My idea for a taming "Nerf"

[ShaunOfPac]

Ok, so basically everyone complains about tamers being overpowered, blah blah.

So heres MY idea on how to solve it: Remove taming bonuses to items. In order to control the pets, you need to tame them yourselves. My biggest gripe with tamers is that you can literally buy an advanced character, throw some jewelry, and BAM you have a greater dragon. I suggest removing all taming bonuses from in game items, making it so only the people whos chars have the ability to tame the animals have the ability to wield them.

 

[Azazel of LA]

Well if your going to do that then you need to remove all skill bonusus from all items , wich Im ALL for.

 

[Javin]

if you removed the skills from items like Marks of Trav, and crystalline rings, and doom artis....what would be the point of having half of the available items in the game?

~J

 

[Sarphus]

if you removed the skills from items like Marks of Trav, and crystalline rings, and doom artis....what would be the point of having half of the available items in the game?

~J

Yeah... I'm ok with removing skill mods from items, but if they're going to do that they would have to re-do all artifacts that have skill mods on at the very least.

Realistically, they should replace the +skill mods on all existing items with a random mod at the same intensity. So if you have an item with +15 skill on it, that mod would be randomly replaced with 100% intensity on some other mod.

 

[Eslake]

As I have said before, +skill items were simply a terrible idea.

They all should be translated to +% items as with crafter talismans.

No more 30 necro sampires.
No more 90 taming characters with greater dragons.
and so on..

If you can't do it without the item, you shouldn't be able to do it With the item. They should just increase your chances of success.

--
Yes they would have to change a few things.
+weapon skill would equate to +HCI, but some items have both.
+meditation would equate to Mana Regen, but only at 1/10 so it would need tweaking..

But overall it just makes more sense to get better chances than to gain actual abilities from items.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

Another gripe of ine is the ability to purchase advanced characters. Also, I am thoroughly amused by the people who complain about unattended macroers, yet purchase advanced characters.

 

[Simon Francis]

First we must look at the problems:

1. Trammel Players do not want their pets nerfed
2. Feluca Players are sick of fighting against PvP&M

Solution that would **** off the least amount of players:

Pets cannot attack other players.

 

[It Lives]

Due to the lack of mystical particles that your pet requires it will suffer stat loss until the moons change. (entering fel)

 

[Simon Francis]

Due to the lack of mystical particles that your pet requires it will suffer stat loss until the moons change. (entering fel)

Oh wow. That is a genious idea hahahaha

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

People make nerfing tamers in PvP more complex than it needs to be. We don't need to do a system overhaul of every +skill item in the game. We just need pets with the standard 35 damage cap, reduce their casting speed to 2/6, and lower their range to that of players.

 

[Shanna]

I do agree with you all about the existence of Advanced Character tokens. There's not much work needed to put into a character if you just buy it.

And as for the +skill mods, it's not cool them so many items have them but it frees up some space for added skills. Allowing more complex templates and soloing abilities.

However, the whining and complaining about tamers in fel, it just pathetic. Same ol story. Same person who says they are in Fel to pvp is the same person who spawns. Guess what! Spawning is pvm. If you are having so much difficulty with tamers in fel, get better. A pet on you doesn't mean you're dead, it does mean you might have to run from the area.

With so many scriptors and cheaters out there, some people have to resort to using a pet just to keep up. Just because so many of you run EasyUo doesn't make it right.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

I never said a tamers pets will get nerfed, they will keep all their abilities. But in order to control them, you must be able to tame them.

 

[SAVATAGE]

How about this... Instead of tring to nerf things into the stone age... Make the pets over all strenght ( spells, phys damage, speed. ect.) all dependant on the tamers total skill points in taming, lore and vet. Being 120 in these 3 skills will give the pet max damage. The lower overall total skill points the lower the damage.

Yes it would be a codeing nightmare, but there is similar systems inplace already in UO.

 

[WWGRD?]

I never said a tamers pets will get nerfed, they will keep all their abilities. But in order to control them, you must be able to tame them.

You're idea won't work. I have the real skill to control a greater dragon. My real skill doesn't do jack **** to stop the monster from doing 75+ hp damage to people. Taming itself doesn't need nerfed the dragons do.

 

[It Lives]

I never said a tamers pets will get nerfed, they will keep all their abilities. But in order to control them, you must be able to tame them.

I dont think too many argues that. But the item properties are so entrenched into the game that it prolly will never happen.

 

[Ender]

How about this... Instead of tring to nerf things into the stone age... Make the pets over all strenght ( spells, phys damage, speed. ect.) all dependant on the tamers total skill points in taming, lore and vet. Being 120 in these 3 skills will give the pet max damage. The lower overall total skill points the lower the damage.

Yes it would be a codeing nightmare, but there is similar systems inplace already in UO.

And at 3x 120 they should be no stronger than they are currently, slightly weaker in the case of greater dragons.

 

[Nexus]

First we must look at the problems:

1. Trammel Players do not want their pets nerfed
2. Feluca Players are sick of fighting against PvP&M

Solution that would **** off the least amount of players:

Pets cannot attack other players.

That's not even a solution...I've said it before and I'll say it again...Cap damage against players. NPC's and PC's are flagged different....Make it so if it's one the damage is as it is now if the other then it's capped at a reasonable level.

 

[SAVATAGE]

How about this... Instead of tring to nerf things into the stone age... Make the pets over all strenght ( spells, phys damage, speed. ect.) all dependant on the tamers total skill points in taming, lore and vet. Being 120 in these 3 skills will give the pet max damage. The lower overall total skill points the lower the damage.

Yes it would be a codeing nightmare, but there is similar systems inplace already in UO.

And at 3x 120 they should be no stronger than they are currently, slightly weaker in the case of greater dragons.

Yup.. 3x120 the animal would be at max power... and no stronger than they are now....

 

[Pfloyd]

Yup.. 3x120 the animal would be at max power... and no stronger than they are now....

There will be people that think that this isn't going to be enough...when will it stop? I can see it now...

"Magic using pets should only be as strong as the tamers ability!"
"Poison using pets should only be as strong as the poisoning skill on the tamers!" And i used tamers instead of owners for a reason.

Lets get even more rediculous..."People shouldnt be able to ride on a mount faster than they can run themselves..." The speed of a pet is based on their natural ability after all!

 

[Pfloyd]

As I have said before, +skill items were simply a terrible idea.

They all should be translated to +% items as with crafter talismans.

No more 30 necro sampires.
No more 90 taming characters with greater dragons.
and so on..

If you can't do it without the item, you shouldn't be able to do it With the item. They should just increase your chances of success.

--
Yes they would have to change a few things.
+weapon skill would equate to +HCI, but some items have both.
+meditation would equate to Mana Regen, but only at 1/10 so it would need tweaking..

But overall it just makes more sense to get better chances than to gain actual abilities from items.

They should just raise the natural cap to 120 and then max the playing field between the have's and have nots...make an Ancient Wyrm ownable with 150 taming base + items.

 

[galefan2004]

So heres MY idea on how to solve it: Remove taming bonuses to items.

I have a lot of respect for the OP, so I won't flame as much as I usually would, but this is a really bad idea. You really want to yank the rug out from under tamers? You have no proposal for making a system that requires jewelery just to get around having to tame animals for about 3 months straight (10+ hours a day) to use the higher end pets? I would love to dump my skill jewelery off of my template so that I can use better jewelery, but I'd also love to have a taming skill gain system that doesn't suck. Hell, you can't even count on GGS because you don't even always get that.

In order to control the pets, you need to tame them yourselves.

I personally like this idea, but a lot of other tamers would hate it. Also, if I want to give my trained pet to a friend (or sell it for a decent ammount) then why isn't that a viable option?

My biggest gripe with tamers is that you can literally buy an advanced character, throw some jewelry, and BAM you have a greater dragon.

I completely agree. You shouldn't have to buy an advanced character token. You shouldn't have to rely on jewelery. You should be able to get gains reliably. It takes about 15 hours to 120 parrying, melee, archery, tactics, anatomy, and many other skills but it takes you about 5 weeks to get to 100 taming if you tame 4-5 hours a day. That just doesn't add up. It shouldn't take 125+ hours to legendary taming and 48 hours to finish out a warrior character (with multiple 120s).

I suggest removing all taming bonuses from in game items, making it so only the people whos chars have the ability to tame the animals have the ability to wield them.

I'll agree with this if they make taming much easier to gain. As I typed already, 125+ hours to legendary a skill just doesn't compare to finishing an entire character in 48 hours.

 

[galefan2004]

if you removed the skills from items like Marks of Trav, and crystalline rings, and doom artis....what would be the point of having half of the available items in the game?

~J

Its called reitemization. They could make marks of travesty have 20% LRC instead of the skill bonus and bump its resists. They could make crystaline ring have 3 fcr and 20% lrc inplace of the skill bonus. They could reitemize the Doom items in a similar fashion. They would just have to be careful that they keep the items at the same level and same level of desirablity while taking away the +skill.

 

[galefan2004]

As I have said before, +skill items were simply a terrible idea.

I agree. They introduced them as a bandage so that they could avoid having to balance the skill system. They needed to just rebalance the skill training systems so that you could manage to gain through normal play.

 

[galefan2004]

Another gripe of ine is the ability to purchase advanced characters. Also, I am thoroughly amused by the people who complain about unattended macroers, yet purchase advanced characters.

Its good ole pay for play and it exists in every single game. You can already pay certain sites (which I will not mention) a certain ammount of cash to take a skill to 100 for you, so I don't see why EA shouldn't cash in on this by doing the powerleveling for the player.

 

[galefan2004]

Pets cannot attack other players.

Stupidest idea EVER. So you mean to tell me that when I spend 360 points in a skill set to take it to a champion spawn I have to give up all means of defense against some poc red that comes to raid me simply because I can't even use my pet as a line of defense. I have taken on 3 tamers at 1 time and killed them all on my tamer. If I can avoid 3 pets at a time then an average player should be able to manage a single pet.

 

[galefan2004]

Due to the lack of mystical particles that your pet requires it will suffer stat loss until the moons change. (entering fel)

Yes...pets should be completely nerfed in Felucca because some scrubs can't run away from them while killing the tamer. Here is a hint: SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY USE PETS FOR PVM IN FELUCCA!!!! Nerfing them just because they are in Felucca is also a PvM nerf, and pets really don't need nerfed in PvM.

 

[galefan2004]

How about this... Instead of tring to nerf things into the stone age... Make the pets over all strenght ( spells, phys damage, speed. ect.) all dependant on the tamers total skill points in taming, lore and vet. Being 120 in these 3 skills will give the pet max damage. The lower overall total skill points the lower the damage.

Yes...force them to buy 3 120 scrolls they really didn't ever need to buy before. I personally don't like buying blood diamonds from Africa and as much in game blood is shed over powerscrolls as those diamonds. I won't buy 120s for skills that I don't need 120 in, so making me buy 3 120s I don't want to buy is not something that will keep me playing.

 

[Simon Francis]

Stupidest idea EVER. So you mean to tell me that when I spend 360 points in a skill set to take it to a champion spawn I have to give up all means of defense against some poc red that comes to raid me simply because I can't even use my pet as a line of defense. I have taken on 3 tamers at 1 time and killed them all on my tamer. If I can avoid 3 pets at a time then an average player should be able to manage a single pet.

Those would have to be the 3 worst tamers in history with the worst pets possible. No one gets past my mage tamer.

 

[Krystal]

wanna fix tamers? have monster ignor work like it used to against tamers. it breaks if the tamer is attacked... or else if a tamer wants to pvp the animals specials dont work on player ran chars..

 

[galefan2004]

Those would have to be the 3 worst tamers in history with the worst pets possible. No one gets past my mage tamer.

Lol. Its surprising what skill does as compared to no skill, and yeah they probably were some of the worst people I have ever seen in the game. The funny thing is they dared me to come out of the house where they were attacking me, so I did, and before they knew it they were all going ooooo and I res killed the red and then the blue was grey so I killed them again to. It was very comical to say the least. I personally don't know your mage tamer, but I've been up against some good mage/tamers and lost, and I've been up against some of every class and lost. In the end, I still win plenty when I bother, and I don't even bother to actually wear pvp gear.

 

[Eslake]

People make nerfing tamers in PvP more complex than it needs to be. We don't need to do a system overhaul of every +skill item in the game. We just need pets with the standard 35 damage cap, reduce their casting speed to 2/6, and lower their range to that of players.

The problem is pets can't make decisions, or be creative in anyway. Imposing on them the same caps as players would make them as easy to kill as a 1 hour old newbie. And since the tamer has at the bare minimum 220 skill points invested in the dragon, they are easier to kill than any PvP template.
(basically you would be saying eliminate tamers from PvP period)

GDs aren't overpowerd, their breath just needs a hard cap to it.
I can make a character on TC1 right now, and cast 1 spell. Then you go get a GD and sick it on me. I will cast no more spells and not move, and the GD will be completely unable to kill me.
(and no, it is not a bard template )

Keep in mind that is with their Current breath and overall power.

But that isn't really the subject of this thread (*points to that Other thread.. and that Other Other thread, and that Othe... you get the idea*)

This one is about +skill jewlery letting someone have a GD that hasn't actually trained taming to get one.


I can't agree with making pets unusable on other characters. Unless you plan to balance it by making tamers/pets unattackable by other characters too. And no, I don't PvP on a tamer. (I just slaughter those who do)

+skill items were a quick fix to a long term problem. They should have been adjusted or completely replaced as time went on. Instead they keep adding more of them, causing yet more problems with them.

 

[Lady_Mina]

then they'll need to remove all 'magic' jewelry from the game.
(for ALL classes)

Wich is NEVER going to happen...
Along with all ideas above my post...are also never going to happen.

Feel free to quote what jeremy said when someone asked if they were going to fix ''GD's''

 

[Javin]

Its called reitemization. They could make marks of travesty have 20% LRC instead of the skill bonus and bump its resists. They could make crystaline ring have 3 fcr and 20% lrc inplace of the skill bonus. They could reitemize the Doom items in a similar fashion. They would just have to be careful that they keep the items at the same level and same level of desirablity while taking away the +skill.

I could go for that, and bet itd work too, but i bet coding that would be a nightmare, and to cap pet dmg would make life alot easier for everyone cept the tamers.
BUT in that aspect, players and their damage are capped, so it makes no sense to NOT have a cap on pets....

Is there another template that DOESNT have a cap on its damage in PVP?

Just curious

~J

 

[the 4th man]

I say nerf advanced character tokens, and let someone at EA eat hotdogs for awhile.

These tokens are for the lazy and impatient. My tamer was skilled up from scratch, and tamed damn near every pet I have. I don'y have a greater, cause I haven't tamed one.

I agree with you, tame it or forget it......and get rid of them damned tokens already!!!!

 

[Harb]

Shaun, it can be a very thin line for dev to walk once they begin making "adjustments" that may in effect be a "nerf" from many valid player perspectives. Adjustments tend to work out well in the long run, true "nerfs" have the opposite effect. Examples of adjustments might include capping pet breath in a PvP context at an appropriate level, or placing a duration timer on vamp embrace. To your original thought - please correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was that tamers are overpowered. Now we have some wanting to rid the game of skill bonuses, advanced characters, trading pets, etc. For my commander (the Mrs) and I, none of this matters (except for skill bonuses on one thief), so we don't have a dog in the hunt per se. Lots of folks do. Casual players may find advanced characters attractive, experienced players know we can hit those levels in a couple hours. These tokens work for those who want them, and have no impact on those who don't. There is a hard cap on skills, something OSI/ EA/ Mythic seems to refuse to touch, so the only way to broaden the skill field a little and retain viable levels of all skills on some templates is via items. Seasoned PvPers don't fear the dragon or it's owner (there was a day when a tamer might be hauling 6 dragons around, but that's long ago). We don't play our tamers a lot, but when we do there is always a specific task/ purpose for doing so. We've tamed all pets on our own, but have traded between ourselves - an ability that shouldn't be lost. So if dev focuses in on the concern, maybe an adjustment on breath attacks in PvP, but certainly no more than that.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

I've read through the complaints and comments, and here is what I have to say:

For taming being hard and painful to work up; IT SHOULD BE! It allows you to control some of the most powerful monsters in the game. I GM'ed my tamer on 6/29/2002 (Its in my chars profile), after thousands upon thousands of bulls. I see nothing wrong with how hard it is to gain, in fact, they should make it slightly harder to gain. Seriously, think about it. What other weapon in the game is more powerful than the all kill command with a greater dragon?

Adding items with skill bonuses was a horrible idea. OSI really ****ed up in that regard.

People who complain about a tamer's pets ability to deal damage: Get over it. There is no skill harder to build than taming, let them keep their uber pets. Just make it so some gimp with 75 real taming/lore cant wield the elite pets by taking away their ability to control them without the REAL required skill to tame them.

It is my personal belief that AoS ruined the game. All the bull**** it introduced completely ruined the balance of the game and made it an Everquest clone with ****tier graphics.

 

[Draxous]

Well if your going to do that then you need to remove all skill bonusus from all items , wich Im ALL for.

I think that would be one of the biggest steps towards balancing this game for everyone...

Want to run an over powered necro mage with a 1 hander so you can easily chug pots? Take a hit to magery and your melee skill OR run a 2 hander with -0 mage wep and suffer not so easy chugging.

Soooo good would this idea be.