Mace/chiv/tact/anat/heal/miner with 120 Smithy. Imbued Bonecrusher with earth slayer. Wearing all the gear with STR/DEX/INT pumps. 150STR/150DEX/65INT.
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I remember that they stated that mining in Fel and also in caves has higher chances in getting colored ore. It's very long ago when I read it and I think it was in a HoC Chat ........ is it possible that Hanse was still around at that time when they changed mining? I think I can remember, not 100% sure but pretty sure.
Z
Zyon Rockler
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Another idea, just suggestions, add more bonuses so you can get more. For example: Place a Smelter that gives an increase bonus, similar to the Soul Forge.
Also, add tags so that once ore is smelted or wood is chopped it will get a tag that says untreated metal or unmilled lumber, so you have another process to add to colored ore and wood.
So, as your collecting ore and using a fire beatle, the ignots will say, untreated. You can then take normal metal, iron and add it to your colored ore to produce more of the colored by using up the iron. The ignots will then be treated.
The same thing with wood. You would cut logs, turn them into boards, the boards would say, unmilled. You would take them to a saw mill and add your colored wood and then add normal wood to increase the number of colored wood.
So, on the high end, for every 10 iron ignots, you could produce 1 Valorite Ignot, if you treated it and the other ores could be less. For example: Gold or Copper might only take 6 iron to produce 1 gold ignot.
So, maybe another tool, a special smelter could be used to combine the metals and saw mills could become important. So, this would just be another way to add to your resources, similar to wool becoming balls of yarn or balls of yarn becoming bolts on the loom.
So, alittle extra work for more resource.
Also, add tags so that once ore is smelted or wood is chopped it will get a tag that says untreated metal or unmilled lumber, so you have another process to add to colored ore and wood.
So, as your collecting ore and using a fire beatle, the ignots will say, untreated. You can then take normal metal, iron and add it to your colored ore to produce more of the colored by using up the iron. The ignots will then be treated.
The same thing with wood. You would cut logs, turn them into boards, the boards would say, unmilled. You would take them to a saw mill and add your colored wood and then add normal wood to increase the number of colored wood.
So, on the high end, for every 10 iron ignots, you could produce 1 Valorite Ignot, if you treated it and the other ores could be less. For example: Gold or Copper might only take 6 iron to produce 1 gold ignot.
So, maybe another tool, a special smelter could be used to combine the metals and saw mills could become important. So, this would just be another way to add to your resources, similar to wool becoming balls of yarn or balls of yarn becoming bolts on the loom.
So, alittle extra work for more resource.
Don't you think people are saving all their valorite to fill valorite bribed BOD's to get val runic hammers? You know I am. Also, I save my valorite for other relic manufacture reasons too, which isn't needed at the moment since shame loot provided a less resource intensive method. Be careful making the jump that since no one in Luna is selling something there isn't valorite ingots being used. The rarity of something could also indicate a higher demand than the market can supply.
Regarding this thread:
I'm not saying I don't agree with the examination premise in this thread. Sometimes I just stay in a few spots and just go around in circles to get the respawn to get my valorite. The premise in this email thread is by some unknown method being used to mine that there isn't enough resources found. What about other methods? Other methods you ask?
1. You can have a daily rune library marking runes to specific ore types like valorite Sometimes those daily ones last longer than one day. Once the spot has been reset to something else move that to the new book or book of blank runes...like the old method, but on a more regular basis.
2. Strip mine and get the resource spawn to reset to another ore type. Sometimes this requires many people to mine in the same area. Go to where other people are and strip out all the iron ore repeatedly to get a respawn. Only take a few hits of the valorite ore when it spawns so it doesn't reset the spawn.
3. Theoretically you can make an entire area of just valorite if you have enough people prospecting and turning up the spawn color. This requires some coordination of the community, but you can get a group of miners together that only mines in a specific area or region. Coordinate their effort to turn the color only up to a specific amount and only take a few hits off a single ore spot to keep it below the spawn reset threshold.
3a. Make a web site that coordinates efforts of the community of miners to do this. Then everyone on every shard can go to a specific region or location and get the valorite or colored ore they want.
Running through the vast landscape to find that one valorite ore in your path will rarely get you the qty of resources you need. There are probably more ways to mine to get a higher resource count, but sometimes brute force doesn't work.
-Lorax
How do you correlate me saying something isn't for sale as that means valorite ingots aren't being used.
I'm sure valorite ingots are getting used. However, the shortage of valorite ingots for sale in Luna predates this change by quite a bit.
This is completely wrong. Every time a resource tile is collected it has a chance to respawn as a different grade ore or log.
Players have tried this extensively with frostwood. Simply not mining or chopping it completely out will not prevent the system from changing it to a different type.
After a resource tile is collected, whether you run it dry or not, there is a chance that it will change. Then comes in the spawn rate which will determine what it changes to. If it was a high-end rare ore or log already, the chances that it will respawn as the same is pretty slim. Whatever the spawn rate is.
Aren't you saying there isn't any valorite and implying that since something isn't for sale that others don't have the resource? Maybe it just seemed that way to me.
I do method 1 and 2 that I identified so I know they work. Maybe it is how I'm doing it compared with the extensive list of other players. Don't know.
I would like more valorite so whatever you guys come up with is fine by me...just sayin.
-Lorax
I think the two easiest improvements would be to obviously increase the spawn chance of colored ore and logs and for mining to get rid of the archaic smelting system for ore where you lose so much of it.
Those two changes would be a start. Put those in and then let us test it to determine if it's a better rate of return for the time spent.
Those two changes would be a start. Put those in and then let us test it to determine if it's a better rate of return for the time spent.
No val for sale with it at one time being worth more for tallies at the library. Boosted more if "owned by no one"
There needs to be a new elemental base champ spawn for the random sites. Rarewood Treefolk, Rare Ore Elementals & Granite Elementals.
There needs to be a new elemental base champ spawn for the random sites. Rarewood Treefolk, Rare Ore Elementals & Granite Elementals.
Wrong enterance dungeon tunnel. First stretch to the T and sparkles. Every two steps is a mining spot. Prospector and gargoyle pickaxe combo.
Agapite
Agapite
Copper
Bronze
Verite
Shadow
Verite
Shadow
Agapite
Agapite
Copper
Bronze
Verite
Shadow
Verite
Shadow
So I took the war pigs advice and swapped mining for spirit speak on my sampire. The results were pretty good actually. Ended up with about 1000 val ingots. I do think this is still too low since I did spend a majority of a day mining. What about some kind of talisman that would increase the quality of ore. So basically a gold ore spot would yield valorite using a prospectors tool, gargoyle pickaxe and the talisman. I would however suggest making it similar to the gargoyle pickaxe so that it spawns elementals. That way it makes it a bit more difficult to script for the afk scripters.
Lumberjacks have a 100% success rate converting logs to boards. If you can chop it you can convert logs to boards, regardless of the rarity of the wood.
Miners have a descending success rate, ending at 62%, wearing +5 mning gloves, smelting valorite.
This is horrendously unfair.
Time to remove smelt failure entirely. ALL ores should smelt. If you can mine it you should be able to smelt it 100% of the time.
Miners have a descending success rate, ending at 62%, wearing +5 mning gloves, smelting valorite.
This is horrendously unfair.
Time to remove smelt failure entirely. ALL ores should smelt. If you can mine it you should be able to smelt it 100% of the time.
Fridgster the real question, "wasn't mining all day a hell lot more fun with rare ores popping up and being able to mine areas no mule would go?" My miner was a necro till they nerfed mining in wraith form. The pally necro swap was made between my jacker and miner. Jackers get to do it in wraith form. Was an OK swap being able to mine the Swoop area and having pixie backup vs paragon rare ores. Get a paragon Valorite Elemental spawned by the shrine and watch the carnage.
Just need to make the fel/tram forge at the Minoc mines a no fail smelter. Also the smith forge in Delucia. City has a long history of mining.
1000 val for a days haul is a fair bit for a days mining. Maybe not now with bribery. The bribery be a mute point once all the NPCs last two bribes total over 250k gold. So you bribe away to get that 20x val plate set BODs. It is fair to have to mine two days to get the val needed to fill the set.
Just need to make the fel/tram forge at the Minoc mines a no fail smelter. Also the smith forge in Delucia. City has a long history of mining.
1000 val for a days haul is a fair bit for a days mining. Maybe not now with bribery. The bribery be a mute point once all the NPCs last two bribes total over 250k gold. So you bribe away to get that 20x val plate set BODs. It is fair to have to mine two days to get the val needed to fill the set.
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MY experience is that Ore doesn't work the way the devs think it does,
Their belief (from pre-randomization - doesn't appear to be different now):
All spots produce the same ratio of ore: Humans get 40% colored, Elves 60% colored. Only difference is amount mined, and the 20% more digs for elves and 10% free ore tend to balance out (as the elf extra digs seem to just give more small or medium digs, while the human bonus reliably hits large medium & small ore digs alike)
What actually seems to be the case:
Each spot has its own typical amount given, and its own RATIO OF IRON TO COLOR. When the ore amount changes, the RATIO STAYS THE SAME. (so, if a spot normally gives 70% DC, and changes to Valorite, then it will give 70% Valorite). In fact, it was a lot of the high volume, high-percentage spots that most pre-randomization private ore libraries had been whittled down to. (I have a few Trammel/Malas 50%-70% spots with 20+ digs in my books I still occasionally hit)
Humans use the base ratio (as a percentage). For elves, that percentage is multiplied by 1.2. So a spot that gives humans 10% gives 12% to elves; the earlier mentioned rare 70% spot (roughly 7/10, becomes 8/11 with human bonus, from 10 digs) gives 84% to elves (10 of 12). The higher the base quality of the spot, the bigger the bonus for elves.
Again, the extra digs for my elf always seemed to be more of the small ore, so I went back to human mining for the carrying capacity, and ability to stay in the field longer.
Depending on my mood, I typically Ilshenar mine. I dig once with a garg pick.
a. If I get iron, I use prospector's tool to see what I got.
b. If I get dull copper from the dig, or the spot gets elevated to DC by the PT use, typically, I'll just use a sturdy shovel and mine DC (I run at an extreme DC ingot deficit). After all, my ele hunter is a legendary macer in addition to GM mining and legendary smith, so when I want Shadow ore, it's quicker to go farm orc brutes at the orc mines or shadow eles at the yomotsu mines.
c. If the spot gives any other ore, I look at my needs
-If I get the colored ore off the GPA use, and I need that ore (or a chest from that colored ore), I bypass the PT use.
-Otherwise, I use a PT to bump it 1 more level, then go back to GPA digging.
This afternoon, I'll go do a dig and see what the results are.
Their belief (from pre-randomization - doesn't appear to be different now):
All spots produce the same ratio of ore: Humans get 40% colored, Elves 60% colored. Only difference is amount mined, and the 20% more digs for elves and 10% free ore tend to balance out (as the elf extra digs seem to just give more small or medium digs, while the human bonus reliably hits large medium & small ore digs alike)
What actually seems to be the case:
Each spot has its own typical amount given, and its own RATIO OF IRON TO COLOR. When the ore amount changes, the RATIO STAYS THE SAME. (so, if a spot normally gives 70% DC, and changes to Valorite, then it will give 70% Valorite). In fact, it was a lot of the high volume, high-percentage spots that most pre-randomization private ore libraries had been whittled down to. (I have a few Trammel/Malas 50%-70% spots with 20+ digs in my books I still occasionally hit)
Humans use the base ratio (as a percentage). For elves, that percentage is multiplied by 1.2. So a spot that gives humans 10% gives 12% to elves; the earlier mentioned rare 70% spot (roughly 7/10, becomes 8/11 with human bonus, from 10 digs) gives 84% to elves (10 of 12). The higher the base quality of the spot, the bigger the bonus for elves.
Again, the extra digs for my elf always seemed to be more of the small ore, so I went back to human mining for the carrying capacity, and ability to stay in the field longer.
Depending on my mood, I typically Ilshenar mine. I dig once with a garg pick.
a. If I get iron, I use prospector's tool to see what I got.
b. If I get dull copper from the dig, or the spot gets elevated to DC by the PT use, typically, I'll just use a sturdy shovel and mine DC (I run at an extreme DC ingot deficit). After all, my ele hunter is a legendary macer in addition to GM mining and legendary smith, so when I want Shadow ore, it's quicker to go farm orc brutes at the orc mines or shadow eles at the yomotsu mines.
c. If the spot gives any other ore, I look at my needs
-If I get the colored ore off the GPA use, and I need that ore (or a chest from that colored ore), I bypass the PT use.
-Otherwise, I use a PT to bump it 1 more level, then go back to GPA digging.
This afternoon, I'll go do a dig and see what the results are.
S
SlackAttacker
Guest
I think the rarity of high-end metals is just fine. Their scarcity is what makes them valuable and gives purpose to the time spent mining them.
As for randomization, I love it - it brings the challenge (and feeling of reward) back to mining without allowing people to obscenely profit from unattended macroing. Plus, as a non-scriptor myself, I like anything that takes away from scriptors.
That said, I don't think it's all that tough to get a decent supply of valorite. I can take a few GP's and PT's and go get 200+ val ingots in ~1hr of mining (along with a little bit of other stuff and imbuing gems and blackrock).
The trick is to not go and mine every minable square to exhaustion. Just wack a spot with a regular shovel, prospect it, if it's apagite or better, wack away with the GP and dump iron. If not good ore, move on. Dig in fel. Hunt for val and ver elems. Remember the veins where you recently mined good ore and revist after a while - the color of ore doesn't always change, and you can sometimes get the same ore on several minings of the same spot in a day.
As for smelting: at 105, chance of valorite is 62%. I know it's tempting to assume that 100 ore = 200 ignots, but it just isn't the case. If you smelt in smaller batches say 2-5 ore per, you will usually end up with ~62% of your haul. You can always risk it and go for the big money, but it you fail twice in a row, you're looking at 25% of your haul. This is classic bird in hand vs bush scenario.
As for randomization, I love it - it brings the challenge (and feeling of reward) back to mining without allowing people to obscenely profit from unattended macroing. Plus, as a non-scriptor myself, I like anything that takes away from scriptors.
That said, I don't think it's all that tough to get a decent supply of valorite. I can take a few GP's and PT's and go get 200+ val ingots in ~1hr of mining (along with a little bit of other stuff and imbuing gems and blackrock).
The trick is to not go and mine every minable square to exhaustion. Just wack a spot with a regular shovel, prospect it, if it's apagite or better, wack away with the GP and dump iron. If not good ore, move on. Dig in fel. Hunt for val and ver elems. Remember the veins where you recently mined good ore and revist after a while - the color of ore doesn't always change, and you can sometimes get the same ore on several minings of the same spot in a day.
As for smelting: at 105, chance of valorite is 62%. I know it's tempting to assume that 100 ore = 200 ignots, but it just isn't the case. If you smelt in smaller batches say 2-5 ore per, you will usually end up with ~62% of your haul. You can always risk it and go for the big money, but it you fail twice in a row, you're looking at 25% of your haul. This is classic bird in hand vs bush scenario.
It didn't take a mathematical genius to see that the method by which they were suddenly going to randomly fluctuate ores would cause a severe drop in the high-end ores, but I commented on it anyway when they first suggested implementing it.
Mind you, the first time that they proposed implementing it, a development team that actually listened to feedback and came to understand the problem decided against implementing it because they, as many on these forums, came to realize that such a change would punish only the players of the game and do next to nothing to the scripters.
Unfortunately, a later development team must have come across the codebase buried somewhere within someone's desk -- as seems to be the trend for the past three years -- and decided to turn on that particular codeset.
What has resulted is that high-end resources in both lumberjacking and mining have become even more scarce.
It would be nice if they set down with a set percentage that each worldmap should contain, flip a random button, and then lock it in place so people could reliably mine stuff up again. But I suspect that will not happen.
I beleave over a year ago the boys here when I yipped that I was not getting any Frostwood or high end ores like Val and verite suguested I invest in ore carts and stumps from the rewards menu. I did.
I have found I get alot more of the high end ore from my ore carts then I can find in an average 3 hour jaunt over Sosaria no matter what facit. And as for Frostwood... the stumps are my only source as I have still yet to find a tree that gives it on ANY shard i go wack a tree on.
It's pure fustration to find a val spot and only get 3 pieces and 24 iron.
The ship kills are good but its not like you can skuttle one quickly enough to merrit calling it a good way to build up supplys.
I have found I get alot more of the high end ore from my ore carts then I can find in an average 3 hour jaunt over Sosaria no matter what facit. And as for Frostwood... the stumps are my only source as I have still yet to find a tree that gives it on ANY shard i go wack a tree on.
It's pure fustration to find a val spot and only get 3 pieces and 24 iron.
The ship kills are good but its not like you can skuttle one quickly enough to merrit calling it a good way to build up supplys.
Pretty long thread, tldr. But my miner is a 120 macer w/ an earth ele slaying diamond mace. I use prosp and garg all the time, and with BOD changes it makes it easy to get new garg picks (but I have a ton from IDOCs, heh).
Anyway, I'd say put on a wep skill, use a slayer, and just go to town on elementals. Def the way to go.
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So far, 47 minutes total mining (counting saltpeter mining that I would ignore if I was going full bore for ore). Not counting the breaks every few minutes to record my results (again, something I normally don't do). Mining in Ilshenar, Valor region.
7 minutes spent exclusively on saltpeter: 277 saltpeter from 2 spots, with around 565 luck.
40 minutes digging ore, concentrating on getting Dull Copper:
Essentially, digging once with a sturdy shovel
A. If I get Dull Copper, I continue with the sturdy shovel
B. If I get another ore, it gets advanced as far as possible by using PT & switching to Gargoyle Pickaxe.
C. If I get Iron, I use a prospector tool
C1. If the result is Dull Copper, I go back to the sturdy shovel
C2. Any other ore, I go to Gargoyle Pickaxe
This has a result of maximizing DC, and minimizing Shadow. Copper becomes rare in comparison, as well.
Results from ~40 minutes of digging:
4 small blackrock
2 Crystalline Blackrock (off Elementals)
Strangely, 0 mining ML gems
405 Iron
372 DC
6 Shadow
66 Copper (most from the copper elemental I dug up after accidentally enhancing a natural DC spot to shadow then switching to GPA)
281 Bronze (I got 3 Bronze eles)
14 Gold
107 Agapite (1 elemental)
3 Verite
196 Valorite! (2 elementals, and 1 naturally occurring Valorite, in addition to spots elevated to Valorite)
Only using 100 mining (wearing Stormgrip for luck and combat bonuses)
Failures smelting (never smelting more than 25 at a time, and those are elemental stacks). I smelt after each vein runs dry:
3 Bronze failures
2 Agapite failures
6 Verite failures
I'll do another run later, going for high-end production instead of DC.
7 minutes spent exclusively on saltpeter: 277 saltpeter from 2 spots, with around 565 luck.
40 minutes digging ore, concentrating on getting Dull Copper:
Essentially, digging once with a sturdy shovel
A. If I get Dull Copper, I continue with the sturdy shovel
B. If I get another ore, it gets advanced as far as possible by using PT & switching to Gargoyle Pickaxe.
C. If I get Iron, I use a prospector tool
C1. If the result is Dull Copper, I go back to the sturdy shovel
C2. Any other ore, I go to Gargoyle Pickaxe
This has a result of maximizing DC, and minimizing Shadow. Copper becomes rare in comparison, as well.
Results from ~40 minutes of digging:
4 small blackrock
2 Crystalline Blackrock (off Elementals)
Strangely, 0 mining ML gems
405 Iron
372 DC
6 Shadow
66 Copper (most from the copper elemental I dug up after accidentally enhancing a natural DC spot to shadow then switching to GPA)
281 Bronze (I got 3 Bronze eles)
14 Gold
107 Agapite (1 elemental)
3 Verite
196 Valorite! (2 elementals, and 1 naturally occurring Valorite, in addition to spots elevated to Valorite)
Only using 100 mining (wearing Stormgrip for luck and combat bonuses)
Failures smelting (never smelting more than 25 at a time, and those are elemental stacks). I smelt after each vein runs dry:
3 Bronze failures
2 Agapite failures
6 Verite failures
I'll do another run later, going for high-end production instead of DC.
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Round 2:
Mining the same spots, for same period of time, going Garg pick, PT to elevate (if not already val) and finishing out with garg picks.
~45-47 minutes digging ore; elevating ore for elevating's sake as high as possible.
No niter found (strangely enough).
This minimizes DC, and Should maximizes Shadow; Valorite rate should be about the same as the other method (before factoring in failures and elementals).
Results:
4 small blackrock
2 Crystalline Blackrock (off Elementals)
3 mining ML gems
462 Iron
34 DC
564 Shadow (6 elementals)
212 Copper (3 elementals)
150 Bronze (2 elementals)
139 Gold (1 elemental)
26 Agapite
73 Verite
only 40 Valorite (1 elemental)
Failures smelting (I had a couple of stacks 26-29 this time, that succeeded first try) I smelt after each vein runs dry:
3 Agapite failures
1 Verite failures
8 valorite failures (very costly this time)
Comparative totals:
the "DC-first" method (half sturdy tools, half GPA): 1150 ingots (And 277 saltpeter)
the "dig the best" method (all GPA): 1700 ingots.
Strangely, due to failures and where the elementals came up, the lower-ingot method ended up giving higher amounts of agapite and valorite.
Extrapolated to 60 minutes, this equates out to
DC-first: 1725 ingots per hour (ignoring the niter digging)
All-GPA with PT: 2266 ingots per hour.
Mining the same spots, for same period of time, going Garg pick, PT to elevate (if not already val) and finishing out with garg picks.
~45-47 minutes digging ore; elevating ore for elevating's sake as high as possible.
No niter found (strangely enough).
This minimizes DC, and Should maximizes Shadow; Valorite rate should be about the same as the other method (before factoring in failures and elementals).
Results:
4 small blackrock
2 Crystalline Blackrock (off Elementals)
3 mining ML gems
462 Iron
34 DC
564 Shadow (6 elementals)
212 Copper (3 elementals)
150 Bronze (2 elementals)
139 Gold (1 elemental)
26 Agapite
73 Verite
only 40 Valorite (1 elemental)
Failures smelting (I had a couple of stacks 26-29 this time, that succeeded first try) I smelt after each vein runs dry:
3 Agapite failures
1 Verite failures
8 valorite failures (very costly this time)
Comparative totals:
the "DC-first" method (half sturdy tools, half GPA): 1150 ingots (And 277 saltpeter)
the "dig the best" method (all GPA): 1700 ingots.
Strangely, due to failures and where the elementals came up, the lower-ingot method ended up giving higher amounts of agapite and valorite.
Extrapolated to 60 minutes, this equates out to
DC-first: 1725 ingots per hour (ignoring the niter digging)
All-GPA with PT: 2266 ingots per hour.