Memorials for UO

[Gildar]

Why do people worry about what I can engrave on a tombstone, while I can engrave what I want on weapons and containers, I can lay out self-written books, I can name my vendors badly, I can even make an offending custom house design.

Why worry about tombstones? What's the difference?

Almost exactly what I was about to say.
Allowing people to engrave tombstones will certainly give people a new way to act childish and attack others... but not in a way that is any worse than what is currently available.

 

[MalagAste]

Almost exactly what I was about to say.
Allowing people to engrave tombstones will certainly give people a new way to act childish and attack others... but not in a way that is any worse than what is currently available.

I can engrave my weapon to say "Gildar Slayer"... I can put a parrot on my house has that says something completely derogatory and inflammatory about Gildar.... that the entire population of GL's can see each and every time they pass by my house..... or they can see on my paperdoll at each function I can attend..... I can tame a dozen pets and name them something inflammatory and derogatory.... and can grief you in more ways than I can count.

But putting a tombstone up at my house and labeling it "Gildars Grave" or some such non-sense would NEVER be public and never be seen unless I purposely took a screen shot and posted it somewhere.... or you would have to enter my home...... and mouse over it to know what it said.....

So I want to know just exactly HOW would this be worse than the other things I mentioned???

I think you people need to get real..... yes it "could" be missused.... but as everyone was so nice to point out... there are FAR FAR worse things I could do if I really wanted to be a D**K about it...

Which I'm not saying I ever would because if anyone knew me at all they would know that I would NEVER do something like that. I'm not that sort of person..... but yes I'm aware that there are people like that out there.... and if they want to make their own personal memorial to stupidity then why should I stop them? I seriously doubt not being able to engrave a tombstone or pedestal would stop them in their hateful behavior...

What I AM saying is there are those of us in-game who would like to erect TACTFUL memorials either to players who have left their mark on the communities or to loved ones who have touched our hearts or to those special pets we've loved and lost... And if that is SO scary and terrible for you then I'm sorry for you..... you have my deepest most sincere sympathy.... and my pity.

I'm not asking for some grave to be marked in honor of anyone at Brit Cemetery for Gods sake. That would be FAR too complicated and open the door to more abuse than it is worth.

What I'm asking for is a simple tool to be added to the game to allow me to honor my loved ones in the privacy of my own pixelated home or cemetery as the case may be.


You all are taking the most basic simple request and trying to make it far more complicated and difficult than it is.... and trying to put WAY more weight into a ridiculous argument that has already been shot down.

I know people have asked that memorials be made in game..... but we all know that doing something like that is a BAD can of worms to be opening.... if you all READ what has been suggested without getting your undies in a bunch... you'll see that we have offered a solution that while it may have faults... is no more "harmful" than anything that is already in game.

So pull your undies out of your nether regions.... go back and re-read what's been proposed... and chill already.

rolleyes

 

[Shelleybean]

About a year ago there was a player that posted in Uhall that he/she lost hundreds of specially cross pollinated plants through an unexpected event that occurred in a Luna house. This player was so upset that he/she was considering quitting the game. As players, we had an opportunity to save someone from cancelling an account and possibly making them feel a little bit better. Instead, out of about 100 responses, maybe 4 or 5 players showed any kindness whatsoever. And you know why this happened? Because players are incapable of showing kindness or compassion.

Here we are talking about a system that is specifically for honoring deceased players. We are not talking about engraving “I roxxored U noob” on a sword. Anyone who doesn’t think people will be as cruel as they can possibly be has never played UO. I already play on a shard where people tell each other to slash their wrists in real life. I don’t support this system, but I’m not on a campaign to make sure this system doesn’t happen. I have said my peace and I am done with it.

 

[Gildar]

*clip*... but not in a way that is any worse than what is currently available.

*clip*
So I want to know just exactly HOW would this be worse than the other things I mentioned???

Psst... we agree
I think you skipped over my "not".

 

[Lord Chaos]

Almost exactly what I was about to say.
Allowing people to engrave tombstones will certainly give people a new way to act childish and attack others... but not in a way that is any worse than what is currently available.

Player X's mother is dying of cancer, player Y makes a tombstone and writes "Here lies player X's mother, I did her in the rear before she died" and locks it down in a public house or vendor house.

But either way, it would be a good tool for the community as a whole and for roleplayers, it should just be reportable to the GMs of course. Its a much better idea than any public memorial, which would simply be abused to death and even worse, it would make X persons death more important than person Y, which is just not right.

 

[phantus]

Player X's mother is dying of cancer, player Y makes a tombstone and writes "Here lies player X's mother, I did her in the rear before she died" and locks it down in a public house or vendor house.

So instead of allowing full creative access to scribe whatever we want on the tombstones a set of appropriate terms could be added for players to choose as a epitaph. The only player input would be the name and dates.
Something akin to the different choices we had to the AoS clothes.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Miss Echo has recently "quit" UO. Why she is still here putting her word in a game she is "leaving permanently" is beyond me. So, just ignore her..

But I would like to see this in game... Gives people a way to remember deceased players or family members. And gives the RP community that little bit extra to work with.

 

[MissEcho]

Miss Echo has recently "quit" UO. Why she is still here putting her word in a game she is "leaving permanently" is beyond me. So, just ignore her..

But I would like to see this in game... Gives people a way to remember deceased players or family members. And gives the RP community that little bit extra to work with.

I currently have 5 fully paid up accounts. I suggest you mind your own business.

 

[MissEcho]

I think Cal needs to actually start over again because there are two totally different issues here.

For some reason, however, others, including Cal and apparently yourself, radically misinterpreted the comments and thought the intent was to create public memorials.

As Cal was the OP if you hadn't read the HoC there would be absolutely NO way possible of radically misinterpreting the comments. as his OP was entirely to do with Public Memorials and any reasonably minded person would remember back to when there were a series of deaths across a number of shards at the same time and people were asking ems and the devs if something could be done to honor these people in some way.

Remember the topic of the thread is MEMORIALS FOR UO.... Not RP Tombstone engraving tools.

Hey all,
I just wanted to let you know this is still on the radar. We're still discussing how to implement this.

We can find the area, and we can find a good method for making certain players are sincere about their intent ... the question remains:

How do we handle those from Felucca who wish to honor their friends and family?

I should not have to say this, but please be respectful of this post, and the opinions of others.

The above is totally referring to PUBLIC memorials, it could not in any way be interpreted as anything else. Noone, who has ONLY read the OP questions as posed by Cal, has misinterpreted anything. As Far as the 'intent' goes then the Question raised in the HOC Chat has a question relating to ONE issue and an answer relating to ANOTHER.

Question:

Zephenia :<Gareth> Will you let us Engrave tombstones so we can build better RP graveyards? Id love to have "Here lies my tongue please don't step on it" - On the serious side it could also help with those who wish to make memorials for lost friends.

Gareth asks a question which is basically can we have em for RP and tosses in at the end another 'use' that being helping those who want to do memorials. (probably thinking it would add weight to the 'request' for an RP tool and better his chances of getting it if it would assist in the longer term 'issue' of how to honor deceased players, can't blame him for trying).

Answer:

Uriah: Absolutely. Since joining the team, it's something that we have permanently in our minds. It's not a question of schedule, but coming up with a reverent and solid design. We've discussed everything from something like the Veteran's Memorial to something simple like Arlington Cemetary. Unfortunately, we know that there would be folks who would disgrace such a thing, so we also need to make sure it's bulletproof. If anyone has any ideas I am open to suggestions via PM.

The answer does not answer the question at all but refers ENTIRELY to public memorials and I suspect this is because the issue of public memorials was raised LONG BEFORE this engraving tool and the two issues now seem to be melded into one due to the wording of that question ie, asking for one thing and 'using' previous long term issues re player memorials to 'enhance' the request. Neither issue belongs together.

The OP of this topic is Cal, his comments are totally referring to public memorials, not of RP tombstone engravers.
The Official Dev response by Uriah in the HOC is totally referring to public memorials, not of RP tombstone engravers.

The ONLY part that refers to RP tombstones is the question.

I would suggest that the the ORIGINAL request for player memorials made a long long time before this HOC chat was what Cal refers to when he says it is 'still on the agenda' and the whole of Uriahs answer also refers to that ORIGINAL request not the question re tombstone engravers at all.

 

[Jhym]

I am sorry for your losses, but I have to disagree.

How each person deals with their grief is up to them, and some folks see UO as an extension of their life. However, I think the memorial is designed more to give people an outlet for real-life losses, not just for the character they deleted last week.

There is sadness in loss of characters as well, just not the same sadness that truly losing someone causes.

I lost a lover years ago, but as there was no UO connection, I won't be making a memorial in game. However, I may choose to memorialize my grandmother, just as an ancestor of my characters and someone I loved quite a bit.

Above all, if you think people are mocking your grief by having memorials of folks they loved in real life or just in the game, you need to talk to someone. Nobody mocks grief knowingly.

 

[Lord Gareth]

Sorry for late response my computer went Snap, Crackle and Pop....

When I asked the question in the House of Commons chat it was for engraving the tombstone loot. I was mostly going for roleplay graveyards when I brought it up. I am not against memorials for players either and think it is a wonderful idea. as for tombstones in houses being engraved I know players may argue that you cannot see it unless you load the house but here is one way to help with that. Person laid to rest is in a stone coffin which can be made out of blocksteps.

Last thing is I don't know how items are coded in game but if its possible for tombstones to show without having to load the house like Parrots do that would be cool.

(Really great to see you guys working on this.)

 

[hawkeye_pike]

About a year ago there was a player that posted in Uhall that he/she lost hundreds of specially cross pollinated plants through an unexpected event that occurred in a Luna house. This player was so upset that he/she was considering quitting the game. As players, we had an opportunity to save someone from cancelling an account and possibly making them feel a little bit better. Instead, out of about 100 responses, maybe 4 or 5 players showed any kindness whatsoever. And you know why this happened? Because players are incapable of showing kindness or compassion.

Here we are talking about a system that is specifically for honoring deceased players. We are not talking about engraving “I roxxored U noob” on a sword. Anyone who doesn’t think people will be as cruel as they can possibly be has never played UO. I already play on a shard where people tell each other to slash their wrists in real life. I don’t support this system, but I’m not on a campaign to make sure this system doesn’t happen. I have said my peace and I am done with it.

1. We have to relax a bit and remember what this game is about: Fun! So if someone cancels an account because of the loss of items, I fail to grasp what was the motivation of this person to play UO in the first place.

2. There always will be people in ANY game, no matter what you allow or disallow, who will be misbehaving, abusive, offending, vulgar. (You just have to read some of the postings on this moderated board, as an example.) As having FUN is our primary intention in UO, the first step into that direction would be to surround me with players I like, and ignore those who I dislike. Is is as easy as that!

So if we were allowed to build player memorials or tombstones, we should try to be happy about what great opportunity this would be to bring life, history and depth to UO, instead of trying to complain about all possible ways this system could be abused. If someone abuses it, ignore it. Or maybe report it and then ignore it.

 

[MalagAste]

MissEcho,

While I'm FULLY aware that Cal was discussing having a "public" memorial built.... most of us all agreed that the ability to "police" this and keep it from being abused as well as keeping it "real" without them having to sift through records and force people to send notarized copies of death certificates was well.... impossible...

And the way people can grief it and the damage they could do would be very great.

But during that mIRC chat where he talked about the Memorials.... he also said anyone who had any suggestions regarding the issue could please PM him and discuss it...

Well I did... and my suggestion was that EA continue their stance on NOT having public memorials because it would be WAY too hard to ensure that it wasn't abused...

However the idea of allowing Memorials would NOT have to die if they could allow US the PLAYERS to engrave tombstones and pedestals like the ones from the champ spawns and from the Peerless on our own... making our OWN memorials in our own homes. Solving part of the problem with much less grief... and it wouldn't take 100's of hours of DEV time to implement nor would it consume office time in "validating" any requests.

Saving time and money... while still providing some concession to those wishing to build memorials.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I currently have 5 fully paid up accounts. I suggest you mind your own business.

though did you not say you were leaving uo forever? Why would this bother you?

 

[BajaElladan]

Hail Folks,

Having read the OP and every post in this Thread, I respond as follows:

Some of those who created Ultima and/or Ultima Online may have already been taken from us in real life by Death. Should UO survive as long as I hope, more will pass away. One day Richard Garriott will pass.

I am at least one voice that would love to see a place created or modified where such contributors to Ultima and UO, devs, GM's, Seers, etc could be Honored and Memorialized. Either one place where reds and blues could go with a tightly controlled environment (no combat and ruleset where physical and verbal harassment are vigorously enforced) or one red place and one place for all non reds.

The idea of allowing Tombstones that already spawn as loot to be engravable, I also find to have merit. These could be used by Players to Honor and Memorialize anyone Players chose to, real loved ones departed or dead, or for roleplay purposes. For these verbal or physical harassment may be possible, but also may be reported as such and punished where deemed appropriate.

It is my hope that BOTH of these options are on EA's "radar screen."

Lastly, I have seen dear Players who have passed in Death, dear Players who live on yet play no longer, real life pets passed in Death and dear in game pets lost to various game mechanics and misfortune. I would love to be better able to personalize my honoring and memorializing of these folks in my UO houses.

It is my hope all of these will be considered seriously, and with proper respect and reverence.

Sadly, UO has always had and will likely always have some Players who hold nothing dear and only worthy of abuse. I hope such folks are given little, or no ability to abuse what is put in place without the possibility and likelihood of facing serious consequences for prohibited abuses.

To all who have lost loved ones, be they real, virtual, or both, you have my deepest sympathy.

Elladan of Baja

 

[Lord Gareth]

Question:

Gareth asks a question which is basically can we have em for RP and tosses in at the end another 'use' that being helping those who want to do memorials. (probably thinking it would add weight to the 'request' for an RP tool and better his chances of getting it if it would assist in the longer term 'issue' of how to honor deceased players, can't blame him for trying).

Thanks... but lets not try to speak for what I am thinking. My head is full of little people that run around like crazy with ideas. I do not think there is room for another trying to figure out what is going on inside hehehe.

When I asked the question it was for RP. Someone in the ventrilo I was in said they would like me to add for players that have passed on. So thank you for implying I used peoples deaths for an RP advantage. I feel really great about that.

My Head

 

[Stewpid]

Sadly, UO has always had and will likely always have some Players who hold nothing dear and only worthy of abuse.

Unfortunately, it isn't just UO, but all online games have players whose only goal in life is to cause grief or mental anguish towards others. Since the global chat has gone live, this type of behavior has only been magnified. Instituting something like this would just exacerbate the problem. There are jerks out in the real world, online only magnifies the problem.

 

[BajaElladan]

Hail Folks,

Though I posted once here, I had a recent new thought both related to this Thread and potentially worthy of its own Thread.

The 6th Year Veterans Rewards includes the Character Statue Maker. Could not those be used to fashion/sculpt images of loved ones to place in homes, custom house graveyards or Memorials?

One may ask, how does this help Players with accounts younger than 6 years. I would recommend that Character Statue Makers be added as items that may be purchased through the Game Stores.

This would allow everyone to obtain the Character Statue Makers and add another income stream for EA and indirectly for Ultima Online.

I invite further comments on this variant either here or in another Thread.

Lord Elladan of Baja

p.s. as part of full disclosure, this option would ALSO aid in a personal Project of mine on Baja

 

[Slickjack]

This is what we have built for our guild cemetary that everyone will have a chance to engrave a looted stone for a loved one.

 

[popps]

How do we handle those from Felucca who wish to honor their friends and family?

Well,There are 2 possibilities, as I see it.

1) - The Memorial place is set in Felucca, has an entrance area with a public Gate linked to the other public gates (the entire area should not be recallable nor Gateable and it should be mandatory to leave mounts and pets of any kinds at the entrance and not be allowed to access the memorial with them....) and the WHOLE Memorial place, entrance included, should be accessable to all (reds included) BUT has PvP precluded in it anywhere.
Also, a certain area outside the Memorial should be subject to be "Guard" zone as a "buffer zone" to avoid any player killings. Guards should intervene ONLY upon those who initiated an attack over another player, not before then. That is, reds who do not initiate any attack would be perfectly safe in the guard "buffer" zone.

I would hate to see a Memorial site be used as a place to trick players into being pkilled. Very out of taste and unappropriate, IMHO.


2) - The area is located in Trammel and has of course PvP barred but reds can access it through the public Gate into its entrance (and only in that one) and from there access the actual Memorial.

Personally, I would see more fit the location of the memorial in Felucca.

This way, it would be more seen that "safe heaven" as it should rightfully look like.
Besides, while blues can walk Felucca reds cannot walk on Trammel and so, the Memorial on Trammel would seem more unfriendly to reds than it would look to blues on Felucca.

One thing I am convinced, that the game has to have only 1 Memorial for the shard, not Memorials split over facets.

That's my opinion.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

It seems like the right thing to do to have a memorial of some kind because you never know if a good friend of yours has passed.

Some of the interesting aspects of an online game that could last 30 or 40 years allows for the passings of generations.

It seems like a necessary thing because you might play with your whole family and over many years someone may die and if it's possible to visit them in the game it's kind of like a wonderful experience.

I know that it's a very difficult topic but the truth is people die and we should not be afraid to remember who they were regardless of how we might feel when we do.

So, my idea, alot of people might disagree with but if I could make it possible I would do it, so i'm going to suggest this.

I know some people that have died that I have known in the game over the many years that I have played and i'm sure many more that I am not aware of. I think it would be good to have a system that helps us remember and become aware of the people that have passed.

Maybe a system could be implemented where you take the player of the character and have them walk into an activated stone. The character will then disappear and their name will be engraved into the stone. Their character will then appear as a ghost, a transparent image that can be recognized. This image would then, eventually, fade away but could respawn so that people could see their ghost.

A giant graveyard could be created where gates or teleporters allow the player to enter like a sub server or a map. This place could allow for all shards to inter-connect. A GM could conduct the ceremony where the stone is activated and the character is walked into the stone, placing their ghost into the data base of UO's Memories.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

if it's on private land, then it goes poof when the owner does/or sells, doesn't seem right.
If a fallen was an avid pvp'r, tram wouldn't be a fitting place - & vice versa.
I would have fallen friends in both I'd like to go and remember, & hopefully w/o being attacked by anything.
what's written about them could be amassed from a poll right here