Messana. On your PvP changes:

[aarons6]

You're defending sampires yet you go on to say that you're forced to pick between a handful of templates. That is part of the problem. The monsters have to be adjusted to keep them from being soloed by sampires, which makes other templates weaker.

The concept of a vampire paladin doesn't make any sense. Furthermore the fact still stands that you're using necromacy and chiv at the same time, which seems mutually exclusive to me.

nobody says anything about adjusting monsters... its not the monsters that are too powerful, its the other temps besides sampires that are too weak.

 

[TheDrAJ]

A friend of mine suggested that on siege make faction gear disappear when murdering a non faction opponent.

 

[Elric_Soban]

20% is not near enough to justify going pure. Leave it at 35-40.

May even consider adding an additional 5% for reg use instead of 100% LRC suits.

Now THAT is an excellent idea. Maybe even 10%. LRC seriously annoys me.

 

[TheMac]

The concept of a vampire paladin doesn't make any sense. Furthermore the fact still stands that you're using necromacy and chiv at the same time, which seems mutually exclusive to me.

An epic paladin gets bit by a vampire... He turns into a vampire but still lives by the code of the paladin.. THAT MAKES NO SENSE RIGHT?......

 

[TheMac]

And do you have to have negative karma to be a Necro? If this actually happens I want it so if a necro gets positive karma their necro skill goes to 0.

 

[Ender]

How about we just turn the game into a class-based game like WoW and LotRO and every other MMO! That way it'll be totally balanced!

 

[Mervyn]

Agreed with pretty much everything from the OP,

Don't really see why you would want to reduce the statloss time though, considering everyone has multiple chars and some people even have more than one account.

 

[PJay]

People have more than one account? really? wow!

I agree with the OP for the most part.

The stat loss effect will just produce a similar result u'd be changing it for the sake of it and not really making a change.

Ranged Disarm no thanks that just MORE archer power!!

Someone meantioned pure mage not using mage weps great idea! Id make it so if a mage wep was equipped they drop down to the normal 15 sdi.

50sdi total is stupid!

 

[Mervyn]

I like that they want to make pure mages useable again, it's true atm if you play a pure mage, you can't really kill any template. However, what annoys me about each patch and change, is it makes the game mechanics more and more complicated, it's another bookmark for your browser of lists of things you have to remember to play the game/make a template.

JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE!

hidden game mechanics bug me so much, how on earth is a new player supposed to keep up with all these things? tbh, it doesn't actually tell you anywhere in game that lmc is capped, sdi is capped for pvp etc etc, there's a constant list of things that veteran players will know and have an advantage of over new players. I've been playing this game for 7 years and I'm tired of winning everytime not through skill, but through knowledge.

 

[SixUnder]

Messana,

We really appreciate you trying to give PvP some need changes. But it is apparent that you may need some re-direction on some of your items. PvPers / Factions do need some changes. We have asked for many years for some of these.

Please consider the following;

Chivalry: Can not use it with negative Karma....period. Make Karma the sole switch for any use of this skill. It is what it should have been all along. Negative karma characters can NEVER be chivalrous.

Necromancy: Can not use this with positive Karma...period. Make Karma the sole switch for using this skill. It is what it should have been all along. Good karma characters can NEVER be necromancers.

Skill Focus: 40% is way over the top, as testing has shown. 20% would be good. 10% more for Inscribe. May even consider adding an additional 5% for reg use instead of 100% LRC suits.

Mysticsm: Re-enable purge from Ninja form, the rest of the changes you have suggested are definetly workable. Purge from Ninja form is a MUST. Spell Plague needs a bit more of a turn down in power though. You are on the right direction with Cleansing Winds, we'll have to see if it is enough

Apples: 15-20 seconds.

Cure Potions: Timer same as Heal potions.

Weapon Specials: Allow for a disarm special for ranged weapons. 2nd tier for more mana cost.

Factions:

1. Wipe all points and make faction gear wearable by anyone in Factions (for the cost of silver).

2. Make the Fel ruleset the switch for the Faction gear. Leave Fel, the gear becomes normal armor with no affects whatsoever. No more Trammel Factioneers. *This is a MUST*

3. Make stat loss 50% and last for 15 minutes. Penalties need to be handed down for dying in faction fighting and the increased stat loss keeps the dead person from ressing and continuing on (due to enhancing items and 120 skills now). This allows for a clear winner in any given battle.

4. Reduce sigil time to 6 hour again. The time we had that made for a lot of faction base fighing. Bring it back permanently. Keep towns for 3 days, as per currently norm.

Your direction has some brilliant points but please reconsider your stance and do consider the above. It is what your players have been asking for... some of it for coming up on a decade. I am sure we will be recieving more input from others.

Thank you for your time.

well said sir.
much better than messanas TC1 publish.

although i dont think we can change apple timer, if we do...

have to justify templates who do nothing but spam spell plague, etc.. with pixie, and pets

 

[icm420]

My Wife has a necro mage with 120 wrestling, just tossing that out there. I also have both a mystic and a necro with no med, another worthy mention. My most used character is a scribe mage, but you did say 95% of people can't do that. If it is player skill that is missing, then perhaps practice is the best remedy, if figuring out a tactical way to use a character that does not have a mage weapon then again practice.

A little bit of confusion on my part is this, you say a tactics mage is not viable, I assume because you need tactics in the template for it to work? I don't understand how removing the need for tactics really is any different than just tossing wrestling on your character, same amount of skill points are needed and you will still be "missing" one of those 6 skills you just said you had to have, so what am I missing?

Where I play no med is not an option. I assume you run around with 8-10 people making a no med toon doable. Or you run faction and have the beefed up pieces or armor. I run non faction, solo or with 2 people max..I run 40 med on a gimp and I get by but it's not enough to hold a grinder.

Are you beating rock form/protection mystics on a pure scribe mage? I would love to watch that 1 v 1. Unless the guy is a scrub you are not winning...besides when is it ever 1 v 1? Are you beating rock form/pro mystics on a wrestle necro mage? Once again I would love to watch. The only counter to mystic is mystic therefor you must play mystic to compete.

As for a tactics mage, the need for at least 90 tactics makes it very hard to create a mage that uses a weapon and has power. Not talking about the suit here, which has always been hard, but the skills. 120mage/120eval/120resist/120weapon/90 tactics leaves 150 points for med and what else? I personally can't run 50 med (which is actually 40), and throw scribe on. Assuming I could once again, how are you beating the mystics? Can 150 points give you 120 mystic 120 focus? Can 150 points give you 100 necro/120 ss? No you get 1 other skill and alittle med or you get 120 tactics and 120 med. Test that out against a mystic mage and see how yah do. You could drop resist spells I guess, but once again try that against spell plauge spammers and see how yah do.

I don't wanna be a ****, but you sound like a guy who rolls around with a big crew and ganks, where it doesn't really matter what char you play because you have so much damage synching on one target that hes gonna die no matter what.

I have played mages for a long time, I've learned from good mages and I kill a lot of people with mages. But mysticism is so easy and it's forced onto you that it has made pvp boring. Necro's got old but it took awhile and a pure could compete against them. Mystic your just screwed against unless you are mystic.

I mayb wrong, I am often, but I doubt that you are tearing up your shard solo on a wrestle scribe mage.

 

[Myphsar]

How about we just turn the game into a class-based game like WoW and LotRO and every other MMO! That way it'll be totally balanced!

Yea, that is what people seem to want
And i always thought one of the best features of UO is you can put whatever skills you want together.
Oh well, ill just wait and see how this ends up.

 

[Widow Maker]

I was hoping Mesanna would drop by and post her own thoughts, we do value those.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Where I play no med is not an option. I assume you run around with 8-10 people making a no med toon doable. Or you run faction and have the beefed up pieces or armor. I run non faction, solo or with 2 people max..I run 40 med on a gimp and I get by but it's not enough to hold a grinder.

Are you beating rock form/protection mystics on a pure scribe mage? I would love to watch that 1 v 1. Unless the guy is a scrub you are not winning...besides when is it ever 1 v 1? Are you beating rock form/pro mystics on a wrestle necro mage? Once again I would love to watch. The only counter to mystic is mystic therefor you must play mystic to compete.

As for a tactics mage, the need for at least 90 tactics makes it very hard to create a mage that uses a weapon and has power. Not talking about the suit here, which has always been hard, but the skills. 120mage/120eval/120resist/120weapon/90 tactics leaves 150 points for med and what else? I personally can't run 50 med (which is actually 40), and throw scribe on. Assuming I could once again, how are you beating the mystics? Can 150 points give you 120 mystic 120 focus? Can 150 points give you 100 necro/120 ss? No you get 1 other skill and alittle med or you get 120 tactics and 120 med. Test that out against a mystic mage and see how yah do. You could drop resist spells I guess, but once again try that against spell plauge spammers and see how yah do.

I don't wanna be a ****, but you sound like a guy who rolls around with a big crew and ganks, where it doesn't really matter what char you play because you have so much damage synching on one target that hes gonna die no matter what.

I have played mages for a long time, I've learned from good mages and I kill a lot of people with mages. But mysticism is so easy and it's forced onto you that it has made pvp boring. Necro's got old but it took awhile and a pure could compete against them. Mystic your just screwed against unless you are mystic.

I mayb wrong, I am often, but I doubt that you are tearing up your shard solo on a wrestle scribe mage.

Except for "rock form mystic" you have no argument, I am not dying to any rock form mystic 1 v1 either, so I would call that balance. I have my wife, me, and very occasionally 1 other person, doesn't matter what shard We are on that is all we have.

Mystic does not have such excessive damage that it can do any better in 1v1 than any of the other templates. Does it have the super heal crutch? Sure, but then Dexxers can run away for hours on end and it would be the same thing. I was not making an argument that mystics do not have a crutch to stay alive or not, simply stating that the game is meant to enjoy and have fun, I will not cast you amongst some but you make it sound like the only way to enjoy the game is to overpower everything, and that is the problem. Everyone trying to play the "power" card means no one wins.

I was not taking you for a ****, and still don't. I also do not fully disagree with anything, just saying it is possible to play the game and enjoy it, sure sometimes you might have to switch characters, or templates, or tactics, but you don't always have to be in rock form on a mystic casting cleansing wind for hours on end to play the game. And for future reference, try not to take to many liberties and make assumptions with out asking, just saying that's the only part that made you sound bad at all.

You did note sate my curiosity on what you are getting at with the tactics mage issue, I mean picking up a weapon skill AND tactics is the counter for mage weapon? But you cant fit just wrestling? I understand how tactics mages work, I have been playing a mage for a good....what is it 14 years? I just don't understand how the two problems you presented were related in terms of not being possible.

 

[Tinsil]

I was hoping Mesanna would drop by and post her own thoughts, we do value those.

Me too. This is why a resist spells buff is NOT needed. We don't want any skill to become powerful enough where it's mandatory in PVP.

 

[Saint of Killers]

well said sir.
much better than messanas TC1 publish.

although i dont think we can change apple timer, if we do...

have to justify templates who do nothing but spam spell plague, etc.. with pixie, and pets

Hey Six, why aren't you whining about them making poisoning so strong with these changes???

Oh wait, that's right. Why whine about something that helps your template so much.

A 15-20 second apple time is too low. Thirty seconds sounds right to me, and I wouldn't whine about 45 either. I can't believe apples have been so low for this low anyway. It's just another crutch like curing with a healing stone, or cleansing with protection on.

The idea that Chad had with "peaches that remove mortals" sounds kind of cool, except it should be for mortals & blood oath imo.

 

[wee papa smurf]

How about we just turn the game into a class-based game like WoW and LotRO and every other MMO! That way it'll be totally balanced!

Im with this guy, all you whiny blighters! UO is unique for choosing what template you want to play with whatever skills you want, it does seem to me that these changes are solely attacking the sampire, but thats just my opinion

 

[icm420]

Except for "rock form mystic" you have no argument, I am not dying to any rock form mystic 1 v1 either, so I would call that balance. I have my wife, me, and very occasionally 1 other person, doesn't matter what shard We are on that is all we have.

Mystic does not have such excessive damage that it can do any better in 1v1 than any of the other templates. Does it have the super heal crutch? Sure, but then Dexxers can run away for hours on end and it would be the same thing. I was not making an argument that mystics do not have a crutch to stay alive or not, simply stating that the game is meant to enjoy and have fun, I will not cast you amongst some but you make it sound like the only way to enjoy the game is to overpower everything, and that is the problem. Everyone trying to play the "power" card means no one wins.

I was not taking you for a ****, and still don't. I also do not fully disagree with anything, just saying it is possible to play the game and enjoy it, sure sometimes you might have to switch characters, or templates, or tactics, but you don't always have to be in rock form on a mystic casting cleansing wind for hours on end to play the game. And for future reference, try not to take to many liberties and make assumptions with out asking, just saying that's the only part that made you sound bad at all.

You did note sate my curiosity on what you are getting at with the tactics mage issue, I mean picking up a weapon skill AND tactics is the counter for mage weapon? But you cant fit just wrestling? I understand how tactics mages work, I have been playing a mage for a good....what is it 14 years? I just don't understand how the two problems you presented were related in terms of not being possible.

Point taken, I am looking at it from the power card point of view, but I don't seem to enjoy getting my face plowed everytime I go into a fight because I would rather play a wrestle scribe instead of a mystic. I also have a problem with how easy it is for people to learn mysticism, I suppose I am being greedy, but it seems to me that it's a dumbed down set of spells that allows anyone to be good at it. I also don't like how the counter to mysticism is mysticism. That part bothers me more then anything. ( don't say anything about ward removal tali's I know what they do but practically you can't use them in a fight, espeically when you are counting on your talismen for something important.)

Dexxers are inferior to mages due to fields... not much else I can say about that. A dexxer can run but he will get stuck eventually and then he dies.

The tactics mage is the power card point. A tactics mage is doable for sure, but it has little bite. You could use wrestle or what ever, but I used to love not knowing what the guy in front of me was. I guess my fun was in the randomness of it. But yah you're right you can play a tactics mage but it won't be a beast, and I wish it could be.

I enjoyed fights more when you had no idea what you were going to run into. These days I see the same handful of templates at every fight. The fights used to always differ, now it seems they are all the same. I totally 100% agree with the fun factor and that is why I am not playing UO right now, I was hoping for something nice to happen with the new patch, I am still not sure how it will work out but it's not looking good for me. Some people don't change well I guess. I'm sure there is a free shard somewhere that has a patch in that I enjoyed and mayb that is my best bet. For me SA killed UO, but like I said I don't change well.

Mayb I will try out a template I enjoy more and die a lot, mayb up my game a bit, but I honestly doubt I will. There are a lot of other games out there, and with the batch of new ones coming out soon I doubt UO will be on my list for much longer.

As for my stuff...it's already spoken for so don't ask!

 

[aarons6]

Im with this guy, all you whiny blighters! UO is unique for choosing what template you want to play with whatever skills you want, it does seem to me that these changes are solely attacking the sampire, but thats just my opinion

most of these changes are solely attacking sampires and sampires dont even pvp.

the double cost of LS will hurt very much.. a slayer double axe with 55% mana leech will not keep up with constant LS if it has double mana, even with 40lmc. this change only affects LS against tough monsters and wont have any affect at all during pvp.

on top of that, now CS wont work as much, so your damage will be lower, thus leeching less mana and hit points.. while most will just tune weapons to monsters weakness, CS will still have some use as the spread of resists vary.. again only hurts against tough monsters and has no affect on pvp.

EOO not a big deal.. i never used it anyway.. with 100DI + Slayer + Honor perfection you are at or close to 300% without it. again, who uses EOO during pvp fights?

DF, kinda not a big deal.. i only really ever used it in a pinch when i was running away with low hp and about to die.. the -20 dci will get you killed.. who uses this with pvp???


apples.. i use more apples on my sampire then i do while pvping.
to make this change fair curses and debuffs also need a reapply timer.. even if its half of the apple timer. i often end up an eating apple and then instantly getting recursed or debuffed. again, pvp? when my target eats an apple i just hit them with a recurse and debuff knowing now they have to wait to eat another one again..

 

[Thav12]

My Wife has a necro mage with 120 wrestling, just tossing that out there. I also have both a mystic and a necro with no med, another worthy mention. My most used character is a scribe mage, but you did say 95% of people can't do that. If it is player skill that is missing, then perhaps practice is the best remedy, if figuring out a tactical way to use a character that does not have a mage weapon then again practice.

A little bit of confusion on my part is this, you say a tactics mage is not viable, I assume because you need tactics in the template for it to work? I don't understand how removing the need for tactics really is any different than just tossing wrestling on your character, same amount of skill points are needed and you will still be "missing" one of those 6 skills you just said you had to have, so what am I missing?

Where I play no med is not an option. I assume you run around with 8-10 people making a no med toon doable. Or you run faction and have the beefed up pieces or armor. I run non faction, solo or with 2 people max..I run 40 med on a gimp and I get by but it's not enough to hold a grinder.

Are you beating rock form/protection mystics on a pure scribe mage? I would love to watch that 1 v 1. Unless the guy is a scrub you are not winning...besides when is it ever 1 v 1? Are you beating rock form/pro mystics on a wrestle necro mage? Once again I would love to watch. The only counter to mystic is mystic therefor you must play mystic to compete.

As for a tactics mage, the need for at least 90 tactics makes it very hard to create a mage that uses a weapon and has power. Not talking about the suit here, which has always been hard, but the skills. 120mage/120eval/120resist/120weapon/90 tactics leaves 150 points for med and what else? I personally can't run 50 med (which is actually 40), and throw scribe on. Assuming I could once again, how are you beating the mystics? Can 150 points give you 120 mystic 120 focus? Can 150 points give you 100 necro/120 ss? No you get 1 other skill and alittle med or you get 120 tactics and 120 med. Test that out against a mystic mage and see how yah do. You could drop resist spells I guess, but once again try that against spell plauge spammers and see how yah do.

I don't wanna be a ****, but you sound like a guy who rolls around with a big crew and ganks, where it doesn't really matter what char you play because you have so much damage synching on one target that hes gonna die no matter what.

I have played mages for a long time, I've learned from good mages and I kill a lot of people with mages. But mysticism is so easy and it's forced onto you that it has made pvp boring. Necro's got old but it took awhile and a pure could compete against them. Mystic your just screwed against unless you are mystic.

I mayb wrong, I am often, but I doubt that you are tearing up your shard solo on a wrestle scribe mage.

you are not wrong, and i agree with this post, and all previous posts of yours in this thread. just saying.... hope someone, like Messana, is reading this and going like "ehm... good points, good points indeed."

 

[Thav12]

Point taken, I am looking at it from the power card point of view, but I don't seem to enjoy getting my face plowed everytime I go into a fight because I would rather play a wrestle scribe instead of a mystic. I also have a problem with how easy it is for people to learn mysticism, I suppose I am being greedy, but it seems to me that it's a dumbed down set of spells that allows anyone to be good at it. I also don't like how the counter to mysticism is mysticism. That part bothers me more then anything. ( don't say anything about ward removal tali's I know what they do but practically you can't use them in a fight, espeically when you are counting on your talismen for something important.)

Dexxers are inferior to mages due to fields... not much else I can say about that. A dexxer can run but he will get stuck eventually and then he dies.

The tactics mage is the power card point. A tactics mage is doable for sure, but it has little bite. You could use wrestle or what ever, but I used to love not knowing what the guy in front of me was. I guess my fun was in the randomness of it. But yah you're right you can play a tactics mage but it won't be a beast, and I wish it could be.

I enjoyed fights more when you had no idea what you were going to run into. These days I see the same handful of templates at every fight. The fights used to always differ, now it seems they are all the same. I totally 100% agree with the fun factor and that is why I am not playing UO right now, I was hoping for something nice to happen with the new patch, I am still not sure how it will work out but it's not looking good for me. Some people don't change well I guess. I'm sure there is a free shard somewhere that has a patch in that I enjoyed and mayb that is my best bet. For me SA killed UO, but like I said I don't change well.

Mayb I will try out a template I enjoy more and die a lot, mayb up my game a bit, but I honestly doubt I will. There are a lot of other games out there, and with the batch of new ones coming out soon I doubt UO will be on my list for much longer.

As for my stuff...it's already spoken for so don't ask!

whatever. dude. you are as hooked to this game as anyone i know... the level of detail in your post speaks volumes... see you back soon!

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I think these posts tend to get off track and people start arguing when probably none of it is going to matter when there are more changes down the line.

I think the Devs and Messana are trying to do the best they can for the game and from what I read, it looked pretty good. They even quoted, "It might need tweaking." So, I'm sure they already agree to some point.

I can understand chivalry needing karma because it comes from good deeds and honesty or a purity that comes through them, not controlled by them and the level of karma would be the power or the focus of the individual.

Necromancy on the other hand, being Evil is a falasy or false. Now, you might say you've read a book or seen a movie, well I would tell you, forget what you know. I'll define it for you, here and now. First we have to ask ourselves where does evil come from? Does anyone know? Evil comes from the Devil. What is the Devil? The Devil is pure Evil. Who created the Devil? Don't be surprised, God did.

You see God was busy doing good things and he had a bunch of great angels all around him but one of them got jealous and thought to itself, I could be more powerful. Well God being all knowing, banned him from the kingdom of heaven and that's the Devil. This is why good always beats evil.

Here's how it happened. There was a very powerful mage. He was one of the greatest studies in his school. He could see the future, change time, form matter and twist reality but there was one thing that he couldn't do. You see, his son died and as he layed on the table, there was nothing he could do to bring him back.

Then he realized, he could open a portal into the realm of death and as he reached in and pulled his son's soul back, he realized that a portion of his soul had been lost. That the process of death could not be stopped. This caused the body to become animated but trapped his son's soul in the state that was neither dead or alive.

This was the beginning of necromancy. The wizzard was not evil and neither was his son but the form of necromancy is considered evil because of our understanding of death, we fear it. So, not all necromancers are evil but all paladins must be pure.

 

[grig_since98]

You're thinking far too hard about it. If the abilities require low karma or lower karma, then by UO definition, it is evil. If the abilities require high karma or raise karma, then they by definition are good.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Point taken, I am looking at it from the power card point of view, but I don't seem to enjoy getting my face plowed everytime I go into a fight because I would rather play a wrestle scribe instead of a mystic. I also have a problem with how easy it is for people to learn mysticism, I suppose I am being greedy, but it seems to me that it's a dumbed down set of spells that allows anyone to be good at it. I also don't like how the counter to mysticism is mysticism. That part bothers me more then anything. ( don't say anything about ward removal tali's I know what they do but practically you can't use them in a fight, espeically when you are counting on your talismen for something important.)

Dexxers are inferior to mages due to fields... not much else I can say about that. A dexxer can run but he will get stuck eventually and then he dies.

The tactics mage is the power card point. A tactics mage is doable for sure, but it has little bite. You could use wrestle or what ever, but I used to love not knowing what the guy in front of me was. I guess my fun was in the randomness of it. But yah you're right you can play a tactics mage but it won't be a beast, and I wish it could be.

I enjoyed fights more when you had no idea what you were going to run into. These days I see the same handful of templates at every fight. The fights used to always differ, now it seems they are all the same. I totally 100% agree with the fun factor and that is why I am not playing UO right now, I was hoping for something nice to happen with the new patch, I am still not sure how it will work out but it's not looking good for me. Some people don't change well I guess. I'm sure there is a free shard somewhere that has a patch in that I enjoyed and mayb that is my best bet. For me SA killed UO, but like I said I don't change well.

Mayb I will try out a template I enjoy more and die a lot, mayb up my game a bit, but I honestly doubt I will. There are a lot of other games out there, and with the batch of new ones coming out soon I doubt UO will be on my list for much longer.

As for my stuff...it's already spoken for so don't ask!

Don't worry, I understand I as just trying to point out that most of the flaws is that for anyone to enjoy the game anymore they have to be the victor, I mean look at half of the PvP chat in game or on here, almost all of it is just excuses or caps lock kiddies trying to boast. I Think come combinations of spells/skills should do something to limit the abilities of players (this is not a one sided idea either, I think both PvP and PvM need this type of requirement, but then I only think PvM should be done if they actually create AI....whole nother topic, moving on.)

For example, in the focus thread there is the idea of scrolls to remove rock form or protection, there are also ideas about having it as a hitspell on weapons, these are the kinds of things we need.

Again, I am not saying I enjoy losing or anything, but I do try to just enjoy the game. Occasionally I will get frustrated, but it is bound to happen even if there was no Mystic skill set. But I also do not have to always win, I mean really like I said I roll with 2 MAYBE 3 people, more than half the time it is on Atl so winning is not much of an option 9 out of 10 times.

I think these posts tend to get off track and people start arguing when probably none of it is going to matter when there are more changes down the line.

I think the Devs and Messana are trying to do the best they can for the game and from what I read, it looked pretty good. They even quoted, "It might need tweaking." So, I'm sure they already agree to some point.

I agree with what you are saying. I also feel that this is only the first set of a group of ideas that they have for balancing Combat, and as such perhaps the other sets will offer something that helps to address the complaints presented with the current ones. But as we all know, to much negativity tends to stop the Developers in their track since they feel their are wasting their time.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

That's what the question was. We were talking about change and in definition a good character can have necromancy.

Like, the way things are now. An example: 120 Necromancy, 120 Spirit Speak, Kill a daemon and what happens? You gain in karma. You lose a small amount for using the skill but gain a large amount for your deed. Would it not be good to kill a daemon?

Now, let's take the Paladin. A Paladin kills a dog and he loses karma or he steals, he loses karma, he murders an innocent and loses karma. When he casts the spell alone, he does not gain in karma. It's his action that matters.

You notice the Necromancer, simply needs to cast to have a negative karma reaction but if it's cause in using it is greater than the loss, then he is still gaining karma.

Now, I might be thinking about this way to hard but that's how it is and if we're talking about changing it, then we should have a good understanding on why it works the way it does because that is a good way of understanding on how other things may work out in the future.

I mean don't you think, we're going to look at this again and again until someone decides it's not just about karma but it's about the personality of the character themself, such as role playing and the way the game reacts or treats a particular skill.

 

[ATLPvPer]

So, you completely agree with ever poisoning and healing buff (dexxer related) but you disagree with every Mage buff and think they need lessened?

AND you want a range disarm, which would basically ruin this game? Are you serious?

Please don't make these threads if you are completely biased. Of course the biased will follow along with you.

 

[red sky]

Mage weapons need a nerf stick hard. No other class gets such a massive gimp stick to play with.

At first I thought most of these changes were fine but the more I think about them the more it confirms that the dev team does not play the game.

How about we leave the mage weps alone and just make it to where mages can actually cast a spell with specials prepped? I can tell you now that if they allowed specials to be used while casting a spell then there would be many more mages using a weapon skill instead of mage weps.

All that will happen if they nerf mage weps is that all mages will pick up anatomy or wrestling and then you will be really complaining because you cannot even disarm those characters.

Take that dexer noob. :gun:

 

[red sky]

We have asked for many years for some of these.

Who is we? Yeah, I'm being negative but it's a bit assumptive to think that everyone wants some of these changes. And yeah, I saw the some which means I'm part of the we that you listed.


Skill Focus: 40% is way over the top, as testing has shown. 20% would be good. 10% more for Inscribe. May even consider adding an additional 5% for reg use instead of 100% LRC suits.

Hmm, at first I was really going to down this but if they make scribe effective for all casting spells instead of just mystic and magery then I might float with this. And I like the 5% reg thing. That sounds kool. Assuming the item SDI cap is 20% and the hard cap is 35%. This means you can only get 20% with items but having scribe and using only regs gives an extra 15%.

Mysticsm: Re-enable purge from Ninja form, the rest of the changes you have suggested are definetly workable. Purge from Ninja form is a MUST.

Uh, so there should probably be a timer for how many times you can cast purge within a time period then right? And also, if you make this happen then ninja form shouldn't be able to be dismounted right? Otherwise, I see a lot of people running around with dismount dread mare temps and a mystic mage dismounting and then purging people over and over. Oh, and purge takes like 1 second to cast btw.

Weapon Specials: Allow for a disarm special for ranged weapons. 2nd tier for more mana cost.

LOL

3. Make stat loss 50% and last for 15 minutes. Penalties need to be handed down for dying in faction fighting and the increased stat loss keeps the dead person from ressing and continuing on (due to enhancing items and 120 skills now). This allows for a clear winner in any given battle.

Yeah, great way to support zergs.

 

[Widow Maker]

While we all appreciate your input, your reading comprehension looks to be a little below par.

Please try again?

The WE that is stipulated also looks to be pertaining to those who see the need for changes to balance out PvP. You do not seem to include yourself in that elite group.

Please feel free to post what YOU think would help PvP balance. We are all eager to read what YOU think.

 

[red sky]

Messana,

We really appreciate you trying to give PvP some need changes. But it is apparent that you may need some re-direction on some of your items. PvPers / Factions do need some changes. We have asked for many years for some of these.

It is what your players have been asking for... some of it for coming up on a decade.

While we all appreciate your input, your reading comprehension looks to be a little below par.

Please try again?

The WE that is stipulated also looks to be pertaining to those who see the need for changes to balance out PvP. You do not seem to include yourself in that elite group.

Please feel free to post what YOU think would help PvP balance. We are all eager to read what YOU think.

Ah, well I didn't think my reading comprehension or elite groups has anything to do with this thread. I have posted exactly what I think about PVP balance whenever threads pop up and I've even posted my own threads.

The main issue with the we is that it it is used as if a majority of players agree or want the exact changes that you have listed. I am more than willing to be proven wrong if you can show me that this is a list of compiled ideas from other players or that a majority of players all agree with this list. Otherwise, here is an interesting tidbit known as a fallacy. You should read about it. And please calm down, there is no need to be angry. Fallacy: Appeal to Belief

Also, I do appreciate your concern for the changes implemented in PVP. I'm just being nit-picky and like to point out stuff like that. Perhaps if you had used this it would have looked much better.

There is much appreciation for you trying to give PvP some need changes. But it is apparent that you may need some re-direction on some of your items. PvPers / Factions do need some changes. Some of these changes have been asked for many years.

It is what has been asked for... some of it for coming up on a decade.

 

[Nails]

yes, yes, yes to the faction changes. the only sucky part will be that they will have regular arties in tram but that is better than buffed artis. it will make a lot of artis worthless.. although many are already. I would like to see them become worse than the originals while in tram honestly. then I would be 100% in agreement but there is no question that factions are a mess and have been for years.

 

[Galingree]

Bad analogy. Alright, I can definitely buy Bushido and Ninjitsu. There is nothing I can see that should make the use of mysticism and spellweaving mutually exclusive, however. There are definite reasons, supported by Ultima lore, UO fiction, and general fantasy archetypes, that Chiv and Necro just shouldn't be able to be used together. It is quite obvious that the practice of necromacy would be morally repugnant to the paladin archetype.

I do not agree. When there are good gods there are bound to be evil ones. Already AD&D reflected this: The Anti-Paladin would be detrimental to the Paladin, able to use clerical spells but not for healing (i.e. "heal" would be turned to inflict damage). So why should there be no Sampire using EoO? If you want to restrict templates for reasons of fiction forbid Sampires the use of "Close wounds".

 

[grig_since98]

Bad analogy. Alright, I can definitely buy Bushido and Ninjitsu. There is nothing I can see that should make the use of mysticism and spellweaving mutually exclusive, however. There are definite reasons, supported by Ultima lore, UO fiction, and general fantasy archetypes, that Chiv and Necro just shouldn't be able to be used together. It is quite obvious that the practice of necromacy would be morally repugnant to the paladin archetype.

I do not agree. When there are good gods there are bound to be evil ones. Already AD&D reflected this: The Anti-Paladin would be detrimental to the Paladin, able to use clerical spells but not for healing (i.e. "heal" would be turned to inflict damage). So why should there be no Sampire using EoO? If you want to restrict templates for reasons of fiction forbid Sampires the use of "Close wounds".

This is going off topic of pvp, but I believe it to be relevant to UO in general.

I agree with your statement to an extent, but since you're quoting me i need to point out that that isn't exactly where Im coming from.

UO is different from what you are referring to. UO shouldn't be completely derivative from tolkien >ad&d>gold box>everquest >wow. Perhaps i was wrong to use the term fantasy archetypes, when perhaps i should have said ultima archetypes which were inspired by fantasy archetypes and other concepts.

UO never mentions any gods, because ultima reflects Richard garriot's interest in virtue ethics. The idea is that there are certain moral concepts that are virtuous, regardless of one's individual gods, government, etc. The idea that virtue is internal, nite external.

 

[Galingree]

This is going off topic of pvp, but I believe it to be relevant to UO in general.

I agree with your statement to an extent, but since you're quoting me i need to point out that that isn't exactly where Im coming from.

UO is different from what you are referring to. UO shouldn't be completely derivative from tolkien >ad&d>gold box>everquest >wow. Perhaps i was wrong to use the term fantasy archetypes, when perhaps i should have said ultima archetypes which were inspired by fantasy archetypes and other concepts.

UO never mentions any gods, because ultima reflects Richard garriot's interest in virtue ethics. The idea is that there are certain moral concepts that are virtuous, regardless of one's individual gods, government, etc. The idea that virtue is internal, nite external.

Fair point. But to forbid a combination of two skills is also going against UO principles. The unlimited freedom to combine skills into THE template you want is what makes UO UO. Being or playing a Sampire is not a question of PVP balancing, since it is a template mostly used for PVM. So I do not see the need to get rid of the Sampires.

 

[IMTHEWHITERABBIT]

Make so your:

Not able to board a boat while flagged

Not able to enter the elf city while flagged



Reduce or eliminate some or if not all guard zones in fel. Or at least get rid of the instant death that guards have.

 

[Ender]

Fair point. But to forbid a combination of two skills is also going against UO principles. The unlimited freedom to combine skills into THE template you want is what makes UO UO. Being or playing a Sampire is not a question of PVP balancing, since it is a template mostly used for PVM. So I do not see the need to get rid of the Sampires.

But it's WROOOOOOOONG!

And I want my tamer to be the only useful template in PvM!