Necromancy and Chivalry on same template

[Rotgut Willy]

With the advice of several threads in this forum I've started a new character with the following short term goals:

GM Swordsmanship
GM Tactics
GM Parrying
GM Necromancy
GM Bushido
GM Spirit Speak
GM Chivalry

Long term... I'll probably drop Chivalry to 60 (If I even ever make it to GM) in order to raise other skills above GM... or possibly take Focus or Meditation to 40.

My question (because I'm a total n00b) is are there any real drawbacks to having both Necromancy and Chivalry on the same template since several Chivalry abilities are karma based? Are the karma based abilities just not all that useful? Or at least, not as useful as the non-karma based skills when combined with the Necromancy spells?

Any tips on playing the above template? I've never played with Necromancy, Bushido, Spirit Speak, or Chivalry before.

Also, what armor stats are suggested? I'm training with a 100% LRC suit to save money. But because this is a "in your face and beating you down" kind of character, I'm guessing a suit with more resists would be better, or possibly something that boosts mana regeneration? But then I have to make sure I have plenty of tithes, and carry Necromancy reagents, etc. A non-issue?

How does Meditation or Focus play into it? With slow mana regeneration, is that an issue, or is mana regeneration without Meditation or Focus enough to get by?

Sorry for the nub questions, and thanks!

 

[Connor_Graham]

The main Necro spells you'll be using don't use karma in their figures (Vamp Empbrace, Wraith Form & Curse Weapon), so the only thing you'll need to worry about is keeping your karma at a high level for Chiv. Depending on how much you hunt (and die), you'll probably need to farm karma once or twice a week. I suggest the Succubus in the Fan Dancer Dojo for this, as they have a VERY fast respawn rate and are at max level for karma gains. You can go from Dread Lord to Glorious Lord in about 2 hours there.

Tips-

-A Sampire or Wammy must use a weapon with Stamina Leech, Mana Leech, SSI and DI. Anything else is a bonus but these are must haves for the template.

-Load up with HCI and DCI on your gear. You need as close to max as possible.

-The Assassin Armor set is awesome for a Sampire.

-Mace & Shield glasses are highly suggested as the head piece

-I'd suggest going with 65 Chiv. I tried 60 and the failure rate on Cons Wep and Divine Fury was just too high to use it effectively. Several near death experiences convinced me to raise it to the 65 I have now and I find it perfect at this level.



Regs- For Vamp form, a pair of Arcane Boots is enough to cover you in case of death. They carry 20 charges, so that's 20 times you can recast your form. For Curse Wep, you'll want to carry a stack of pig iron on you. I wouldn't suggest trying to put together a LRC suit for this character. You'll need the armor slots for artifacts like Rune Beetle Carapace or Heart of the Lion for chest, Royal Leggings of Ember or Fey Leggings for legs, Stormgrip or Gauntlets of Nobility for hands, Jackal's Collar for neck, and of course the Mace & Shield Glasses.

Armor-

As I've mentioned, HCI and DCI are primary properties you want in your suit. Aside from that, a little Mana Regen helps, along with as much Mana Inc and Stam Inc you can get to help boost your stats.

Don't add Med or Focus. You'll need the points in other skills. You get 3 MR from Vamp Form, and Wraith form leeches mana. Combine these with a GOOD Mana Leech weapon and you'll find you're rarely without mana.

I'd suggest going with 120 in Wep Skill, Parry and Bushido. You can drop Tactics to 95 for the extra 5 points you'll need for Chiv and then you'll be set. You might also want to have GM Resist set aside on a soulstone to swap for Spirit Speak when using Vamp Form. Curse Wep isn't necessary (although against non casting creatures makes you nigh invincible) when in Vamp form, so Resist can be swapped out when fighting creatures that cast, especially Necro casters. It makes for a little bit of freedom in the template and added survivability. I also keep GM Anatomy on a stone to swap out for SS when fighting non casting creatures like Miasma just for the additional damage it gives.

 

[Farsight]

And the same answer, but on a budget:

Farming named ML monsters (My favorite was Miasma, even when I was only GM macing) is great to keep your karma up and give you a chance at the minor artifacts which come with.

My favorite weapon (macing) was tessen with 30% mana leech and swing speed increase. I could lightning strike all day and never run out of mana. This should be considered the bare minimum bonus for what you have as a weapon. Adding in stamina leech and harder hitting weapons just makes life easier.

Even casting a lot of necromancy spells, my karma never dropped below Noble Lord, and never got above Illustrious Lord unless I was fighting peerless alone, in which case the karma drop outweighed the gain. I used a lot of curse weapon, animate dead, strangle and pain spike as well as the forms. My hunts were usually in the Citadel or the Labyrinth, with occasional runs to Sanctuary. The mages casting EV's at the succubi were always very surprised at my ability to go hand to hand in that room.

I never had much HCI in my samurai, but it's very handy to have.

DCI is critical. If you can't muster at least 40% DCI for a suit, you'll never be able to fight the big guys. (it's really easy to do, Heart of Lion, Fey Leggings and Ancient Samurai helm and you're there, all cheap armor pieces)

Swing speed is the most important aspect of your weapon. If you aren't swinging at max speed, then you won't leech as much, and your survivability drops a lot.

Other than that, make Connor's advice your long term goal (or short term if you have the funds).

 

[Rotgut Willy]

Sweet. Thanks for all the tips.

I guess I better start saving my gold for equipment instead of deco'ing my house.. lol. The cheapest I've seen Heart of Lion is 100k. That's a lot for my newbie self.

Thanks again, both of you!

Btw, I chose swords for my weapon. Should I have chosen mace? (I already have a peace warrior using swords, so give this guy macing would split up the weapon pool.. give them each the best of whatever I come across.)


EDIT:

Also, any tips on stats? Currently I have Intelligence locked at 50. I was thinking 90 Str/85 Dex.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

The consensus to my understanding with the infamous sampire template seems to be macing, BUT I myself prefer swordsmanship. It just really depends on your flavor. I would go with what they said though as far as weapon specs. Weapons with whirlwind get a bonus, but they are one-handed ones as far as swordsmanship is concerned.

I myself use an ornate axe, just need high SSI on those sorts of weapons in my book.

Other than that there are good templates similar to yours and different as well...that use both sides of the karma output. The key as it has been said is to...depending on your skills, farm karma once or twice a week.

Anything that gives level 5 fame...which is the max, is good as long as its a FAST spawn point. My favorites are wyrms or shadow wyrms. Both of these are max fame as well as the creatures both Connor and Farsight mentioned.

As a final note with what you have asked, I'm not sure on your equipment setup and some might disagree with me but since I fight mostly spellcasting mobs I try for 100 strength AFTER being cursed.

That said, it is mostly due to the fact I use some equipment with strength requirements. Not a big deal but I prefer high strength. Additionally, especially a newer character, I would pack on as much dexterity as you can handle. Anything with equipment that adds up to 140 will benefit you so that you are able to cap out on your SWING SPEED. I don't remember right off but I believe the magical value you would like is 1.25 on the fast weapons.

Heavy hitters like Ornates will have a swing delay of 2.00 seconds...not withstanding SSI. I highly recommend that if you have enough DCI/DI on your weapons and jewelry...other armor, legs or arms, to use rune carapace.

Defense is first though so if you can't fit it in...use Heart of Lion.

You actually don't need a ton of mana for the setup you want to do.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

So far with all the advice in this thread and forum, along with my own tweaks I think I'm doing pretty good. I still need to learn how to play it effectively because I seem to get my butt handed to me quite easily. But this is where I'm at:

110/110 Parry
100/100 Spirit Speak
100/100 Necromancy
83.1/110 Bushido
81.4/70 Chivalry
73.6/100 Tactics
69.8/110 Swordsmanship

95 STR / 85 DEX / 45 INT (And mana does not seem to be an issue.)

I'm sporting a Heart of the Lion accompanied by various leather duds that get my resists across the board 50-70. Jewelry giving me +42% Damage. Using an Ornate Axe:

Hit Life Leech 80%
Hit Chance Increase 9%
Damage Increase 43%
Cold Resist 8%
Physical Damage 60%
Fire Damaga 40%

The Axe was free.. someone at New Haven Bank gave it to me the first week I started. Nice Axe with the 80% Life Leech but it's slow. So I guess I should be shopping for a heavy hitting 2H with good Swing Speed Increase. Swing Speed definitely feels like an issue.

Tactics have been to hunt in Vampire Form spamming Confidence and Lightning Strike, using an occasional Vengeful Spirit or Undead to help out (not using Enemy of One because of mixed company). I've just been hitting up Despise and farming Earth Elementals for Fertile Dirt and practice my technique while training Bushido, Swords and Tactics. I do fine against up to 2-3 Earth Elementals or Ettins but beyond that things start to get hairy and I find myself needing to back off frequently and heal... and Momentum Strike doesn't seem to be all that effective for me. I think once I GM(+) Bushido, Swords and Tactics, my Life Leech should start kicking in a bit more and I'll be much better off. And as soon as I can save up the gold, I'll shop for better armor. It sounds like a good suit of armor is going to cost me several hundred thousand gold.. or more. Not to mention stat scrolls and 120 powerscrolls (I've used 110's so far.. I found some that fit my budget.)

Edit: I just remembered that I have 2 Blaze of Death's stashed away from hunting Paragons on my Peace Warrior. They have +25% SSI.

 

[Connor_Graham]

2 things that I see from your post.

1- The resists you have in the 50's HAVE to get up at minimum into the 60's. You're taking too much damage because of them.

2- You need a faster weapon. An ornate axe with no ssi is way too slow for the Sampire template. If nothing else, just find a radiant scimitar, katana, or something else with a 2-2.25 base swing speed and mana leech so you can leech more often and keep your life and mana up. As things stand now, you're not leeching enough life back to keep yourself alive. If you have a 120 Smith, or know one, you might want to start investing in Bronze and Copper runic hammers and see if you can make what you need. That's what I did with all of my weapons, and now only use weps that I've made myself because they're better than any loot I've ever been able to find.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

Yep.. that's what I meant when I said the swing speed definitely feels like an issue. I'm not connecting often enough to leech enough life to keep me going. Of course, my swords and tactics are still low as well.

I have a smith but my account is only just over a month old and I've been focusing on my peace warrior and this new sampire character. I spent my fortune so far on a home and equipment for my peace warrior. So my smith/crafter is just now getting his skills into the 60's and 70's.

I have a Couple Blaze of Death's I can swap in, as well as a nice Radiant Scimitar my peace warrior used for a while. I think those should work for a while until I can get something better. Meanwhile, I guess I'll focus farming gold for the armor. I really only know one person in game, a RL friend who started at about the same time I did. We're kinda in the same boat.

Thanks!

 

[Connor_Graham]

You might want to consider spending some time on your Smith along with the warrior, if even for only an hour a day or whatever you can spare. Smith's are great money makers when you're working the Bod system, and will be used heavily as a support character for the warrior in enhancing and repairing armor and weapons. If you happen to be on Pacific let me know. I can give both you and your friend a hand with your gear. I've also got a Legendary Smith/Tailor so can enhance anything you happen to get that's worth keeping. My suggestion at this point is to keep any armor that has a total of 45 resists for enhancing to build your armor up. Anything lower than that just leave on the corpse.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

We're on Napa but thanks for the offer!

I still need to figure out the whole enhancement system too. I played years ago. Started up in Beta and played until maybe a month after T2A was released. But then I started up again on a new account just over a month ago. Soooo much has changed. It's like a new game.

So thanks for all the advice, it's definitely appreciated.

I geared my guy up a little more last night. He's using a Radiant Scimitar now with speed and damage mods. And all his resists are 60-70. I hit up the Painted Caves and was amazed at how well I did. I can't take Lurg or Gorub but Trog's will learn to fear me. Taking on 2-3, sometimes 4 Trog's at a time is no problem. In Wraith Form I cast Enemy of One, then Curse Weapon, then Confidence, and spammed Lightning Strike.

Wow.

I made gold so fast that a couple times I didn't realize I was already overloaded and had to leave gold on the ground. In 15 minutes I went from tier 1 fame and tier -5 karma to tier 4 fame and tier 3 karma. My swords, tactics and bushido rose through the roof.

I'm going to need to find more good weapons. My Radiant Scimitar had to be repaired between almost every visit to the caves and it's max durability is down to 49.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You might try out the whirlwind special on the radiant scimitar. Nothing can beat it when you've got multiple targets. You hit all of them and leech life from all of them on every swing.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

I started using Whirlwind and Momentum Strike. Very nice!

I find that most times I don't even need to use Curse Weapon (saving myself the karma hit). Instead I just spam Confidence/Lightning Strike together and, at least for Troglodytes and Minotaurs, that keeps me going pretty good.

I have a Radiant Scimitar with Scorpion Slaying.. thinking about trying to tackle Miasma.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You might want to wait until you get your skills up before trying to take on Miasma. He can be pretty tough when you're at less than 110 wep skill. The poison is what gets you, and if you're not hitting it due to having a low wep skill you're not leeching enough to keep you alive. Add the poison damage to the 25-30ish damage per hit and you'd be dead pretty fast.

 

[Rotgut Willy]

This is where I'm at right now (I played a lot this past weekend... racked up about a 3/4 million gold from farming Troglodytes, Minotaurs, Hiryu's and others. Although.. I spent only a small portion on this character. Most of it I spent on my house.)

110 Parry
106.3 Bushido
106 Swords
100 (110) Spirit Speak
100 (105) Necromancy
100 Tactics
77.7 Chivalry

Equipment:

Armor: Totaling 70 Physical, 66 Fire, 70 Cold, 65 Poison, 70 Energy. Including Heart of the Lion (DCI 15%) and Aegis Of Grace (DCI 20%).

Weapon: Righteous Anger (HCI 15%, DCI 5%, SSI 35%, DI 40%, 2.75 Weapon Speed). (But I have a Radiant Scimitar with Scorpion Slaying.)

Jewelry: Totaling DCI 9%, DI 42%.

Talisman: Bloodwood Spirit (+10 Spirit Speak, +5 Necromancy).


Right now I'm still just exploring the lands. I need to figure out where that "Fan Dancer Dojo" is that you mentioned. Heck, I don't even have any idea where "Doom" or anything else is, other than the original dungeons.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'd wait a little while longer before trying Miasma. Even at 106 Swords you'll be missing too often. I'd also suggest you start shopping around or specifically looking in looted corpses for a weapon with at minimum DI, SSI, and Mana Leech. You also need Stamina Leech to complete the weapon, but you can get by to start with one that just has the Mana Leech. Stamina Leech is a key property for several reasons. It keeps you at full swing speed after you take damage so you continue to leech life at an acceptable rate. It keeps you from having to use Divine Fury which lowers your DCI. It keeps you from having to drink potions or run off to regen stamina when you reach that dangerously low point.

If you haven't started playing with it yet, you should be trying out Evasion and getting used to it. Using Evasion when you're getting low on HP's and/or Stamina is a key defensive tool that enables you to keep in the fight and continue to leech life even though your character is hurting.

It's too bad you're not on Pac. I've still got the elven machete that I started out with on my sampire. It's got all the properties you'd need and would hold you until you found or made one of your own. You really do need to spend some time trying to find one. You'll see a drastic improvement in how your character handles the tougher situations.

 

[Farsight]

You could certainly try Miasma. I trained up two weapon skills (swords and macing) on one character from 95-115 using mostly Miasma, so it is possible. It will certainly be easier when you get to 110 skill, but it isn't impossible with less.

And if you use wraith form, you are already leeching mana, so you can cast curse weapon and lightning strike all you want without worrying about it. Personally, I used a mana leech weapon, vampire form and still cursed my weapon for double life leech. With that set up, you can pretty much ignore the poison until the fight is over. Then if another doesn't spawn right away, you'll have to cure yourself pretty quickly.

Give it a shot. Worst that can happen is a quick death! (And there's usually a healer right outside)