Needed pvp changes, because EA cant tell

[SugarSmacks]

Lets face it EA has taken "balanced" pvp to "stupid" pvp. I dont really care what the answer is, but unless we are trying to completly destroy this game, then here is a few fixes needed.


Change the hard cap on the maximum player speed to be lower.
Most players will never achieve the maximum speed in this game ever. So exactly why is it so some guy who cheats his ass off is catered too? I really dont know i think there must not be a word for speedhack in India.

Poisoning needs a HARD timer set to it so you cant repoison the same target for say 20 secounds after the first time.
If you pvped back in say 2001 then you remember this patch, it was the EXACT same thing. Origin claimed it was overpowered at the time and turned it back. So what do people do now? Its called poison poison poison poison poison over and over. I mean thats the whole fight....how pathetic eh?

Magic Reflect needs fixed so you dont aggro by casting it.
Ever notice you casted magic reflect, then soon after were subject to el guard wack o or murder count or both. Odds are we met then! The fact is if you cast it and i cast a weaken on you then it says YOU are attacking ME! It doesnt just say it it acts like it too. No one knows if this was intended for this spell but most do agree it is one spell that should come with a warning label.

Throwing needs the same hit lower defense ruleset as archery.
Remember the archery patch.....well it never made it to throwing.
Im pretty sure this NEVER went into effect. And really....its pretty obvious, or did EA want them overpowered to give you another reason to have to buy Stygian Abyss?

Necro spells like blood oath and evil omen need a few secounds added to them.
They cast too fast period. Of course all the people who play them will cry nooooooo! But its the truth, you dont just "duel" a necro for this reason. Most people will agree even Strangle needs pushed back a secound to two.

Every single one of these items is overpowered and needs addressed, or continue your complete lack of balancing and wonder why people wont be here in the future.

 

[puni666]

On the throwing the base damage of the soul glaive should be greatly reduced also.

And on necromancy I've been saying the same thing for a while add a few ticks to Evil Omen cast at least... it's so damned effective!

Protection is another thing that should be looked at. It should have a damage cap before it's removed or pool like magic reflect has... Increased potential if you have the correct skills etc...

Stone form poison resistance should be able to be broken by a poisoner with some sort of mystic/focus check vs. Poison/Combat skill/or Magery check also.

 

[Cetric]

Lets face it EA has taken "balanced" pvp to "stupid" pvp. I dont really care what the answer is, but unless we are trying to completly destroy this game, then here is a few fixes needed.


Change the hard cap on the maximum player speed to be lower.
Most players will never achieve the maximum speed in this game ever. So exactly why is it so some guy who cheats his ass off is catered too? I really dont know i think there must not be a word for speedhack in India.

Poisoning needs a HARD timer set to it so you cant repoison the same target for say 20 secounds after the first time.
If you pvped back in say 2001 then you remember this patch, it was the EXACT same thing. Origin claimed it was overpowered at the time and turned it back. So what do people do now? Its called poison poison poison poison poison over and over. I mean thats the whole fight....how pathetic eh?

Magic Reflect needs fixed so you dont aggro by casting it.
Ever notice you casted magic reflect, then soon after were subject to el guard wack o or murder count or both. Odds are we met then! The fact is if you cast it and i cast a weaken on you then it says YOU are attacking ME! It doesnt just say it it acts like it too. No one knows if this was intended for this spell but most do agree it is one spell that should come with a warning label.

Throwing needs the same hit lower defense ruleset as archery.
Remember the archery patch.....well it never made it to throwing.
Im pretty sure this NEVER went into effect. And really....its pretty obvious, or did EA want them overpowered to give you another reason to have to buy Stygian Abyss?

Necro spells like blood oath and evil omen need a few secounds added to them.
They cast too fast period. Of course all the people who play them will cry nooooooo! But its the truth, you dont just "duel" a necro for this reason. Most people will agree even Strangle needs pushed back a secound to two.

Every single one of these items is overpowered and needs addressed, or continue your complete lack of balancing and wonder why people wont be here in the future.

Stone form - protection needs adjusted.

As for poisoning, while i agree it is over-powered i have adjusted. I could actually make a case that poisoning is almost perfect as is, my only beef with it would be that if you have alchemy you should not fail cure potions. anyone who does nothing but dp doesn't know what they are doing.

Throwers barely even need hit lower defense kraz, the reason they hit like they do is the 5% racial hit chance which caps you to 50% hit chance

Other stuff u said is prolly fine, who cares about magic reflect really (it has done this same thing with reflect phys for years)

oath is prolly fine like it is, but i think evil omen should be a little slower in casting. I get so sick of fighting necro nox mages that just constantly try to omen poison, so i have to just weaken myself then weaken disrupt =/ (hint kraz - thats what you do to them!)

Oh.. and **** Bestial suits


Side note - puni has some awesome points there.

 

[CovenantX]

The only changes that need to be made

Throwing needs base damage on some weapons toned down a little bit... by NO means should ANY ranged weapon hit harder than 2handed melee weapons EVER . =]

Ranged weapon AI should be capped at 30-35 (35 is current)
Melee AI should be capped higher 40-50 (35 is current) there needs to be a balance here.. ranged has Sooo mcuh advantage over melee offensively
the only thing Melee has over Ranged... is Disarm & Bleed . . . lol?


Cure pots need a cooldown 3-5 seconds would be fine imo (not too long) but you should beable to MAKE people have to cure with actuall skills..

Change poisoning back to the way it was previously (no orange petal effect) & G-cure pots should be-able to cure a fair amount of the time say 80% w/0 EP. (this would have to be added IF a cure pot timer is implemented to balance this correctly.)


I think mysticisms - Purge Magic spell, should work on animal form again as well (I don't even have a mystic mage that i play in pvp, but i do have a few chars that use animal form to get away from ganks and such)
The only reason i feel this should be changed back so it works vs animal form is because it didn't act as a dismount (5 sec timer to remount) when it was used. and it was fair imo, It also had a pretty good chance to fail if the target has resist.

 

[aarons6]

Stone form - protection needs adjusted.

As for poisoning, while i agree it is over-powered i have adjusted. I could actually make a case that poisoning is almost perfect as is, my only beef with it would be that if you have alchemy you should not fail cure potions. anyone who does nothing but dp doesn't know what they are doing.

Throwers barely even need hit lower defense kraz, the reason they hit like they do is the 5% racial hit chance which caps you to 50% hit chance

Other stuff u said is prolly fine, who cares about magic reflect really (it has done this same thing with reflect phys for years)

oath is prolly fine like it is, but i think evil omen should be a little slower in casting. I get so sick of fighting necro nox mages that just constantly try to omen poison, so i have to just weaken myself then weaken disrupt =/ (hint kraz - thats what you do to them!)

Oh.. and **** Bestial suits


Side note - puni has some awesome points there.

im dont see how everyone is bashing throwers..
i miss ALL THE TIME on my thrower.. the other day i did a baracoon on him and i counted 15 misses in a row..

i hit more on my archer then i do on my thrower, and i hit the most on my sampire.. he never misses it seems..

 

[Sauteed Onion]

I've never made a thrower, but solely because I always seem to be that poor sap that makes something that seems to be powerful (Flavor of the week is still yummy during the week!), based on what people are saying and right when I get the template completed and a suit I can rock it out for a day or 2, and then the nerf bomb hits. Good waste of 10-30 mil depending on what had to be bought and scrolls etc..

To be honest, I've just been rolling on a mage and mage tamer and a dexxer for the longest time, and kind of afraid to even make a mystic mage or a thrower because I don't want to be subjected to any more nerfs. And I got a friend that's gotten so sick of sampire nerfing and readjusting because everytime he comes back from a break he's got to refidget his suit around nerfs and changes. Now I'm not saying adjustments don't need to be made, but it just seems especially in about the last year of UO it's one change after another regarding newer and older stuff. Some change = needed, weekly/monthly no thanks.

 

[CovenantX]

I've never made a thrower, but solely because I always seem to be that poor sap that makes something that seems to be powerful (Flavor of the week is still yummy during the week!), based on what people are saying and right when I get the template completed and a suit I can rock it out for a day or 2, and then the nerf bomb hits. Good waste of 10-30 mil depending on what had to be bought and scrolls etc..

If things were balanced in the first place no one would have problems like this.

 

[SugarSmacks]

Protection is one of those spells i think we could argue all day about, but if you want a fast simple solution lets just push the spell back to say lvl 5 or 6. I really dont think it needs a breaker as you can just vamp your opponent out of mana (assuming he doesnt have a magic resist suit).

However that purge working on animal form made sense to me. I honestly dont know why they change it to begin with, i mean how stupid is it that you see so many mages with ninja to begin with when they DONT have hiding or stealth. (yes i know its for escape i mean its silly its even allowed)

Stone form protection has its own issues, but so does wraith form, i thought the consequences vs balance was made up with the 30sdi bonus for being a pure mage but thats just me.

I really dont want to hammer on throwers more than the hld because they honestly give up other stuff for it. I just think hld is an easier solution to the problem (and quicker since they already wrote it).

Bestial suits.....lol thats about all i got to say to that as a solution isnt easy.

I disagree about leaving stuff like reflect phys to just be ....well...sh***y, the answer is to fix the problem, not accept bad programming.

 

[aarons6]

If things were balanced in the first place no one would have problems like this.

if you want balance, then you cant have diversity..

those two dont go together very well.

there will ALWAYS be one certain set of skills when put together will be more powerful then any other..


the ONLY real way to make pvp completely balanced is a HARD cap on damage no matter what skills/weapons you use..

maybe they should do that.. just make pvp completely balanced..
no matter weapon you have the max damage you can do is say 25 damage.
cast a flame strike, 25 damage..

this way nobody can complain about being over powered.. cause nobody can be..

but you see the real problem is casters are different then warriors when it goes to dps.
warriors get 1.25s
casters get ex/fs combos..
you get poisoned, you cant heal.. mortal cant heal.

then you throw in some disarms, or para fields..

see how this CANT be balanced in any way?

 

[Sauteed Onion]

Well, the breadth of depth that UO covers is insane.. I can understand there being a need to rebalance stuff shortly after a major content (like a big patch, or expansion for instance), and maybe even a year or so after such a thing.. but SA was released in 2009, and it's almost 2012! And, also, AoS came out in like what, 03? We're getting hit with chiv changes in this day and age. I'm not upset about it, I can rejiggle templates with the best of them but I just hate getting on a kick with one character, dust off another to find I get to spend at the minimum a day (sometimes a week) dropping/training/re-equipping that character to meet the needs of an "update/nerfing/downdate" that just seem to happen to frequently to make me want to experiment out of what seems to THANKFULLY escape the balancing acts.

And I can understand some changes are needed to keep this old dog of a game fresh and entertaining. But, back in line with what the OP is saying, pvp does need some rebalancing and fine tuning (always has), and I do like that the devs are making attempts to get it to where it needs to be. That being said, it just seems like they throw bandaids on gaping wounds, or bring stitches to patch up a bruise or something else witty!

 

[SugarSmacks]

if you want balance, then you cant have diversity..

those two dont go together very well.

there will ALWAYS be one certain set of skills when put together will be more powerful then any other..


the ONLY real way to make pvp completely balanced is a HARD cap on damage no matter what skills/weapons you use..

maybe they should do that.. just make pvp completely balanced..
no matter weapon you have the max damage you can do is say 25 damage.
cast a flame strike, 25 damage..

this way nobody can complain about being over powered.. cause nobody can be..

but you see the real problem is casters are different then warriors when it goes to dps.
warriors get 1.25s
casters get ex/fs combos..
you get poisoned, you cant heal.. mortal cant heal.

then you throw in some disarms, or para fields..

see how this CANT be balanced in any way?

Im fairly certain your taking this into sillyness.
And no one is complaining about a 30 sdi pure mage as he gave up being something else for it. The point of balance is what you give up for what you get. More damage for less spells for instance.
Your perfect world sounds like the trammyland that comes out and betrays you :/

 

[CovenantX]

if you want balance, then you cant have diversity..

I guess when everyone plays the same template its balanced ? Where is the diversity in that?

Balanced is not when everyone plays a thrower or an archer, and ALL other templates are obsolete.

If you ask me. most of the "Diversity" was taken out when mages could no longer cast spells & have a special weapon move toggled on at the same time, It was also taken away from dexers/archers by making Tactics skill a required part of their template. What was OP before this tactics change?
Ninjitsu mages?, well guess what, DS now requires Hiding & Stealth for the 60 damage Deathstrikes, problem solved.
Evasion Mages?, Evasion has a cooldown & Requires 80+ dex to be fully effective. problem solved. (it always required parry)

The only thing that I would have considered OP would be an Archer, doing 60 dmg AIs 2 times in a row (but keep in mind, this was Pre-imbuing and very rarely did anyone have a bow with 40 ssi), now that its common, AI is capped. problem solved. (but this weakened melee quite a bit)

I was actually talking to someone the other day about the "Pre-patched Talon Bite", they told me, it was OP because it had 2 hit kills. you know why this weapon was truly OP? Its because it had +8 dex, and there was no 150 dex cap.. thus allowing the wielder to heal themselves with bandages in less than 2 seconds. (keep in mind, this was Pre-imbuing) lots of people didn't have 70 phys resist because dexers could miss which is why, it would 2 shot you, if you go up to someone with 70 in all resist, and +25 hp inc (which most pvpers have regardless of template) this axe wouldn't even 3 shot people if it were still a PP weapon.

point is alot of changes were unnecessary, and should now be reverted.
(tactics requirement for specials & Mages casting while toggling specials on)

 

[Cetric]

Protection is one of those spells i think we could argue all day about, but if you want a fast simple solution lets just push the spell back to say lvl 5 or 6. I really dont think it needs a breaker as you can just vamp your opponent out of mana (assuming he doesnt have a magic resist suit).

However that purge working on animal form made sense to me. I honestly dont know why they change it to begin with, i mean how stupid is it that you see so many mages with ninja to begin with when they DONT have hiding or stealth. (yes i know its for escape i mean its silly its even allowed)

Stone form protection has its own issues, but so does wraith form, i thought the consequences vs balance was made up with the 30sdi bonus for being a pure mage but thats just me.

I really dont want to hammer on throwers more than the hld because they honestly give up other stuff for it. I just think hld is an easier solution to the problem (and quicker since they already wrote it).

Bestial suits.....lol thats about all i got to say to that as a solution isnt easy.

I disagree about leaving stuff like reflect phys to just be ....well...sh***y, the answer is to fix the problem, not accept bad programming.

its hard to defend protection, and i think puni has the best idea. give it some type of damage pool like magic reflect.

The problem with protection is it makes it tough on a dexer, not impossible, but tough. The real problem is coupling it with stone form. The only thing that can really take it out is a mystic with purge. A dexer is basically shot in the foot and a mage even with vamp isn't all that much better.

I think if stone form wasn't fully resistant to poison it could be dealt with.

 

[Cetric]

im dont see how everyone is bashing throwers..
i miss ALL THE TIME on my thrower.. the other day i did a baracoon on him and i counted 15 misses in a row..

i hit more on my archer then i do on my thrower, and i hit the most on my sampire.. he never misses it seems..

get on test center with a mage, shoot at him with an archer 1000 times. Do the same with the thrower and tell me your results.


Now couple that with the throwers weapons having higher base damage, and only needing 2 weapons for the 5 most desirable specials they would need, and thats what makes a thrower nasty. I don't care about your barracoon. If you missed 15 times in a row you were doing something horribly wrong in your suit or skill.

 

[CovenantX]

changes were unnecessary, and should now be reverted.
(tactics requirement for specials & Mages casting while toggling specials on)

given a little more thought about this, and maybe tactics should only be required for Ranged weapons to perform special weapon moves, This would imo balance alot of things, and bring back tons of templates.

Someone had recently (passed few weeks) posted a thread, asking which pub this was, that implemented the tactics change & mage specials, while casting/holding spells. and come to think of it, this is where pvp Really started going down-hill (atleast on LS).

 

[SugarSmacks]

its hard to defend protection, and i think puni has the best idea. give it some type of damage pool like magic reflect.

The problem with protection is it makes it tough on a dexer, not impossible, but tough. The real problem is coupling it with stone form. The only thing that can really take it out is a mystic with purge. A dexer is basically shot in the foot and a mage even with vamp isn't all that much better.

I think if stone form wasn't fully resistant to poison it could be dealt with.

I honestly dont know what the best fix for protection is like i said it could be a long argument

I dont know what dexxers your fighting but the intelligent ones ive come acrossed are already beating the crap out of me with an orc brute on top of spamming dp poison on me while purging me out of form with talismans.(well not the orc brute and talisman at the same time, but you get the picture)

The options are all there for dexxers its just most ppl cant figure out these simple solutions.

I really dont think stone forms too overpowered because doesnt wrait give you the ability to suck your opponents mana and walk thru them without stam loss (2 things).

Ive got to point out here mystics already got 5 nerfs in a row, and i cant remember a necro nerf ever.

 

[CovenantX]

Ive got to point out here mystics already got 5 nerfs in a row, and i cant remember a necro nerf ever.

Necro nerfs. would be vamp form is no longer usable for a necromage, because spells which take garlic damage the caster and LRC counts as using garlic for this now.

Poison Strike - used to be slightly faster, and the damage was ALOT higher, speed of poison strike was about the speed of a Cure spell, at 2/6 casting.
and the damage, was more equal to I would say Explosion against a person with 60 fire resist.

The real bane of necro, was Enchanted Apples... and the nerf to these apples made necro more viable again. (of course necromancy wasn't the only skill affected by apples)

Imo stone form, is really only overpowred when paired with protection.. basicly it means if you die 1v1 in stoneform+protection your horrible...
I don't think Protection should be usable while in stone form.

 

[SixUnder]

IM not gonna say anything in respone yet.

BUT, i will add i have had poisoning on SixUnder since we could use poisoning and had to wipe our weapons off with a cloth to remove the poison.

Before this patch, people could carry unlimited cures and gm nox meant nothing. However I kill people irregaurdles.

I have always killed, and will always kill my target. point is dont take 100 points of skill and make it useless again, well not useless just not totally unusable.

for example, if you reduce GM NOX effectiveness, put in a cure pot timer, etc.

ok i was not gonna post i wanted to see what people said about templates. BY far NOX is junk compared to others i could post on here.

 

[SixUnder]

get on test center with a mage, shoot at him with an archer 1000 times. Do the same with the thrower and tell me your results.


Now couple that with the throwers weapons having higher base damage, and only needing 2 weapons for the 5 most desirable specials they would need, and thats what makes a thrower nasty. I don't care about your barracoon. If you missed 15 times in a row you were doing something horribly wrong in your suit or skill.

Yes throwing is nasty. Only If you play it correctly, or just are lucky. there are tiles that matter for range and for damage. Yes they got a bump in HCI but got weakness too. No one uses it.

Want to kick a throwers but? stand on top of them at all times. all you will here is wiff wiff wiff wiff........

 

[Poo]

Poisoning needs a HARD timer set to it so you cant repoison the same target for say 20 secounds after the first time.
If you pvped back in say 2001 then you remember this patch, it was the EXACT same thing. Origin claimed it was overpowered at the time and turned it back. So what do people do now? Its called poison poison poison poison poison over and over. I mean thats the whole fight....how pathetic eh?

balls to that!

if youve invested 100 points into poisoning then you should be able to use it whenever the hell ya want to!

and you bet your ass morons with 40 GCure pots on them should fail 8/10 times!

only thing pathetic is pot chugging skript runners.
nothing more obvious then when ya nox someone and they have 5 pots chugged before their bar even turns green.

and there is a cap on poison, its called mana, same as everyone else who gets to use specials, only a poisoner has to INVEST 100 points into it and no one else has too.

 

[kelmo]

I agree with Poo. *thinks* That just sounds wierd. Poo...

 

[Lynk]

However I kill people irregaurdles.

Even if you spelled it correctly, it still isn't a word.

Kraz is just mad because a mystic mage isn't the most OP template.

Nox does need a nerf, but not back to how it was before. I agree with Cetric that if you have Alch and max EP you should not ever fail a cure pot.

I also agree that removing the ability to toggle specs with spells casted was stupid and eliminated alot of diversity.

I don't really think gargs hit all that more often, but do agree base damage on soul glaive needs to be taken down a few notches.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The big thing with PvP changes has always been the way the screw up PvM, and the latter of course is the majority of the playerbase, even as PvP's the only playstyle certified as important by the Producer.

However, as someone who primarily PvMs and only PvPs on occasion? I don't see anything in the original poster's list that sounds like it'll mess up PvM.

The one I'm least sure about off-hand is the speed cap thing but I tend to share the original poster's suggestion that it's hard to believe most of us come all-that-close to the server side speed cap. (Assuming that's what he's referring to, the server-side speed cap that Speeedman put in some years back.)

There's probably something horrendous I'm not thinking of...But off-hand? The original suggestions appear to be something that'll help PvP (I noticed very little disagreement with the original suggestions) without screwing up PvM.

Some of the other posts had suggestions of a similar character; too tired to read thoroughly.

-Galen's player

PS: Sorry Lynk, "irregardless" is a word, it's just not preferred. That link has a great quote, that while it is a word, "its reputation has not risen over the years."

PPS: Looking over the thread again I see more disagreement with the original suggestions than I thought there was. Oh well.

 

[puni666]

balls to that!

if youve invested 100 points into poisoning then you should be able to use it whenever the hell ya want to!

and you bet your ass morons with 40 GCure pots on them should fail 8/10 times!

only thing pathetic is pot chugging skript runners.
nothing more obvious then when ya nox someone and they have 5 pots chugged before their bar even turns green.It's not hard to assume someone's going to poison you and hold down your cure potion button...

and there is a cap on poison, its called mana, same as everyone else who gets to use specials, only a poisoner has to INVEST 100 points into it and no one else has too. Oh the 3 Mana it takes to initially use infectious and the mighty 6 mana it takes to spam it... yeah some "cap"

...

 

[SugarSmacks]

Necro nerfs. would be vamp form is no longer usable for a necromage, because spells which take garlic damage the caster and LRC counts as using garlic for this now.

Poison Strike - used to be slightly faster, and the damage was ALOT higher, speed of poison strike was about the speed of a Cure spell, at 2/6 casting.
and the damage, was more equal to I would say Explosion against a person with 60 fire resist.

The real bane of necro, was Enchanted Apples... and the nerf to these apples made necro more viable again. (of course necromancy wasn't the only skill affected by apples)

Imo stone form, is really only overpowred when paired with protection.. basicly it means if you die 1v1 in stoneform+protection your horrible...
I don't think Protection should be usable while in stone form.

Have you seen poison strike lately if you have poison? Apparently not, you would not say it isnt overpowered

I really dont understand how purge is so complicated, especially when you can get it on talismans and have as big a pile of said talismans to use on your opponent.

And i dont remember necros using vamp, thats just a soloist complaining he cant chug, i mean, who cares lol!

 

[CovenantX]

I would like to see some of these PvP changes that screwed PvM up. Honestly I can't think of any off-hand.

 

[SugarSmacks]

balls to that!

if youve invested 100 points into poisoning then you should be able to use it whenever the hell ya want to!

and you bet your ass morons with 40 GCure pots on them should fail 8/10 times!

only thing pathetic is pot chugging skript runners.
nothing more obvious then when ya nox someone and they have 5 pots chugged before their bar even turns green.

and there is a cap on poison, its called mana, same as everyone else who gets to use specials, only a poisoner has to INVEST 100 points into it and no one else has too.

Congratulations on being a prime example of what this game doesnt need.

Your statements are the equivalant of I WANT MY GIMP TEMPLATE AND YOU CANT STOP ME!

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I would like to see some of these PvP changes that screwed PvM up. Honestly I can't think of any off-hand.

Too tired to list them all tonight. But I will knock out some of them tomorrow, unless someone beats me to the punch. But there have been MANY that fit the criteria.

Just off the top of my head before I turn in ... anything to do with tamer nerfs, from use of pet balls, to nerfing how they attack to the damage they do.

 

[kelmo]

Congratulations on being a prime example of what this game doesnt need.

Your statements are the equivalant of I WANT MY GIMP TEMPLATE AND YOU CANT STOP ME!

Yer bordering on personal attack... If you want to keep this thread and discussion going... settle down and debate the idea.

 

[CovenantX]

Have you seen poison strike lately if you have poison? Apparently not, you would not say it isnt overpowered

I really dont understand how purge is so complicated, especially when you can get it on talismans and have as big a pile of said talismans to use on your opponent.

And i dont remember necros using vamp, thats just a soloist complaining he cant chug, i mean, who cares lol!

So you say Poison strike is OP now... Oh... but its not because of Necromancy? your right... its because of Poisoning... good call bud..
btw Poison strike has a pretty low chance of actually poisoning you.


Purge isn't complicated at all, the reason it is complained about is because a Mystics Weakness, is pretty much only ANOTHER MYSTIC...
Edit: (If you know what your doing)

Vamp form on a necro-mage was used ALOT back when it was possible to heal via magery and not kill yourself, and this change (And the poison strike nerf) was before imbuing came out.. so I could understand why you didn't know about it.

 

[SixUnder]

Congratulations on being a prime example of what this game doesnt need.

Your statements are the equivalant of I WANT MY GIMP TEMPLATE AND YOU CANT STOP ME!

Yer bordering on personal attack... If you want to keep this thread and discussion going... settle down and debate the idea.

poisoning with necro works at like a 3-6% chance if your target has resist. If you have no resist or are in protection you will get poisoned all the time i would think. Otherwise it should never go off.

 

[SixUnder]

So you say Poison strike is OP now... Oh... but its not because of Necromancy? your right... its because of Poisoning... good call bud..
btw Poison strike has a pretty low chance of actually poisoning you.


Purge isn't complicated at all, the reason it is complained about is because a Mystics Weakness, is pretty much only ANOTHER MYSTIC...
Edit: (If you know what your doing)

Vamp form on a necro-mage was used ALOT back when it was possible to heal via magery and not kill yourself, and this change (And the poison strike nerf) was before imbuing came out.. so I could understand why you didn't know about it.

I carry 8 talisman with me all the time, 3 orc brute and 5 ward removal talismans at all times. If i am lucky 1 of 10 tries works to remove stone form. It will always remove another ward before that one for me. They spam their spell plague and i just move to the next target. They are nasty together but not 1 v1.

with evil omen the way it is, plus all the other curses, and the reduction in apple timer, necro is the nastiest of them all.

 

[aarons6]

i think they should bring back the full leeches to ranged weapons..
it sucks to only leech back 27 mana cause my weapon is fast..
compared to 55 to 60 others get.

 

[pgib]

I would like to see some of these PvP changes that screwed PvM up. Honestly I can't think of any off-hand.

Apples timer, heal potion timers, potion weight, pet speed, pet teleport, followers slots, casting speed, casting recovery, spell resistance, healing speed, healing amount, cure potions, swing speed, mana regeneration, hit point regeneration, veterinary, stamina regeneration, hiding potion timer, hiding potion interruption, conflagration timer... and i could go on for days.

The reason why everyone plays necro-warriors variations in pvm is because pvp screwed up all the alternatives.

edit: well, not pvp, just the way designers balance stuff. There are countless ways to preserve both.

 

[Warpig Inc]

i think they should bring back the full leeches to ranged weapons..
it sucks to only leech back 27 mana cause my weapon is fast..
compared to 55 to 60 others get.

damage VS speed VS leech % VS weapon range. Took me years to get a friend to stop using their archer like a dexer. Change your weapon skill or learn to enjoy the distance.

 

[SugarSmacks]

So you say Poison strike is OP now... Oh... but its not because of Necromancy? your right... its because of Poisoning... good call bud..
btw Poison strike has a pretty low chance of actually poisoning you.


Purge isn't complicated at all, the reason it is complained about is because a Mystics Weakness, is pretty much only ANOTHER MYSTIC...
Edit: (If you know what your doing)

Vamp form on a necro-mage was used ALOT back when it was possible to heal via magery and not kill yourself, and this change (And the poison strike nerf) was before imbuing came out.. so I could understand why you didn't know about it.

What i am saying (let me be explicit here) poison strikes damage you take now if you have poisoning on top of its casting speed is op.

It sounds to me like we need purge pots to be honest.

a mystics weakness is a necro mage, i think mages all around know that, the only problem is a necro mage is alot of templates weaknesses. (see complaint on top)

I would also like to clear up when i said in the first post about poison poison poison i meant infectious strike, mages dont get the opportunity to chain poison you like dexxers do. But literally i have fought MANY dexxers who just hit you with infectious 20 times in a row, so i go rock form and so you complain about rock form now.....LOL
I had hoped the answer to something broken wasnt break something new.

 

[Martell]

Easiest solution to Nox would have been to put a timer on cure pots.

 

[CovenantX]

Apples timer, heal potion timers, potion weight, pet speed, pet teleport, followers slots, casting speed, casting recovery, spell resistance, healing speed, healing amount, cure potions, swing speed, mana regeneration, hit point regeneration, veterinary, stamina regeneration, hiding potion timer, hiding potion interruption, conflagration timer... and i could go on for days.

The reason why everyone plays necro-warriors variations in pvm is because pvp screwed up all the alternatives.

edit: well, not pvp, just the way designers balance stuff. There are countless ways to preserve both.

I believe most of these were changed because they were OP in both pvm/pvp, these would include stat-caps & property-caps. as for stat regens, there is not really a Cap, (atleast I'm pretty sure) instead, a Soft cap, to where you get diminishing returns after (18 regen soft-cap)?

Swing Speed, was capped since AoS, but there was a bug involving special weapon moves, being toggled on/off to allow this "ssi cap" to be ignored.

Potion/apple timers/cooldowns, were more than likely added for pvp reason, no arguement here whatsoever.

Follower Slots? I don't consider this a nerf at all, i look at this as 100% Balance, before follower slots, a tamer could have unlimited pets, That was overpowered for both Pvm & Pvp. of course pets couldn't bond before the follower slots were implemented.

I think your "Edit" is the main focus..

When they nerf things, they tend to nerf them in the wrong way.

They've proved they could implement caps for pvp, without affecting pvm skills with Chivalry in pub 71? not saying it wasn't nerfed, but I believe it was more of a balance, I mean 65.0 chivalry, gave you pretty much (besides holylight) Everything this skill had to offer providing you had positive Karma.

which makes me think of the "Tactics & specials while casting/holding spells" (Tactics should still be required for Throwing & Archery, IF they were to remove the requirement from other skills.)

I just don't feel it's necessary to have this restriction anymore especially with the further changes to bushido, ninjitsu, stat caps, and AI/bushido crit 35 dmg caps.


What would be overpowered now if they removed these restrictions?

 

[CovenantX]

What i am saying (let me be explicit here) poison strikes damage you take now if you have poisoning on top of its casting speed is op.

Necro - Poison Strike - chance to poison the target (based on targets resist And with poisoning skill only?)
Mystic - Bombard - chance to stun the target (based on targets resist)

It sounds to me like we need purge pots to be honest.

Dunno about purge pots, but something of the sort (Other forms of purge, not requiring mysticism), could be nice.

a mystics weakness is a necro mage, i think mages all around know that, the only problem is a necro mage is alot of templates weaknesses.

I don't see how a mystic is "Weak" vs a necromage, when Protection + Cleanse winds, is still possible...

I guess you could say EO+ Mana vamp? or EO+Paralyze? and hope the mana dump can kill them before they can use their healstone/recover more mana to cast cleanse winds?... I just don't see how a necromage is strong vs a mystic mage.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about a DP-Necro-Mage, there is a BIG difference
But in no way is necromancy overpowered compared to mysticism, mysticism can remove curses (which most of the best necro spells are)
sure they're fast spells, but in protection speed doesn't matter so much when it takes 3-4 seconds to combo someone, and it takes about 2 seconds to cast cleanse winds (in protection).

With regards to the whole poison strike and DP, this is just one change with poisoning i don't agree with, not because it shouldn't have a chance to poison.. But because Poisoning itself is overpowered atm.

 

[Obsidian]

I run a stoneform mystic dexxer using protection... but for PvM only. It is a good tank for things like Slasher and Corgul. I can't imagine it would any be good for PvP because it can't dish out big damage and it moves slow. But that said, all I ask is that we remember there are uses for protection and stoneform outside of PvP. I run protection on just about all of my PvM templates (sampires, wraith throwers, even my PvM focused necro-mage). Any significant change to how these two items work will have an equally dramatic impact outside the PvP community.

 

[pgib]

Well, stone form and protection are a must for a pvm tamer when it comes down to big stuff: i can almost keep my gd alive against the slasher. Almost...

 

[dukarlo]

I think Infectious Strikes mana cost needs to be increased GREATLY. Why should it cost so little in relation to other specials. I also think each application of dp to a weapon has way to many charges. Reduce the charges to 5 or so. At least that way there would be another thing a dp dexer would have to do other than click chase and toggle.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Looks like the agreement wasn't quite as universal as I thought.

Perhaps the biggest reason they have such a hard time tweaking or balancing (or whatever term they want to use) PvP, besides the possibility of messing up PvM and alienating most of their players, is that there's very far from universal agreement in the PvP community about what changes are necessary.

Look at this comparatively short thread.

-Galen's player

 

[Mook Chessy]

Two points here

Leave throwing alone...No disarm...No bleed. Please dont forget the drawbacks..no parry and with the crazy shields dropping in shame!

The most overpowered thing in the game has been the curse spell!!!

* off to make a thread to the devs *

 

[SugarSmacks]

I think Infectious Strikes mana cost needs to be increased GREATLY. Why should it cost so little in relation to other specials. I also think each application of dp to a weapon has way to many charges. Reduce the charges to 5 or so. At least that way there would be another thing a dp dexer would have to do other than click chase and toggle.

I thought a timer on how quick you could poison you target was the answer but bumping the mana cost up to something actually reasonable doesnt sound bad either.

 

[SugarSmacks]

Necro - Poison Strike - chance to poison the target (based on targets resist And with poisoning skill only?)
Mystic - Bombard - chance to stun the target (based on targets resist)



Dunno about purge pots, but something of the sort (Other forms of purge, not requiring mysticism), could be nice.



I don't see how a mystic is "Weak" vs a necromage, when Protection + Cleanse winds, is still possible...

I guess you could say EO+ Mana vamp? or EO+Paralyze? and hope the mana dump can kill them before they can use their healstone/recover more mana to cast cleanse winds?... I just don't see how a necromage is strong vs a mystic mage.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about a DP-Necro-Mage, there is a BIG difference
But in no way is necromancy overpowered compared to mysticism, mysticism can remove curses (which most of the best necro spells are)
sure they're fast spells, but in protection speed doesn't matter so much when it takes 3-4 seconds to combo someone, and it takes about 2 seconds to cast cleanse winds (in protection).

With regards to the whole poison strike and DP, this is just one change with poisoning i don't agree with, not because it shouldn't have a chance to poison.. But because Poisoning itself is overpowered atm.

I am going to assume you are not a dueling mage or the question about how a necro mage is overpowered wouldnt even really be a question.

Go start by comparing mystic spells (long cast times) to necro spells (short cast times)

BTW mages arent the ones complaining about stone form, its solid dexxers because no mage would be foolish to cast it in a mage fight for the casting penaltys.

Poison strike is overpowered with poisoning due to damage not because it has a chance to poison,thats the 2nd time ive pointed this out now.

This is actually a funny thread all the people i have been fighting for YEARS agree with me almost completly, while most the trammel people sit and argue roflcopters.

BTW if you see the devs screw with stone form BEFORE they fix poison you know they are just asking this game to die.

 

[pgib]

know they are just asking this game to die.

Let's not be tragic, even if they completely remove pvp we loose like 0.005% of the player base.

 

[Mervyn]

Let's not be tragic, even if they completely remove pvp we loose like 0.005% of the player base.

ok, i'll admit i haven't been to trammel for a while, but please could you tell me what you're talking about?

 

[SixUnder]

I think Infectious Strikes mana cost needs to be increased GREATLY. Why should it cost so little in relation to other specials. I also think each application of dp to a weapon has way to many charges. Reduce the charges to 5 or so. At least that way there would be another thing a dp dexer would have to do other than click chase and toggle.

It only costs that much mana because in order for you to use it "efectively", you must posses the skill. Inheritanly costing you 80 plus skills point, this then has to have a benfit with the special move calculator to even make sense. So they reduced its cost to use.

 

[Wojoe]

With nox a mage has a 5% chance to cast LP, The problem is warrior types spam infectious strike and hit for LP 100% of the time. To balance this give infectious strike the same 5% chance to hit for LP...problem solved