Mystic Thrower

[Eärendil]

Dear Experts,

let me please first point out that of my 28+ fully developed chars there are only two fighters - I am not playing fighters usually. Spellcasters have my full love. Hence, it is typical for me, that even my two fighters have a strong spellcasting part. So, you ALL know much more of fighters, I am a total and utter noob and fool in this issue.

Here is my question: I built my mystic thrower 4 years ago and its suit seems to be a bit outdated. The skills are these:



Note, and this is the first prerequisite, I dont want to change the skills.

My humble question: Can you give me some advice on how the suit should look like so that it is versatile for most combat situations? Which arties would you suggest? How should the rest of the suit look like?

This is how he looks like naked:



Note, I am not super-rich and cannot afford suits for billions. It shoud just give him enough punch and versatility to be able to deal with most situations - not necessaritly solo. He solos Navrey without any problems and does a good job with Lady M or Medusa but he performs bad at new Doom.

Any suggestions for a cool suit?

THANK YOU!

 

[Eärendil]

However, I could put something on a stone and train a new skill if necessary...

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I think you should try and fit Healing on there by adjusting skill levels. For example you only need 60 Tactics for specials. You could lower Anatomy and Chivalry. Weapon skill should be 120, as should Mysticism. You should then plan to play in Protection and in Stone Form with the necessary resists in the suit. This would take advantage of the fact you can't be Cursed and have your bandage speed slowed, or blocked by Poison. You can combine this with Healing Stone, and Cleansing Wind on Spell Trigger so that you have many options for healing. Mace works a bit better than Throwing for a Stone Form dexxer as you can still reach the swing cap with weapons with good base damage.

For the suit, I would make the priority 100 LRC, 55 LMC. If you use Warriors Gift you will have 10 HCI from that and being a garg, so will only need 35 on suit. If you stay with Throwing you may as well forego DCI, you need to work out your Dex/Stam/SSI & Str levels for the best swing you can achieve with the highest base damage - again if you're staying with Throwing you're not going to be able to reach the cap, you pretty much only want to use Soul Glaives. Warriors Gift also gives 5 Str. You can always drink Greater Str/Dex pots if needed.

You can also forego SC on the weapon by using Enchant with Hit Dispel when you don't want to trigger counter attacks.

 

[Eärendil]

Cool! Thank you! How should the skill list look like if you would design it from the scratch?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

120 Weapon
90 Tactics
90 Healing
90 Anatomy
120 Mysticism
120 Focus
90 Chivalry

You want 120 real skill in anything you intend to use the Mastery for. You want 120 weapon skill after items even if you're not using the Mastery as it is both your hit and defense. You want 120 Mysticism/Focus after items even if you're not using the Mastery because it affects the benefits and protection of Stone Form among other spells. Most of the other skills can fluctuate depending on how much you're using them, and availability/viability of skill increase items. For example if you're using Solider's Medal that's an extra 10 Tactics. You could have Heal/Anat as low as 80 and use the points to get Tactics or Chivalry to 120. Tactics can go as low as 60 for using specials.

The first thing to do with the suit is figure out what you can realistically achieve for Stam/SSI, depending on how much you intend to play in Stone Form (personally I'd be in it most of the time when fighting) you need to factor in the SSI penalty which *I think* is -10. Although you can't be cursed in Stone Form to lose Stamina you still lose it by taking damage so may want 10 or so more than you need. It works in thresholds of 30, and as you would want at least 140 Dex anyway for your bandage speed, your Stamina could be 150 (160 with a buffer for damage), 180 (190 with buffer), or 210 (unlikely to be viable with the need for LRC on suit). You also really want your Str to be high so that you have maximum range with your Soul Glaive if you're still going Throwing. You need to factor in these stat increases (unless you're just going to use potions constantly) early on as it'll in part determine what Imbuing slots you have left for things like HCI/DI/skill increase on your jewellery. On the armour you want to factor in Stamina Increase, LRC, LMC, resists, HP Increase, Mana Increase.

A good place to start would be VvV Mave & Shield glasses, VvV Crimson Cincture as that would be your 140 Dex done, and if you have Warriors Gift that will be 140 Str too. You could use the Primer Of Arms Talisman too if you don't want to use Soldier's Medal or Cameo's. Stone Boots for 4 Dex. Chest clothes slot for sashes/epaulettes can give either 5 DCI 1 Stam or 1 Mana, or 5 Int/2 MR/10 LRC. Robe slot can also be 5 DCI/ MR, or 3 HP/5 Int (HP Increase useful obviously as it takes Imbuing weight off of your armour) If you're going with Throwing I wouldn't care too much about DCI, but may end up with some anyway if you use the Stam piece.

With the resists, I can't remember exactly what the combination of everything gives, but bear in mind you can still be Corpse Skinned in Stone Form. Which I don't think you can still counter act. *I think* Stone Form gives +10 all caps, and +10 all resists, and Protection will give -15 Physical. So to be all 80's in Stone Form/Protection you would need 85/70/70/70/70 resists from your armour.

There are different ways of playing hybrids, you can play it more like a caster, or more like a dexxer. The advice here is for playing it more like a dexxer, so the need for mana is pretty low, in heat of battle you're going to be casting; Chivalry spells (obviously), Enchant (to give your weapon Spell Channel so it doesn't unequip and leave you defenseless when Summoning Colossus or casting other Mysticism spells, it comes with 60 Hit Spell too, if the thing your fighting counter attacks like Medusa, Stygian, Dark Fathers, Slasher etc, then set it to Hit Dispel to avoid the trigger - you can also use that for Dispelling Revenants if Dispel Evil from Chivalry is not an option - like when out of mana), refreshing your Healing Stone/Spell Trigger, Cleansing Wind if you need to Remove Curses, Mass Sleep (very useful on many boss encounters and hunts in general - you can effectively use it as 'Invis' - on things like Semidar it gives you enough time to summon another Colossus)... you can also use all of the other spells if you want to but they are limited in usefulness when playing on a Protection hybrid, you could play this just as; Summon Colossus and go dexxer mode.

For 55 LMC you need 5 Stone pieces on a Gargoyle, you can reforge these for 10 Stamina, and enhance them for extra resists. This is all very expensive and depending on what shard your on the availability of Granite (which can't be reused) for making all the right base resist pieces can be difficult, it gets more expensive and time consuming if you're reforging and don't get the property you want, and then more again if you enhance it with a Forged Metal tool. Whether you consider it worth going to all this effort is up to you and your own finances etc.

You can't combine Stone Form and Armour Refinement. Although you may think about using Armour Refinement for more resists when not in Stone Form, I'm 99% certain that it then prevents you from getting the higher resist increase in Stone Form as the armour will take precedent over the form. (Meaning you'll be in Stone Form with all 75's instead of all 80's.)

You can't enhance Gargish Stone Amulets for additional resist as they are jewellery (although the game still lets you do it - and subsequently waste expensive Forget Metal charges doing so.)

 

[Eärendil]

Fantastic! Thanks so much! Now I have some work ahead...

 

[CorwinXX]

Since you have Mysticism you needn't healing.

You need at least 100 Tactics.

If you are going to get one more skill then get 80 Bushido, but don't drop Tactics/Anatomy below 100.

 

[Eärendil]

One question: Enchant does only add hit spells as far as I can see. Does it automatically give SC? It does not appear on the list...

 

[Ru TnT]

One question: Enchant does only add hit spells as far as I can see. Does it automatically give SC? It does not appear on the list...

If your focus or imbuing is over 80, it'll add spell channeling and FC -1 as well as the hit spell you picked.

 

[Eärendil]

Thank you! Thats an important info!

 

[CorwinXX]

With an artifact thrower weapon it gives SC without FC penalty.

 

[Eärendil]

Hard to find, especially with the right slayers...

 

[Merlin]

Interesting thread. Good luck @Eärendil !

Making a hybrid caster / ranged fighter was going to be my next project and I was also leaning toward a Mystic Thrower.

Based on absolutely nothing, here is what I was looking at doing:

[xtable=107x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent|79x@}Throwing{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Tactics{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}110{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Mysticism{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Focus{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Meditation{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}50{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Chivalry{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}80{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Spellweaving{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent} {/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}720{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent} {/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

Theres a lot I hadn't thought about yet for the build (i.e., such as needing SC on my weapons) until reading this thread.

I had thought that with enough life leach on the weapon, plus healing abilities of Cleansing Winds, Healing Stone, Close Wounds, Gift of Renewal, Gift of Life... I would have enough to get by. My other pure thrower ([Throwing] - THROWING TEMPLATE HELP NEEDED) already has healing and anatomy, so I didn't want to duplicate that.

My other concern is the suit. The suit I bought for my other thrower was expensive to get all the right stone pieces, jewels, and what not to get the 55 LMC. I was thinking of trying to go more the route of finding pieces with good mana and stam bonuses, no matter what kind of piece. I'd probably want the suit to be medable as well.

I probably won't get to fully playing it until the spring/summer, but I was going to start planning and training for it now. Just some thought!

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

[xtable=skin1|107x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent|79x@}Throwing{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent|28x@}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Tactics{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}110{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Mysticism{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Focus{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Meditation{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}50{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Chivalry{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}80{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent}Spellweaving{/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}120{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent} {/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent}720{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=bcolor:transparent} {/td}
{td=bcolor:transparent} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

I had thought that with enough life leach on the weapon, plus healing abilities of Cleansing Winds, Healing Stone, Close Wounds, Gift of Renewal, Gift of Life... I would have enough to get by. My other pure thrower ([Throwing] - THROWING TEMPLATE HELP NEEDED) already has healing and anatomy, so I didn't want to duplicate that.

My other concern is the suit. The suit I bought for my other thrower was expensive to get all the right stone pieces, jewels, and what not to get the 55 LMC. I was thinking of trying to go more the route of finding pieces with good mana and stam bonuses, no matter what kind of piece. I'd probably want the suit to be medable as well.

RE: 55 LMC. On my Throwing/wammy/sampire, that has 55 LMC and 210+ Stam, I don't think that suit was actually worth the effort for the result, and I wouldn't bother with it if it on a Mystic/Dexxer (his one) if it was a chore to get. However on your one with the Spellweaving I would bother with it. Which means going non-Med, but I think Med is a waste of points on the above template anyway, as you can HML. You could also go human/Archery to make it easier to get the 55 LMC, (I wouldn't play one out of principle at the moment because I don't like Archery) but Archery would be preferable in Doom with Yumi/Double Shot.

RE: Healing. I don't think you'd need to worry about bandages or HLL on a Mystic/Spellweaver as it is hugely defensive. I suggest it for his build because it is more dexxer based than caster based. I like to combine things that have good synergy; Stone Form - un-slowable/blockable bandages.

RE: Template. If you're going to go with the above I would build it more as a caster than a dexxer. A large draw of being on a Spellweaver is the dump at the end, when you hit Empowerment and WOD spam, can't really do that effectively in Protection or Stone Form... well you can but it isn't as good, and if you're competing with other Spellweavers their likely to beat you to the punch.

 

[Merlin]

RE: 55 LMC. On my Throwing/wammy/sampire, that has 55 LMC and 210+ Stam, I don't think that suit was actually worth the effort for the result, and I wouldn't bother with it if it on a Mystic/Dexxer (his one) if it was a chore to get. However on your one with the Spellweaving I would bother with it. Which means going non-Med, but I think Med is a waste of points on the above template anyway, as you can HML. You could also go human/Archery to make it easier to get the 55 LMC, (I wouldn't play one out of principle at the moment because I don't like Archery) but Archery would be preferable in Doom with Yumi/Double Shot.

RE: Healing. I don't think you'd need to worry about bandages or HLL on a Mystic/Spellweaver as it is hugely defensive. I suggest it for his build because it is more dexxer based than caster based. I like to combine things that have good synergy; Stone Form - un-slowable/blockable bandages.

RE: Template. If you're going to go with the above I would build it more as a caster than a dexxer. A large draw of being on a Spellweaver is the dump at the end, when you hit Empowerment and WOD spam, can't really do that effectively in Protection or Stone Form... well you can but it isn't as good, and if you're competing with other Spellweavers their likely to beat you to the punch.

Thanks for the reply.

In the event I have 55 LMC, high mana regen, hit mana leach on the weapon and the 120 focus... thinking through it now, it probably doesn't make sense to need that 50 points of Med on that template I proposed. With that said...what would you do with those other 50 skill points?

Assuming I am crafting/imbuing all of these weapons, I just to confirm that I would need Spell Channeling on the Soul Glaives. Is that correct?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

in the event I have 55 LMC, high mana regen, hit mana leach on the weapon and the 120 focus... thinking through it now, it probably doesn't make sense to need that 50 points of Med on that template I proposed. With that said...what would you do with those other 50 skill points?

Last question to clarify... in the event I am crafting/imbuing all of these weapons, I just to confirm that I would need Spell Channeling on the Soul Glaives. Is that correct?

I'd probably just 120 Tactics and Chivalry.

No. You can use Enchant. At 120 Myst/Focus Enchant will give SC-1 and 60 Hit Spell of your choice. There are no artifact Throwing weapons worth using. But you may chose to Imbue 1 FC on the Glaives to counter the negative if you're going to try to stay at 2 or 4 FC.

 

[Felipovisk]

120 Weapon
90 Tactics
90 Healing
90 Anatomy
120 Mysticism
120 Focus
90 Chivalry

You want 120 real skill in anything you intend to use the Mastery for. You want 120 weapon skill after items even if you're not using the Mastery as it is both your hit and defense. You want 120 Mysticism/Focus after items even if you're not using the Mastery because it affects the benefits and protection of Stone Form among other spells. Most of the other skills can fluctuate depending on how much you're using them, and availability/viability of skill increase items. For example if you're using Solider's Medal that's an extra 10 Tactics. You could have Heal/Anat as low as 80 and use the points to get Tactics or Chivalry to 120. Tactics can go as low as 60 for using specials.

The first thing to do with the suit is figure out what you can realistically achieve for Stam/SSI, depending on how much you intend to play in Stone Form (personally I'd be in it most of the time when fighting) you need to factor in the SSI penalty which *I think* is -10. Although you can't be cursed in Stone Form to lose Stamina you still lose it by taking damage so may want 10 or so more than you need. It works in thresholds of 30, and as you would want at least 140 Dex anyway for your bandage speed, your Stamina could be 150 (160 with a buffer for damage), 180 (190 with buffer), or 210 (unlikely to be viable with the need for LRC on suit). You also really want your Str to be high so that you have maximum range with your Soul Glaive if you're still going Throwing. You need to factor in these stat increases (unless you're just going to use potions constantly) early on as it'll in part determine what Imbuing slots you have left for things like HCI/DI/skill increase on your jewellery. On the armour you want to factor in Stamina Increase, LRC, LMC, resists, HP Increase, Mana Increase.

A good place to start would be VvV Mave & Shield glasses, VvV Crimson Cincture as that would be your 140 Dex done, and if you have Warriors Gift that will be 140 Str too. You could use the Primer Of Arms Talisman too if you don't want to use Soldier's Medal or Cameo's. Stone Boots for 4 Dex. Chest clothes slot for sashes/epaulettes can give either 5 DCI 1 Stam or 1 Mana, or 5 Int/2 MR/10 LRC. Robe slot can also be 5 DCI/ MR, or 3 HP/5 Int (HP Increase useful obviously as it takes Imbuing weight off of your armour) If you're going with Throwing I wouldn't care too much about DCI, but may end up with some anyway if you use the Stam piece.

With the resists, I can't remember exactly what the combination of everything gives, but bear in mind you can still be Corpse Skinned in Stone Form. Which I don't think you can still counter act. *I think* Stone Form gives +10 all caps, and +10 all resists, and Protection will give -15 Physical. So to be all 80's in Stone Form/Protection you would need 85/70/70/70/70 resists from your armour.

There are different ways of playing hybrids, you can play it more like a caster, or more like a dexxer. The advice here is for playing it more like a dexxer, so the need for mana is pretty low, in heat of battle you're going to be casting; Chivalry spells (obviously), Enchant (to give your weapon Spell Channel so it doesn't unequip and leave you defenseless when Summoning Colossus or casting other Mysticism spells, it comes with 60 Hit Spell too, if the thing your fighting counter attacks like Medusa, Stygian, Dark Fathers, Slasher etc, then set it to Hit Dispel to avoid the trigger - you can also use that for Dispelling Revenants if Dispel Evil from Chivalry is not an option - like when out of mana), refreshing your Healing Stone/Spell Trigger, Cleansing Wind if you need to Remove Curses, Mass Sleep (very useful on many boss encounters and hunts in general - you can effectively use it as 'Invis' - on things like Semidar it gives you enough time to summon another Colossus)... you can also use all of the other spells if you want to but they are limited in usefulness when playing on a Protection hybrid, you could play this just as; Summon Colossus and go dexxer mode.

For 55 LMC you need 5 Stone pieces on a Gargoyle, you can reforge these for 10 Stamina, and enhance them for extra resists. This is all very expensive and depending on what shard your on the availability of Granite (which can't be reused) for making all the right base resist pieces can be difficult, it gets more expensive and time consuming if you're reforging and don't get the property you want, and then more again if you enhance it with a Forged Metal tool. Whether you consider it worth going to all this effort is up to you and your own finances etc.

You can't combine Stone Form and Armour Refinement. Although you may think about using Armour Refinement for more resists when not in Stone Form, I'm 99% certain that it then prevents you from getting the higher resist increase in Stone Form as the armour will take precedent over the form. (Meaning you'll be in Stone Form with all 75's instead of all 80's.)

You can't enhance Gargish Stone Amulets for additional resist as they are jewellery (although the game still lets you do it - and subsequently waste expensive Forget Metal charges doing so.)

I got pretty interested in this template, been a while i am thinking in changing my thrower to a mystic dexxer.
The question i got is, how this temple goes without parrying? i know stone form increase resist caps and resists, but it is enough to forego parrying at all?

I apprecciate anyone that got experience with this template could share any toughts.

 

[Merlin]

I got pretty interested in this template, been a while i am thinking in changing my thrower to a mystic dexxer.
The question i got is, how this temple goes without parrying? i know stone form increase resist caps and resists, but it is enough to forego parrying at all?

I apprecciate anyone that got experience with this template could share any toughts.

The tough part about a Mystic Dexxer is that you usually have to decide if you're going to be more of a Dexxer with Mysticism, or are you going to be a Mystic with a Dex skill. In other words, it's tough to be good at both and really Excel, so my first suggestion would be for you to focus on one or the other.

What weapon skill are you going to use that you would consider Parrying? If you're doing something ranged, like a Thrower, then I would say it's probably a waste. Also, consider that if you have Close Wounds from Chivalry, plus Cleansing Winds for Mysticism, AND bandages from Healing... you're going to have alot of ways to keep yourself healed up and alive. If you're casting RC's to fight behind, they will be taking most of the brunt for you and you won't need any Parry on the toon.

 

[Felipovisk]

The tough part about a Mystic Dexxer is that you usually have to decide if you're going to be more of a Dexxer with Mysticism, or are you going to be a Mystic with a Dex skill. In other words, it's tough to be good at both and really Excel, so my first suggestion would be for you to focus on one or the other.

What weapon skill are you going to use that you would consider Parrying? If you're doing something ranged, like a Thrower, then I would say it's probably a waste. Also, consider that if you have Close Wounds from Chivalry, plus Cleansing Winds for Mysticism, AND bandages from Healing... you're going to have alot of ways to keep yourself healed up and alive. If you're casting RC's to fight behind, they will be taking most of the brunt for you and you won't need any Parry on the toon.

The idea would be more of a mace dexxer mystic. i was even thinking forego the LRC on the suit, since i have a full stone suit with 212 stam from my thrower. I always tought that i was going to be tanking, not the RC. But as you said i can play the way the RC would be tanking, and yeah i have lot of ways to heal, but also even with 45dci and without parry it would be an easy target. My idea behind this was to make a dexxer to play like the old dexxers where youwould be xhealing and such. The mystic dexxer sound pretty beefy with the stone form, lifestone and healing, But it seemed not sobeefy when i realized that it dont have parry.

Maybe if i want an old dexxer idea, the paladin would be my best bet, where i could fit mace, parry, healing and maybe even resists...and keep my thrower as it is now. A necro bush chiv thrower

 

[Merlin]

The idea would be more of a mace dexxer mystic. i was even thinking forego the LRC on the suit, since i have a full stone suit with 212 stam from my thrower. I always tought that i was going to be tanking, not the RC. But as you said i can play the way the RC would be tanking, and yeah i have lot of ways to heal, but also even with 45dci and without parry it would be an easy target. My idea behind this was to make a dexxer to play like the old dexxers where youwould be xhealing and such. The mystic dexxer sound pretty beefy with the stone form, lifestone and healing, But it seemed not sobeefy when i realized that it dont have parry.

Maybe if i want an old dexxer idea, the paladin would be my best bet, where i could fit mace, parry, healing and maybe even resists...and keep my thrower as it is now. A necro bush chiv thrower

If you want the Parry, maybe test out using Parry instead of Anat or Chiv. See if that suits you better. You would lose some offense but gain defense.

I never found Vamp form from Necro to be very effective on Throwers or Archers. You leach back much less life. And if you're going to have Bush and Chiv, you will have the Confidence and Close Wound abilities to keep yourself alive. Just my opinion ofcourse, only way to know for sure is testing yourself.

 

[gwen]

There are no artifact Throwing weapons worth using.

Some can be used :
Blight of Tundra with right slayer
Bow of Infinite swarms (altered)
Less efficient: Halawa hunting bow (cyclone)