Mesanna, please consider this (re: EM Events)

[Beleth of Atlantic]

Mesanna,

Please consider giving EM's the tools/powers to both squelch and jail players for the duration of events. As I am sure you have seen yourself during your times on Atlantic, players on this server have a tendency to act immature during events, beg for items, and complain CONSTANTLY if they do not get exactly what they want. To make matters worse, if players do not THINK they will get something they now resort to ruining the events hosted for others present.

I think EM's should be given the ability to:

First, squelch disruptive players preventing them from speaking and casting spells for a duration of one hour. This would act as a debuff and after 60 minutes it would wear off so players who are being disruptive are put at a disadvantage.

Second, if players who have been squelched continue to disrupt events through actions, I think EM's should be able to jail them. At the end of an event those jailed are released with no penalties to their account (the punitive action if missing out on the event itself/losing access to that character for the time period).

These two abilities alone would force those who attend events to at least act in a civil manner or face some consequences for being disruptive.

 

[Mapper]

Totally agree.

I can just about appreciate the asking for items, It is a game, Even I collect rares. But when they then get angry or ruin the event because they were told no is childish, And should be punished as it just ruins the experience for everyone else.

 

[Xanth de Orlig]

I concur.

 

[MalagAste]

Oh I agree one thousand times over. I've had to put so many people on ignore because of childish behavior at events I hardly know what's being said half the time. (Not that I ever expect most of them to be following what's going on)

I find more often than not these folk are lude, rude, and downright disturbing. They disrupt the event take up EM time and pretty much drive decent folk away from the events, ruining them for many folk.

But... this subject has been broached several times. I've actually seen folk doing this sort of thing in the presence of Mesanna with NO action taken. Which I find disturbing.

 

[Tazar]

I agree - except for the no penalties part... once... ok... twice... ok... but those who grief over and over and over again just to disrupt the fun of others needs some form of long-term action...

 

[Beleth of Atlantic]

Giving the EM's the ability to issue long term punishments would put too much liability on them I think.

By liability I mean, regardless taking this sort of action will have a ton of people crying on the forums, but a long term punishment would lead to even greater crying.

Remove them from events often enough, remove their chance to get items (and in turn make gold), and eventually they will learn.

Even my dog knows he doesn't get a treat if he isn't sitting.

 

[canary]

But... this subject has been broached several times. I've actually seen folk doing this sort of thing in the presence of Mesanna with NO action taken. Which I find disturbing.

Correct. Heck, they approve even giving these griefing guilds banners.

 

[claudia-fjp]

Agreed, some things people say to the EMs are very abusive as to be borderline assault and no one should have to deal with that at work. The reason they do it? They know they can get away with it.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I completely agree that the EMs need the ability to remove problem players. The Seers of old had the ability to squelch and telestorm those who disrupted their events. Why don't current EMs have these abilities?

As someone who goes to nearly all EM events on GL, I am sick of watching/listening to the children beg for items and special treatment. The St. Patrick's Day event on GL this year was the worst example of player immaturity I've ever seen. People screamed at the EMs that there wasn't an item giver at the end of the event "like other shards got," going so far as to say they would "ensure the EMs got fired." Obviously that didn't happen.

Another time, during an EM pirate event, a player decided to continuously cast fields on the ocean. This brought the event to a complete halt since the EM's boat couldn't move, and about 30 people were stuck unable to continue. The EMs warned the player, but without the ability to enforce what they said, the player continued for quite a while.

I've seen Mesanna step in and tell people to stop disrupting things, however, when the offenders continued there were no consequences. The EMs need the ability to remove disruptive players from their events and ensure they do not return for the duration (at least on that character). If a player continues to be ejected from events, then stronger actions need to be taken against the account based on harassment rules. Including banning for particularly egregious morons.

Remove them from events often enough, remove their chance to get items (and in turn make gold), and eventually they will learn.

Even my dog knows he doesn't get a treat if he isn't sitting.

Oh, I'd love to believe this... But there are some incredibly dense players in UO. These players like to ruin events because its "fun" for them to see a large group of players get mad.

Your dog can learn what gets him praise, these people revel in the negative attention.

That said, EA/Mythic has proven for over a decade now that they don't really care about griefers. They make obtuse harassment rules that unfairly burden the victim. Why are they suddenly going to care about protecting the only positive, community enhancing program they have EVER had?

 

[N49ATV]

They should be allowed to do this, however no long term actions. EMs are players just like you and I. So you cant give them that power to ban, or mark accounts. Even if they had that ability, there would be a very vauge grey area on when to use it an not. I think it would be better to make it a non-mark, no penality action.

Also fix it so we can cast spells in the councilers buildings (or whatever they are called), dexxers can attack openly, but mages cant attack back, or heal. Pain in the butt on siege, and was bad when the guards were turned off in faction towns.

*edit*

Now there needs to be a line for type of grief. PKing should not be consider grief, nor should stealing. The only thing I wouldnt wanna see on a siege event, is res killing when its not needed (ie to keep people from getting back to body to win event, is fair gaeme IMO). Also maybe spamming text overhead to disrupt the reading of texts from EMs etc.

But then again siege doesnt have an EM, so I have no worries

 

[Vlaude]

While I agree that the griping and complaining over missing out on items is ridiculous I also think it's ridiculous to silence people for doing so. EM's can choose how they want to handle themselves over complainers and they usually do so just fine (by ignoring them). Disruptive behavior can probably be prevented by better planning for events. Rather than handing out more power to the EM's perhaps they should coordinate better with GM's to handle issues that go against UO's ToS. Just as long as there's not another debacle like this, things will be fine:

(Oh God, I hope someone else besides me remembers this from Catskills in mid-2004).

 

[Lady Storm]

I agree that many events are being ruined by immature players(no mattter the irl age).

There is one thing you forgot, these players have more than one character they can run.. (including multi accounts who just might be at the same event).
They dont just prey on Atlantic, they go to multi events on other shards... some are native to that shard many are extentions from other shards there only for the events to get a gift.
I cant say I mind them returning to have fun or get a chance at a gift... many a shard wouldnt be able to have events without them due to the player base.
But the disruptive ones need some reigns on them placed.
Yes Seer's and Counselors had ways to quell unruley players, I cant see why not the EM's shouldnt be given a small boon in this respect.

10 minute silence is long enough I feel for a first time infraction of a verbal request for silence.
If one should get roudy a second time the removal from the area sounds like a good next step.
There is a Cool off area in Buc's Den that would fill the bill for a Time Out as a 3rd infraction.
These should do for most event disrupters... Mesanna should be the last resort to a flagrant player who just cant help themselves. She should have the power for a 1 or 3 day suspention.

 

[Lord Frodo]

They should be allowed to do this, however no long term actions. EMs are players just like you and I. So you cant give them that power to ban, or mark accounts. Even if they had that ability, there would be a very vauge grey area on when to use it an not. I think it would be better to make it a non-mark, no penality action.

EMs are paid employes of EA so they should be up on the rules and be able to even ban accounts just like a Dev.

 

[Goodmann]

While were at it lets give them a ban hammer so they can ban whoever they want. Maybe a few dev kits so they can spawn any uber item they feel like.

 

[Babble]

*asks em to dye mappers robe pink*

 

[Old Man of UO]

Mesanna - PLEASE refrain from using that stupid screen filling fire spell effect that crashes the Enhanced Client every time it's used. At least until the Developers get off their Classic Butts and fix it.

Thank you.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

If the EMs track the number of times a certain character is jailed and it hits a control point (EXAMPLE - 5 disrupted events), then notify GM staffing that there seems to be an issue and turn it over to CS for resolution.

If they won't deal with it an EM can always forget to release a jailed character for a day or so! <shrug> Any jailed character should have a temporary tag on them (disappears once released) - "jailed for disrupting events", so that if a GM needs to rescue the character from a forgetful EM, they at least know why that character was jailed.

 

[canary]

Another time, during an EM pirate event, a player decided to continuously cast fields on the ocean. This brought the event to a complete halt since the EM's boat couldn't move, and about 30 people were stuck unable to continue. The EMs warned the player, but without the ability to enforce what they said, the player continued for quite a while.

This and the time Mesanna came to GL for the event she passed cakes out sticks in my mind as the worst offenders. People were cutting in (what was supposed to be a) line, cursing, being utterly disrespectful to both the UO employees and other players. Nothing was done. At all. It was really, really telling of how much a person could get away with during an event.

It may be 'just a game', but some fail to remember that yes, other people are behind every single one of those avatars. I also notice that, as a rule, this mentality seems to be prevalent in certain guilds. Which is a shame that it is tolerated.

 

[Nimuaq]

I think we all want the 1st and 18th rules of the RoC to be enforced during the events and since GMs respond really slow, the best option is to give EMs the power to enforce these rules.

From RoC:

1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.
...
18) You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Origin in maintaining the Ultima Online Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

If I understand correctly what some of the previous posters suggested, these rules are broken -in the presence of Mesanna herself- and no action is taken?

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

This and the time Mesanna came to GL for the event she passed cakes out sticks in my mind as the worst offenders. People were cutting in (what was supposed to be a) line, cursing, being utterly disrespectful to both the UO employees and other players. Nothing was done. At all. It was really, really telling of how much a person could get away with during an event.

It may be 'just a game', but some fail to remember that yes, other people are behind every single one of those avatars. I also notice that, as a rule, this mentality seems to be prevalent in certain guilds. Which is a shame that it is tolerated.

Ah, yes... I had repressed the memory of that. You're right, it was awful. And yes, there are three guilds on GL to which the majority of the griefers and children belong.. Sadly, the largest of which was 'rewarded' with a banner last month.

 

[Kiminality]

EMs can't really be compared to GM.
They're contractors, who work from (presumably for the most part) home. Without direct oversight (like, from a lead GM) they shouldn't be given the power to do things that should have direct oversight (banning/jailing/squelching).
People at events are seriously annoying, but the problem won't go away if the EMs are given those abilities.
Consider the potential cries of favoritism/discrimination, the use of trial accounts to disrupt with impunity... All that stuff.

 

[canary]

EMs can't really be compared to GM.

To be bluntly honest, at least the EMs understand UO and its mechanics. Which is more than what you might say about most of the GMs.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

EMs can't really be compared to GM.
They're contractors, who work from (presumably for the most part) home. Without direct oversight (like, from a lead GM) they shouldn't be given the power to do things that should have direct oversight (banning/jailing/squelching).
People at events are seriously annoying, but the problem won't go away if the EMs are given those abilities.
Consider the potential cries of favoritism/discrimination, the use of trial accounts to disrupt with impunity... All that stuff.

The EMs have oversight from Mesanna. She's not lurking at each event, but she would certainly review any punitive actions taken by the EMs. Squelching is a rather small power to give them, yet one they should have.

While having the power to 'ban' might be a bit much, repeat offenders at events need to know they risk their accounts. A Lead GM or Mesanna could handle that, based on the player's (repeated) actions.

Doing nothing because players might scream about favortism/discrimination is a tad silly. If griefers want to claim discrimination, let them - it only makes them look more childish. Doing nothing because players can easily create new accounts isn't a viable option. Griefing needs to be curtailed.

 

[Tazar]

Giving the EM's the ability to issue long term punishments would put too much liability on them I think.

By liability I mean, regardless taking this sort of action will have a ton of people crying on the forums, but a long term punishment would lead to even greater crying.

Remove them from events often enough, remove their chance to get items (and in turn make gold), and eventually they will learn.

Even my dog knows he doesn't get a treat if he isn't sitting.

I don't think the EM's should be in charge of that... but the EM's should be able to flag accounts of repeat offenders for review by Mesanna or someone else higher up.

 

[Gilthas]

I think I would like to see some sort of power returned to EMs so that they can handle unruly players. It seems like giving them the ability to silence or remove a person with potential review of the incident by a higher power (Mesanna) and further consiquences would be the best option.

 

[Babble]

If someone ios really annyoing just a quick gate to felucca to pk the guy then?

 

[Mapper]

Thinking about this again, During the first EMs, I do remember players being 'removed' from events with a lightning bolt. I don't know if this was the EMs doing, Some EA person hidden or a GM. But people were certainly removed years ago.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

That was a telestorm. Originally a solution for lag due to 'overcrowding' on a subserver, you would be sent to a completely random location on the map - not always to a pleasent place either..

It was given to the Seers along with Squelch to help deal with griefers. The current EMs should have both powers.

 

[John Connelly]

Events, there are events?

 

[NuSair]

EMs are paid employes of EA so they should be up on the rules and be able to even ban accounts just like a Dev.

EMs are not paid employees of EA/Mythic. They are independant contractors.

 

[NuSair]

Thinking about this again, During the first EMs, I do remember players being 'removed' from events with a lightning bolt. I don't know if this was the EMs doing, Some EA person hidden or a GM. But people were certainly removed years ago.

That's called Telestorming and EMs can do it, but aren't allow to use it.

 

[MalagAste]

Canary and Martyna,

I haven't forgotten any of those events either.

My god they were horrible..... I was 5 people from the start of the line and ended up not getting up there until 24 people who weren't even in the building before I was in line went before me. I was pretty ticked.

Especially irritating was that nothing at all was done about it. I recall back years ago people who budged in line at events got sent out of town... or shoved out of the building... and told that sort of thing wouldn't be tolerated.

Not only that but some of the things said to the EM's and Mesanna were downright vulgar... and certainly a breach of the ToS... yet again NOTHING was done.

I've been to a number of events where people were saying the most horrible things to the EM's and to other players. And I don't think there has been an Event yet where a certain guild hasn't been responsible for some measure of greifing. A few times it was so bad I just said to heck with it and left. I didn't want to be any part of it.

Now I'm not a prude or anything but there is a time and place for things and an EM event where there are quite a few people and more than just your own guild is NOT the place for that sort of stuff.

I have been a supporter of the EM's getting the power to squelch for a long time. You have no idea how irritating it is for someone like me who is a very slow reader and somewhat dyslexic to attempt to read and understand what's going on when some dork is shouting constantly some vulgarity and 3 other idiots can't stop casting spells... even after being asked to stop a dozen times or more.

I also believe they should be given the ability to put someone in "time out".... especially those who are there only to disrupt the event. If they did have the ability to do something and ACTUALLY used it..... I doubt it would take long before the "children" either grew up or quit attending.

I'm actually quite shocked that something hasn't been done before. I mean it wouldn't take much to put in something and then if there is a problem with an EM using it too much they could certainly monitor the situation and review what's going on.

And don't tell me to just put more people on ignore I already have tons of folk on ignore and now I'm left wondering if any of those folk ever really add anything useful because if they did I'd never know it. I shouldn't have to put an entire guild on ignore.

And as for the largest offensive guild getting a banner I'm truly saddened by that and disturbed. While yes they certainly have a large enough guild anyone on GL's could tell you they are also the worst behaved and least deserving guild as well. And they certainly don't do anything for the community other than give a clear example of how NOT to act... Or show folk the main reason others quit UO.

But we all know that they won't do anything about any of it.... its been what 13 years now and they have yet to do anything about scammers. The only thing they do is treat the victim like crap. Victims are treated so bad in this game it's not even funny. I know that there are many other games out there that know exactly who's done what and when and if someone scammed you or hacked your account they take your stuff back and return it... as well as permanently ban the offenders IP, account and Credit Card. I often wonder how many players UO has to lose do to their lack of action before the game is shut down or they get a clue and start helping victims rather than treating them like lower lifeforms.

 

[Desert Bob]

"And as for the largest offensive guild getting a banner I'm truly saddened by that and disturbed. While yes they certainly have a large enough guild anyone on GL's could tell you they are also the worst behaved and least deserving guild as well. And they certainly don't do anything for the community other than give a clear example of how NOT to act... Or show folk the main reason others quit UO."

I agree 100% however the EMs and Mesanna could very easily not be aware of this guilds behavior. It is an outrage they were given a banner but if they went through the process required and fulfilled the needed requirments so be it. One must always remember, even if a guild has a bad reputation not everyone in the guild is bad. The sad part is the GM of that guild is a very mean spirited unstable person.

Back in the day I remember weddings being a big part of UO. As more and more weddings were crashed with bad behavior and nothing being done about it there were less and less weddings. To this day there are very few.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I've met two people from that guild on GL that I thought were decent people. One became the person spamming fields during the pirate event and quickly proved my first impression wrong. That saddened me.

The second person from that guild has acted in a nice, friendly and respectful manner the entire time I've known him. He attends EM and player events where he actually interacts in a meaningful way with the people around him. He helps people in ways I'm guessing wouldn't occur to the rest of that guild, and is community minded. He's earned the friendship of the entire GLRP community. If only his guildmates would act more like him they wouldn't be so loathed.

 

[Skrag]

EM staff also needs to power to create static spawns for town invasions, IMHO. The current program isn't nearly powerful enough.