My take Cals big list and 3rd party aps, or what Mythic is doing about cheating

[AesSedai]

Personally, i dont really care about scripting. I have never noticed it negatively affect my gameplay in any way shape or form.

- Well I hate to point this out to ya', but it has affected you. The most obvious way it has at this point is likely inflation; although there are quite a few other ways that scripting (the cheating ways) has affected everyone involved with UO.

 

[AesSedai]

They need to fix duping. Nothing else affects the game in the least.

- And as a follow up to what I just wrote, all I have to say is:

Fail.

 

[hazrad]

- Well I hate to point this out to ya', but it has affected you. The most obvious way it has at this point is likely inflation; although there are quite a few other ways that scripting (the cheating ways) has affected everyone involved with UO.

I would argue that your statement is not 100% correct, maybe 95% correct but not 100%. There is a sub culture of UOer's that role play. And in their role playing groups/events they sometimes have set rules and guidelines for their role playing such as: "only vendor bought weapons allowed" or "mages can only wear cloth", etc. In essence, it's these types of players with these guidelines that can find enjoyment in their activity without concern of high tier items and high amounts of gold. They really are unaffected by the scriptors.

 

[AesSedai]

I would argue that your statement is not 100% correct, maybe 95% correct but not 100%. There is a sub culture of UOer's that role play. And in their role playing groups/events they sometimes have set rules and guidelines for their role playing such as: "only vendor bought weapons allowed" or "mages can only wear cloth", etc. In essence, it's these types of players with these guidelines that can find enjoyment in their activity without concern of high tier items and high amounts of gold. They really are unaffected by the scriptors.

- Sounds, sound; in that, I agree with you as long as any of the, perhaps as you suggest ~5%, devout UO roleplayers do not purchase any goods from another partici~player..

[Personally, I have not purchased anything from another character in about 5 years. Yet, I still continue to be negatively affected by cheating; for I am involved with UO.. That is unjust = true.]

 

[Llewen]

And the server doesnt have all the limits players think it has. I know of a very simple test to show you how much the client controls.

Here is what you need:
Classic client
KR client, or Enhanced client

Make a UOA macro to use thread on a loom to make cloth. Make it do a bunch of tries, like 20 in a row, without pauses. And see what happens. On your second try its gonna say "You Must Wait To Perform Another Action" This is not a server side limit. Its a client limit.

Now in Ehanced Client, make a macro to use thread on a loom. And bind it to a key. Mash that key as fast as you can over and over. I have used this on KR, and id assume EC is the same. I cant hit the button fast enough. And I dont not get the error message.

So dont think the server limits speed, it doesnt. The client does, it will only allow so many movements to be sent out in packets. Edit the data stream, and you move faster.

There is a difference between the limits placed on actions, and the limits placed on movement. I think there was a cap placed server side on movement rates several years ago (something like three to five years ago now). I remember the devs talking about it.

But I think you are right about the rest of it. I expect if you know what you are doing you can remove cool downs and speed up action times on just about anything. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the specific example you gave has been fixed.

 

[N49ATV]

Someone give it a try, i dont run enhanced client, or KR. But that a simple test for people who have it, without exploiting everything. I had KR when I had a crafter, since you could put in how much to make of things etc, and when making cloth, i could do it as fast as I wanted.

And speed hack still works. There was a group on my shard that used it. Several people with low pings would be left behind in a matter of a couple screens. I dont see a 40 ping being left behind by a 35 ping.

 

[hazrad]

Someone give it a try, i dont run enhanced client, or KR. But that a simple test for people who have it, without exploiting everything. I had KR when I had a crafter, since you could put in how much to make of things etc, and when making cloth, i could do it as fast as I wanted.

And speed hack still works. There was a group on my shard that used it. Several people with low pings would be left behind in a matter of a couple screens. I dont see a 40 ping being left behind by a 35 ping.

My curiosity is has peeked... I will verify both the EC vs CC crafting speeds and speedhacking tonight. I'm such an empiricist anyway, it will be fun to test.

 

[Hurley]

I felt that he was above the FC/FCR limits from my experience of dueling many other mages. I'm sure you know that Mage dueling has a strong sense of feel to it. I felt it. You can always feel someones Fc/Fcr. I mage dueled very often against all kinds of players. And quite a few of them immensely better than me. I could feel the flow, the timing of their casts against my casts. Every duel I had felt natural to me except this one. I lost many more than I won but they all felt natural. With this one particular guy I can feel the person casting incredibly fast. Way faster than the top mage duelers on the shard that I dared go toe to toe with.

I'm speculating that it's an exploit because the best mage duelers on the shard could not cast as fast as this guy with maxed out FC/FCR. If it's not an exploit, it truly is magic.

I was on Legends in 2006. PM me who it was and I'll set you straight

 

[Hurley]

- Well I hate to point this out to ya', but it has affected you. The most obvious way it has at this point is likely inflation; although there are quite a few other ways that scripting (the cheating ways) has affected everyone involved with UO.

DUPING not SCRIPTING was and is still responsible for the HUGE drop in the RL price of gold, which in turn led to inflation in game.

 

[Hurley]

Someone give it a try, i dont run enhanced client, or KR. But that a simple test for people who have it, without exploiting everything. I had KR when I had a crafter, since you could put in how much to make of things etc, and when making cloth, i could do it as fast as I wanted.

And speed hack still works. There was a group on my shard that used it. Several people with low pings would be left behind in a matter of a couple screens. I dont see a 40 ping being left behind by a 35 ping.

I heard that you were using the Enhanced Client gargoyle/crystal pedestal hack.
Oh, waittttt... I have no proof of that, but I think so, so that makes it Truth.

 

[Llewen]

And speed hack still works. There was a group on my shard that used it. Several people with low pings would be left behind in a matter of a couple screens. I dont see a 40 ping being left behind by a 35 ping.

I ping between 50 and 70, and I can lose absolutely anyone on my shard. And there are guilds that pvp that if there is a useful cheat, you can pretty much guarantee they will be using it. The only time I've been caught when I didn't want to in the past three or four months now has been one of the few times I've had problems with lag and an archer ran me down with running shot.

And I don't use speed hacks of any kind, and never have. I've never even downloaded one.

 

[Yalp]

Cal sure comes off as a stand-up guy but the lack of action proves otherwise.

/agreed... No reason they can't move on the players they have a database spreadsheet on... maybe they need to catch them in the act.. but come to think of it, our shards notorious cheating guild hasn't been seen much lately.. perhaps?.. *drifts off into wishful thinking*

 

[hazrad]

/agreed... No reason they can't move on the players they have a database spreadsheet on... maybe they need to catch them in the act.. but come to think of it, our shards notorious cheating guild hasn't been seen much lately.. perhaps?.. *drifts off into wishful thinking*

Are you sure they are cheating? Because they might all be really really really good at UO. So good that it makes all of us that suck think they cheat.

 

[Yalp]

Are you sure they are cheating? Because they might all be really really really good at UO. So good that it makes all of us that suck think they cheat.

yeah.. that's it.. they are all REALLY REALLY SUPER DUPER x INFINITY good!

 

[Hurley]

I created H8 w/ Hacker and some others and we got accused of cheating EVERY SINGLE day we were on Baja.

But the fact was: We were really really really good at UO. So good that it made all of you that suck think we cheated.

That was one of the worst shards ever for accusations.

 

[hazrad]

I created H8 w/ Hacker and some others and we got accused of cheating EVERY SINGLE day we were on Baja.

But the fact was: We were really really really good at UO. So good that it made all of you that suck think we cheated.

That was one of the worst shards ever for accusations.

No... seriously now, are you talking about Hacker, Golrath's brother? Do you know who I am talking about? This dude's brother? YTMND - Hax is owned by UO

 

[Sevin0oo0]

inflation?? That one designer said 3 months after the start of UO, gold sold for $1 per 100gp and stayed that way until he left. Wow, what a change, now its 0.99 per mil

 

[Allicio]

Lets try this again...it is not illegal to buy gold or items in UO for RL money, its one of the only MMOs where this is the case.[/b]

i think that you better check out your facts before posting something like this, As speaking from experience i have had an account suspended for trying to sell an item for real cash and in the e-mail sent to me from CS it stated that it was illegal to do this as it interferes with others gameplay experiences, So i for 1 first hand know for a fact that it not legal to sell things in uo for real cash

 

[longshanks]

Well im going to give my opinion now.

Personally, i dont really care about scripting. I have never noticed it negatively affect my gameplay in any way shape or form.

So what if someone wants to script bods and flood the market with high end runics? Thy get rich, i get runics.

So what if someone wants to script farm gold? I still have my gold.

So what if someone wants to script resources? They make money, i get ingots/wood.

So what if someone wants to script skills? Its one more person in game that much faster.

What does affect me and what i do not like is cheating.

By cheating i mean Duping, client modifications + Speed enhancement.

Client mods are just ridiculous, im not too fussed about them seeing tiles differently, or even bolas brighter. What does annoy me is when these players can set traps with bag balls, candelabras etc because they just walk right over them!

Speed enhancement is just plain annoying!

Duping could be placed in the same category as scripting but the difference to me is that duping is actually making something out of nothing. No "work" has gone into it.

What i would like to be seen to happen is that one of these individuals doing either of the above, is frozen in the middle of a fight (Yew Gate for example) Or Luna. One of the devs or whoever appears, puts a cage around them explains whats happening and blows there account up!

All chars, all items everything!

Dont actually ban the account...just strip it!

Well, you cant get just a little bit pregnant.

I agree as far as the skill gains go. Macroing should be allowed here. Hell its a 13 year old game. Get people in faster.

i disagree with the resource gathering. Bots gathering resources totally kills the game for people that want to play that style legitimately. Someone who wants to chop a few trees at nite can never compete with mr. 24-7 miner.

so if in the end resource prices go up, how is this a bad thing?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Agreed, what longshanks said. Others have expressed similar views, I feel the same.

Seems there has to be some other type of penalty they could impose besides a ban (banning seems a little extreme to me), something(s) in-game maybe, keep them in the game, and deterred at same time.
A lot of people suspect free trial accounts, incl accts. that have been using game time codes, which is what I'd use if I was a gonna cheat.
You can't get a free acct, and instantly be gm mining, then start scripting, it takes a while, maybe it should take longer? Some will complain about that, but I did music in 1hr using uoa macros, wtf ?
Certainly they have compiled what % of those get banned, and the reason?

 

[UOKaiser]

i think that you better check out your facts before posting something like this, As speaking from experience i have had an account suspended for trying to sell an item for real cash and in the e-mail sent to me from CS it stated that it was illegal to do this as it interferes with others gameplay experiences, So i for 1 first hand know for a fact that it not legal to sell things in uo for real cash

You can't advertise in game anything that generates buiseness from computer sales to cookie sales including gold selling. But outside of game you can do whatever you pleased. This is where the legal and illegal part comes in. Which is actually meant as allowed and not allowed. There is no law in most contries about it.

 

[UOKaiser]

Well, you cant get just a little bit pregnant.

I agree as far as the skill gains go. Macroing should be allowed here. Hell its a 13 year old game. Get people in faster.

i disagree with the resource gathering. Bots gathering resources totally kills the game for people that want to play that style legitimately. Someone who wants to chop a few trees at nite can never compete with mr. 24-7 miner.

so if in the end resource prices go up, how is this a bad thing?

There is nothing illegal about macroing. It's in Kr it's in uoassist it's in the regular client its in game keyboards and mouse programs. What you looking for is unattended macroing is the part that's not allowed. At first is because the servers couldn't take people log in all day now it's just part of the system.

 

[Macrophage]

Well, you cant get just a little bit pregnant.

I agree as far as the skill gains go. Macroing should be allowed here. Hell its a 13 year old game. Get people in faster.

i disagree with the resource gathering. Bots gathering resources totally kills the game for people that want to play that style legitimately. Someone who wants to chop a few trees at nite can never compete with mr. 24-7 miner.

so if in the end resource prices go up, how is this a bad thing?

If prices were going any higher, people would just mine/chop by themselves. Prices are already insanely high, and there is absolutely no resources on the market. I ve met a new player who started with mining and he was making 4 million a day through mining. You can't tell script mining badly affects the economy. It's simply impossible for active miners to fulfill a whole server's need. About bod scripting, well, you need to run a factory of several accounts 24/24 to get any quality hammer. The market has not been flooded through scripting, it has been through duping... [but I think high end runics like verite and valorite have been set way too low and imbuieng arrived way too late, I know many players who left because of the randomnness of getting good items].

Scripting never killed the economy it actually helped it by filling the blatant gaps this game had created through its flaws. (Gold scripting doesnt fall in that category, but has not been dealt with the right way - aka stupid dread spider or swoop bumps). Duping really hurt it bad though -

 

[ElRay]

I'm afraid I'm with you. It's pretty clear to me that the devs and cs are doing nothing about cheating. I can tell based on what I see in game and conversations in vent that cheating is just as common as it ever has been. No one is worried about the third party app detection, and they probably don't have any reason to be.

I've fought pretty hard on these boards to keep this issue front and centre, but it's obvious to me now that I've lost that war, and I was wasting my time.

Anyone whose stance is against cheating in UO is wasting their time.

Nothing will be done about it ever. EVER.

Why would they? Especially at this point in time for this game.

Once again, nothing will EVER be done about cheating, thank you.

 

[N49ATV]

You can only claim low ping so much. No one on the shard could catch this pertiuclar group of people. No one. And there are some damn low pings. Some have claimed to have single digit pings, but alas I cant verify that.

And speed hack still works. There was a group on my shard that used it. Several people with low pings would be left behind in a matter of a couple screens. I dont see a 40 ping being left behind by a 35 ping.

I ping between 50 and 70, and I can lose absolutely anyone on my shard. And there are guilds that pvp that if there is a useful cheat, you can pretty much guarantee they will be using it. The only time I've been caught when I didn't want to in the past three or four months now has been one of the few times I've had problems with lag and an archer ran me down with running shot.

And I don't use speed hacks of any kind, and never have. I've never even downloaded one.

I have used it in the past, and it had nothing to do with lag. I used it way back in the day on baja, before I was banned for being a member of AC. I also used it on oceania, since I lived in western canada, my ping was huge there. But a friend who got me into UO played there, so thats where i went to learn.

 

[Llewen]

I'm afraid I'm with you. It's pretty clear to me that the devs and cs are doing nothing about cheating. I can tell based on what I see in game and conversations in vent that cheating is just as common as it ever has been. No one is worried about the third party app detection, and they probably don't have any reason to be.

I've fought pretty hard on these boards to keep this issue front and centre, but it's obvious to me now that I've lost that war, and I was wasting my time.

Anyone whose stance is against cheating in UO is wasting their time.

Nothing will be done about it ever. EVER.

Why would they? Especially at this point in time for this game.

Once again, nothing will EVER be done about cheating, thank you.

You know what I want? I want to log into a pvp guild's vent, and hear some returning player mention some cheat that used to be popular, and have someone else tell him that he'd better not use that s**t or he'll probably lose his account.

That's what I want. And you are right, that's never going to happen...

 

[Myna]

Anyone whose stance is against cheating in UO is wasting their time.

Nothing will be done about it ever. EVER.

Why would they? Especially at this point in time for this game.

Once again, nothing will EVER be done about cheating, thank you.

ey its not true .... they collect datas about cheaters atm, so i am sure when they are done collecting datas in 10 years they will do nasty things with cheaters (no, not banning) ... but maybe they need 20 years