my packy's dead and there's no tamer in sight

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>



What were the objections to either res-deeds or an NPC?

[/ QUOTE ]I suppose it's the same sort of objection you have against making a friend in the game who can res a pet for you.

 

[Fluffi]

I am currently ingame, flitting between WBB and Luna - the most populous areas on Europa. It is now 10.30pm, so I guess that could be considered peak-time.

There aren't any tamers at either location, so I wouldn't have the option of making a friend if I had a dead pet. edited for scrupulous honesty - there aren't any attended tamers.

If you care to ensure that there is always a player tamer ingame, and attended, at some designated location, at all hours of the day, then I'll happily make friends with people - just like I do on the odd occasions when I banksit with my tamer.

 

[Guest]

The trick is to make many friends before your pet dies. Perhaps even ones that play at various times of the day.
This is all besides the fact that you can always release the pet and buy another one...

 

[Guest]

There's a beetle store?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

I am currently ingame, flitting between WBB and Luna - the most populous areas on Europa. It is now 10.30pm, so I guess that could be considered peak-time.

There aren't any tamers at either location, so I wouldn't have the option of making a friend if I had a dead pet. edited for scrupulous honesty - there aren't any attended tamers.

If you care to ensure that there is always a player tamer ingame, and attended, at some designated location, at all hours of the day, then I'll happily make friends with people - just like I do on the odd occasions when I banksit with my tamer.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this template your flitting about on ...
care to show how critical it is that the game is changed to adapt to you?
via Npc/Deeds ... ???

just saying ...

super mule crafter ?
Non ethy PvP hybrid? (guessing swampy most critical to maintain the template)

could be, tis possible ... your just truely "unpopular"

just saying ... err, asking
what's this helpless template?

 

[Fluffi]

I'd like to think that I have plenty of friends in UO.

What would you suggest I do if I happen to be playing at 3am - spam my ICQ list to see if someone is ingame, and prepared to drop whatever it is that they are doing, login with their tamer, and meet me somewhere?
And if they all happen to be in bed?

Of course, I could just logout (and hope that I didn't get hit with a "dead pet not stabling properly" bug), and play another character...

... Just as you could logout your character when their armour gets a bit battered, and play another character until you are able to find one of your crafter friends ingame.


Why would I want to release my 90+ combat skills albino squirrel just because my mage missed a heal and the poor little fellow died? Not all non-tamer pets are throwaway mounts.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>




Why would I want to release my 90+ combat skills albino squirrel just because my mage missed a heal and the poor little fellow died? Not all non-tamer pets are throwaway mounts.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the pet is that important to you you will either
A) Do as I said earlier and have a diverse group of friends so that there's someone on at the time you are. (Really not that hard to make friends in UO. Not everyone just sits at the bank and waits to res peoples pets though)

B) Be more careful with your pet during hours when you have no friends.

C) put enough vet/lore on the pet's parent character so that you don't need to rely on making friends.

That's the good part about UO see, there's different choices.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

There's a beetle store?

[/ QUOTE ]
*refers to post above*

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

And this template your flitting about on ...
care to show how critical it is that the game is changed to adapt to you?
via Npc/Deeds ... ???

just saying ...

super mule crafter ?
Non ethy PvP hybrid? (guessing swampy most critical to maintain the template)

could be, tis possible ... your just truely "unpopular"

just saying ... err, asking
what's this helpless template?

[/ QUOTE ]


The template I am talking about would be the legndary mage with a combat squirrel. (you didn't see that one coming did you

)


I don't think I am asking to have the game changed to adapt to me; I would prefer to say that I would like the same options for ressing my pet as I have for ressing myself, (with the proviso that this only applies to non-tamer pets).

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>


If the pet is that important to you you will either

A) Do as I said earlier and have a diverse group of friends so that there's someone on at the time you are. (Really not that hard to make friends in UO. Not everyone just sits at the bank and waits to res peoples pets though)

Of course, I should have to rely on friends to ressurrect my pet, when you are able to get yourself ressed by an NPC.


B) Be more careful with your pet during hours when you have no friends.

Do you change your playstyle if you are ingame at odd hours, and your friends aren't available? Of course not; you only need to find a wandering healer.


C) put enough vet/lore on the pet's parent character so that you don't need to rely on making friends.

Unless you have enough tailor/smith skill on each of your characters so that they can repair their own kit, you have negated your own argument.
I'm sure you won't post anything about apples and oranges, as it was you who first added the comparison of getting equipment repairs to this discussion.

That's the good part about UO see, there's different choices.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

There's a beetle store?

[/ QUOTE ]
*refers to post above*

[/ QUOTE ]
I notice your answer has changed.

edit: *notices that I'm starting to get needlessly snarky*

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Actually ... I did ...
Thanks for making my point ...

Hardly a "good argument" to change the pet rez system, for a one off template like that ...
One that JUST refuses to adapt to the environment ...
insists, instead, that the environment adapt to them ...

PLENTY of room on that template for the required, current, skills to give your pet a rez ...

<blockquote><hr>

I don't think I am asking to have the game changed to adapt to me; I would prefer to say that I would like the same options for ressing my pet as I have for ressing myself, (with the proviso that this only applies to non-tamer pets).

[/ QUOTE ]

"thinking" is where you need " a bit more work"(you ARE asking the game to adapt to your preference ... prefering to NOT admit it ... is what is keeping you out there on the fringe) ..

LoL same options ...

what we need here.... is the SAME option ... for the pet ... to page on you ... or at least get you killed repeatedly ... till you ... ummmm ... gain some more int.

 

[Basara]

RTLFC:

You know folks, there IS a middle ground here.

Simply put, have a 3600 second timer on a dead pet. This timer will reset to 3600 seconds if the character logs out while the timer is running.

While the timer is running, it takes a player character Vet to rez the pet.

After the timer runs out, then the person can get the Britain Vet NPC to rez the pet for them for a nominal fee. The fee should be 100 times 10(^control slots), divided by 10 if a ridable pet.

in other words
1 slot Pet: 1,000 gold for normal pets, 100 for mounts
2 slot pet: 10,000 gold for normal pets, 1,000 for mounts
3 slot pet: 100,000 gold for normal pets, 10,000 for mounts
4 slot pet: 1 million gold for normal pets, 100,000 for mounts
5 slot pet: 10 million gold for normal pets, 1 million for mounts

That keeps it within reason for mounts, while encouraging people to actually HAVE Vet skill for big pets. AND, the timer makes it MUCH easier to find another player to rez, than use the NPC as a crutch.

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

Actually ... I did ...
Thanks for making my point ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Silly me; I thought that when you asked a question it was with the intention of filling a gap in your knowledge, rather than an exercise in demonstrating your mastery of italics, capitals, and ellipses.

<blockquote><hr>


"thinking" is where you need " a bit more work"(you ARE asking the game to adapt to your preference ... prefering to NOT admit it ... is what is keeping you out there on the fringe) ..

LoL same options ...

what we need here.... is the SAME option ... for the pet ... to page on you ... or at least get you killed repeatedly ... till you ... ummmm ... gain some more int.

[/ QUOTE ]


How about you abandon your normal abstuse style, and tell me exactly what is wrong with wanting the ability to ressurrect my pet in the same way as you or I can ressurrect?

Please use only simple words, and a grammatical structure that us out on the intellectual fringe will be able to comprehend.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

math ... in the hall

hhehehehehehhhhhhhh *cough*

Little more timer ... higher "start" gp ... tamer gets the gp for the rez ...(could give it back ... eh?) ... no "discounts" (a rez is a rez is a rez)(?? more for older accounts ??)
hmmm ... work in a "full on" passive gold drain ... for when a live tamer does the rez ...(avoid any exploit type "faucets")

yeah ...

Nice "middle ground" find there Basara

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>


in other words
1 slot Pet: 1,000 gold for normal pets, 100 for mounts
2 slot pet: 10,000 gold for normal pets, 1,000 for mounts
3 slot pet: 100,000 gold for normal pets, 10,000 for mounts
4 slot pet: 1 million gold for normal pets, 100,000 for mounts
5 slot pet: 10 million gold for normal pets, 1 million for mounts

[/ QUOTE ]

Anything which requires taming skill to own/control should only be ressurrectable by a player; they are, after-all tamer pets.

No-skill pets like low-end mounts, packies, beetles, and any of the "novelty" animals should not require a tamer to ressurrect. They are not tamer pets. Many of this class of pet appear to have been introduced to the game "just for fun", and players have adapted other low-end tamables for amusement. There is nothing amusing about spending time roaming around looking for a player to res a pet.


<blockquote><hr>

AND, the timer makes it MUCH easier to find another player to rez, than use the NPC as a crutch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you use NPC healers as a "crutch"? Or do you always either self-res, or find another player?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

There's a beetle store?

[/ QUOTE ]
*refers to post above*

[/ QUOTE ]
I notice your answer has changed.

edit: *notices that I'm starting to get needlessly snarky*

[/ QUOTE ]

No I didn't snarky one. That above reference was for those important pets that cannot easily be replaced by purchase from an NPC.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Unless you have enough tailor/smith skill on each of your characters so that they can repair their own kit, you have negated your own argument.
I'm sure you won't post anything about apples and oranges, as it was you who first added the comparison of getting equipment repairs to this discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

I do all of my own repairs so it's not really necessary. My point was about getting NPCs to repair your items = getting NPCs to res your pets, not whatever strange twist you are trying to put on it.
Pets are equal to items. Items are not Equal to Player Characters. Therefore, Player characters are not equal to Pets.
The apples and oranges thing is for PCs vs NPCs(aka Pets). Getting your pet ressed is a whole different ballgame than getting your character ressed. You seem to have trouble grasping that so there's really no point in continuing the discussion.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

I do all of my own repairs so it's not really necessary.

do all your own rezzing ...

Problem solved

(?? plain enough ??)

 

[Guest]

id like to see pet rez pots

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Unless you have enough tailor/smith skill on each of your characters so that they can repair their own kit, you have negated your own argument.
I'm sure you won't post anything about apples and oranges, as it was you who first added the comparison of getting equipment repairs to this discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

I do all of my own repairs so it's not really necessary. My point was about getting NPCs to repair your items = getting NPCs to res your pets, not whatever strange twist you are trying to put on it.
Pets are equal to items. Items are not Equal to Player Characters. Therefore, Player characters are not equal to Pets.
The apples and oranges thing is for PCs vs NPCs(aka Pets). Getting your pet ressed is a whole different ballgame than getting your character ressed. You seem to have trouble grasping that so there's really no point in continuing the discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]


I also do all my own repairs.

I dump stuff in a chest in the house, log the smith, repair the item, drop it back in the chest, login with the owner of the kit, and collect it from the chest.

As you believe that pets are items, I assume you would have no problem with me being able to drop my dead squirrel in a box in the house, log the tamer to res/heal the pet, put him back in the box, and then log the mage to collect him (without losing the bonding to the mage)


My reason for asking if you repaired your own kit was that you suggested I should fit Vet onto my mage template to res the squirrel. So, I'll ask again, do all of your characters have the necessary tailor/smith to do their own repairs?


I suppose you are correct about one thing; there's no real point in continuing this discussion.

The only arguments against either a ressing NPC or res deed have been:

1) You shouldn't have a pet if you can't heal it.
This can be countered with "you shouldn't use a kryss or wear armour if you can't repair them."

2) I don't think this is a good idea.
Which has no more logical weight than me thinking that it is a good idea.

3) It will lessen player interraction.
Only if there are actually tamers to be found within a reasonable timeframe. When there are no tamers, there is no scope for interraction.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I do all of my own repairs so it's not really necessary.

do all your own rezzing ...

Problem solved

(?? plain enough ??)

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not the one with the problem here...

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

I know ...

But you did present the easiest quickest fix ...

Should be simple enough for the problemed ones to work out ...

 

[Fluffi]

.... Same question I asked Flutter...

Do all your characters do all their own repairs?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

All my characters that need repairs ... can get their stuff repaired by my account characters ..
All my characters that do crafting ... can get their own supplies ... or have another character get them.
None of my characters need a system wide change ... to make their solo play easier ... more convenient.

Your one combat squirrel ...

Needs a better master ...
NOT a system change.

Yep ... IF I had to ... easy enough to boot the second account to rez a dead character ...
yeah ... I could do without the NPC's and auto rez shrines ... already "pre-adapted"

Remove bonding even ... yeah ... could arrange my templates to acquire replacement beasties ...
sufficiently to adapt to No More stable sales ...

I prefer to have pet rezzing done ... by one certain guild on home shard ...
if unavailable ...
any rez will do in a pinch ...
No rez's available?
tsk
Log out and change char's if I like

Whatever ...

as pointed out ... Npcs/deeds playing the part of PLAYERS ...
pretty well killed off the smiths at the forges ...
Maybe some system changes could ressurect them ...
long road with an uncertain future ... no matter how you go about that ...

No reason to expect a different outcome with Npc's/deeds re: Tamers.

Bear in mind ... the TOS? ...only thing in THERE about THIS?

"the game" is on an : "As Is, As Available" basis ...

Need to make plans on that basis ...

The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain
For promis'd joy.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

None of my characters need a system wide change ... to make their solo play easier ... more convenient.



[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Guest]

Replying to last, to avoid the clash of ideologies.

How about, you can get a "wandering veterinarian" to res a pet...
But
It costs 5 points in each of the pet's skills?

That way, a simple mount can be ressed easily, but a combat pet requires some special attention.

 

[Basara]

BTW: 3600 seconds is 1 hour. It's already used by some visable timers in game, so would be more easily implemented.

As for getting myself rezzed... Typically, I end up hoofing it back to a shrine because most places I hunt don't have wandering healers. Or, I yell for a friend. And, I DO try to keep knight of sacrifice &amp; compassion on my combat characters, to rez myself, and to heal others.

While I pretty much agree that tamers shouldn't be able to rez tamer-only pets in such a manner, there would be an outcry if the non-tamers got the option and tamers didn't. On the other hand, how many tamers you know willing to pony up 1 million per pet rez, and have to wait an hour to get it? It's to leave it available, but make it to where no legit tamer would use it, except in a dire emergency (or if they are a non-Advanced-character-token character, not yet to 80 vet - it which case they'd not have anything over 3 slots anyway).

The only "novelty" pet really subject to this for non-tamers would be Samurai with lesser Hiryus (and those that might be exploiting a loophole to have one without the requisite bushido to command it). If they are going to manipulate the ability to get such a pet, without tamer skills, they should have to pay for the priviledge of getting it rezzed.

The idea that one had for these suggested rates (or a percentage of them) to be paid to the tamer doing the healing has some merit, but I'd only have it apply to pet rez in a guard zone. After all, people do cross-heal pets in the field, and if they're doing that, then that's a player interaction that is working. Rezzing one's own pet in a guard zone would of course be free.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

yeah ...

"pay the Tamer for the rez" ... examined in that light ... yeah ... quash that now ...
karma boost maybe ... gp? nah ... (not that there are any ... but ... to prevent the "back in one hour" ... replies ... possiblities{like the ancient:"not now... power hour .." alibi excuse})

hehehehe
second "good one" out to Basara
*Bows deeply*

 

[WarUltima]

I know a lot of stealth ninja dismount tamers who use soulstones to swap vet skill in if there's no other "real tamers" on.

 

[Fluffi]

*snips into convenient bite-sized pieces*

<blockquote><hr>

All my characters that need repairs ... can get their stuff repaired by my account characters ..
All my characters that do crafting ... can get their own supplies ... or have another character get them.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a strawman argument.

You have failed to support the contention that I should have to train Vet on my mage in order to ressurrect my squirrel... Unless you are suggesting that I be able to leave the ghost at the house/log tamer/res pet/leave pet in house/log mage/collect pet?



<blockquote><hr>


None of my characters need a system wide change ... to make their solo play easier ... more convenient.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of anybodies characters needs changes to petballs, changes to runic crafting, increased stable slots, or PvP balances; yet these are changes which should be implemented as they would make the game more enjoyable for many people.
Would a single ressing NPC be any different?



<blockquote><hr>


Your one combat squirrel ...

Needs a better master ...
NOT a system change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same strawman... your sword needs a better owner if the current one is incapable of looking after it properly.



<blockquote><hr>

Yep ... IF I had to ... easy enough to boot the second account to rez a dead character ...
yeah ... I could do without the NPC's and auto rez shrines ... already "pre-adapted"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. I can do that too. However, only having one tamer means that all the non-tamer pets on my main account; (1 horse, 1 llama, 1 forest ostard, 2 swampies, 2 packies, 1 pink bunny, 1 blue beetle, 2 dogs, 1 imprisoned dog, 1 mongbat, and 1 squirrel), are reliant on third-party assistance. Of those non-tamer pets, the last six have been trained to a greater or lesser extent, and are not throwaways.



<blockquote><hr>

Remove bonding even ... yeah ... could arrange my templates to acquire replacement beasties ...

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing wrong with bonded pets on production shards; particularly when applied to "fun" pets owned by non-tamers.
I could also replace any of my pets - both tamer and otherwise, but as bonding isn't the topic of discussion here, I'll leave it at that.



<blockquote><hr>

sufficiently to adapt to No More stable sales ...

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem with that. Good God! We've agreed on something.



<blockquote><hr>

I prefer to have pet rezzing done ... by one certain guild on home shard ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.



<blockquote><hr>

if unavailable ...
any rez will do in a pinch ...
No rez's available?
tsk
Log out and change char's if I like

Whatever ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you feel the same about logging-out and swapping characters because the character was dead, and a res was unavailable?
I quite understand what the "M"s' in MMORPG mean, but when the second "M" isn't available, there really ought to be a fallback position.



<blockquote><hr>

as pointed out ... Npcs/deeds playing the part of PLAYERS ...
pretty well killed off the smiths at the forges ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Smiths at forges became unnecessary when every person trained their own crafter and had a secure way to transfer items between different characters.
You've said that you are able to do all your own repairs. YOU are responsible for killing-off the forge smiths... and so am I... and so is most of the population of UO.
(The inability to repair items in a trade window didn't help matters.)



<blockquote><hr>

Maybe some system changes could ressurect them ...
long road with an uncertain future ... no matter how you go about that ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so.
But are these changes needed or wanted?
If they are merely wanted, what criteria would you use to judge whether they should be implemented?



<blockquote><hr>

No reason to expect a different outcome with Npc's/deeds re: Tamers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Errrrr?
Are you suggesting that the tamer profession will collapse if no-skill-to-control pets are able to be ressurrected by an NPC?

That's nonsense, and you know it.



<blockquote><hr>


Bear in mind ... the TOS? ...only thing in THERE about THIS?

"the game" is on an : "As Is, As Available" basis ...

Need to make plans on that basis ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittedly, there is nothing in the TOS that says that EA will provide a ressurrection service for my dead pet, but does that mean that I shouldn't ask for such a service when there has not been a single valid argument against the idea?



<blockquote><hr>

The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain
For promis'd joy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh! You were doing so well.

Then you have to spoil it by quoting Burns. *sighs*

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

hardly a strawman fallacy ... It WOULD be simpler for you to adapt, Your template ...
Than change a game system ...

Thats self evident ...

and ... readily available to you through

Character template changes

soul stoning (full or fragment) one set of sufficient skills

a second account ... either on a seperate machine
or a quick switch via xp ...

Like I pointed out ...
your one combat squirrel mage template ...
plenty of room for reorganization ...
to "fit you into" the game
instead of
Fitting the game around you ...

True enough
You CAN ask ...
refusing to take a simple no ...
doesn't make you right.

*shrugs*

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

hardly a strawman fallacy ... It WOULD be simpler for you to adapt, Your template ...
Than change a game system ...

Thats self evident ...

and ... readily available to you through

Character template changes

soul stoning (full or fragment) one set of sufficient skills

a second account ... either on a seperate machine
or a quick switch via xp ...

Like I pointed out ...
your one combat squirrel mage template ...
plenty of room for reorganization ...
to "fit you into" the game
instead of
Fitting the game around you ...

True enough
You CAN ask ...
refusing to take a simple no ...
doesn't make you right.

*shrugs*

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, it was a fine example of a strawman argument

A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.


Flutter suggested that I need to train my mage in Vet in order to ressurrect my squirrel.
You supported that premise.
I responded by suggesting that by the same logic, your fencer should train Smithy in order to repair his kryss.
You completely avoided the crux of that suggestion, and waffled about your ability to repair items using another character.


************


I am quite able to ressurrect pets on my secondary accounts using my main-account tamer and either XP swapping or a second PC.
The problem occurrs when it is a pet on the tamers' account that needs a bit of help.


************


I could use soulstones to temporarily swap skills, but I consider that a (minor) abuse of game mechanics... like stoning Necromancy to cast Vamp form, and then immediately dropping it in favour of a combat skill.
There is a name for people who do that sort of thing.

You could always temporarily stone craft skills onto all of your non-crafting templates to do their repairs - would you be in favour of being forced to do that every time kit got a bit low on durability?


************


Of course, me asking for a change does not automatically make me right and the rest of the world wrong.
However, I have yet to see a reasoned argument against a non-timed NPC resser for no-skill pets. (The argument that the UHall oligarchy of Fayled and Flutter just don't like the idea isn't really enough of a rationalisation for dismissing the suggestion.)

 

[Calico Ann Bonny]

RTLFC

Why can a mage *heal* the pet with magery, in the same way that one might heal another player, but not *res* that same pet with that same magery skill?

I am also in favor of NPC veterinarians being able to perform such a service.

 

[UncleSham]

well well, i seem to have touched off quite the powder keg here .

ive read all your replies and the way i see this , the strongest argument against this is that this will kill the togetherness of our comunity like smithing deeds did .

well sorry i don't quite buy that . i never once charged anyone to res a pet and its not like you see groups of tamers hangin around the stable plying their trade and shootin the bull like smiths did.

annother suggestion has been to just drop the pet and get a new one . na. i dont like "disposable" pets . ive worked hard choosing the right swampy , equipping him with expensive armor and training him up to the point where he can defend himself a little.

annother suggestion is just to log out and play someone else . well ive heard the tales (happened to a friend of mine) im not sure exactly what the bug is , but he logged out in frustration one night and next day his pet was just gone.
(something about dead pets not stabling properly) now i have done it , but only if i have no choice and each time i wonder if ill see him again.

some of us dont have the luxury of having multiple accounts or computers . if i could just drop my swampy in a box and log in with my tamer there wouldn't be that issue , but i cant. so that argument doesn't wash iether.

how hard would it be ? i mean really. we could do the non tamers and newer players a nice service and generate a gold sink in the process . i just dont see the problem.

oh i allmost forgot this gem:
put enough vet and lore on your crafter to res his own pet.

oh man... like i have room for more skills on my crafter .

ive already had to drop fletching to make room for arms lore ...what else am i supposed to drop ?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

heres what i propose.

we should add a line added to the stablemasters menu :

"resurect pet"

[/ QUOTE ]This argument comes up pretty regularly.

I agree with you. Stablemasters should res pets. For a price or not, I don't care. Healers don't charge to res you do they? Usually you can find a tamer to res for you but quite often the bank is full of afk tamers. (or just unfriendly, no talking tamers?).

If the main argument against it is that it is one of the only forced player interactions then we do need to change it. Forced interaction is never a good thing. This game is a game of potentials. You can do pretty much anything, but if forced into it then it limits the potential too much.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>




Flutter suggested that I need to train my mage in Vet in order to ressurrect my squirrel.


[/ QUOTE ]Flutter suggested quite a few other alternatives that you chose to ignore in order to focus on this one.

 

[Guest]

I'm undecided about whether we should have a rezzing NPC or not.

I do know that I will be more aware of this when my tamers get the skills to ressurect pets. If I see any ghosties, I'll be sure to see if someone needs assistance. *smiles*

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'm not understanding why it would be such a big deal to have a way for non tamer pets to be rezzed without being at the mercy of whatever tamers happen to be online at the same time as you. I've had to wait as long as 2 hours before finding a tamer to rez a pet, and for warrior types the swampy is a part of their armor with the 20% damage reduction. Even when you have a backup in the stables, that backup can die as well, then you're basical SOL.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Like I said ... hardly a strawman fallacy on MY part, thanks for the wiki link for clarity ...
You say I didn't actually refute your arguement, but by the wiki extended definition, I did.

In a strawman fallacy ...(from the link) to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute.
Not the case.

You want the ability to rez a pet, the System, to be changed, to allow "non-vets" to rez none tamer pets ... yes?
Your reason being that "there are no tamers around 24/7" to provide a rez ... yes?
It is a known constraint of the entire "system" of character skills that there are limits to how many skills can be on a char (700-720 ...+ jewelry&amp; items)
Yes?

YOU ... would have a valid argument... IF there was "no room" on your non-tamer template to put the necessary skills to rez your non-tamer pet
Your "one combat squirrel Legendary mage" template

DOES have such room ... 120pnts to keep the Legendary Mage bit ... &amp; ... whatever points and jewelry necessary to rez the pet ... as a permanent "solution"(24/7) OR enough soulstones/fragments/jewelry for the occasional rezzing, as a "temporary (spot)" solution

Same, only more so, for super mule templates (as the OP proffered)

The only Template That may have had "good standing" is/was the PvP template that relies on a swampy .. as I allowed and suggested above (further non-strawman argument ...SM arguments don't provide/show their weakness

... I specifically asked for Template, your "concealing/omiting" of specifics ... puts YOUR argument as a true strawman defense ... gsm)

case of: PvP template that relies on a swampy. Also a "false argument" ... but not because of template skill room .... because of Lack of prevailing conditions WHEN that template is going to be used. Especially for a solo PvPer, know your gear/environment and limitations and plan accordingly.Plan against the "worst case scenario". what if, I run out of regs/pots/scrolls/ammunition/smokebombs/mana/hp/stam ... or I die and/or swampy dies ...

... in this case ... pretty easy to figure out ... tis a suicide run to NOT check on rez resources first ... cause ... lets face it ...pretty good chance that Player or the swampy IS gonna die ... once ... failure to allow for that REMAINS on the PvPer ... with the added pressure that, indeed, some OTHER player may have long term removal of the swampy rider "out of the fight" ... as his/her goal ...

MY "position" was (as identified) that the foundation OF the game, carries the TOS proviso of "As Is, As Available" ... and that the best way to proceed with that basis in mind ... the 7Ps of process (as opposed to the 7Ps of marketing ... which also apply, just harder to get the parallels clearly described).

ie. NO "strawman".

No, I did not imply/infer that "repair deeds" were the death of smiths ... PART of that, yes, but NOT solely responsible for ... again ... a strawman on your part ... not to mention a flat out Lie.. (YOU are responsible for killing-off the forge smiths) nay nay bucko ... thats a "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy on your part ... I didn't build MY smith until AFTER the smiths were no longer available ... Minor but key difference ... I was supporting and trading with them as long as they were available ... but ... my individual efforts were not sufficient to SAVE them ...

I also outlined a possible ressurection path FOR the smiths, which by the by, included either the removal OF deeds, or a nerfing of the same ... but, again ... not solely based ON "deeds".

The "parallel" between smiths and tamers ... still holds by the way ...FOR my side ... the difference that is to be avoided: presence of deeds(and/or npc's).

Okay ... hypothetically then ... say you get "the deeds" option activated ... what reason will be for the tamers TO remain available ?

Bear in mind, the existing conditions ... Which do you think -Currently- they're asked for MOST ? rez's or non-tamer pets?

Burma Shave

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The trick is to make many friends before your pet dies. Perhaps even ones that play at various times of the day.
This is all besides the fact that you can always release the pet and buy another one...

[/ QUOTE ]

So yeah, just run on, interrupt whatever your friend is doing to either get their tamer/log on their tamer to help rez your pet...And what a great friendsship based on "hey, I just keep you around so you can ress my pets" *rollseyes*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Pets are equal to items.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. Items can be put in a chest to be repaired by other characters you have. Pets on the other hand, cannot be put in a chest to be rezzed by one of your own chars.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

So yeah, just run on, interrupt whatever your friend is doing to either get their tamer/log on their tamer to help rez your pet...And what a great friendsship based on "hey, I just keep you around so you can ress my pets" *rollseyes*

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, to be fair, if you distill it down, aren't all friendships based on dependency of some sort? ( correct me if I'm wrong - I may be betraying a lack of experience in the whole subject of social interaction

)

 

[UncleSham]

not to seem rude with direct quotes . but i feel i must point out a few things.

"YOU ... would have a valid argument... IF there was "no room" on your non-tamer template to put the necessary skills to rez your non-tamer pet"

um , you are aware it takes both veterinary AND animal lore to res a pet dont you ? most of my templates are so jammed as it is, this simply isnt an option.

----------------------
"in this case ... pretty easy to figure out ... tis a suicide run to NOT check on rez resources first ... cause ... lets face it ...pretty good chance that Player or the swampy IS gonna die ... once ... failure to allow for that REMAINS on the PvPer ... with the added pressure that, indeed, some OTHER player may have long term removal of the swampy rider "out of the fight" ... as his/her goal ..."

last i checked swampy protection didnt apply to pvp . you want a lesser hy out of a fight ? ok, i could see that . perhapse on those we could include a 10 minuit wait while the pet undergoes "treatment" and you can come back and claim him when hes out of the recovery room.

------------------------
"MY "position" was (as identified) that the foundation OF the game, carries the TOS proviso of "As Is, As Available" ... and that the best way to proceed with that basis in mind"

one of the things i like most about uo is we actually have a chance to speak with the game gods and affect the world we play in.
many things have changed in this game . just because "thats the way it is" doesnt mean we cant try to improve uppon it.

-------------------------

"Okay ... hypothetically then ... say you get "the deeds" option activated ... what reason will be for the tamers TO remain available ?"

first of all im against deeds . i think the stablemaster should have a menu option . this creates a gold sink , and if your gonna add deeds most poeple would insist you be in a stable to use them , bringing me back to "if your going to be in the stable anyway you might as well go with my original idea" (quoting myself there)

seccondly ... um . the problem here is that they often ARENT available .

------------------------

and please , im sorry if i offend here . i dont mean to honestly . i ususally try to avoid direct quotes for that very reason . i felt these needed specific answers .

thank you for all the replies tho . everyones oppinion matters to me.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Why is there a Vet in Brit that is open 24/7 and does nothing??



[/ QUOTE ]

I see no one touch this line even with a ten foot pole, since the first day of bonding I have wonder why they never gave that NPC the gift to res your pets like the healers do when you die in game. A little song and dance, arms waving and some gold removed from your bank box to pay the vet since we all know any vet is not going to do it for free.

 

[Guest]

Actually, I've wondered this, too. Can you train Lore/Vet from the Vet NPC?

I've given it some more thought. I don't think that I would mind a Pet Rez NPC if it was limited to horses, llamas, packies, beetles, ostards, rabbits, etc. Non-Tamer pets, I guess is what we are referring to them as. Maybe limit the number of times you can use the service. Once a day or something.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

My mule template
Tactics 93.1(locked)various jewels available
Alchemy 100.0 (locked) various talismans/jewels available
Blacksmithy 80.0 (locked)various talismans/jewels available
Carpentry 100.0 (locked)various talismans/jewels available
Tailoring 75.0 (locked)various talismans/jewels available
Tinkering 100.0 (locked)various talismans/jewels available
Chivalry 35.9 (up)various jewels available
Magery 75.0 (locked)various talismans/jewels available
Muscianship 61.0 (locked)various talismans/jewels available
720 skills (4 year)

Pretty easy to see where I could put "real skill"(without jewels IF they wouldn't give the effect) ...on my mule ...
tactics and chiv instantly free up 129 pnts ... then I can CHOOSE whether to soulstone OR drop musicianship, tailoring, magery ...
Depending on CHOICE of long term "wants" ... re: rezing a none tamer pet ... In this characters instance .. a blue beetle ...
but since I Avoid Dying and/or getting the bonded bettle killed ...

I reserve the "contemplation" of skill juggling ... more towards whether or not to "max" the tailor and/or smith to 120 each (105 pnts out of an easy 129 ... 24pnts to play with) AND keep everything else the same (no vetting needed)

just saying ... pretty well DOES support my position that Template adaptations are possible first ... before deeds ...
likely your own tempale has room too ...
Not being willing to adapt your template ... does not create an urgency or need to adapt the game.
Crafter, PvP, PvM Templates dependent on non-tamer pets DO have options to BE self suffient ... without a SYSTEM change

Besides, back to the core of the "argument" ... deeds haven't been shown to be a "cure / fix" For the initial problem ..

lack of tamers ... when it suits individual characters ... aside from "local shard" population trends ... non-tamer pets "bonding" Could Be seen as a general "cause" of tamers in areas ... NOT being there ... and it is reasonable to project ... from the smith history ... that Deeds and/or npcs would be "The" killing blow ..
that is IF your argument prevails(deeds made available) ...npcs selling all non-tamer pets ... would "appear more necessary" IF the tamer population declines ... which IS likely ... waiting around for the odd sale of Bondable pets ...

just saying ... not a "growth plan"

Required Taming:
Fire beetle 93.9
Swamp Dragon 93.9
Giant(blue) beetle 29.1
Rideable Llama 29.1
ostards 29.1

Stable buyable
rabbits -18.9(their "minus" not mine)
cat -0.9
dog -21.3
horse 29.1
Pack horse 29.1
Pack llama 29.1


Just saying ...

My gatherer already has 85.4 lore and 61.0 taming (no vet) laid in IF tamers go the way of smiths ... Getting the non tamer pet transfered to the target character .. problematic but NOT impossible IF I'm the only player Left on the shard ...

(whole different set of "problems" &gt; than pet transfers) ...
But STILL without a "need" for a game system intervention to SAVE my template ...

Eh?

Now Basara's "middle ground" ... THAT is something that actually appears to be a pretty nifty idea ... has a "built in" gp drain ...won't make it easier to bypass a need for tamers to be around ... you'se guys get the ease of "known rez availablity" at the small cost of time and GP ... AND get to avoid juggling your templates around ...

Sticking with the smith parallel ... that middle ground would be like IF the dev's had fixed the trade interface ... and NOT added repair deeds ...
Leaving (hypothetical hindsight) Item decay for smiths and bonding for tamers as being the primary reason for "sales/need" decline ...


(edit for list tame npc buyable)

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Actually, I've wondered this, too. Can you train Lore/Vet from the Vet NPC?

I've given it some more thought. I don't think that I would mind a Pet Rez NPC if it was limited to horses, llamas, packies, beetles, ostards, rabbits, etc. Non-Tamer pets, I guess is what we are referring to them as. Maybe limit the number of times you can use the service. Once a day or something.

[/ QUOTE ]


The NPC will train you in the skills it knows, also "once a day" I am assuming you are speaking of a UO day and not real life. If so then I would agree, but if real time, then I have to ask they look at it different and allow more resing of pets from this NPC, also I again point out the NPC should charge you a small fee and take it from your bank when it does.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, once a UO day would be fine. A small fee would be good too.

I just thought that by having some limits, players might still seek the services of a Tamer instead of always just going to the NPC.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

The trick is to make many friends before your pet dies. Perhaps even ones that play at various times of the day.
This is all besides the fact that you can always release the pet and buy another one...

[/ QUOTE ]

So yeah, just run on, interrupt whatever your friend is doing to either get their tamer/log on their tamer to help rez your pet...And what a great friendsship based on "hey, I just keep you around so you can ress my pets" *rollseyes*

[/ QUOTE ]
The only one who's suggesting you only call upon your friends when you need a pet res is you.