the decline since UO's peak which was shortly after the release of AoS. Ever since then, players have been leaving faster than new players have been joining. Open your eyes and take a look around. Look at the amount of free space for houses on all facets. Observe how empty all of the dungeons are, even the new ones. Step out of trammel and come see how dead PvP is, even on your home shard of Pacific.

Why do you think the Dev's have finally decided to look into opening a classic shard after years of repeatedly stating that it would NEVER HAPPEN? Do you think it's because the game is growing?

Desperate measures call for desperate times.

I used to be like you -- highly optimistic, hoping my favorite MMO was in fact improving, growing, but when the evidence to the contrary is staring you dead in the face, it's hard to stay hopeful.

The absurdity is in the statements you made, not the questions I asked. Logicially, you said exactly the opposite of what is truly the case as things stand today. Get a clue, then get back to me.

Everything I stated comes from 11 years of playing this game, from pvp to running a Luna house, merchanting, crafting, BODing, all on multiple shards. I can assure you that I have more experience in all aspects of this game than you, and I'd hate to break it to ya, but your high post count on a forum that represents the vocal MINORITY doesn't mean you have a clue.

So, when you've experienced more aspects of this game than I, been through as much, played as much (I'm willing to bet you spend more time on stratics than actually playing the game), then i'll let you get away with making stupid comments like 'get a clue'.

 

[Malimus]

Yay two classic shard polls on the same page w00t!

Instead of helping the existing shards,lets make a new one so we can further fragment the populous. Sounds great.

Or we just leave things to go in the direction they are going and continue to watch the steady flow of people quiting and selling off there accounts.... ya that sounds like a better idea.

We all see it happening but don't want to believe it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I can guarantee that subs were NOT holding steady prior to SA.

Then please oh wise Bama Llama Ding Dong, please show us this proof you have of your divine wisdom. Otherwise, you're just another Chicken Little.

Everything I stated comes from 11 years of playing this game

Maybe you should forget about those 11 years, and look at the last 2 instead. Because the last 2 show you completely wrong. How long you've played has no bearing on actual facts as stated by those that actually know and have the numbers to look at.

Oh, and btw, post count means more to people like you than it does to me. I never bother to pay attention to it. People like you try to use it as evidence of "whatever" accusation for some strange reason.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Or we just leave things to go in the direction they are going and continue to watch the steady flow of people quiting and selling off there accounts.... ya that sounds like a better idea.

We all see it happening but don't want to believe it.

All a classic shard will be is a fart in the wind.

Instead of actually fixing things on lives servers to make players happier, lets instead throw all this money down this hole with a brand new server and oh yea,lets have a dedicated dev team just for that server,wishfull thinking. ROFL

I thought people wanted or said they should`ve had a dedicated dev team/member for Siege. Why would a new shard with a smaller set of devs change this? I think its moronic to think a new shard would be good in the long run when shards like Siege that HAD alot of people get no attention. So fast forward past the newness of a new shard. People start complaining that they can`t have thier cake and eat it too and those voices fall on def ears. Why def ears? I dunno ask em about Siege and why its gotten the way it is. It certainly isn`t because Siegers are listened too.

Why will things change in the future with another shard,the same amount(or less) of devs and less money being put into the game? Just need to take off those rose colored glasses and think about it realisticly.

If somehow a classic shard does actually ever come to fruition....I look forward to being right.

 

[Heartseeker]

Or we just leave things to go in the direction they are going and continue to watch the steady flow of people quiting and selling off there accounts.... ya that sounds like a better idea.

We all see it happening but don't want to believe it.

All a classic shard will be is a fart in the wind.

Instead of actually fixing things on lives servers to make players happier, lets instead throw all this money down this hole with a brand new server and oh yea,lets have a dedicated dev team just for that server,wishfull thinking. ROFL

I thought people wanted or said they should`ve had a dedicated dev team/member for Siege. Why would a new shard with a smaller set of devs change this? I think its moronic to think a new shard would be good in the long run when shards like Siege that HAD alot of people get no attention. So fast forward past the newness of a new shard. People start complaining that they can`t have thier cake and eat it too and those voices fall on def ears. Why def ears? I dunno ask em about Siege and why its gotten the way it is. It certainly isn`t because Siegers are listened too.

Why will things change in the future with another shard,the same amount(or less) of devs and less money being put into the game? Just need to take off those rose colored glasses and think about it realisticly.

If somehow a classic shard does actually ever come to fruition....I look forward to being right.

Your opinion...thx.

Classic Shard has little maintenance because the systems are all in.

Seige on the other hand needs updating, just like regular shards; adding new skills and items.

This game has been catered to house deco, "Items",bad clients no one uses, and pampering the restless natives on this board.

There probably has been more dev time spent on putting out fires and holding people's hands, and paging GM's round the clock.

Give a bone to others who need some loving too.

A lot of people were against Trammel originally; but we don't want your world affected, we just want one to play in too.....

 

[canary]

Actually, the team historically has been more interested in doing something the EASY way as opposed to the RIGHT way, which is why UO has half the issues it does.

So, in regards to a Classic Shard... heh.

 

[the 4th man]

Right, because Cal and the other developers have no reason to lie or be vague about how much the subs have gone up. I mean, its not like their jobs depend on it or they have any sort of incentive to make players think things are better than they really are....

Oh, wait...yes the do have a reason to lie and be vague.

Odds are those sub increases were all on asian servers. Even then, those subs are gold farmer accounts so they dont technically count.

Also, the reason no one PvP's anymore, its because theres no point. Its so horribly inbalanced and messed up that it doesnt have the appeal it once did. Even then, its not PvP anymore its IvI, Item versus Item, and Speed hacks vs Speed Hacks. Theres no skill involved anymore, no challange. Its gear up in an uber arti suit, set your hacks to over kill, and press a button.

Not to mention there arent enough players on to notice if anyone is actually PvPing because everyone is too busy sitting around luna bank looking like a neon vegas sign and spamming gold selling sites.



His logic isnt flawed. Youre just omitting the facts. You said the subs are up, yet, you failed to mention by how much and on what servers. You say only 25% of the population PvPs, yet you failed to mention why.

Your logic is flawed. For one you assume subscriptions are up due to Japanese shards, a guess. So what.

You also assume, because somone pays to have an account to farm gold, that doesn't count as a profit. Your business sense is downright lousy.

You want balance??? Dig out the console game. Balance is for sissies....a real player can think for themselves and create tactics, obviously, todays generation lacks that mentality.

It's easy to judge others, as far as I'm concerned it's all a personal opinion, so no big deal there.

Cal said what he had to say, and it's not his responsibilty to make certain individuals happy. Subscriptions are up, that's all that counts.

If my business was up, it wouldn't matter to me where.....nor my existing customers.


later

 

[Trebr Drab]

This is a tough one for me to answer, because I do want some "hybrid" elements, but not many listed.
So I went with T2A, and I'll go through all your listed items and yea or nae them with some explanations.

The most popular free shards are hybrids:
They incorporate all of the most popular rulesets that players liked from pre-AOS:
1. All lands use the Felucca ruleset
Yea, I want all the lands. Maybe added through events.
2. No power scrolls
Yea
3. Pre-AOS skills: magic resist resists ... magic.
Yea
4. Spells all work like they did pre-AOS. Spell reflection reflects ... spells.
Yea
5. Heavy armor protects better, but has dex penalties. Light armor lets you meditate and doesn't have dex penalties.
Yea
6. You can carve up your enemy's corpse and turn his head in for a possible bounty, or display it in your house as a trophy.
I don't really want this one, but I can understand others who do. Not a big issue for me. However, given UO's already established Teen rating, it would require whatever is needed to keep it separate from the rest of the game.
7. Some of them have the T2A-era game-balancing, anti-grief system of permanent stat loss for murderers who die while red. When murderers had to pay a hefty penalty, becoming a murderer wasn't something done on a whim. There were real consequences to your actions. Only the best PvPers would dare turn red.
Yea
8. No item insurance.
Yea
9. Factions are done like when UO originally implemented the system, with faction items crafted by players and blessed for 2 weeks. Some of them have gone back to the old order/chaos system or reduced the number of factions to two.
Nae, I think a new faction system with Order, Chaos, and Balance would be good. And do away with gamey "rewards", they only make faction systems for the reward seekers and hurt any effort at "story".

However, they also incorporate the good things that the modern game has given us, like:
1. Custom housing
Yea
2. Player-grown plants
Yea
3. A vast variety of weapons and armor to choose from
Nae, I like the original system. However, some growth here might be done very carefully.
4. Huge numbers of craftable house deco items
Yea
5. Veteran rewards like etherials, commodity boxes and statuette dye tubs
Yea and Nae, I don't like hand outs, rather make things achievable in game. Don't like Etherials, they take away from regular mounts. LIke the idea of statuette dye tubs and similar.
6. checks (making checks worth 5 million gp is a veteran reward on the one I checked out)
Nae If there's really a need for these, there's something wrong with the game's economics.
7. BOD systems which allow players to make exceptional vanqs and armor of invulnerability with the crafter's name on them
Nae, Nae, Nae, Nae
8. Hair dyes, blaze/white/bright/reward cloth, etc.
Nae and Maybe. Maybe add a feature of special MOBs to turn hair pure white and still dyable. Like Black Liches in events. No neons! Some of the reward cloths would be great as they are attractive. I suggest a dye system like the seeds from plants, only with semi-rare items such as shells and tree barks and minerals to make individual 5 use dyes.

And things that players have been asking UO to implement for a LONG time, some since Beta:
1. Arenas for players to have 1 vs 1 battles without interference
Nae to arenas, Yea to duals anywhere. Let players make their own arenas and events.
2. Gambling houses
Nae, again, let player's make their own.
3. The 2 islands with lots of level 5 treasure chests but no healers have had shrines added
Lore breaker. Use stationary healers in tents or something.
4. Several irritating bugs that have been around practically forever don't seem to be present on the free shards
Always good.
5. Free alternatives to UOAssist
Yea
6. Free Ventrilo servers for guilds
Doesn't Stratics have that? But yes.
7. Skill gains aren't broken or impossible to gain through normal gameplay. You can actually play the game and become GM in a skill, rather than spending endless hours macroing it.
Yea
8. Fixed Khaldun
Not sure about what's "broken". Can't answer this one.
9. Changed monster spawns so that no one dungeon has the best loot, and added more spawns outside of dungeons.
Yea, Yea, Yea, Yea. Add wondering MOB groups that might happen upon cities, dungeons, etc. Add AI! Let MObs take over dungeons from other MOBs.

 

[Longest Journey]

Your logic is flawed. For one you assume subscriptions are up due to Japanese shards, a guess. So what.

No, not a guess, the majority of UO's current subscription base comes from Asian shards. Didnt say anything about it just being the japanese shards. Asian servers cover China, Japan, and South Korea. China and South Korea are notorious for gold farmers.

You also assume, because somone pays to have an account to farm gold, that doesn't count as a profit. Your business sense is downright lousy.

Actually, its your sense thats lousy. Gold farmers ruin the ingame economy by flooding it with too much gold. Ever heard of inflation? Economics 101. Too much money in circulation causes prices to sky rocket. Case in point, take a look at the prices of items in vendor shops. Everything is sickeningly expensive, where as years ago, when gold farmers didnt exist, prices for things were substantially more reasonable.

You want balance??? Dig out the console game. Balance is for sissies....a real player can think for themselves and create tactics, obviously, todays generation lacks that mentality.

An MMO with unbalanced combat systems, wethere they be PvP or PvE, makes for a poor gaming experience and tends to drive players away. With players with your mindset, its no wonder UO is in the sorry state it is.

Cal said what he had to say, and it's not his responsibilty to make certain individuals happy. Subscriptions are up, that's all that counts.

If my business was up, it wouldn't matter to me where.....nor my existing customers.

You have no clue at all.

It matters a great deal by how much the subs are up and where because it reflects on how the quality of the game is attracting/deterring players. Its a reflection of the type of people the game is drawing.

The fact that Cal didnt say how many accounts activated and on what servers means that the details did not reflect kindly on the development team.

Translation: More gold farmer accounts activated.

 

[Longest Journey]

All a classic shard will be is a fart in the wind.

Instead of actually fixing things on lives servers to make players happier, lets instead throw all this money down this hole with a brand new server and oh yea,lets have a dedicated dev team just for that server,wishfull thinking. ROFL


I thought people wanted or said they should`ve had a dedicated dev team/member for Siege. Why would a new shard with a smaller set of devs change this? I think its moronic to think a new shard would be good in the long run when shards like Siege that HAD alot of people get no attention. So fast forward past the newness of a new shard. People start complaining that they can`t have thier cake and eat it too and those voices fall on def ears. Why def ears? I dunno ask em about Siege and why its gotten the way it is. It certainly isn`t because Siegers are listened too.

Why will things change in the future with another shard,the same amount(or less) of devs and less money being put into the game? Just need to take off those rose colored glasses and think about it realisticly.

If somehow a classic shard does actually ever come to fruition....I look forward to being right.

You do realize that they have been trying to fix UO and all the problems that came in with AOS for over 8 years now, right? And....it really hasnt gotten them anywhere. Things are actually worse than they were when AOS came in with its complete alteration to the game.

As for people not liking the classic server(s), who said they had to stay and play it? I mean, odds are, people from the post AOS servers are going to come over to the classic server just to complain about it in hopes they can get it shut down...for what logical reason I dont know.

When it comes to the fears of resources being diverted away from the current servers, look at it this way. 100% of UOs resources have been going into "fixing" the AOS servers for over 8 years now and its yeilded little to no results. Actually, its made things worse.

With that in mind, how can things get any worse if resources are diverted away from the AOS servers to make classic servers? Worst case scenario for the AOS servers is things stay they way they are. The AOS servers are damned if they do and damned if they dont. Complete catch 22 situation.

 

[Longest Journey]

And, before I forget, to the OP, georgemarvin2001, options 2 and 3 on the poll are the same thing.....

 

[Unsatisfied]

Again theres too many of these bloody polls/discussions on the classic shard, I want it im all for it but keep it to one post... Its freaking rediculous trying to keep up with 5 different pages arguing the same goddamn topics.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

Trammel was the biggest change that UO:Rennaissance brought, but there was one other major, game-changing innovation that you have forgotten about: T2A didn't have factions. I believe that the addition of factions with UO:R was a MAJOR change in the game.

It's true that, despite months of hype, there were some technical difficulties and factions didn't go live for a couple of patches after UO:R's release date, but they were one of the highly-advertised, much-anticipated changes that UO:R brought into the game.

As for my opinion of factions, I could take them or leave them. The old order/chaos system, with permanent stat loss for PKs who killed innocents, seemed to work pretty well, and there was really no need to change it. If UO made a classic shard, personally, I could care less whether they put in factions or just left the old order/chaos intact, but there are a lot of people who think differently, and I wanted them to have a chance to vote for (or against) factions. And so far, they seem to prefer T2A without factions.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

@Connor_Graham: Just pulling numbers out of thin air to bolster your argument isn't helping matters.

First, you are absolutely WRONG about the UO subscription numbers falling prior to Trammel. At the launch of UO:Renaissance, there were over 185,000 subscribers, and the subscriber base was continuously growing. This number was quoted by the Dev team in the official press release for the expansion.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/ultima-online-renaissance/adblurbs

Compare that with the roughly 125,000 subscriptions at the beginning of 1999. The fact is that, prior to Trammel, the subscriber base was rising. And Trammel didn't hurt UO's growth, either; it continued to rise to over 250,000 subscribers at the time of the AOS launch.
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

When the AOS team admitted that many of the awful changes they made in Ultima were to make it play more like Diablo 2, in hopes of gaining subscribers who were playing that immensely popular (free online play) game, which some of them were playing in their spare time, they should have been fired on the spot for incompetency. Most people were playing Diablo 2 online because of that one fact: It was free. Dumbing down UO and trying to turn it into a Diablo clone showed just how little the Devs of that era knew or cared about UO's subscriber base.

Did it work? Well, if gutting the UO subscriber base and destroying UO was the goal, it worked beyond all expectations. UO had actually climbed from just 125,000 paying customers in 1999 to over 250,000 customers by the spring of 2003, and held steady at that number through pub 16 and until shortly after the release of AOS. After AOS went live in the summer of 2003, their subscription base plummeted to less than 175,000 in just 6 months, and steadily decreased from there to its 2008 level of under 100,000 subscribers, except for a slight uptick after the Mondain's Legacy expansion.
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Did it have anything to do with Everquest? Not much. At the time Everquest launched, UO had about 140,000 subscribers. After the launch of Everquest, UO's subscription numbers continued to rise for several months, until they hit a peak of over 245,000, then they sank back to 225,000. NOT the drastic, panic-causing plummet that Connor_Graham seems to imply.

Yeah, I know. I don't have any numbers past 2008. That's because EA hasn't released any official subscription numbers in a while, and they haven't even given the numbers to any of the firms that track MMORPGs as an industry. Unfortunately, when the numbers dipped below 100,000, somebody pretty high-up must have decided that, if they just keep the current subscription numbers secret, nobody will know if they drop to the point that EA will just decide to pull the plug.

If you REALLY want to know how UO's subscription numbers have fared since 2008, market research firm NPD tracks them, and releases accurate subscription numbers for all of the online games with over 50,000 subscribers on a quarterly basis:
http://www.npd.com/corpServlet?nextpage=entertainment-vg-pc-game-subscriptions-reports_s.html
You could get UO's current subscription numbers, as of January 1, but they charge a subscription fee, and I for one am not willing to shell out the dough just to find that, as most of us suspect, UO's numbers rose a little when a lot of us veterans came back to check out SA, and are now leaving again.

As for whether the Asian shards have more subscribers than here in the US: I did get some info from one industry report that another website released by accident a few months ago, which was based on an npd report, but I don't think even the NPD report was broken down into subscribers by country, so I don't want to speculate on the percentage of players in the US at the current time. Even if I could find the data again, it was a repost from a third party site, so I wouldn't consider it to be a good source. I honestly don't think anybody other than EA and a few industry insiders really know the exact numbers of subscribers by country, so anything we say here is just speculation.

 

[Petra Fyde]

See sticky above